CIA Renditions

Washington Post staff writer Craig Whitlock was online Tuesday, Dec. 6, at 11 a.m. ET to discuss his story about CIA "renditions" in Italy and the ensuing charges against 22 CIA operatives.

CIA Ruse Is Said to Have Damaged Probe in Milan , ( Post, Dec. 6 )

Audio: The Post's Whitlock.

The transcript follows.

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Craig Whitlock: Greetings everyone from Berlin. Thanks very much for all your questions. Let's get started.

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Woodhull, N.Y.: You say in your article that U.S. intelligence officials deny that Nasr's abduction was a favor to the Egyptian government. However, is it not possible that such denials are made with the intent to preserve the "close relationship" between the CIA and the Egyptian security apparatus...and to hide the fact that Nasr really was abducted as a favor to the Egyptians? Why else would the CIA want to muck up an investigation already in full gear by the Italians? Would the CIA really give the local Milan station chief enough leeway to conduct such an operation on his own? So much of what happened makes so little sense unless it is seen as a U.S. favor to the Egyptians. So, do you really consider your sources that have said this is not the case to be reliable?

Craig Whitlock: Excellent questions. You're right: U.S. intelligence officials firmly deny that the Milan rendition was done as a favor to the Egyptians. Yet there's plenty of circumstantial evidence to the contrary, which is why we published it so the readers can make up their own minds. Certainly, Italian officials are left wondering why the CIA would grab a suspect who was under close surveillance and was clearly destined to be tried in the Italian courts.

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Louisville, Ky.: 'After meeting with U.S. Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales in Washington in early November, Castelli questioned whether the prosecution was politically motivated, calling the lead prosecutor a leftist "militant" whose work needed to be reviewed carefully'.

Did you talk with AG Gonzalez to ask what kind of pressure he applied?

What do you know about Armando Spataro's reputation?

Do you think Spataro will be able to overcome the heavy political pressure being applied by the U.S. and the Italian government?

Is this against U.S. law? If so, why are we not prosecuting?

Thanks. Keep up the good work.

Craig Whitlock: Hi Louisville, thanks for the questions. The Justice Department has declined to answer any questions about the meeting between Gonzales and Castelli. As for Spataro's reputation, I've read several hundred pages of court documents that his office has generated in the case and have not seen a single reference to anyone's political views. He's a career prosecutor who has gone after the Mafia as well as terrorist suspects and corrupt politicians. Italian prosecutors and judges do have a reputation for being quite independent.

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Olive Branch, Miss.: How do the facts of U.S. "renditions" square with Secretary Rice's declarations that the U.S. does not send captured terrorist suspects to countries (especially noted for torture) "for the purpose of torture?"

It sounds as if she thinks the torture is ok as long as we don't specifically order or oversee it! It's not as if we don't know what will happen to these detainees once they are handed over to countries like Egypt!

Why has the truth become so subjective with this administration? Americans simply want the truth and we are growing impatient with the patronizing attitude of this president and his appointees.

We are not unruly children to be managed and sent out of the room when the adults talk.I am invested in the interests of this nation as is every other American and I am ready for some serious truth-telling by this administration!

Thanks.

Craig Whitlock: Thanks for your comment. There's been plenty of criticism from human-rights groups, newspaper columnists and others that the U.S. government is not being forthright when it states that it does not "knowingly" render captured terrorist suspects to countries where they are likely to be tortured, such as Egypt and Syria, and yet the State Department regularly criticizes these countries for precisely those kinds of human-rights failings.

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Bend, Ore.: Two basic questions. (1) What's the overall number of people sent thru the CIA renditions program since 9/11 worldwide? Are we talking dozens here (ie. 12-72 individuals), or thousands (ie. 3000+) ? And (2) How effective really is the data they get from the people they "rendition" to other countries? I mean do you come across real, hard, verifiable information (that checks out) that indeed a particular rendition is worth all the PR hit it's costing? Or are you getting a "trust us but it's classified" sort of answer ?

Thanks to you and all your colleagues at The Post for the reporting on this important subject!

