Book World Live

Peter Bergen, "The Osama Bin Laden I Know"

"When the Arabic news network al-Jazeera broadcast a new audiotape believed to be from Osama bin Laden on Thursday, it gave us the first evidence we've had in 13 months that the al Qaeda leader still lives."

"So who was this son of a Yemeni businessman turned Saudi construction magnate? What made him into history's most successful terrorist? Peter L. Bergen has written what will long be a 'go-to' resource for those seeking answers to such questions. A Johns Hopkins University faculty member and a CNN consultant who himself met bin Laden in 1997, Bergen has created something unique: a chronological record of what is known about bin Laden from his birth in 1957 to 2005, assembled by stringing together statements from bin Laden and those who taught him, met him, worked with him or interviewed him over those 48 years." ( Who Is He? , Jan. 22)

Author Peter Bergen is online to take questions and comments about his new book and findings on the world's most wanted man.

Peter Bergen is also the author of "Holy War, Inc.: Inside the Secret World of Bin Laden" and an adjunct professor at the School of Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University.

Join Book World Live each Tuesday at 3 p.m. ET for a discussion based on a story or review in each Sunday's Book World section.

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Baltimore, Md.: Hi Peter. I am probably a bit younger (26)then most people who ask you insightful questions about Al Qaeda and its structure, but my main questions is this, why does Bin Laden blame the U.S.? Is it b/c of our support for Israel? Our handling of the Gulf region after the 1991 Persian Gulf War?How did Bin Laden become such a monster? As a Saudi businessman who is a non-religious figure, how has garnered so much clout over his followers? Thank you.

Peter Bergen: By Bin Laden's own account the 1982 occupation of southern Lebanon by Israel prompted his first dislike of the United States, because of American support for Israel. During the 1980s OBL was boycotting American goods because of US support for Israel. That dislike turned to hatred of the US after American troops arrinved in large number in Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden saw this as "infidel" troops trespassing on his holy land.

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Los Angeles, Calif.: When Mr. Bin Laden makes these tapes, they do seem positioned more for the Muslim audience than the American audience. How does he try to position himself within these tapes to gain favor with Muslims? Does he view himself as a kind of second Mohommed?

Peter Bergen: It's hard to say if OBL sees himself as a second Mohammed. He would find the idea blasphemous. However, he certainly models his life on aspects of the Prophet's life, for instance, seeing him own migration from the Sudan to Afghanistan in 1996 as an echo of the Prophet's migration from Mecca to Medina in 622.

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Seal Beach, Calif: What do we know about the whereabouts of his wives and children? With such a large extended family, surely some family members must have contact with him or with his protectors.

Peter Bergen: Excellent question. In my new book I found that one of his sons Omar, aged 23-24 left Afghanistan in disgust after 9/11 and is back in Saudi. Similarly OBL's oldest son, Abdullah, is no longer with his father. However, three of OBL's wives stuck by him after 9/11 as did something like a dozen of his kids. Where they are no one knows. My guess is Afghanistan. The larger Bin Laden family has cut off contact with their infamous relative.

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San Francisco, Calif.: Hi Peter,

Thanks for taking our questions.

Can you discuss the connection, or lack thereof, between the Bush family and bin Laden family from "back in the day," prior to Osama's ascendance as our national enemy? I'm familiar with Michael Moore's take on this relationship between the elders Bush and bin Laden, but would appreciate your more balanced perspective.

Thanks -

Peter Bergen: The bush and bin Laden family had a "six degrees of separation" contact through Salem bin Ladin, OBL's oldest brother. Salem was in business with a friend of George W Bush back in the late 1980s in Houston. Other than this is an interesting coincidence I don't attach much meaning to this. After all Salem loved the US and died in a plane crash in 1988 before OBL started his campaign against the US.

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Washington, DC: To what extent do you think OBL truly directs the actions of individual cells such as the London train bombing?

Peter Bergen: Well the London bombing is an example where OBL still having some kind of operational role. the lead suicide bomber Mohamed Khan released a suicide videotape made by al Qaeda's media arm, which is based in Pakistan. Khan cited OBL as his leadee, and on the same tape Ayman al Zawahiri explained that the bombing came because the British ignored OBL's offer of a "truce" in spring 2004.

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Jaffa, Israel: According to your understanding, is Al Qaeda involved in a war of religions or a war against Western policies in the Middle East? Which is the more important motive?

