TV: "Skating With Celebrities"

"Skating for Dummies" for the Small Screen

Post Style writer Jose Antonio Vargas, who can show you the difference between a lutz and a salchow, knows a little too much about figures skating, past and present.

He was online Thursday, Jan. 19, at 11 a.m. ET to discuss Wednesday night's premiere of "Skating With Celebrities," and anything figure skating-related. Like, is Michelle Kwan finally going to win herself a gold medal at next month's Olympic Games?

Read the Review: Fox's 'Skating': Olympians and Triple Klutzes (Post, Jan. 18)

A transcript follows.

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Jose Antonio Vargas: Thanks for joining us. I'm Jose; I write for Style; an for a year or two, I took figure skating seriously, seriously enough that I can still do a few double jumps. It's a busy skating season, with the Winter Olympics only a few weeks away -- should be an exciting competition, especially the ladies -- and "Skating with Celebrities" premiering last night. Let's get started.

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Orono, Maine: It seems like "Skating With Celebrities" would have been a perfect gig for Tonya Harding. Do you know if she was ever considered for the program?

Jose Antonio Vargas: Imagine! Tonya Harding, paired up with Bob Saget (or someone like that), taking on Nancy Kerrigan and Dave Coulier. Now there's good TV. But Tonya, last I heard, is now way out of the skating scene; I wonder if she can still jump.

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Brooklyn, N.Y.: Hello --

I watched some of the show last night and thought it was horrible. If I were ABC I would be soo p----d off by the blatant rip- off. WOW! On the other hand, Jillian Barberie didn't skate that badly!

Jose Antonio Vargas: I also wrote about "Dancing with the Stars" its first time out, and I learned that the folks at FOX conceived of "Skating with Celebrities" BEFORE "Dancing" became such a ratings hit. (Who saw THAT coming?) So you be the judge.

Yes, Jillian Barberie was far and away the best of the celeb skaters. But that's because she has skated in the past; folks like Todd Bridges and Bruce Jenner are clearly novices.

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Edmonds, Wash.: Do you think there'll be a time when we have same-sex pairs in competition?

The closest that came to last night was when one of the female stars, was it Nancy K?, dressed in a man's suit, which partially covered her partner's flaws because you expected the man to be more athletic.

Like it was jarring to see Tai B. outperforming her newbie partner.

Jose Antonio Vargas: Same-sex pairs? In pairs skating? I highly doubt it, at least not in this decade.

Yes, Nancy Kerrigan was dressed up as a man in her program with Dave Coulier -- to the music, I believe, of the Blues Brothers. And good point: Nancy dressing in a man's suit did help cover up Dave's flaws. Dave is a hockey player, and apparently a good one at that. But hockey players will tell you that hockey is nothing like figure skating. The skates, for one, are different. If you watch Dave closely, he's not very good at turning and spinning around.

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Centreville, Va.: Why are these 'C' and 'D' list celebrities even relevant? Why should anyone care? I suppose it's funny to see Todd Bridges and his ilk land on their fannies once or twice, but it seems like it would get old rather quickly.

Another example of Fox appealing to the lowest common denominator. Call me a snob, but PBS aired a great show last night about the French and Indian War ...

Jose Antonio Vargas: You know what I kept thinking about? The movie "George of the Jungle" with Brendan Fraser. I mean the first few "George, George, George of the Jungle, watch out for that tree!" was funny, but it got old quickly. Seeing Bridges, Jenner and Swanson fall on their you-know-what will get old very fast, I think.

Fox is interested, first and foremost, in ratings. And this is a train-wreck on skates. How can you NOT watch? (Or so they hope.)

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Houston, Tex.: Who's your favorite to win the ladies' gold medal in Italy? Sasha Cohen? What about Michelle Kwan?

Jose Antonio Vargas: Here's an Olympic question.

Some background: Sasha Cohen just won her first national championships this past weekend, after winning the silver a record four times. Michelle Kwan, the most decorated U.S. skater in history, was injured for a few weeks and only started training again a few days ago. If Kwan is healthy enough, she'll go to her third Olympics. If Cohen can skate the way only she can -- meaning no falls, no misses, no hesitation -- she will win the Gold. Everyone is really big on Kwan, but Cohen, as far as I can tell, is the best female skater I've ever seen. Better than Fleming, Hamill, Yamaguchi, Baiul, Lipinski, Hughes -- and, yes, Kwan. She's got it all -- best spins, best spirals, good technique in her jumps, etc. If only she can skate her best when it matters most.

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Metro Center, Washington, D.C.: I just wanted to say, I loved it. In a Joe Millionaire kind of way. And I plan to watch it next week as well, but this time with a nice cold martini in hand.