Craig Whitlock: Hello, terrific questions, to which we don't have any hard or fast answers. CIA and other U.S. government officials have testified on occasion before Congress about the rendition program but provided few details about numbers; estimates are that many scores of people have been rendered since 9/11, but not thousands. There's a big debate over how reliable interrogation results are in rendition cases, but of course we have no first-hand knowledge of this since the results are kept classified. One exception: the U.S. government did provide "summaries" of its interrogations of al Qaeda suspect Ramzi Binalshibh to the German government for a court case in Hamburg. There were lots of inconsistencies, to say the least, but also much interesting detail

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Rome, Italy: I think this particular case should be seen as only one of the repeating episodes where American agencies act on foreign land like if the U.S. had some degree of authority almost everywhere. As this is an abuse of power, it should be not tolerated by the international community, and especially by the European countries. This is a time, in a way, where new standards for procedures and expectations for actions by the U.S. in the international community is being forged. European countries should then lead the effort in making clear that the United States is not free of obligations to the international community. The current allegations over the secrets CIA flights in Europe is just but another of these episodes. As an example, it is necessary a very firm response from the European Union to the "tough" position (based on what?) that Ms. Rice is expected to have on this matter. The European Union hasn't yet properly responded to the September 2002 release of the document outlining the U.S. international strategy by the Bush administration, a document written again by Ms. Rice, a document that seems to support a stance of global control by the U.S., which is clearly not acceptable and the very opposite of "freedom" a concept that the Bush administration seems to be in love with. The slow response of the European countries to this and other episodes is a very worrying sign. European citizens must start thinking globally and must politically act not at their country's level, but at the European level. As an Italian citizen, I want a full investigation to be completed on this particular case. If Italian, European, or international law has been violated, those responsible must be "brought to justice", to use another Bush's phrase.

Craig Whitlock: Hello Rome, thanks for your comments. The Italian criminal investigation into the kidnapping of Abu Omar in Milan is certainly one of the most aggressive official inquiries into a rendition since 9/11 and it is resulting in many interesting disclosures. I think it would be very misleading, however, to suggest that the CIA has been running or flying all over Europe without the knowledge of the local governments. Clearly, European intelligence and counterterrorism agencies have cooperated very closely with the U.S. in this regard. The CIA says it never carries out a rendition without the permission of its local counterpart agency.

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Houston, Tex.: I am disappointed in The Post's lack of good judgment at this time. Reporting, editorializing, whatever about snatch and grab operations of suspected terrorists is wrong, right now. There is still a war raging against terrorism raging around the globe, and you need to justify to me and the American people why you think releasing stories such as about "renditions" is important right now.

Craig Whitlock: I'm sorry you think our stories demonstrate a lack of good judgment. I can assure you that we consider them extremely carefully, especially when dealing with matters of national security. On the other hand, these rendition cases are simply important news and we'd be neglecting our responsibilities as journalists if we looked the other way. In Italy, anti-terrorism prosecutors and police said this rendition screwed up an ongoing terrorism investigation. That's significant and shouldn't be ignored.

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Boston, Mass.: Why is it with all the money that these agencies get they can't get it right. They have a lot of money being given to them. The taxpayer is allowed better. When you ask question of them, they seem as if they are being bothered. I pay a lot of money in taxes and the government is responsible for getting done right. We have the right as citizens to have them accountable. Maybe as a journalist is it possible to let the public who is accountable. So another 9/11 doesn't happen again. Thanks.

Craig Whitlock: While I'm sure that intelligence agencies and U.S. counterterrorism officials are faced with enormously difficult decisions, day in and day out, I agree that the government should be held accountable for its actions and its tactics. in addition to journalists and the general public, the 9/11 Commission has been very active in demanding answers of the government and making recommendations for improving its readiness so as to prevent future terrorist attacks.

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Toronto, Ontario, Canada: Ms. Rice gave a speech yesterday that emphatically denied U.S. involvement in torture related to its renditions of individuals either directly by the U.S. or by countries such as Egypt or Syria where these individuals are often sent.

