
Thursday, December 15, 2005; 1:00 PM
Michelle Singletary hosted authors Jeff Taylor and Doug Hardy for a discussion about this month's Color of Money Book Club selection -- "Monster Careers: Interviewing: Master the Moment That Gets You the Job" (Penguin, $15.00).
In a recent column , Michelle wrote that there's no doubt even the most seasoned interviewee can learn something from this book.
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A transcript follows.
Read Michelle's past Color of Money columns .
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Michelle Singletary: Hey folks. Lots of questions so let's get started.
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Olney, MD: I need your advice, Jeff and Doug. In early October, I interviewed for a position that I feel I am very qualified. I had two followup interviews, one in late October, the other one in November. After each of the interviews, I sent a hand written followup note expressing my appreciation and enjoyment during the interviews. But I have not heard anything since the last interview. Is no news good news? How should I follow up on this? I may have another job offer soon, but would prefer this position. Any thoughts?
Jeff Taylor: Good job on your followup, which is your first chance to keep the job open. During the holidays, your urgency might go up, but companies might wait until after the new year. With all that said, I'm not loving the momentum, so it's good to hear you have other irons in the fire. If you do get that other offer, you can return to the first company and tell them you're hearing from someone else and you want to let them know you're still very interested in them. Double down on your interest and you might get the process kicked back into life.
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WDC: My funniest/saddest/most outrageous interview story: I work at the Library of Congress. Some years ago an applicant told me she "didn't like books." We didn't hire her.
Jeff Taylor: Wonderful story! Thanks.
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Washington, DC: I'm shy by nature, and I always have trouble breaking the ice at the beginning of an interview. Any suggestions?
Jeff Taylor: If you're shy, don't try to change yourself -- if you project an outgoing persona in the interview you'll have to maintain it at work...that's exhausting. The best way to overcome shyness in an interview is with preparation, which gives you confidence. There's a difference between being shy and appearing meek. You can be "shy yet confident in your abilities" and still get the job.
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Rockville MD: I once interviewed with a prestigious law firm and was hired because of my qualifications and because I wore a very plain tailored suit (woman, mid 20's). The wife of the senior partner told me that they were impressed by my subtle outfit and that I did not wear red, the color so many women feel suggests power. That was a real turn off for the three partners (all in their mid 40's)and that aggressive female stance was not appreciated by those that interviewed. Just a quick note - love these chats!
Jeff Taylor: Good for you. The minimum standard for interview dress is to be a little better dressed than the person interviewing you. For someone, a bold tie with a conservative suit (Doug puts on this look) shows your ability to be strong. Presidents and congress members dress this way. Another way to look at this: the outfit you put on for dinner shows a little extra care. That's the way to treat an interview.
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Washington, D.C.: Love the columns and chats. Often when people ask you a question such as "should I save or should I pay down debt?" you tell them to do both. I have three things I would like to do when I get a promotion in January to a more comfortable salary (1) begin saving for retirement, (2) put extra towards my private student loans that have a variable interest rate beyond the set payment plan (20-year amortizing and cannot be consolidated), and (3) purchase my apartment which is going through a tenant-driven conversion. I am 27, single, and have the 3-6 month savings cushion and enough for the apartment down payment saved already. How do I prioritize extra money from my raise, particularly towards goals 1 and 2? Thanks for any advice.
Michelle Singletary: Wow. You've got a lot going on -- but all good.
To determine how to use your raise to answer questions 1 and 2 you need to know (or your best guess) at how much you will need at retirement. So calculate. You might be on track now with what you are already investing, which then means you can use the extra money to pay down that student loan debt. There are a number of retirement calculators but try the one at www.choosetosave.org.
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Anchorage, Alaska: When, if ever, should a potential employee tell the interviewer that she is pregnant? They will find out sooner or later...
Doug Hardy: The employee does not have to say she is pregnant - or reply to the question. The employer is entitled to ask if there are any physical restrictions that would prevent you from performing the job.
Jeff Taylor: I like to lead with my story, and how can you not lead with a story about having a family, especially if it's obvious, and then go with the punches. You're taking the question an employer might be secretly thinking and turning it into a positive, for example: "I already have two children; I can't stay out for more than four weeks...I'm a worker."
