District DUI Bill: For Legislation

"... Council's action urgently needed."

The D.C. City Council voted Tuesday to relax the District's "zero tolerance" drunken driving law, which allows drivers to be prosecuted for minimal amounts of alcohol in the bloodstream.

Read the story: D.C. Council Votes to Ease No-Tolerance DUI Law (Post, Oct. 19)

D.C. City Council member Jim Graham (D-Ward 1) was online Thursday, Oct. 20, at 3 p.m. ET to discuss his reasons for voting for the emergency legislation.

"We need to send a clear and unequivocal message that you can come to the District of Columbia, have a drink and not end up in the slammer," Graham said.

A transcript follows.

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washingtonpost.com: Council member Graham will be with us shortly. Please stand by.

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washingtonpost.com: Jim Graham is about to begin. Thank you.

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Jim Graham: Hi I am Jim Graham. Sorry for the delay.

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Columbia Heights, Washington, D.C.: Hello Councilman Graham,

Thank you for supporting this emergency legislation. As a resident of Columbia Heights, I think that the place we really need to enforce "zero tolerance" is for the gang violence, graffiti and general lawlessness in our neighborhoods. Has there been any progress on arresting those who committed the murder in Mt. Pleasant recently? What about the spate of gang graffiti in Columbia Heights?Thank you for taking our questions.

Jim Graham: Thanks. No new info on the Mt. Pleasant murder. Sorry. You are right though, the police are needed for "zero tolerance" elsewhere.

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Washington, D.C.: Why did it take seven years for the D.C. City Council to do something about this?

Jim Graham: Well, this is the first time this has come to our/my attention...

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Washington, D.C.: Now that steps have been taken to change the law, what is going to be done about the DMV? I find it abhorrent that the DMV takes a stance that even if the charges are dropped that it can still impose a punishment.

Jim Graham: It's not actually DMV. Its MPD. And I think they have gotten the message.

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Adams Morgan, Washington, D.C.: Councilman Graham:

I'm disappointed that you are supporting a bill that will further encourage drunk driving. I think you are moving in the wrong direction. D.C. should set an example for the rest of the nation and impose mandatory jail time for any amount of alcohol found in a driver's blood. A year or two in prison would dissuade most would-be drunk drivers. How can you support your stance on this issue when thousands of people continue to be killed by drunk drivers?

Jim Graham: Believe me I am not encouraging drunk driving. No way. This is putting on us a par with Md. and Va. I was very careful not to go beyond what we needed to fix this problem. Period.

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Washington, D.C.: Dear Council member Graham -- is there any word from the mayor's office on whether he'll veto this bill? If not, what's your sense on whether he will and, if so, if the council will override the veto? Thanks.

Jim Graham: We fixed the major concern of the mayor. I can't imagine him vetoing this bill.

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Washington, D.C.: Dear Council Member:

Thank you for chatting on this issue today. I wanted to ask an unrelated question, which I saw came up in the previous chat. That is, what about "zero tolerance" on other issues (i.e., drug activity, gang activity). Knowing that you will state that we do have zero tolerance in those areas, I ask for you to comment on the Redskins participation in a fundraising event for the NRA on 10/25. Those dollars raised will go directly to lobbying congress members into relaxing our gun control laws.

Jim Graham: I don't care much for the Redskins action, but hey, this is within certain limits a free country. I wish they wouldn't do it though.

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Washington, D.C.: The problem was not so much the law as it was the judgment of the police officers. Why did they choose to waste their time enforcing this provision while letting so many other more serious problems go unnoticed such as speeding and aggressive driving? How is the city council going to deal with that?

Jim Graham: Well it was really the law actually. Perhaps it combined in not such a hot way with MPD judgment. Police training is surely a part of what we need to do though.

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Logan Circle, Washington, D.C.: Mr Graham:

Why is that the D.C Council can pass a drinking bill in a day but can't seem to address a smoking ban in a year?