First, she gave no indication of what she meant by "torture" - as we know, the Bush administration has loosened up that definition in its new rules/guidelines on interrogation. Secondly, and this is more of a question for the press, there was no mention of the case of Mahar Arar - a Canadian citizen who, while in the New York airport en route back to Canada from vacation in Tunisia, was abducted and secretly sent to Syria - where he was tortured. Upon his release, Canada has launched a judicial inquiry into his case. Finally, as the Arar case illustrates, the justification that extraordinary rendition works in the so-called "war on terror" begs the question of what about those innocent who are picked up, sent away to be incarcerated and/or tortured. They have no access to lawyers, due process or a proper hearing. The ends do not justify the means....and...do not the means employed by the U.S. simply make it as guilty of terrorism as those it is pursuing.

Craig Whitlock: Interestingly, Secretary Rice today in Berlin acknowledged that the the U.S. has made mistakes in the "war on terror," referring indirectly to rendition cases. She wouldn't talk about any specific cases, such as the Arar episode. But as you mention, there are judicial inquiries being conducted now into rendition cases by several countries that are close U.S. allies, including Canada, Italy and Germany.

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New Orleans, La.: Why did The Washington Post run this story in the first place? In my view these types of operations are getting people who have made it their mission in life to kill U.S. citizens off the streets. The world is not fair or just and no one plays by the same rules we do so why do we continue to act as if the CIA should as well?

Craig Whitlock: Thanks for your comments, and question. you're right: many of the rendition targets are certainly not very nice people. But they haven't been charged or tried in a court of law, either, so who is to judge or be held accountable for their treatment? Secretary of State Rice acknowledged today that there have been "mistakes" in the war on terror and that the U.S. owed it to its allies to be forthright about that. Again, I think The Post would be neglecting its journalistic duties if we ignored such cases or didn't try to find out more.

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Philadelphia, Pa.: The more I read of the monstrous activities perpetrated by the Bush administration under the guise of fighting terrorism, I can't help but wonder what it will take for the decent people in the U.S. to shake off the political rhetoric of the White house and demand that the crimes this government has committed be punished. I would be interested in an assessment of how and how seriously the disclosure of such activity will hurt the esteem with which this nation has long been held by the rest of the world. Also, what it may take to regain the esteem we have lost. My own assessment is that nothing less than sweeping the government clean, both on Capitol Hill and the White House will suffice.

Craig Whitlock: Thanks for your comment. I'm going to steer clear of a political discussion, but certainly many European diplomats and regular people have been critical of some U.S. counterterrorism tactics and say they have hurt American's reputation.

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Washington, D.C.: Good morning. Thank you for the article. I cannot figure out how this article can be front and center, with a link to a Rice article denying any U.S. wrongdoing with respect to torture, etc. Why can't she be called out for lying? What will it take to get the CIA and this administration in check?

Craig Whitlock: Thanks for your comment. Our editors put these articles front and center so people can make up their own minds about such an important issue.

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Toronto, Canada -- obviously not the only fan of the old Mission Impossible TV show: As I read your story I was struck, again, by the shocking amateurishness with which US security officials have conducted the "war on terror". I was also struck again by the thought that the root of some of the amateurishness lay with senior policy makers deciding to emulate old spy movies and spy TV shows. You quoted a former spook who said: "The price of doing business is if you get caught, you're on your own." In Mr. Phelps's weekly briefing the self-destructing tape used to say, "in the event of your capture the Secretary will disavow all knowledge of your actions."

By trying to copy the successes of Jim Phelps U.S. security officials ended up looking more like Maxwell Smart, agent 86.

The main difference is that neither Phelps or Smart ran up $100,000 hotel bills.

Craig Whitlock: I confess I'm a little young to have been an old Mission Impossible TV fan. but I did write an article back in July about how the alleged CIA operatives stayed in 5-star hotels and spent more than $130,000 in the case, according to Italian court documents, but clearly failed to cover their tracks.

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Manchester, U.K.: Hi, Merry Christmas. Would you say it is ever acceptable to kill one innocent man, against his will, in order to save thousands of other lives?

This is exactly what torture and the deaths resulting from torture actually do.

Would your answer be different if the victim of such brutal interrogations was, say your family member?

Craig Whitlock: Hi Manchester, Merry Christmas to you, too, though I can't say your questions are full of holiday cheer. I'm a news reporter, not a pundit or philosopher, so I think I'll stay away from hypothetical questions and stick to the facts of our coverage.