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Michelle Singletary: Just a note folks. Doug Hardy is also joining us today. He co-wrote Monster Careers with Jeff.
Also, I'm happy to take other non-interview questions especially since this is my last chat for 2005 :(
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Pasadena, Calif.: Love the newsletter, column and chats, Michelle!
I'm in favor of stealthy regifting if - as your column says - you're still choosing as thoughtful as gift for the recipient as if you bought it with cash. For one, I've gotten gift cards for stores where I'd never shop, and have passed those along to people who'd actually use them.
I say "stealthy" because my in-laws are the worst regifters I know. One Xmas I gave my father-in-law a Pendleton scarf. Two years later he and his wife sent it to me as a gift: in the same box. And don't get me started about the probably-used (no tags on it) Victoria's Secret satin hot pants and top: that one was wrong on so many levels ...
Michelle Singletary: Ok so funny on so many levels. I love the gift card re-gifting. I've done that. I hardly EVER, EVER shop and so even if I get a gift card from a store I might go to I don't go often so they just sit in my drawer. I got a note from a reader that said re-gifting is "dishonest." What do you guys think? Is it?
You know where I stand. Last time I checked you didn't have to give a resume for a gift. Didn't have to "spend a lot of time or money." You give. You give something you think the person will like. End of gift-giving story. Right?
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Lorton, VA: I was in an interview which employed a very structured process. (they referred to GE or Jack Welsh as the source of this process) I'm 53 years old yet they started asking about my accomplishments in High School. I wanted to display my talents, most of which had been developed since then. Is there any magic for breaking out of the interviewers process so that you can tell them exactly what you want to get across to them?
Doug Hardy: Chapter 1 of Monster Careers Interviews opens with exactly this situation, and we describe how a person steps out of the process with answers that go beyond the question.,
Jeff Taylor: My average air time on CNN is 2-1/2 minutes, and I have four points I want to get across. Within reason, no matter what somebody asks, I'm going to guide the answer toward my strengths or to the information I feel is most important to share. Of course, you have to decide what those four points are -- the "Key Messages" I described in the first book, Monster Careers.
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Bethesda, MD: I quit my last full-time permanent job in the spring. Currently I am doing odd jobs to make ends meet, and considering going to graduate school. If I decide not to attend graduate school and re-enter the job market, how do I explain such a 8 or 12 month long 'gap' from the "real world"? I haven't taken time off to raise kids or care for a sick family member, I've done it only for myself - to try to figure out what I want out of my life and career. To me this seems like a perfectly reasonable reason, but I'm sure many potential employers and interviewers won't see it that way.
Jeff Taylor: It feels to me like you haven't resolved why you took the time off, so I would suggest that you raise the bar a little: set a goal to decide whether you're going to graduate school by January 1, and if the answer's yes, double down in your odd job efforts so you can continue those while you're going to school and your problem is solved. If the answer to grad school is no, I'd suggest you get your s*** together ;-), because you're headed toward exactly what you're anxious about!
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Alexandria, VA: Not about the book, but about today's column. I love regifting! As long as it's something that you might buy for the recipient, there is nothing wrong with it. Last year I was over a friend of my mother's on Christmas Eve and she was going through stuff that she had already gotten, making piles out of the stuff she didn't want. She proceeded to give me some lovely Christmas towels, an apron and potholders. I was thrilled to get them!
Michelle Singletary: Exactly. Now some would say that's not technically "re-gifting" because she didn't wrap the old gifts up and give them to you without mentioning they had been given to her. But hey I say either way is a way to save money and the environment!
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Florida: My boyfriend just interviewed with Microsoft and did it differently. He dressed in shirt and tie (not a suit) and when I offered to help him with questions, he told me the IT world was different and Microsoft interview questions were different than others. Are there different norms for different fields?
Jeff Taylor: I described six different styles of interviewers. We've heard of Microsoft's use of puzzles as an interview tool, for example. Specific to your question, technology generally has taken on more casual dress style almost to the point where it would be out of style to be in a suit. In New York City, on the other hand, it's full-on suit for men and women; here in Boston it's more coat and tie.