Peter Bergen: If you asked OBL he would say both. OBL is a fan of the idea of a clash of civilizations, a clash he believes that his version of Islam will prevail in. And of course he is opposed to Western polices in the Middle East. For bin Laden the political and the religious mesh as motives.

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Pensacola, Fla: Is it too cynical to believe that Bush needs a common enemy to protect us from and that no effort is being made to apprehend the evil one? It seems Pakistan has a vested interest in keeping him alive and that is the common bond with Bush.

Peter Bergen: It is too cynical to believe.

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Washington, DC: In reading the review that is located here online at the Post, I noticed that it states that you believe that OBL seems to think that the West has rapacious designs for the middle east. Is this your view, or an inept distillation of your view?

Peter Bergen: No I think that's a correct characterization. OBL has had this belief since US troops were posted to Saudi in 1990. He also thought that the US mission in Somalia in 92-93 was similarly part of a plan to takeover the Middle East.

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Trenton, NJ: Good Afternoon Peter.

Congrats on the new book.

With the recently reported increase in recruitment activity in Somalia by al Qaeda and like-minded ideologically driven supporters, has your research indicated significant numbers of terrorists in Somalia as extremists continue to train and then exit Iraq and Afghanistan?

Peter Bergen: I'm just not sure on this one.

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Charlottesville, Va: I've lived in Afghanistan off and on for the last 2 1/2 years (in fact I usually live in what used to be OSL's 4th wife's house in Kabul - thankfully they don't show up for dinner). I always find it curious that I never hear any mention of him from Afghans. Do you think he has fallen out of favor with most Afghans (who are certainly war-weary), that they just hide it around Americans, or that it's a regional thing and he is still admired in the south?

Peter Bergen: You of course refer to the wonderful Gandamack Lodge in Kabul where I also have spent a fair amount of time. I think you make an excellent point about the Afghans and OBL. Interestingly, there are almost no Aghan members of al Qaeda. Most Afghans saw the militant Arabs in their country as foreigners and had little sympathy for them historically.

Yes it may be a regional thing and he is admired in Pashtun area in the east and south.

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Chicago, Ill: Beyond your own book, could you recommend a few books that would provide a relatively well-informed reader some further understanding and historical perspective on the issues that face the Middle East? For example, what is required reading for your courses?

Peter Bergen: Im pasting in below the required reading for my class at SAIS. Its terrorism- and al Qaeda-focused, rather than focued on the history of the Middle East.

Fawaz Gerges has just published an excellent book, the Far Enemy, which is a great history of modern jihadist movements up to today.

The 9/11 Commission report (New York, Norton 2004)

Note that the hardback version has an index, which the paperback version lacks.

Anonymous, Through Our Enemies' Eyes: Osama bin Laden, Radical Islam and the Future of America. (Washington, DC: Brasseys, 2002) (Paperback edition)

Peter Bergen, Holy War, Inc. Inside the Secret World of Osama bin Laden (New York: Touchstone, 2002). (Paperback edition).

Jason Burke, Al-Qaeda: Casting a Shadow of Terror (New York: I.B. Tauris 2003). (Paperback edition)

Steve Coll, Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan and Bin Laden, From the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 (The Penguin Press, 2004)

Marc Sageman, Understanding Terror Networks (University of Pennsylvania Press 2004)

Rohan Gunaratna, Inside Al Qaeda, Global Network of Terror (New York, Columbia University Press 2002) (Paperback edition).

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Fort Collins, Colo: Risen said on Fresh Air that about 500 people in the US and 5000 in Europe were subject to the recently exposed NSA wire taps. President Bush says that it only targets known Al Qaeda members. Do we really know who is a member of Al Qaeda and do these numbers seem out of line to you?

Peter Bergen: Risen is one of the country's best and most careful reporters. So those numbers are I'm sure accurate.

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Oegstgeest, Netherlands: Hi Peter,

How do you assess Dick Cheney's statement that there is probably no connection between Iran and al-Qa 'ida? Among experts it is well known that there still are high al-Qa' ida figures in Iran, one of them being a son of UBL. Kenneth Timmerman published in his latest book on Iran what he calls a smoking gun document on the cooperation between the government of Iran and al-Qa' ida and Hezbollah. He refers to a strategy meeting in which terrorist attacks have been discussed in case Iran would be referred to the UNSC. If that happens terrorist plans can be activated which will be executed by Iranian proxies. Dop you consider this hypothesis plausible?