Jim Graham: I am ready to go. Let's go.

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Alexandria, Va.: I'm certainly in favor of revising the law to avoid ridiculous results, but what was the big hurry? Would it really have made a difference to wait a week or two and make sure the changes were complete and appropriate?

Jim Graham: Yes, I actually think it would have made a difference. We were sending such a problematic message.

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Washington, D.C.: Phil Mendelson said in his helpful chat that his problem with the emergency legislation is that it doesn't deal with the statute that the DUI arrest was made under. The news media reported that the emergency legislation makes D.C.'s law the same as Virginia's and Maryland's. I'm having trouble reconciling those two statements, and would be grateful for your clarification.

Thank you.

Jim Graham: Well C.M. Mendelson is not on line. I thought his issue was the haste in which we acted. I, on the other hand, am convinced that we fixed the problem...much to the relief of a whole lot of people...

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Arlington, Va.: On a slightly separate but related topic, along with alcohol, cigarette smoking can be considered an intoxicant. The mixing of the two may be considered within the bounds of being under the influence of another drug. What is the progress on the smoking ban for bars and restaurants in the District?

Jim Graham: We should be acting soon on smoke-free. I am sure of it.

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Washington, D.C.: A bartender told me that wine has more alcohol levels than beers. Will this affect by the bill?

Jim Graham: I am not sure actually. I would have to check that.

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Baltimore, Md.: What is the real reason, do you think, for metropolitan police officers to use a standard below 0.03 blood alcohol levels to arrest people? Are they using this as a way to hold drivers for some other reason (suspicion of some other crime, etc.)? And do you have any statistics on who (demographics) is mostly being affected by this law?

Jim Graham: I don't have the demographics. I do know that some 100 people were arrested in a recent year period with very low BAC. That coupled with the recent widely publicized cases had created a real problem in terms of perception as well as reality.

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Anonymous: Phil Mendelson did not commit to any new legislation that clarifies the .08, .05 distinction. Is the District going to make .08 the standard for DUI or not. Leaving that .05 -.07 window open to officer discretion is effectively creating a new standard at .05. That is simply too low, and who could blame people for avoiding the District in that circumstance?

Jim Graham: That is what we have done. C.M. Schwartz is holding a hearing I think next week on the permanent bill.

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Bethesda, Md.: Two points to those who ask "why the rush?"

First, every weekend between now and enactment will cost DC business a lot of money. Second, why do we need to deliberate on having the same law nearly every other state has? It's not as if we're doing anything untested here.

Jim Graham: I agree.

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Washington, D.C.: I am extremely concerned about the lack of oversight regarding the officer's actions in this. It seems very obvious that this woman was imprisoned and humiliated for having an attitude that the cop didn't like, and that the DUI charge was the most convenient way to make this happen.

It seems equally obvious that Chief Ramsey has absolutely no interest in curtailing his officer's abuses of power.

What civilian oversight is there of the D.C. police?

Jim Graham: The oversight is much better, I am sure, than it used to be. I think Ramsey wanted maximum discretion in the officer. However, here there was too much of it.

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Philadelphia, Pa.: It seems like from the Post's stories on the District's DUI policies that the law enforcement (including the Mayor) and the D.C. council are not of the same mind on this matter. The D.C. Council does not want to lose restaurant goers because of the recent press on questionable DUIs and the police does not want "space" in the DUI laws. Do you think the council's new vote will result in political disaster?

Jim Graham: No, I don't think so. We just needed to fix a problem and we did as soon as we could. People have got to feel comfortable going to a D.C. bar and having a drink. It's just that simple.

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Washington, D.C.: Is there still a distinction between DUI and DWI in D.C. if this proposed law goes into effect? (I believe in Virginia and Maryland they are treated as the same offense.)