I also heard your boyfriend say he didn't want to practice with you...tell him to practice with the dog, practice in front of the mirror -- but practice (his future salary affects you too!)
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Boston: Hi Michelle,
I love your chats and learn a lot from them. Is there any news on on the tv show you're supposed to start hosting?
thanks.
Michelle Singletary: First thank you so very much. I really try to make personal finance fun and well, personal.
And so glad you asked about the televison show. For those not in the know I'm going to be hosting my first show on the new cable network, TV One. It's a great network. My program is a half hour personal finance show in which I visit people's homes and help them resolve various money issues. It has a reality TV feel without all the nonsense.
No firm air date but it will be on in Jan. So please look for it. Go to www.tvoneonline.com for more details on "Singletary Says."
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Washington, DC: Do you have any strategies for not saying too much in an interview? I feel like I often just keep going when I shouldn't - I mean I am a very open person and tend to talk when there are silences and it's hard to shut off.
Jeff Taylor: Follow the simple rule I've taught my kids: You have two ears and one mouth. Use them accordingly.
Or try to give your answer in one breath, which will keep your sound bites to 30-40 seconds on a good day. Practice this way and it will help your focus and brevity.
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Upper Marlboro, MD: If one decides to pay off a large credit card debt (approx. $9,000), is it wise to contact the creditor and ask for a pay off amount? How will this affect your credit score if they grant the request to pay a lower amount than the actual owed?
Michelle Singletary: If you don't have the money to pay off the full $9,000 then call and ask for a lower pay off amount. If you're already late and accuring late charges, penalities and such -- ask.
But if you're current then I would try to negotiation a payment plan that would pay off the full amount. Especially if know you can pay it off even over a long time.
Because yes if you pay less than the agreed upon amount it will hurt your credit score.
But more importantly, didn't you make this debt? Did you get something for this debt? You should do everything in your power to pay creditors what you owe them. I don't know anything about your situation but if you're not ill and you are working full-time and there is no compelling reason that you can't pay this debt -- even it if takes you 10 years -- then you are morally obligated to pay the full amount you owe.
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Anchorage, AK: More on the pregnancy question... Suppose the employer never asks. Is this something I should discuss or let it come as a surprise 1 - 3 months after I begin working.
Jeff Taylor: See answer above.
Michelle Singletary: The employer might not like it but I say adopt the don't tell policy, especially since it's against the law for them to ask unless your being pregnant affects your job.
But think long and hard because it could generate ill will if in several months you have to leave a position they just filled.
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Issaquah, Washington: How do I satisfactorily explain why I accepted an early retirement offer in 2001 and am now looking for work again? I needed to spend more time with my daughter and husband for personal reasons and also wanted to do some travel and go back to school. I had dropped out of college many years before. You may think this is an adequate explanation. Many people dream of taking a sabbatical, but the truth is you are looked at suspiciously by employers if you do.
Jeff Taylor: Did you in fact go back to school? Did you in fact travel? A lot of anxiety comes from missed opportunities to follow through with the goals of a sabbatical. If it did these things, a sabbatical is not only fun for you; it's great for interview content. Craft some stories from your sabbatical that can light up an interview and show your skills.
By the way, I did that -- I went back to school when I was 40, and it's created some great stories for me.
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Washington DC: When interviewing for a promotion position, how can I anticipate questions that may be asked so that I can prepare?
Jeff Taylor: Expectations are higher - your ability to be prepared is highly expected. It's less about your personality and more about what you've done at the company -- so prepare stories specifically about your achievements there. You might use the Problem-Action-Result format: "Here was the problem...this is the action I took...this was the result."
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Arlington, Va.: Why do interviewers still ask the "What are your strengths/weaknesses?" and "Where do you see yourself in five years?" It's hard for me to keep a straight face when I hear them, and makes me disinclined to pursue the position.
Jeff Taylor: You can't control how unprepared your interviewer is. I think all you can do in that case is light up the answer. I'd even say, "I love this question!" and have a really great answer prepared. Better to have a question you've prepared for than a bizarre question no one's heard before.