Peter Bergen: Hezbollah had dealing with al Qaeda in the early 90s in Lebanon. Iran is holding under some form of house arrest a number of al Qaeda leaders. Would elements in Iran and al Qaeda cooperate in future terror attacks, I'm just not sure.

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Washington, D.C.: Peter,

Do you fear that books such as yours may give the impression of a sympathization with terrorist groups, thereby deligitimizing the War on Terror?

Peter Bergen: My book is intended to offer information about bin Laden and al Qaeda. I doubt anybody reading the book would come away having much sympathy for a group determined to kill millions of Americans. In the book I quote al Qaeda's spokesman, Suleimain Abu Ghaith, who says al Qaeda would be justified in killing four million Americans.

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New York, NY: The 9/11 hijackers were Saudis and Egyptians; what is OBL's current, non-official relationship with citizens of these countries and have their gov'ts done anything to deter terrorism?

Peter Bergen: Egypt has been somewhat succesful in deterring terrorism since the 1997 Luxor massacre. In the several years before Luxor something like 1200 people died in Egypt because of the terrorist groups operating in the country. Similarly, since the 2003 Riyadh attack Saudi has been cracking down hard on its domestic terrorists killing one hundred and imprisoning 800.

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Kansas: Have you seen any scholarly works on the personality/psychopathology of bin Laden that you have any degree of faith in?

Peter Bergen: I think the short answer is no.

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Falls Church, Va.: What would you imagine the general day-to-day environment OBL lives in today to be like? E.g. visitors, supplies, living conditions? So frequently we hear he's in places like "caves", etc. Is this your opinion?

Peter Bergen: This is an excellent question. I believe that OBL is not in a cave, but somewhere with amaenities such as newspapers and/or the Internet are available. In his last video his clothes were well pressed. Few caves are equipped with laundry facilities. I think he spends lot of time reading current affairs books/newspapers and also the Koran. he may be fasting twice a week and praying seven times a day. he is also eating little.

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Oakton, Va.: Do you feel writing this book has in any way endangered you?

Peter Bergen: No

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Philadelphia, Pa.: I presume there is no actual polling data available, but how popular/unpopular do you believe Osama Bin Laden is in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudia Arabia, Jordan, and in Syria?

Peter Bergen: Pew Trust did polling on this question in countries around the Muslim world in 2004. Easy to find on the internet.

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Columbia, Mo: What is OBL's conception of an ideal government institution in the Middle East? Is it correct that al queda prefers a reemergence of a caliphate? To follow up it seems to me that OBL is not interested in political power himself, is that accurate?

Peter Bergen: Yes, a caliphate of Taliban-style theocracies from Indonesia to Morocco is what OBL wants. I dont think that OBL is interested in FORMAL political power.

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Washington, DC: Did you see the NYPost Cindy Adams column with the estranged binladin family wife who is threatening to write a tell-all book, where she said that the family is secretly in contact with Osama and supports him?

Does this change your perception of the situation in any way?

Peter Bergen: The estranged wife carmen bin Laden wrote her book called Secrets of the Kingdom. she presented no evidence for the assertion that OBL's family is secretly in contact/supports OBL.

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Albuquerque, NM: Do you think that Al Qaeda was, at least initially, largely a fiction created by Bin Laden and Zawahiri to "rebrand" Egyptian Islamic Jihad as a pan-umma (to coin a phrase) group rather than just an Egyptian insurgent/terrorist group?

If this is so, is Bin Laden really just a figurehead being used by Zawahiri, and is the latter the true "brains" of the outfit?

Last question, do you think that the core challenge to defeating Al Qaeda is the discrediting the idea among the "Afghan Arabs" that they defeated the Soviets because of their faith and not because of the armaments the U.S. supplied? My strong recollection of the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan is that the Mujahaddeen were largely cowed and defeated by the Soviets using helicopter gunships until the CIA gave them thousands of Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, and it was these which ended the Soviet occupation by eliminating their ability to "own" the air.

Thanks,

Philippe Byrnes

Peter Bergen: Certainly EIJ was instrumental in the founding of al Qaeda. bu I dont think Ayman Zawahiri is OBLs'"brain". It's more complicated than that. they have had a symbiotoic relationship going back to 86. OBL gave AZ money and leadership skills. AZ gave OBL political ideas and experience of running a political organization.