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Vienna, Va.: Hi Craig,

I'm a little confused about the statements made by Condi Rice yesterday before she left for European tour. She said we do not do Rendition to countries which torture. Today's Post article about this Egyptian with Italian citizenship picked up by CIA and sent to Egypt suggests otherwise.

Secondly, there's been reports from Human rights organizations in Europe that pointed to couple of Eastern European nations hosting those black sites, both of which denied doing so. Do you think these organizations got it wrong?

Craig Whitlock: Hello. I can understand your confusion. many human-rights groups have been very critical of Rice and other Bush administration officials for saying that the U.S. does not transfer terrorism suspects to countries that torture, when there is considerable evidence to the contrary.

As for the secret prison sites, frankly I don't know who is telling the truth- I personally don't know where they were. but I can see why the host countries aren't eager to admit it.

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Washington, D.C.: Judging from the commentary I read some blogs, there are a good many Europeans who don't believe or don't care if U.S. tactics have saved lives, they may even welcome more terrorist attacks on Americans. They are outraged and want to send U.S. ambassadors home and kick U.S. forces off European soil. How widespread is this view? Is cooperation on counterterrorism in danger? Is NATO on the verge of breakup?

Craig Whitlock: I don't spend much time reading blogs, but I haven't come across anyone in Europe who would welcome more terrorist attacks on Americans, or anyone else for that matter. There is a lot of heavy criticism of U.S. tactics in the war on terrorism, but that's different. NATO is not on the verge of breakup over this.

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Somerville, Mass.: Thank you for taking our questions. I am wondering about a popular outcry in Europe. It seems clear that renditions have been taking place with official approval of the various European governments. Do you think these governments, under pressure from their citizens, will henceforth refuse to participate? Thanks.

Craig Whitlock: Hello Somerville, an excellent question. I'm sure that the European governments will think a lot more carefully about cooperating in rendition cases in the future, if for no other reason than they know their actions and decisions may be held up to public scrutiny.

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Egg Harbor, N.J.: Post Editorial: "It's hard not to sympathize with the Secretary of State, who has seen 10 months of meticulous and until now successful work to repair transatlantic relations undermined by a policy not of her making."

Make that "undermined by a relentless barrage of leaks revealed by Washington Post reporters, intended to bring more discredit to the Bush administration but in reality severely damaging to the collection of information from high value targets and to intelligence cooperation from European countries already predisposed to anti-American rhetoric. The end result of the revelations can only increase security vulnerability within the United States, leading to the inevitable question: 'Was it worth it?'"

Craig Whitlock: Hello Egg Harbor. I take it you think our reporting was not worth it -- you're certainly entitled to your opinion, though I disagree

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Tokyo, Japan: What is the difference between China's People's Daily and The Washington Post?

In Nov 2nd, Dana Priest broke the news that the CIA holds terror suspects in secret prisons. But quote: "The Washington Post is not publishing the names of the Eastern European countries involved in the covert program, at the request of senior U.S. officials. They argued that the disclosure might disrupt counterterrorism efforts in those countries and elsewhere and could make them targets of possible terrorist retaliation." ref: CIA Holds Terror Suspects in Secret Prisons , ( Post, Nov. 2 )

Sounds like a reasonable clause for non-disclosure, national security, etc. But it begs the question about the right to know and who would be a better judge of what citizens of the free world should or should not know.

Should the editors of newspapers have that privilege? Or should our democratically elected government make that judgment? Surely they know better... or do they?

Is that the only difference between People's Daily and The Washington Post?

Craig Whitlock: I've never read the China's People's Daily, but I suspect there's a pretty big difference.

The editors of the Post are responsible for making decisions about everything that appears in the newspaper. it's not an easy job, and some people may reasonably disagree, but I can assure you the Post is hardly some house organ for any government.

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Winnipeg, Canada: Does the President not realize that actions like this, when they become public, put the lie to his assertion that those who oppose the U.S. efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan do so because "they hate our freedoms"? Or when he refers to "our freedoms" does he mean the American freedom to act like international brigands?

Craig Whitlock: Thanks for your comment, although I'm not going to try to divine the President's mind.