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Rockville, MD: Is Behavioral Interviewing still in vogue? What are some other styles or techniques that have lately arisen? (I'm returning to the workforce after 11 years FT Mom)
Jeff Taylor: Yes, behavior-based interviewing is growing in use. There are other styles getting popular -- puzzle interviews, case study interviews, and new formats like online interviews (similar to what we're doing here). We've described more than ten of these styles, and how to prepare for them, in Monster Careers: Interviewing. I suspect that, since you ask about the style, you're already pretty good at interviewing!
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Vienna, VA: Hi Michelle,
This isn't really regifting. But what do you think of the practice of keeping some generic, wrapped gifts on hand to give to people who unexpectedly brought you gifts? Personally, I hate the idea. I just say "thank you." I might say "I haven't finished my shopping yet, ha ha" if I really do intend to get the person a gift. I hate the arms race though of giving more and more gifts to people. Thanks for your thoughts.
Michelle Singletary: You are absolutely right. And many of absolutely do just what you mention-- out of guilt.
Gift giving shouldn't be a tit for tat. If you get a gift and didnt' expect one, say thank you. Write a nice thank you note. And leave it at that. Don't add the person to you gift list next year UNLESS you really want to.
Some people just like giving and really don't expect anything back.
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Bethesda, MD: I am in my 40's and after six years away from the area I am back to pursue my original career path which I have been away from for the entire six years. I am always asked why I left; it was due to a transfer by my husband and no opportunity in the new area to pursue my chosen career. I worked in other support areas and have lost many jobs I feel because I have been out of the loop. I work in education - librarian specifically. How would you suggest I go about getting my point across that I am still viable and up to date?
Jeff Taylor: Any time you have to answer an objection that the interviewer might define as a blank (time away with no work) I think you have to present it upfront -- a candid story. Your skills as a librarian, if they're up to date, can be described in detail, and your experience/age is a plus when you point out the judgment you've gained.
Michelle Singletary: You might also bring to the interview any evidence that you've keep your skills up to date, such as course grades or information about workshops you've taken etc. Show them that you aren't a dinosaur!
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Charlotte, NC: Thanks in advance for taking this question. I was recently called by an individual in HR responsible for executive hiring for a position his company advertised. I was caught off guard with the call. I was told I was their top candidate. His first question was what were my salary expectations, because if they were too high, it wasn't worth speaking any further. I was taken aback, because at my level/the level they are looking at, there is an assumption that the salary would be competitive and within a certain range. I have always been counseled in the past not to discuss money or expectations in that regard until there has been a general conversation about the position, the responsibilities and my qualifications. I responded that I didn't feel comfortable discussing my salary expectations until I had a clearer understanding of the responsibilities. He then responded by throwing out a number -- it was appropriate -- but at the very top of the expected range. When someone throws out a number like that, I would feel like an idiot to respond by saying, no, I would take less. Therefore, I said that "Yes, it was more or less in the range I would consider" (even though in fact that it was about $30K more than I was expecting). He promptly said that that was way beyond what they expected to pay (and that other candidates responded similarly) and that he would check back with the department head that was hiring to see if he would consider modifying it upward. And then the call was over!!! It was disconcerting. How should I have handled this to avoid the door being slammed so quickly? I didn't even get to hear about the position to judge appropriately . . . it was very disconcerting. Thanks.
Jeff Taylor: The fact that they took that tack might reflect how th company handles other situations -- maybe not a great company to go with. Another lesson here -- if he admits that the figure was $30K higher, and your answer is "Yes, that's comfortably in my range." and he doubles back on you, you've fallen into a trap you were trying to avoid.
Doug Hardy: You might immediately direct the conversation back to the job responsibities that you mentioned. "That would be comfortably in my range for the right job...but we haven't discussed the job yet." But if you're part of an internal game about budgeting, you'll have a hard time winning (because they're not saying it's a game).
Michelle Singletary: Always, always follow your gut and be truthful. That usually keeps you out of trouble. If you felt uncomfortable say so and ask for more time. I agree with Doug and Jeff that if the person calling doesn't understand or tries to push you than perhaps this isn't the company you want to work for anyway.