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Trenton, NJ: Peter,When you were conducting research and interviewing for the book what was the overall impressions if any from those interviewed with respect to OBL's killing of fellow Muslims while carrying out his operations. Thank you.

Peter Bergen: One of the themes of the latter half of the book is how the 9/11 attacks are condemned by many of OBLs former friends and companions in arms, on the grounds that 9/11 was against Islam. Or that they were a tactical victory but a strategic dissater for jihadist movements around the world.

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Maryland: Were you scared when you interviewed OBL?

Peter Bergen: No

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Queens, NY: Would you characterize suicide bombers' dedication as being to their religion, or to Al Qaeda leaders such as Bin Laden? What I mean is, do they see Bin Laden as a holy entity, or just a fellow adherent?

Peter Bergen: Maybe a liitle of both. Fawaz Gerges has an interesting post on TPMCafe.com regarding the importance of charismatic leaders for the jihadists.

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USA: I study medieval Spanish literature and am currently not revising my dissertation because I'm reading your chat. My question:

OBL (and some of his associates) have made reference to the "tragedy of Andaluca" (the Christian reconquest of Spain, completed in 1492).

To what extent does that even still cause emotions and painful memories in the Arab/Muslim world today? Does that kind of rhetoric really stike a chord?

Peter Bergen: Abdullah Azzam also made refernce to the reclamation of Andalusia in the 1980s. I think it's rhetoric only. We have not seen jihadists fighting on the beaches on Majorca. Conversely, we have seen them fighting in many of the formerly Muslim-run lands of the former Soviet Union.

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Boston, Mass.: Everytime I hear one of the latest communiques that purport to be from Bin Laden, I have the distinct impression that they were written by Karl Rove to help the eternal Bush campaign. To what extent to experts outside of the US accept these communiques as authentic?

Peter Bergen: CIA and al Jazeera dont agree on much, but they do agree that every OBL commuique we have had since 9/11 is Kosher.

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Washington, DC: In your interaction with OBL in the 90's, did you ever get the sense that he was anxious for the kind of confrontation with the West that the US has launched since 9/11?

In that sense, would he have looked to the invasion of Iraq as more of an opportunity to promote his cause than a threat to the power structure that we claimed to be dismantling?

Peter Bergen: Iraq has reenergized al qaeda and its affiliates. OBL has taken pleasure in this.

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Springfield, Va.: It's odd that we've been unable to kill or capture either of the two main fugitives from the Afghanistan War: Bin Laden and Muhammad Omar, the former leader of the Taliban. Where do the experts believe Omar is hiding?

Peter Bergen: I believe he may be in Uruzgan, his home province in south-central Afghanistan. i have read elsewhere he might be in Baluchistan in western Pakistan. That is also plausible.

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Baltimore, Md: As someone who has studied and met with Osama Bin Laden, how would you describe his personality type from a psychological perspective. e.g. idealist, rational, guardian, etc..

Peter Bergen: non-psychotic, rational, ultra-religious.

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Jamaica, NY: When Bin Laden speaks of a truce, is he serious in any way? Or is it merely an attempt to exploit the political divide in the West (which is what it seems to be)? Is it conceivable that Bin Laden would ever genuinely support a truce?

Peter Bergen: In Islamic juripsrudence you should offer truces before you attack. So I think OBL is being somewhat seriosus in his offer, though he must know there is no possibility that we would take him up on his offer.

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Kalamazoo, Mich.: Peter,

What was USA's relationship with Osama during Afghan war - all before 9/11? Was there any connection with CIA?

Peter Bergen: The real story is that CIA had no idea of OBL's importance until the early-mid 90s.

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Jerusalem, Israel: Ehalan wa'sehalan, Mr. Bergen,

Where would you place the Shi'i stream of Islam on OBL's map of enemies/opponents/competitors? Under what conditions would OBL be willing to work together with Shi'i Moslems? And what was OBL's view of the Iranian revolution?

Shalom, Aryeh

Peter Bergen: OBL has rejected Zarqawi's calls for a civilian war with the Shia. While OBL may personally find the Shia to be heretics, he has never crticized Shais or Iran that I am aware of. I'm sure that OBL was a fan of Ayatollah Khomeni.

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