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Greenville, S.C.: Congratulations on great reporting on the CIA rendition of Abu Omar. Your story of June 26 said that nearly all of the American kidnappers were using fake names and IDs. Also, they had been living it up in Italy, staying in $450/night hotels, presumably at U.S. taxpayer expense, before and after the rendition.

Obviously, the Italian prosecutor is not going to get any help from America's DOJ, FBI or CIA. So, in order to get the real identities of the kidnappers, why doesn't the prosecutor appeal to the worldwide public via the Internet? He could easily post whatever surveillance data he's got, maybe pictures, itineraries, phone traffic, credit card charges, etc. Worldwide Web users, including Americans, might recognize some of these big spenders. A lot of believers in justice and human rights are also American taxpayers willing to drop a dime on these creeps.

Is the reason he hasn't posted this stuff on the web (1) he hasn't thought of it, or (2) he's playing some political game and doesn't really want to catch the kidnappers?

Craig Whitlock: That's a pretty interesting idea, though it would certainly be a little unusual. maybe Fox should broadcast a show called, "Italy's Most Wanted." (That's a joke)

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Coral Gables, Fla.: In your story, Abu Omar is identified as an Egyptian refugee. Is he an Egyptian citizen? What details do you have about Omar's asylum in Italy? Why did Italy grant it?

Also, what is known about international law for those granted asylum? If the Italian authorities--including Berlusconi--did in fact sign off on it, were Omar's rights violated? Can a government renege on asylum without any notice at all?

Craig Whitlock: Good questions. We know from court documents and interviews with people who know him that Abu Omar was granted asylum in Italy a few years ago. this does give him certain rights, including that of legal residency to remain in Italy. The Milan prosecutors say that the act of kidnapping definitely violated these rights. I'm not an expert on Italian immigration law, but I doubt a government could withdraw asylum without any notice at all.

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Toronto, Canada: The Post has been providing excellent coverage on flaws in the "war on terror". I particularly admire the articles of your colleague Dana Priest. In her article last Sunday she wrote that the something like 3,000 prisoners have been in CIA custody. Given the brutality with which the CIA has treated these prisoners I can't help thinking that there must have been far more deaths in custody than the handful that have come to light so far. There is the Abu Ghraib "iceman", and the unnamed fellow who froze to death in the salt-pit. What other deaths in custody are there where the CIA is known to have been involved? Care to estimate how many will known?

Craig Whitlock: Thanks for your comments. Dana has done some very impressive articles on the CIA's role in fighting terrorism. Personally I am not knowledgeable about any in-custody death cases involving the CIA so I won't hazard a guess.

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Washington, D.C.: Can you point to a good source that explains the basis for the assertion that rendition is illegal under U.S. and international law? It's intuitive but I've yet to see a clear analysis. Thanks.

Craig Whitlock: I'm not a lawyer and I don't have any legal citations handy. The U.S. government has said repeatedly that renditions are legal under U.S. law if certain circumstances are met, and they say each case is very carefully vetted by several government lawyers. Some critics have a different view, and say that it violates both U.S. and international law if the CIA hands over suspects to a third party that has a well-documented record of human rights abuses or torture.

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Toronto, Ontario: According to ABC news, in order to clear the way for Rice's European visit, the CIA's secret East European prisons have been emptied out, and the high value prisoners transferred to a facility in North Africa. Do you have any comment on this report? Is North Africa code for Morocco, usually cited as in the top three of Rendition destinations?

Craig Whitlock: I read a transcript of that report and obviously it's really, really interesting. I don't know where in North Africa they are referring to, though I sure wish I did. U.S. intelligence services have a close working relationship these days with just about every country in North Africa, including Morocco, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria and even Libya.

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Vienna, Va.: To New Orleans and others who say why is The Pos covering such stories, I'm with you and The Post. The motives behind those questions are short sighted. The point they make that these are all terrorists, is wrong. Many innocent people have been picked up in this process and tortured, albeit in error but it happened. These cases as you said are being investigated by our allies (Canada, Italy and Germany among others).

How would they respond if one of them is picked up in this manner and sent to Syria or Egypt for interrogations?

Craig Whitlock: Thanks for your comments.

