Williams Faces Scheduled Execution

Advocates for Crips Co-Founder Stanley "Tookie" Williams Sought Clemency

Newark City Council Member at Large Ras Baraka  who helped mediate a peace treaty between the Crips and Bloods in 2004, discusses the scheduled execution of Crips co-founder Stanley "Tookie" Williams and the case for clemency.

The transcript follows.

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Albany, N.Y.: Since the claimed purpose of the prison system is to renovate individuals, and Williams has renovated himself, I don't see any point in executing him. The message to me seems pretty clear: rehabilitate yourself, try to do good, try to be a good model, and suffer anyway.

Ras Baraka: It is has been proven that the death penalty is flawed. There have actually been many people on death row that have been wrongly executed or that have been released because of their innocence. It seems to me that the greater good of society would be to allow Stanley Williams to continue to help to reverse the affects of gang life on our youth. At this point he is much more valuable to society alive than he is dead. The death penalty is a form of revenge and not justice.

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Washington, D.C.: I am four-square against the death penalty. But I just don't understand why Williams should get special treatment. Scores of death row inmates have repented and sought to work for the betterment of society. Where were you for them? What of those who repented and still are on death row? Oh right--none of them was responsible for creating to an entirely new and vicious culture of violence, so they don't have the media machine he does. How can you justify screaming for his life while remaining silent about the three men already put to death just this month?

Ras Baraka: Clearly the Death Penalty is flawed and I agree with Governors that have put moratoriums on the death penalty. I should also say that I have been vocal about the death penalty, but as you have pointed out the media chooses what to cover the news they see fit to print. My own sister was killed by a maniac in New Jersey and I opposed the death penalty for him.

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Washington, D.C.: Why should Mr. Williams be spared rather than anyone else on death row? It's easy to characterize his later change of heart as a gambit to increase the likelihood of having his sentence commuted. Leaving aside whether his remorse is genuine, would (or should) that be enough to spare him?

Ras Baraka: The Death penalty is wrong. It is a form of state sponsored violence and revenge. it has very little to do with justice. In fact the work that Stanley Williams is doing serves the greater good. He is using his time to work on reversing a culture of violence this should be aided and not destroyed. Should we base our decision on emotion and hate, or use this as an opportunity to help thousands of kids that may have chose the route Stanley did. If he can help to change this he should be allowed to; that is a greater form of justice.

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Clarksdale, Miss.: Tookie is the only one on death row that I see has turned his life around. He's writing books to keep kids out of gangs, self evidence that he change. By killing him you can't bring the dead back. Plus he said he is innocent, and you can't trust a jail house snitch, they will do anything to get out. Finally, he has been nominated for a Nobel Peace award-what other death row inmate has?

Ras Baraka: I agree with you. Stanley has and is continuing to serve his time. He has chosen to serve his time to help address the problems that he inadvertently caused. I have personally witnessed young people that have used Stanley's protocols for peace to begin to lay down their weapons and organize for peace in their communities. This should not be destroyed!

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Washington, D.C.: The arguments for and against clemency seem to be focused on whether this defendant's anti-gang work demonstrates a proper measure of atonement and rehabilitation. But I've seen very little discussion of the evidence that earned him his convictions in the first place. He has always claimed that he is innocent and that he was framed. Is there any real possibility that he is telling the truth? Personally, I have no sympathy for someone who committed four murders, no matter how sorry he claims to be. But it would be monstrous to execute someone for crimes he didn't commit.

Ras Baraka: Again, the flaws in using the death penalty have been exposed. If you review the transcripts of his trial it is clear that he has been convicted solely on circumstantial evidence and convicted felons that had material and real purpose for participating with the prosecution.

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Turlock, Calif.: Under what circumstances and why should a convicted murderer be granted clemency?

Ras Baraka: First I must say that I disagree with the death penalty. Not only is has it been flawed in its use, but it has never been statistically proven to be a real deterrent to crime. I believe Stanley has atoned for his part in the development of the Crips gang and is working to reverse the negative causes of his involvement. He maintains his innocence and has had a very real affect on urban communities around the country.

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Re: Albany, N.Y.: "Albany, N.Y.: Since the claimed purpose of the prison system is to renovate individuals..."