Jose Antonio Vargas: Haha. I like that. In a "Joe Millionaire" kind of way. Who was your favorite pair? I'm not one to hate on someone who gets a kick out of this. To each his own...but as a skating fan, it made me cringe one too many times.

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Springfield, Va.: Was this a painful review for you to write? When I first saw the previews for this show, I just couldn't believe it. This was a "screaming at the TV" moment for me. I am continually amazed by the lengths the networks go to for a few extra bucks, and the public just eats it up so nothing ever changes.

All cynicism aside, this is, in part, a sleazy slap in the face to all the young Olympic hopefuls and skating enthusiasts out there who would have loved an opportunity to work with actual athletes like Nancy Kerrigan. Instead, this golden opportunity is dangled over a bunch of erstwhile has-beens who are so desperate to get back in the limelight that they'll do anything in the name of ratings.

Bottom line, there's just no heart left in these programs. Does TV serve no other purpose than to stroke the egos of some very insecure mediocre people through public humiliation and actual injury while making as much money as possible?

In the U.K. several years ago, there was a program called "Operatunity", which let ordinary members of the public (from the straight-laced accountant to the supermarket check-out clerk mother of three) compete for the title role in an upcoming English National Opera production. A select cut had to learn choreography, acting, additional voice control and other tricks before an eventual soloist was singled out. The stakes were high, the emotions were strong, and the program was generally amazing to watch. A bit highbrow for the average couch potato, I know, but why don't we see more programs like this on our side of the pond?

Am I the only one who feels this way?

Jose Antonio Vargas: Painful? A little. But it was fun to write. (It's much easier to slam something than praise it, at least in my experience.) Figure skating is a sport -- and, yes, it is a sport -- that gets very little respect, and this show does nothing but, I think, embarrass the skaters and the pseudo-celebrities.

And, yes, this is a slight slap in the face of the real skaters out there. But maybe they're getting a chuckle or two out of it.

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Port of Spain, Trinidad & Tobago.: Roller Skating with Celebrities.

How's that for a Summer '06 celebration?

Jose Antonio Vargas: Only if the contestants will roller skate to tango, cha cha cha and merengue songs!

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Philadelphia, Pa.: Come on. The show wasn't that bad. And Bruce Jenner actually jumped. What was that? It wasn't a triple jump, but it was a jump.

Jose Antonio Vargas: Well, as I noted, it's like "Skating for Dummies" writ large, if you're into that kind of thing. (Which I'm clearly not.)

And, yes, Mr. Jenner did jump. If I remember correctly, he landed two consecutive Waltzes. Not bad for a 55-year-old neophyte. But still, he looked mighty scared in a few moments. And I was scared for Tai.

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Bethesda, Md.: How can the label "reality television" be applied to this show? It features celebrities rather than real people and features a plot so contrived it wouldn't last as a sitcom.

Jose Antonio Vargas: Hear, hear. I mean, we all know who's going to win this thing, right? (Hint: The celeb who can actually skate.)

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Re. Olympics: Sasha's only the best when she can hold it all together, which is rare. Hence the 4th place finish at the '02 games and the four silvers. And her placements at the Worlds. She only won the Nationals this time because the rest of the competition is still young and relatively new to the seniors.

My pick for gold -- Irina.

Jose Antonio Vargas: Agreed. But you have to admit that Sasha, overall, is far superior to Irina Slutskaya, the Russian jumping dynamo. (Who, by the way, skates really, really fast. Saw her live at a competition was and I thought she was going to skate her way to Oklahoma by the end of her program.)

But here's the truth: winning the Gold in Olympcs means being the best skater in that one particular competition. Look at what happened to Baiul, Lipinski and Hughes, all gold medalists?

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Washington, D.C.: From the ads, it looked like a blonde woman was cut rather badly across the chin. Right?

Jose Antonio Vargas: Yes, and I believe that was Kristy Swanson, who's paired up with Lloyd Eisler, the Canadian pairs champ. We won't see any real bleeding 'til the 3rd and 4th episodes, I think. They're saving the "best" for later.

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Hotlanta: Somebody asked The Reliable Sourcettes yesterday if you're hot. They declined to answer. So, are you?

Jose Antonio Vargas: I know who asked this question and will not dignify it with an answer.

The Sourcettes, however, are hot! (And I'm being objective here.)

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Falls Church, Va.: Two thing -- (1) Is it really fair to have Jillian on there when she clearly has a background in skating? (2)The real heros aren't the skaters, but the choreographers, who actually put together somewhat interesting and cute routines.