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Munich, Germany: As in the case of the wrongful rendition of the German citizen, Khaled Masri, your article on the CIA abduction describes the situation where certain levels of Italian and German government were supposedly informed of the CIA's activities, either beforehand of afterwards. Representatives from the criminal justice, however, were either left uninformed or actually misled. I think that this will hamper similar efforts in the future.

The other point that I noticed is the CIA agents who take part in these renditions actually enjoy what they are doing, referring to it as "fun". I think that by making renditions fun for the perpetrators, the danger is that rendition, and its ensuing torture, would be used too often instead as a measure of last resort. These CIA agents don't seem to be aware that they are playing with lives, some of which are completely innocent of any crimes or ill intent.

Craig Whitlock: Thanks for your comments. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say that CIA agents find renditions to be "fun." While there's been criticism of how they handled these cases, I'm sure the CIA has taken them very, very seriously.

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Washington, D.C.: I know you are trying to discuss your reporting and not your personal views but I'd like to ask you about this statement.

"but they haven't been charged or tried in a court of law"

Is it your opinion that terrorists should only be held under the same evidentiary standards that would apply to anyone else charged with a crime in the U.S. justice system?

Craig Whitlock: Please don't try to read any hidden opinions in my responses. the point I was trying to make is that it's hard for us to know what, exactly, these terrorism suspects are guilty of if they are imprisoned in completely secret circumstances with no public oversight.

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New York, N.Y.: Do you think that those who criticize you and The Post for researching and publishing articles that expose ethically or morally questionable practices of the current U.S. government just can't or don't want to believe that our government could be doing such reprehensible things? Why this tendency to not want to know, to stick one's head in the sand?

Craig Whitlock: No, I think it's just an honest difference of opinion.

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Washington, D.C.: Winnipeg's comments are dead on: Middle East experts have known for years that the dictatorships there all use American hypocrisy as a selling point for their own nefarious activities. E.g., "The Americans talk about due process for all people, but then they imprisoned thousands of men just like you after 9-11 for "questioning." This is why we must stamp out calls for an American-style democracy." They got a lot of mileage of the Katrina coverage, you can be sure.

Craig Whitlock: Thanks for your comments.

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Anonymous: Will this story put more pressure on Condoleezza Rice in light of her recent assertions that the U.S. has not violated the sovereignty of other nations? Will this case force the European Union to be any tougher on this issue than their current half-hearted investigation?

Craig Whitlock: I don't know. We'll see. She's in Europe all this week, and I'm sure the issue of the CIA's secret war on terror will come up at every stop.

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New York, N.Y.: Do we know for sure that Abu Omar is still being held in Egypt? Or are his whereabouts unknown? Has the ICRC been able to see him?

Craig Whitlock: Last we heard, from his family and his lawyer in Cairo, is that Abu Omar is still being held in Egypt. I don't know if the ICRC has been able to see him. His family has been allowed to visit him on occasion.

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Rockville, Md.: What is the background of these "interrogators?" Are they police or FBI? How long have they been at it? What happened to the "old hands." Most of the Vietnam crowd is retired, if not all. Do we have some from the first Iraq war? Afghanistan? Have they been around long enough to see if their tactics work or not?

Craig Whitlock: You've got me, since the interrogators usually don't talk about who they are or what they do. I think I recall a recent book being published by one retired U.S. military interrogator in Afghanistan, but I think that's different from CIA interrogations.

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Silver Spring, Md.: Frankly, I think Congress has an obligation to step in on the rendition issue. Quite simply, U.S. detainees should be held on US soil, where U.S. laws apply. Of course, this does not apply to POW situations, which should be monitored by the Red Cross and appropriate international authorities. Those are the legitimate rules of engagement, whether we are in a new kind of war or not. We have consistently seen that making up a new set of untested rules to deal with a new type of war is quite simply, a recipe for disaster, and it is a lot easier to get into a mess than to get out of it.

Craig Whitlock: Thanks for your comments.

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Munich, Germany: A quote from Dana Priest's article, "Anatomy of a CIA Mistake":

"It was the Camelot of counterterrorism," a former counterterrorism official said. "We didn't have to mess with others -- and it was fun."

Craig Whitlock: OK, interesting. I forgot about that quote from Dana's article. I can understand your point and concern about such sentiments.