Jim Graham: Synonymous. I think

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Washington, D.C.: I believe you are incorrect. DMV suspends a person's drivers license BEFORE any court appearance and due process. It is known as an administrative license suspension. It is also a practice that should be stopped.

Jim Graham: I am not sure what preceded this.

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Washington, D.C.: Council Member Graham --

On an unrelated matter, I want to thank you for your support of tenants of McLean Gardens Village in the condo conversion of the complex.

It means a lot to us.

Jim Graham: Thanks. I am with you!

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Bethesda, Md.: The figures being peddled by the Mayor and some members of the D.C. Council that fewer than 100 people were arrested under .08 contradict information published in the Post, which indicated more in the range of 300-400.

I was one arrested at .05. I was in the tank with a schoolteacher arrested at .04. I participated in the diversion program with numerous participants arrested at levels between .03 and .07. None of us were under the influence of illegal drugs. I resent those statements, which are inaccurate and uninformed.

Based on information in the articles and my observations in the diversion program, I estimate that as many as one in six drunken driving arrests made in the District are of people under .08.

The police felt like they had the authority to arrest anyone if they admitted to having a drink.

Jim Graham: I am sorry this has happened to you. I think it is about 100 who have had very low BAC.

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Anonymous: I'm sorry, but the new bill does not clarify the distinction between .08 and .05. It leaves the area between .05 - .07 up to an officer's discretion. All it did was make anything below .05 legal. Would you please address this point.

Jim Graham: Yes, you are right. But I think that is what the other jurisdictions do as well.

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Washington, D.C:. Last November, a man driving 90 mph ran a red light at Irving Street and Park Place, NW, killing one of your constituents -- John C. Johnson, Jr., of Mt. Pleasant. The driver (who pled guilty to manslaughter this week) had a Blood Alcohol Concentration of .065 - not enough to qualify for a DWI (.08) but within the new impairment "neutral zone" that the Council legislation creates. Do you really believe that someone with a BAC of .065 should be considered "neutrally" by the police?

Jim Graham: No in that case, other factors might indicate impaired driving. The police have that authority under the new law.

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Alexandria, Va.: If the law states that you are intoxicated at .08 or above, then isn't that what officers should enforce?

Please explain the purpose of the gray area between .05 - .079?

Jim Graham: Well, I think that is to be found in Md. and Va. law if I am not mistaken.

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Columbia Heights, Washington, D.C.: I second the first posting:I think that the place we REALLY need to enforce "zero tolerance" is for the gang violence, graffiti and general lawlessness in our neighborhoods.

Why has there been no progress on arresting the person(s) who committed the murder in Mt. Pleasant recently? Thank you for taking our questions

We need to stop worrying/passing legislation that affects a few and DO MORE for a majority of folks that live here.

Jim Graham: I agree. There may have been progress, but typically and for good reason the detectives don't share it. It was a horrible thing.

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Georgetown, Washington, D.C.: The traffic cameras are bringing in more fines for the city (which I'm sure must please you) but some studies have shown that they are also leading to MORE accidents. Yet I read recently that the city wants to install yet more cameras. If it is proven that they cause more traffic accidents, will you voice you opposition?

Also, when was the last time you personally had to go through the DMV or a ticket adjudication and how efficient a job do you think those folks are doing ...?

Jim Graham: I have not been through a traffic ticket adjudication for sometime. For perhaps obvious reasons, I simply pay my tickets. I do get them.

In terms of cameras, you are right: they must produce something more than revenue to be sanctioned. A recent Post story has raised some very serious questions in that regard.

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Jim Graham: Well, I guess this topic has been exhausted at least for present purposes. I think the Council has done the right thing. There are hearings now scheduled on the fine points. We can make whatever additional modifications are necessary on Nov 1, the date of our next session. In the meantime, a new message has been sent that there are not going to be arrests such as what have occurred. Now, if you are intoxicated and you are driving, that is a different matter. But for nearly everyone, a glass or two is not going to be a problem.

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