Jose Antonio Vargas: 1) I thought the same thing. It's not fair, but then again who was going for fair?

2) Agreed. Some of the choreographers are former champion skaters themselves; Renee Roca, a U.S. ice dancer, and Randy Gardner, Tai Babilonia's pairs partner.

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Fairfax, Va.: Whatever did happen to Lipinski?

Jose Antonio Vargas: She's trying -- trying being the key word -- to have an acting career.

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Washington, D.C.: I am a skating fan, and I thought it was a lot of fun. I didn't take it all that seriously; it was just an hour of entertainment that my kids and I enjoyed together. Frankly, we were pretty impressed with all of the celebrities, because they are non-skaters (non-figure skaters, at least) and, in the span of only a month, they were executing moves such as waltz jumps (go, Bruce Jenner!), spins, and lifts. Several years ago (at age 40), I took skating lessons and made it through the Gamma level. My three-turns and mohawks are still shaky, and I wouldn't even think about trying a spin! So, to see these skating newbies doing some of these moves was rather nice, I thought!

And for the Olympics, if she's healthy, Michelle Kwan all the way! Yes, Sasha is a beautiful skater, but I'll always be partial to Michelle for her spiral (the way she changes her edge!), the beautiful expression in her skating, and her overall personality.

Jose Antonio Vargas: I'm glad you liked the show. Again, it just made me cringe. And, yes, those Waltz jumps were pretty good. Skating is a tough sport, especially tough if you try to pick it up later in life.

RE: Michelle v. Sasha. It will be very interesting. The new scoring system -- goodbye 6.0, welcome some big number -- favors a more complete skater like Sasha, though. Don't get me wrong, Michelle is great -- and yes, that inside-to-outside edge spiral is iconic -- but Sasha is the better jumper and better spinner, no doubt about it.

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Washington, D.C.: Hello,I just have to say that you are spot on in your analysis of Sasha Cohen and her skating abilities. From the moment I saw her several years ago, I could just see that she had IT, the absolute total package to be graceful and powerful as a skater. And I wholeheartedly agree that she is the best skater out there. I think her stumbling block is her ability to skate flawlessly during competition.

Jose Antonio Vargas: I've seen Sasha skate live twice -- and man, I was blown away. The ease of it all. I'd venture to say that her Sasha spiral -- I wish I could describe it in words, but I can't -- is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen on the ice. Look, skating is about speed, depth of edges, technique and expression. She's got it all.

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Philadelphia, Pa.: They should have old rockers in this competition. Wouldn't it be grand to try and see Keith Richards and Rod Stewart trying to skate?

Jose Antonio Vargas: Haha. Now there's a show! And Rod Stewart can sing one of his rueful American Songbook series songs!

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Jose Antonio Vargas: I apologize in advance to a few spelling mistakes. Lots of questions and I'm trying to get to all of them.

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Vienna, Va..: I was very excited to see that Maryland native Kimmie Meissner skated to the music of another Marylander, the late Eva Cassidy, at the skating gala this past weekend. She is now the fourth world-class skater to choose Eva's music (following Michelle Kwan, Kristi Yamaguchi, and Sarah Hughes).

Have the rules changed for competition music, or is vocal music still prohibited?

Jose Antonio Vargas: Glad you caught the music!

And you're right, I think Kimmie is the fourth skater to skate to Eva Cassidy. Vocal music is still prohibited in Olympic competition, at least for the men's and ladies'. I believe the ice dancers are now allowed to use vocals in their music.

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Cohen vs. Kwan: Can either of these skaters be awarded the gold medal? After all, there are other skaters who are prettier, and that's what really matters in "competitive skating."

Jose Antonio Vargas: There's only one gold medal, and it will go to....who knows?

I for one didn't see Sarah Hughes coming in Salt Lake. I was convinced that, if she skated clean, Kwan would win, or that if Sasha dazzled, she'd win.

As for who's the prettier, I've always had a thing for Michelle. Always. But let's not get into that.

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Vienna, Va.: I watched the women's finals this weekend and felt that Sasha's was the only performance worth watching the entire evening. She is a mature skater and everybody else looked like a "junior" to me. Do you agree?

The one thing I can't stand about Sasha is the way she moves her hands to look like talons. She always does it. My ten-year-old son described this as "scary, like Cruella deVil."

Jose Antonio Vargas: Haha. Your son is perceptive!