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Frederick, MD: How much does physical appearance count in an interview? Everything else being equal, won't the more attractive one get the job?
Doug Hardy: The famously ugly British prime minister Disraeli said "The handsomest man in England has a 10-minute head start on me." Sure, there's an advantage, but everything else is not equal -- your preparation, confidence, and provable, measurable, relevant experience can overcome someone else's physical attributes.
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Cleveland, Ohio: What tips do you have for Human Resources professional interviewing?
Doug Hardy: I think you can take the "colleagues talking to colleagues" tack with HR. If you're up on trends in HR, have good questions showing your expertise, for example, ask how they're handling rising benefits costs.
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VA: To Jeff, physical restrictions that would prevent you from performing the job.
This question is illegal under the ADA. See www.disability.gov and www.eeoc.gov. See disability on the left column.
Doug Hardy: You're right on the language; and we defer to the ADA experts for which wording would be allowable. Chapter 10 of the book covers illegal questions and more to the point of the original question, inappropriate questions.
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Alexandria, VA: Even though this doesn't have to do with today's discussion, I am hoping you will consider responding to this question.
I haven't always made the most financially prudent decisions. As a result, I am facing a significant debt situation. In the last couple of years, however, I have trained myself to be more financially responsible. It helped because I was laid off and was out of work for two years. In that time, I did temp and consulting work but it was just enough to cover rent, bills, very basic living expenses. I now have a full-time job and a part-time one. I am now in a position to take direct action to resolve my debt situation.
Initially, my plan of action was to focus on one high interest credit card and pay that as quickly as possible while paying a little above the minimum on the other card. Then, transfer a balance so that I could eliminate one card. Once I had both cards paid off, one would be eliminated and I was going to drop the limit on the other card significantly.
However, I do have an existing 401K that has a balance of about $40K. I know any disbursement would have a 10% tax implication. But I am wondering, considering the interest rate on the cards, if the tax penalty on withdrawing $7500 would not be a better solution. This would pay off one of my cards.
I am currently enrolled my current employer's 401K plan and am putting in 12% of my salary. I don't want to get too much of a distribution because I feel it's important for me to make monthly payments to remind myself not to do this again (in case I fall back on bad habits). But I also want to handle the debt as quickly and efficiently as possible.
Thank you.
Michelle Singletary: First, don't touch the 401(k) money. You don't just get hit with a 10 percent penalty. You have to pay taxes on the withdrawal as well, which would reduce the amount by another 20 to 35 percent depending on your tax bracket. Instead you may want to reduce how much you are putting in your retirement fund and use that money to help pay down your debts. But don't reduce it so much that you lose any employer match you may be getting. Then when you've paid down your debt go back to putting in that 12 percent.
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Bethel Park, PA: Jeff & Doug: I am having a problem getting a new job. This is going to sound awful, but I left the last three jobs on my resume on bad terms. Two of them, I left because I could not get along with a coworker and one I actually was terminated for being "a disruptive influence in the work environment." I am in the graphics/printing field. I know I made quite a mess of my job history, but how do I handle this. Previous employers have always said I was a hard worker and very dedicated. I am just not a people person. I get lots of interviews...just not the job. What do I say when an employer goes through my resume and asks "Why did you leave that position?"
Jeff Taylor: A couple of suggestions:
Seems like we need to explore the root of the problem. Have you thought about some coaching/counseling to try to work through what's become a "quality of life issue" e.g. getting along with other people. I think you should do this no matter what, because getting to the source will not only make you a better employee but also give you a good dialogue to go along with the discussion in interviews. It's not ideal but at some level it's your reality.
Second, have you explored starting your own business, or at a minimum becoming a contractor where you're hired because of a skill you'll deliver where working side-by-side may not be required to succeed in the job.
Michelle Singletary: I always wonder what people really mean when they say they aren't a "people person." If you're decent, fair and kind person you should be able to work along side anybody. Even sky people can keep a job. I think Jeff is right explore what's really going on.
