Outlook: Mother-Daughter Relationships

Deborah Tannen
Linguist/Author and Georgetown University Professor
Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:00 PM

Why is it that mother-daughter relationships so often ricochet between anger and affection? That's a question linguist Deborah Tannen asked herself as she was researching a book and helping to care for her dying mother. There is a special intensity to the mother-daughter relationship, she concludes, because talk - particularly talk about personal topics - plays a larger and more complex role in girls' and women's social lives than in boys' and men's.

Linguist, author and Georgetown University professor Deborah Tannen was online Tuesday, Jan. 24, at 2 p.m. ET to discuss her Sunday Outlook article, Oh, Mom. Oh, Honey , ( Post, Jan. 22, 2006 ).

Visit Deborah Tannen's Web site.

The transcript follows.

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Los Angeles, Calif.: Hi Deborah! I can't wait to read your book, I was able to associate with so many of your findings! I have two questions:

1. A friend and I were talking and we both want to show your Outlook piece, along with your new book, to our own mothers, but we're beyond fearful that they will think we're criticizing them for not having the "perfect wonderful mother-daughter relationship" they assume we have. (yes, my friend and I have compared notes, our mothers are exactly the same). Any thoughts on how to approach the subject with our moms?

2. In your research did you explore the traditional "Jewish mother's guilt syndrome" and the best way for a daughter to react, feel, or just plain deal with it?

Thank you for your thoughts!

Deborah Tannen: 1) I suggest you include a note (or a comment, if you hand the book over in person) saying all you cherish and value in her and in your relationship, and perhaps add that this book helped you understand and appreciate how great she is and how special your relationship is. You could add that it helped you understand her point of view. That way she'll feel like the book will reinforce her perspective, not teach her a lesson!

2) I assume you refer to the problem of daughters feeling that their mothers want more time and attention than the daughters can give, so they daughters feel guilty. I discuss in the book how this sometimes makes mothers emphasize their need and loneliness, which makes daughters pull away more, in a mutually aggravating spiral. I suggest that both try to break that cycle. Mothers could emphasize how happy they are, and how well things are going , and daughters could try to involve their mothers in ways they choose--ask for advice on topics that are not sensitive, invite her to come along when you do errands. And if she' making you feel bad, you could try telling her so. Most mothers react, Oh I didn't want to do that! (Though I can't guarantee she won't say 'What's Wrong with You?" Why are you so sensitive." It's worth a try.

More ideas in book, but I see it's 2 so I'd better send the replies I've written so far.

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Washington, D.C.: Just wanted to thank you for your piece on mothers & daughters--it PERFECTLY explains (in a balanced manner) the relationship between my mom and I...it's so refreshing to know that it isn't just the two of us who find it so difficult to communicate. Can't wait to read the book!

Deborah Tannen: Thanks. Again, this reminds me of the responses I got to You Just Don't Understand. It is comforting to know one is not alone. Also, I'm glad you perceived my analysis as balanced, since I try very hard to achieve that.

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Anonymous: It seems to me that this topic is being discussed from the daughters' points of view. Is there any discussion from the points of view and feelings of the mothers?

Deborah Tannen: I think the Washington Post excerpt ended up focusing more on the daughter's point of view, which I regret. The book absolutely shows both. Exactly as I struggled, in my book You Just Don't Understand, to fairly and accurately portray men's points of view as well as women's, I interviewed both mothers and daughters for this book, and read books by mothers as well as daughters. As I do say in the W. Post essay, for every example I give in any book, I always explain the logic of both parties--and work very hard to avoid making anyone wrong. People tell me they appreciate that in my other books. I hope if you read this one, you will feel I succeeded in this one too.

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Southern Maryland: Sorry, I missed your article on Sunday. But the subject on the discussion list made me stop to submit this.