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Toronto Ontario - responding to Washington, D.C.: One of your Washington, D.C. readers comments on Europeans who don't appreciate that "U.S. tactics" (i.e. rendition, torture and torture-lite) have "saved lives". Why should anyone believe the claims that these tactics have saved lives? Sober interrogation experts, at the FBI, and elsewhere, say torture just doesn't work. As The Post described, the tactics used on Shaykh al-Libi, the director of an al Qaeda training camp, produced a pack of lies about Saddam helping to train al Qaeda in how to use his WMD. The "tactics" didn't save lives there. Arguably they played an important role in tricking everyone, the neocons included, into a lemming rush into this pointless and destructive war.

Craig Whitlock: Thanks for your comments. in this regard I think you're right: it's virtually impossible to make an effective assessment about whether these tactics work when everything is done in secret. that's not to say that I expect the CIA is ever going to put up transcripts of their interrogations on the Internet, or even that it should.

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Jersey City, N.J.: Craig, how do you gauge the overall public reaction to your story and the many related ones from other news sources? Are Americans generally outraged, indifferent or oblivious? Do you see and obvious demographic blocks having common reactions? And how significant an effect do you think the ongoing human rights questions will have in the 2006 election cycle? Also, thanks to you and The Post for its great reporting. I wish I could have it delivered in N.J.

Craig Whitlock: Hello Jersey City. Frankly, I'm not a good person to ask to gauge the overall U.S. public reaction to stories like this, since I'm based in Berlin, Germany for the Post. This chat has been the best indicator I've ever had; there's no question there's tons of interest, though opinions are all over the map.

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Silver Spring, Md.: We will be nation of laws, or not, as we choose. Yes, 9/11 was terrifying, but if it means that we will no longer be a nation of laws because of it, then that debate must be held in the open, not as an executive decision. To my knowledge, habeus corpus has not been suspended.

Craig Whitlock: Thanks for your comments, Silver Spring -- my old hometown.

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Arlington, Va.: Certainly the CIA has operated in European countries for decades, but normally with some level of cooperation from the host countries. Has the Bush White House given up on the idea of working with our erstwhile allies, or would the CIA argue that the pressure to move quickly has precluded the possibility of arranging the kind of behind the scenes agreements that would have been reached in the past.

Craig Whitlock: No, I'm sure the Bush administration has not given up on working with our allies. Secretary Rice stressed this in Berlin today. I think most intelligence officials would agree that it doesn't make any sense to go it alone when it comes to dealing with the global problem of terrorism.

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Williamsburg, Va.: Regards the "fun" question, here is the quote form Dana Priest's 12/4 article --

In the months after the Sept. 11 attacks, the CTC was the place to be for CIA officers wanting in on the fight. The staff ballooned from 300 to 1,200 nearly overnight.

"It was the Camelot of counterterrorism," a former counterterrorism official said. "We didn't have to mess with others -- and it was fun."

Craig Whitlock: Ok, that has a little more context than what Munich offered up. thanks

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Winthrop, Mass.: Since the CIA is under Sec Rice, I will assume that the people that wrote and approved or used the CIA Interrogation Manual, which includes severe forms of torture by any standard, will face swift termination and possible criminal investigations? If the USA doesn't torture, and Ms Rice has made that moral position clear to her staff, this manual represents what could almost be called an attempted coup in the are of intelligence.

Craig Whitlock: Last time I checked, the CIA didn't report to the Secretary of State. otherwise, thanks for your comments.

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Coral Gables, Fla.: It seems earlier today that the similarly-situated Mr. Khaled El-Masri (the German) filed a lawsuit against the U.S. in Alexandria. From your contacts with Abu Omar's family or lawyer, do you know if Mr. Omar might be considering a similar suit, either for damages or challenging his detention?

Craig Whitlock: I think Abu Omar has his hands full with his imprisonment in Cairo and isn't exactly in a position to sue anyone. he also faces an arrest warrant, issued several weeks ago, in Italy on allegations that he participated in a network that recruited fighters to go to Iraq.

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Craig Whitlock: Thanks everyone for the excellent questions and comments. I'm going to wrap it up now.

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