Study Shows Little Gain From 'No Child'

Washington Post staff writer Lois Romano discussed her story on the "No Child Left Behind" Act and a new study that shows little improvement in students' scores since its implementation.

Read more: Students Show Few Gains Since 'No Child'

The transcript follows.

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Lois Romano: Good Morning everyone. Just a note about myself: I have been at the Post for 20 years and only recently started covering education. I have covered politics, however, for years. I will do my best to answer your questions.

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Reston, Va.: Dear Ms. Romano -- Given the studies that show less than expected improvements in student's test scores under NCLB, I'm interested in your thoughts on the future of NCLB? Specifically, I am wondering if states may forgo their federal education funding due their their inability to meet NCLB improvement standards. Also, if states do forgo federal education funding, any thoughts on how they would handle students that opted to transfer to "better performing" schools under NCLB?

Thanks

Lois Romano: I think its way too early to draw conclusions. Many states are unhappy with the requirement- in fact Connecticut sued the government over it. But I doubt states are ready to give up federal funding. If scores continue to stay static, it more likely that the administration will revisit the workability of the law.

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Silver Spring, Md.: I think parents and schools should make children read out loud. You'll learn a lot when you see how much some kids struggle. I've seen high school students struggle and it's just sad. Cut back on TV and Play station and make them read something.

Lois Romano: Reading out loud is an excellent way to learn to read--but also helps with writing. I still read out loud before I send a story to editors. Children should be taught to do that starting early.

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Shreveport, La.: Has there been any research about a possible connection between high-stakes testing and increasing dropout rates since NCLB? Louisiana's dropout rate is mushrooming, and I suspect "accountability" is the reason. People used to quote research that indicated retention in grade led to dropouts, but there is little discussion of this issue these days.

Lois Romano: I have not seen any such research. There is certainly a drop-out rate tied to a lack of reading skills. The idea of NCLB, of course, is to keep kids in schools and not socially promote if they are not ready.

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Washington, D.C.: I understand that participation in the Nation's Report Card is voluntary and that no data are reported back to individual schools or students. What incentive, then, do students have to take the test or try their hardest? Might that explain why the latest scores aren't as improved as the Education Department might have wanted?

Lois Romano: Yes, that is a possibility. The students are told what the test is and they are told it doesn't count.

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St. Louis, Mo.: It was my understanding that the "No Child Left Behind" campaign was under-funded and doomed to fail from the start. It was simply a publicity ploy for reelection based upon supporting-education-in-name-only.

Lois Romano: No Child Left Behind isn't exactly underfunded. The problem is that states are forced to use federal funds to prepare for the test. States complain that it costs more than they are allocated to prepare. They also don't like being told what to do with the funds.

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Crystal City, Va.: Good morning. Does the "NO Child Left Behind Act" deal with kids in Charter schools? Can you break it down for me so that I may understand it. Thanks

Lois Romano: No Child Left Behind requires all schools to test-public, charter, private. I know there is no mechanism to force private schools test because they don't receive federal funds. So almost none test. I'm not sure if charters are complying. It would seem to be they have to because they are relying on public funds.

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La Plata, Md.: Are we moving toward a national curriculum? States (students) should all use the same test--like NAEP tests--to measure student progress. Wouldn't that level the playing field? With each state submitting their own tests, aren't we just sidestepping??? Most nationally recognized organizations have published national standards--why do states feel the need to reinvent the wheel?

Lois Romano: One of the issues with NCLB is that schools are uneven nationally. The administration's position I believe is that schools must take it upon themselves to improve based on the testing. You make a good point on the national curriculum

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Washington, D.C.: Is NCLB an unfunded mandate? What details can you share about the lawsuit in Connecticut?

Lois Romano: It is funded but states do not think they have enough money to implement is. Connecticut sued the Department of Education making just that point..

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Hayward, Calif.: How do you see the requirement for a "qualified" teacher in all classrooms, effective next school year, affecting these results in the future? Will there be any significant change?

Lois Romano: I think the more interesting question is how the government can mandate getting "qualified" teachers in the classroom.

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Alexandria, Va.: In today's Virginia section, the FCPS answers a question - sort of - from the head of a local teachers' union. The question uses statistics that show minorities in the FCPS are lagging behind those in the rest of the state. The NCLB is why those statistics are available, as it does not permit blending scores by ethnicity. For too long jurisdictions such as Fairfax County hid their under-performance for minorities behind the achievements of those students they did serve; the white college-parent's kids. And now they no longer can do that. To me, this alone makes the NCLB worthwhile. Do you think the information about minorities would be available otherwise, or would areas have continued to hide behind overall averages?