Is it? I thought the prison system was there to punish people, not necessarily to rehabilitate.

Ras Baraka: I guess that is the crux of it all. What is our prison system designed to do? I strongly believe that at its core should be rehabilitation. Many prisoners have to return to society and should be in an institution that will prepare them for reentry and not to return. In every punishment should be education or learning to improve the individual and society itself not just revenge or murder with a purpose. We should have advanced as a society beyond hangings, bludgeoning, electrocuting, and placing people before firing lines.

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Va.: Can we drop the Nobel Prize line anyone can nominate someone for it so the fact that the Founder of a Gang that killed a vast number of people and to this day terrorizes people in every major city has been nominated should not mean a thing.

Ras Baraka: I think this response is disingenuous. Stanley was involved in the Crips organization before it spiraled out of control and has been working to reverse that trend for years. The society we live in has probably has an equal if not greater responsibility for youth violence than a man that has been behind bars most of his life. The Terminator hisself that ironically will decide his fate had promoted tons of violence through mass media. Holding Tookie responsible for all of the deaths that the Crips were involved in is clearly not the answer

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The Effect of the Crips: Williams co-founded the Crips. They have killed many, many people. Williams should be found guilty-by-association for all the killings simply because he created the gang!

Ras Baraka: That kind of response is dangerous and immature. To hold him responsible for people he has never met or spoken with is clearly unfair. Then who should we hold responsible for the video games, movies, music, books, statements, gun manufacturers that also play a part in the deaths of thousands, and how will they be held accountable. Should they also be put on death row?

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Arlington, Va.: It may not be a deterrent but it is a sure cure for recidivism! Is there any evidence that Tookie's books have actually helped?

Ras Baraka: There is actually real proof that Tookies protocols for peace have been used and was instrumental in laying a foundation for a peace agreement in Newark, N.J. where I am from. His book are also used in classrooms around the country to help promote peace and try to redirect some of the aberrant behavior that our find themselves involved in. He, unlike many of us, has the authenticity to speak to these young people and deter violence and recidivism

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Woodbridge, Va.: Hi Mr. Baraka, I admire your stance on the death penalty given your own family circumstances. I do not know of one publicized case where people actually felt better after a convicted person was executed. The release victims' families are seeking is just not there. One of my friends was murdered and her killer is on death row in Calif. I don't think that his execution would make me feel any better about her having been killed.

Ras Baraka: I agree with that. We are looking for our hurt to disappear and that will only happen with time and prayer. Killing someone else will not. In fact that is the same logic gang bangers use. One of them may be killed and they in turn seek revenge hoping to get some form of justice, but they don't have the state to support them. Its only ok if we get he stat to agree that this person needs to die and they do it that it becomes ok.

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Lanesboro, Minn.: Mr. Baraka, are you for abortion? It's a personal issue I know but I do find it interesting that people who are against the death penalty are usually for abortion. Save the guilty and kill the innocent.

Ras Baraka: That's a good question, and the reverse is true as well. I think that people are for saving gods creation at birth but are for killing people that may even be innocent on death row. But personally its not about abortions for me. Its about the giving the women a right to choose themselves and not let the state get involved, or mandate what a woman should do with her body or her choice. But death is death, and as I don't want the state to interfere with a women's right they should not take it upon themselves to take life as well.

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Annapolis Md.: Williams has REFUSED to this day to disclose information about his gang associates. Also, last time I checked HE WAS ON VIDEO during one of his crime sprees. He isn't exactly being convicted on 3rd hand hearsay. He is about as reformed as a rat in a trap promising not to eat any more cheese.

Ras Baraka: That is a very uninformed statement. Stanley Williams has been working diligently to reform hisself and help others. This didn't happen overnight he worked at this. And there are no videos of him committing murder or on a spree as you call it.

The problem is we don't believe in rehabilitation or we believe in it for some and not others. That is some people have the power to rehabilitate themselves but others are rats as we call them and have no power to do that.

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Oakland, Calif.: I think the majority of our community thinks that Tookie isn't no angel, but that doesn't mean they have to put him down like you do a vicious dog. The man has done a miraculous change in jail and there ought to be some reckoning for that.