My mother had 4 children (2 girls, 2 boys) from 1943 to 1955. She could not stand to be in the same room with her children. She never read to us, talked with us, showed any affection or humor whatsoever. She used to beat my older sister when she came home from dates, including her high school prom. She got married 2 months out of high school just to get away from home. I left home at 19 to get a job in DC and have supported myself ever since. Her favorite expressions: You're not too big to get slapped. Someday I'm going to walk out of here and never come back. I'll hit you so hard it will jar your grandmother. I hope that car isn't coming in this driveway. (Usually followed by: I came home from church and not a soul came to visit.) Get out of bed before I come in there and beat your behind.

Mom is now 79, a hypochondriac, loves the attention an illness gets her and milks it for all it's worth. My sister and I have moved AWAY and it's only the 2 boys to look after her now. It is not a joy to be around the old woman. She has not said a good word about our father since he died, and I think he was a saint for putting up with her for so long and not belting her in the chops.

I do not believe stretch marks confer sainthood. There are millions of mothers who have absolutely no business producing children. My therapist makes a career out of fixing what mothers did to their children. 'Nuf said.

Deborah Tannen: You make an important point. Eager not to romanticize mothers, I have a chapter in my book called The Dark Side, in which I discuss mothers who beat their children as well as less egregious forms of holding them back. Even the best mothers sometimes feel rage, jealousy or competition toward their children and express it. Your case sounds particularly egregious. I'm glad you were able to work this out with a therapist--which I'm not.

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Arlington, Va.: Your article certainly seems to describe valuable insights between mothers and daughters, and your writing is always engaging. I have to think, though, that you are off base in constraining your observations solely to female relationships. Fathers and sons experience the same relationship dynamics of the father trying to offer advice and the son feeling perpetually belittled. I wonder if you might not be over-interpreting your personal experiences with your mother as indicative of something uniquely female when in fact they are rich and meaningful exemplars of more universal human experiences.

Deborah Tannen: I'm glad you asked this because others have asked it too. As I say in the Introduction to the book, much of what I say is of course also true of mothers and sons, fathers and sons, fathers and daughters, as well as lovers, spouses, other relatives, and others. The reason I chose to focus this book on mothers and daughters had nothing at all to do with my relationship with me mother. The parent I was most attached to, and always intended to write a book about, is my father! The reason I chose to write this book was the response I got to my previous book, I Only Say This Because I Love You. That book is about all adult family relationships. In the interviews, talk shows, and letters I got in response to that book, it was overwhelmingly clear that the dyad that got the most attention, the one that people wanted to hear most about, the one everyone was asking me about, was mother-daughter. It grew out of my previous book in exactly the same way that my book You Just Don't Understand grew out of the one before that: That's Not What I Meant! That book had 9 chapters, of which one was about women and men--and that's the chapter everyone wanted to talk about. In this case, it wasn't even a whole chapter! The chapter was about mothers and children, plenty on sons as well as daughters. But there it was.

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Anonymous: I enjoyed your article. My mother and I have always fought. It was assumed that we would get along better later. Not- my mother is not a nice person and it is not my fault. The best I can do is to see her as sick and stay away. It's sad but true there is NOT always a happy ending and it is NOT always in one's best interest to get one.

Deborah Tannen: Of course you are right; there are situations in which a mother--or a daughter--needs to just say, I'd better keep away.

I do want to make the point that everything I say about mothers to daughters can also go the other way -- daughters who criticize their mothers about hair, weight and clothes, and of course how she raised her children! Daughters who expect more of mothers than of fathers, and are freer to show anger to mothers than to anyone else. Etc. etc.

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Reston, Va.: I read your article and heard you on NPR this morning--Guessing from the age of your mother, you are probably the age of my mother (I am 27). So, what about mothers (in their 50s) with daughters in their 20-30s. The lifestyles are no longer soo different between generations--or at least, not so mysterious. There still seems to be the same ol love-hate relationships between mothers/daughters...

Also, did you do any research about relationships between mothers and lesbian daughters?