Lois Romano: Many standardized tests break out the scores so that you can see how the white and affluent kinds are doing. I think NCLB does further force an accountability on this issue by publishing the "achievement gap" between whites and minorities.

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Landover, Md.: My comment is if the child cannot do the work from the previous grade why would you push them ahead to another grade to continue to behind. Changing the rules are going to make the kids do better, It is going let them think that no matter what they do, you will still put them in the next grade. I think if you go back to the way it used to done in the 70's, 80's, and 90's where when a child failed at least to subjects they had to repeat the same grade all over again and that would encourage them to do better in school because it would let them know that an education is not easy to get and learning is very important and leads to a better life.

Lois Romano: Yes, and that is one of the integral arguments for NCLB.

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Maryland: How would you divide up the blame for the test results between the teachers, administrators, parents and students?

Lois Romano: I think there is enough blame to go around. Teachers can just do so much if parents aren't involved every step of the way. Its sort of like medical care- you depend on a professional but you must be very involved in the process.

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Washington, D.C.: Is it possible that we're pushing more advanced topics on kids too early? It seems like less time is spent learning basic arithmetic and algebra just so students can be taught calculus in 8th grade. Somewhat like resume padding.

Lois Romano: There is definitely some of that happening around the country. I have seen it at times with my own children. They are taught to write creatively- but not drilled on the basics of grammar.

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Atlanta, Ga.: Will the achievement ever be truly non-existent? With every ethnic group improving and the economic status of families and schools, how will all students be even in terms of scores?

Lois Romano: Hard to say. It's certainly narrowed in the past 20 years.

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Wheaton, Md.: Is the No Child Left Behind program just throwing money at a problem to solve it?

Lois Romano: The Bush administration doesn't think so. The premise is to force schools to teach basics.

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Fairfax, Va.: Do you think that the schools have the right technology in place to educate students in an effective and efficient manner as well as measure performance levels?

Lois Romano: Yes, I think many do today. Those schools that can't afford it, can apply for grants. Bill Gates' foundation has donated tens of millions in computers

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Winthrop, Mass.: Have any studies been done that compares test scores in a manner that adjusts for cost of living. If a school in rural Ind pays $8000/child and a school in NYC pays $11,000/child the school in Ind is far better funded than the one in NYC. There are many other factors involved like class size, educational background of the parents, education levels of the teachers etc. First you need a National test, and then you have to adjust for a host of factors before any comparison is anything but an intentional deception.

Lois Romano: The only factors I know of that are considered are race and whether kids are on subsidized lunch which would account for income.

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Maryland: I think all students should learn a foreign language, preferably a Romance language. It really does help you learn English grammar.

Lois Romano: I agree. Many were required to learn Latin years ago.

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Philadelphia, Pa.: Should we change our emphasis from "no child left behind" to "advance no child until they are ready"? Why don't schools allow students to work at their own rate at different subjects, allowing them to pass to higher levels when successfully completing their current level, yet allowing students to be at appropriate levels for each subject rather than one grade level for all subjects. Then much of the inequities between boredom with subjects they've mastered while struggling with difficult subjects they are falling behind would be conquered.

Lois Romano: Private schools have the luxury of being able to let kids go at their own pace. Unfortunately, it's harder for publics schools on tight budgets.

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Winthrop, Mass.: Why isn't there a single National Test, instead of individual state tests? States are changing (lowering) their tests to improve scores, and a solid passing grade in Miss, wouldn't indicate that a student had a chance to pass in Mass, or Conn, or Ind. In the future competition for every job that provides a living wage will at least be national, if not international, its clearly time for a single standard for the test isn't it? Without a common standard its impossible for parents to see if their state schools are really serving their children.

Lois Romano: well, the Naep test as well as others-such as the Iowa tests-offer a national standard. You can see how your kids are stacking up nationally.

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Washington, D.C.: Has anyone every considered the issue of NCLB in the context of other societal problems? I read once (in Sagan's "Demon-Haunted World) a quote noting that learning cannot happen until a child is safe and secure, loved, well-fed, and healthy.

In a country where a large percentage of children are living in poverty, where many families must decide between paying the gas bill, buying insulin for a sick child, and eating three meals a day, where children must worry about daddy making good on his threat to blow mommy's head off for burning dinner, where inner-city children can't walk down the street without being hassled by drug dealers, where poor children have never been to the cultural institutions two miles away, where college-educated parents are among the long-term unemployed, can we really expect kids to succeed on a standardized test?

Lois Romano: You make a very good point. I know studies have been done on this. It's why many federal programs now offer meals.

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Lois Romano: Thank you all very much for your great and thoughtful questions. I must sign off now to work on a story.

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