Ras Baraka: I agree, he has admitted that he was no angel and we agree that as well, but we need all of the examples that we can get that will help us in an ongoing struggle in our communities to help deal with a national surge in gang violence that has affected many urban areas and is beginning to reach the suburban areas as well.

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Washington, D.C.: What about those who say that the only way in which Williams can fully atone for his actions is by being put to death? That no amount of jailhouse righteousness can make up the difference. There are some things so important (another person's life) that to require anything less than the death penalty is to minimize the importance.

Ras Baraka: Death is not atonement. How can you repent or deal with what you have done when you are dead? Have you not heard the saying "put him out of his misery." The misery of reliving and answering to the things that he has done and working to correct them. That is atonement. Death is an escape for many and does not help the individual perpetrator or the victim.

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Dangerous and Immature?: Crips, along with other gangs, are not created to have a positive impact on society. They are created in order to fight with other gangs and to terrorize everyone around them! Gangs serve no good purpose in society. They are a negative impact and, unfortunately, misled youth are often drawn in.

Ras Baraka: This is partially true. Most immigrants and urban migrants formed social clubs, associations, street organizations, gangs. The purpose in their onset has always been protection. When they begin to commit crime they are called gangs rightfully so. And this trend is a s old as the creation of the New West; it needs to be addressed and I think Stanley is doing that and has become part of the solution. Most of our responses are based on emotion, lack of information, and stereotype. Its dangerous to formulate ideas in the dark and act on them.

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Washington, D.C.: Ras, while I appreciate your views would you still feel the same way about clemency for Mr. Williams if you or someone you loved were one of Mr. Williams' victims?

Ras Baraka: I said earlier that my sister was killed by a crazy person, actually someone I knew. he received 169 years for his act. I, and my family was opposed to the death penalty in this case. That is documented.

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Lanesboro, Minn.: Mr. Baraka, re abortion I disagree. I'm not trying to make this a religious chat either. The abortion issue, like the death penalty, transcends religion. But abortion is not about a woman's right to choose. It's about an individual's right to live. Like the death penalty. Correct? The life inside a woman's body is an individual. Not a god. But a person like the individual on death row.

Ras Baraka: Absolutely, Where we part ways is the belief that woman should have no right to choose;that the state should interfere and force a woman to do anything with their body.

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Video games don't kill people...: " Then who should we hold responsible for the video games, movies, music, books, statements, gun manufacturers that also play a part in the deaths of thousands, and how will they be held accountable."

I see your point, but come on - video games do not kill people. Guns do not kill people (although of course they are used in the act of some killings). Gang members do kill people.

Ras Baraka: But that argument excludes Stanley. He didn't kill any of the people you are referring to but you make him guilty because he is being used as a kind of tool or accessory in the fact of that death. This also applies to gun manufacturers, videos games etc. They are tools used to promote, agitate, justify, create the atmosphere/culture if you will for violence and death.

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Norfolk, Va.: Tookie was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. This, of course, is a favorite line of the media... but it's also the Great Lie about Tookie.

Anyone with any professional standing can nominate someone for a Nobel Peace Prize. Tookie was never seriously considered for any peace prize -- he's a notorious, remorseless multiple killer.

Ras Baraka: Where is there proof of this. A notorious killer, you mean like Charles Mason that still lives. Are we this angry with him? Are we calling for his death a mass murderer. Your response is very emotional and uninformed.

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Washington, D.C.: Whatever happened to the saying if you can't do the time don't do the crime? Regardless of Williams' rehabilitation he must be punished for his crimes.

Ras Baraka: He has been and is still being punished is death the only form of punishment

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North Carolina: As for your claim that the death penalty doesn't work, whom that has been executed has gone on to kill again?

One of the arguments against clemency for Mr. Wilson is that he refuses to divulge any information on the "Crips" in order to help investigators. This leaves the impression that his "reformation" and books may be a little opportunistic.

Ras Baraka: The real problem with that is that there have been innocent people that have been killed. There have been people, with the help of the new DNA evidence that have been released after long periods of time in jail. Its clear that we have a long way to go in our society form barbarism

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