I'll say it again: Sasha is the most complete ladies skater I've ever seen, on TV and live. Her choice of music too -- Nino Rota's "Romeo & Juliet" -- is fitting. The music cries out for sweeping, dramatic moves, which Sasha does best. (Watch that spiral sequence mid-program.) And, yes, most everyone else -- including Kimmie and Emily, the younger sister of Sarah -- seemed "junior." It's one thing to be able to jump your way to a competition; we saw that with Tara Lipinski. It's quite another to skate as if you're floating on the ice and the only thing that matters is the music and the blades. I'm getting all corny here, pardon me.

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Fairfax, Va.: How significant and important, in professional figure skating, is music selection? And do the skaters have to always interpret what is going on musically? Do the judges count that in?

Jose Antonio Vargas: Good question.

How significant? Very. When you watch skaters skate to music, pay attention to as to where the music crescendos, where it speeds it, where it gets soft, and pay attention as to what the skaters are doing -- jumping? spinning? gliding?

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Muz, Alaska: Why no vocal music in competitive skating?

Jose Antonio Vargas: Another good question.

The thinking is, in Olympic competitions, the lyrics of a particular music helps the skater interpret the song. Imagine Sasha Cohen skating to, God forbid, "My Heart Will Go On." On the other hand, skating to Ravel or Rachmaninoff or Bach requires more thinking in the minds of skaters and choreographers -- where do you put in the elements?

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Anonymous: "I think her stumbling block is her ability to skate flawlessly during competition. "

Well, duh. How obvious. But, for a COMPETITIVE SKATER, inability to skate flawlessly during COMPETITION seems like an ENORMOUS stumbling block ...

Jose Antonio Vargas: That's why Michelle Kwan is so highly regarded. When it comes to handling on-ice pressure -- the crowd applauds loudest for Kwan -- no one handles it better. No one. Not even Katrina Witt, I think.

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New York, N.Y.: I'm rooting for Sasha to win -- she's such a gorgeous skater and deserves it.

I actually enjoyed the show last night. The celebs were much better than I anticipated -- Bruce Jenner actually hitting waltzes! And it was great to see Tai and Dorothy Hamill again.

The show is a rip-off of American Idol, much more so than Dancing with the Stars.

Jose Antonio Vargas: Yes, agreed. "Skating with Celebrities" is closer to "American Idol," with Dorothy Hamill playing the encouraging Paula Abdul role and Sir John Nicks (the coach of Sasha Cohen) playing the mini-Simon Cowell.

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Chicago, Ill.: Is Fox planning on airing the show on another night? It seems a shame that such a good premise is wasted going up against Lost and Veronica Mars.

Jose Antonio Vargas: The show moves to Mondays starting next on the 23rd. Yeah, how does one compete with "Lost"?!?

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Re. Juniors vs. Sasha: Emily and Kimmie are 5-6 years younger, so of course they don't have the "polish".

At least Sasha finally realized that skating should be for the experience and not the gold that she had yet to get. How many moves/coaches has she had in the last 4 years?

Jose Antonio Vargas: Four coaching changes, I believe, in four years for Sasha.

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St. Louis, Mo.: How do you think the men will do at the Olympics?

Jose Antonio Vargas: My money is on the Russians, as usual -- who will usually wear their retro-70s, this-is-so-bad-it's-always-comical costumes. Now here's an idea: why don't the men compete in white T-shirts and black tights? That way, the audience won't be so blinded with such horrific costume choices.

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Sterling, Va.: I think the Olympic gold medal is Sasha's to lose. Even if Michelle can get herself into top form by then, I'm not sure she will have what it will take to take the gold. It would be a shame for her to end her Olympic-eligible career on such a whimper.

So who do you see has the best chance for the gold on the men's side? Does Plushenko have it in the bag?

Jose Antonio Vargas: That's what I fear too -- Michelle ending her career in such a whimper.

Now here's a little anecdote. It was 1998. Nagano. I was in high school. Michelle loses to Tara Lipinski. The next day, a few of my friends -- knowing that I'd like to marry Michelle someday -- made signs saying, "I'm sorry Michelle lost!" That was funny.

And, yes, Plushenko and his quad toes will get the gold. In what I'm sure will be horrific costume.

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Bethesda, Md.: Figure skating is the LAMEST competition in the Olympics. With all the scandals why do people still watch this? It is completely subjective. Something that is COMPLETELY subjective cannot EVER be a sport. It should get kicked out of the Olympics so that they can show more interesting actually sports on the limited coverage of the Winter Games. How about showing more Speed Skating, Luge, Bobsled, Skiing or even Curling!

Jose Antonio Vargas: This is perhaps a good note to end the discussion. And all I'll say is skating is the most watched Olympic sports, summer or winter. I think the reason behind that is because it IS subjective. You almost always end up questioning who won the competition.

For any other skating questions, you can e-mail me at vargasj@washpost.com. Thanks!

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