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Boston, MA: In May I graduated from Boston College. My career center brought firms to campus to interview with, one of which was Goldman Sachs. Prior to the interview I had to designate three, of five, divisions I may be interested in working at. At the interview, they asked me why I was interested in one of the divisions that I had not indicated on the pre-interview questionaire. Instead of correcting the interviewer, I tried to answer the question. Needless to say, I evidenced the fact that I knew nothing about that division. In the middle of the interview, the interviewer actually whipped out his blackberry and started sending emails. At this point I stopped speaking, but he told me to continue. How should I manage these "stress" interviews in the future?
Jeff Taylor: Generally business today is busier; creating almost a required environment of multitasking and maybe a more directed line of questioning to get to the goal quickly -- the person's on campus and likely to see 15 people in a day, which is almost not human. If you understand the pressures, you may find your patience level a little more accepting of what might be perceived in another environment to be rude behavior. In today's business world, maybe for the first time in history, your body actually buzzes when somebody's trying to speak to you. As a Blackberry user, I think it's both awesome and irrational at the same time. For me and all the other Blackberry addicts, we apologize in advance ;-).
Michelle Singletary: Can I take another tack here. Always be honest. Truth is usually on your side. So bascially you lied. It would have been better to say, "I'm sorry I hand't indicated I wanted to work in that division." Maybe he was asking as a test .. to see if you would try to fake it.
And as far as the blackberry thing. HATE THAT PRACTICE. It's rude. If he has to answer the darn thing at least ask you if it's okay if he took a second to answer an "important" mail. By goodness why has being rude the rule of the day in the business world?
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Tampa, Florida: I have a creditor from 1999 who has "re historied" the debt from then on my credit report, stating is is a new debt as of July 2005. It is PEPCO. Is this legal? I paid it, they say I didn't, and around and around we go till I thought it should have dropped of but now it looks like new debt. What can I do? Thanks!
Michelle Singletary: If it really is an old debt than it's not legal. Contact the FTC. Also on the Website is a standard form to challenge such a thing. You could also call the company and tell them you plan to sue for reporting false information on your credit report, especially if you have proof you paid.
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20036: I know this is off-topic, but I wanted to remind all your readers that Christmas gifts don't just have to come from the mall (or online). Last year I decided I didn't want to spend lots of money buying presents, so instead I went into my kitchen and came out with some home-baked gifts. They went over so well that in the last few weeks, my family and friends have all been asking me whether I will be making another batch of my now-famous caramelized pecans, because they want more this year! The answer of course is yes -- because I will not only be saving money, but they'll be getting something other than a store-bought iPod, furby, or whatever is trendy today (but won't be tomorrow): the TLC that comes with making a present using one's own two hands.
So thanks for all your good advice throughout the year -- and Happy Holidays to all!
washingtonpost.com: Today's Column: Re-Gift, Respect, Recycle
Michelle Singletary: Thank you so much. And you are so right!
Wish I knew how to bake well.
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Chicago, IL: I was a asked by a consultant doing the preliminary screening for a leadership position with a Catholic organization what religion I was practicing. The consultant had similar questions about my wife and children. I shared the information, but was told that the sponsors of the organization were looking for a practicing Catholic. The consultant was highly complimentary of my experience and background except for this. I didn't get an offer. Any suggestions on how to handle this type of questioning without being offensive,?
Jeff Taylor: Without getting stuck in the legal implications here, or stuck in the details of one interview for you or anyone who's with us today...The key to a successful job search and over time, a series of jobs turning into a successful career; has a lot to do with your ability to find the right job at the right time. Any time you're exploring the awkward moments of an interview process my best advice is to keep moving toward the job that's a great fit, as opposed to getting hung up on the positions where you get stuck. Emotionally, the time you spend trying to over-analyze these kinds of interviews where you're probably not a fit, whether you decide or they decide, is time not spent moving forward or creating momentum toward getting the perfect job.
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Michelle Singletary: Oh my didn't realize the time when by so fast. Great chat. I'm so sorry if we didn't get to your question. Perhaps I can get Jeff and Doug to answer more and I'll print the answers in my column.
Well, sadly this is the last chat for 2005. But I'll be right back at it in the New Year. It's been a good year and I'm praying next year will be too.
I hope you all have a happy holiday, whatever you celebrate.
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