Deborah Tannen: I'm 60, so I might be older than your mother! Although the cultural difference between my mother and me was extreme, not only because of her generation but also because she was born in Russia and didn't graduate from high school where I was born here and have a Phd, but also because of our temperaments (I was a bookworm and born analyzer, she was not introspective). However, luckily, my own examples are only a few of the many many I analyze in the book (!). The main themes seem to hold true for mothers and daughters of all ages and backgrounds -- the struggle to find the right blend of connection and impendence, closeness and distance, sameness and different; the double meaning of caring and criticizing; and so on.

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Mom and me: My mother has been dead almost 20 years. She died when I was in my early 20's and my 4 sisters were between 18 and 25.

I can find ANYTHING in any of my sister's kitchens because we all arrange our cupboards the same....just like Mom! Good thing....

Bad thing....I am at a healthy weight after many years of being overweight. My mother made a comment to me almost 30 years ago regarding my weight that still resonates with me....

Deborah Tannen: I am sorry you lost your mother at such a young age. You are lucky to have sisters Yes, many women tell me it is comforting to recognize their mothers in themselves, and also that a mother's remark can remain with them forever and sometimes influence major life decisions--and sometimes they remind their mothers many years later of her remark and she doesn't remember it and claims not to have meant anything by it.

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Ontario, Canada: In your research have you found any evidence of profound cultural idiosyncrasies? We are all familiar with the archetypical Jewish mothers and Presbyterian 'long-sufferers' but is there any truth in these stereotypes?

Deborah Tannen: I'm really glad you asked this. Several people who have read my book or essays based on it have commented that they assume most of the examples were of Jewish mothers. In fact, very few were. It made mr realize how widespread the stereotype of the "Jewish mother" is--and how unfounded.

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Anonymous: What advice do you have for husbands whose wives have up and down relationships with their moms?

Deborah Tannen: First of all, don't tell her to just forget it, that she should just let it go, that she's crazy to react so strongly, etc. One of the remarks I hear most often from women who read my book or articles is "I'm so glad to know I'm not crazy." Women always like to hear "I understand your reaction." After that, you could offer some of the insights from the article (or the book), like "it's criticizing, yes, but it's also caring," and "maybe she keeps repeating it because she feels powerless.." (use with caution, though. Harking back to You Just Don't Understand, many women get annoyed when men they love offer solutions when they just want understanding.)

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Pittsburgh, Pa.: I have found that my relationship with my mother has grown closer the older I get. We have always had a great relationship, but now (my mom is 75 and I am 46) I would describe us as the best of friends as much as mother and daughter. I'm sure it's due to maturity on my part, and maybe some mellowing on her part, but did you find that mother-daughter relationships seems improve/grow closer as both women aged?

Deborah Tannen: Not necessarily, so I'm glad yours did.

When women care for their mothers who become ill or frail, then I often hear that the mother mellows and the daughter finds that giving care creates love.

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Ontario, Canada: With the escalating change rate and proliferation in language, is there any evidence that mothers and daughters are becoming even more estranged?

Deborah Tannen: That's interesting. With a few exceptions, women I talked to said that they have better relationships with their daughters than they had with their mothers. It seems more and more common for daughters and mothers to refer to each other as their best friends -- something that I think was unheard of in my mother's day.

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Springfield, Va.: Loved the article, very enlightening...have you done any research on personality types and the mother/daughter connection? I have two daughters, 21 and 19, and find that the issues with each are different. The 21 year old rarely "butts heads" with me, while the 19 year old still does frequently. People have said that she and I are more alike in personality style. I disagree with that and find that I am more like my 21 year old. Does this really matter or is it more their age than anything else?

Deborah Tannen: Good point. I would guess it is mostly their personalities, as well as things such a birth order, the family's circumstances when they were born. etc. It is good to realize that a mother's relationship with each child is different, which I believe shows not only that each child is different but also that what happens in any relationship is the result of both individuals' styles and the way they interact. One mother I talked to said "I was a good mother for one of my daughters but not for the other." She was the same person, but she felt that one daughter's personality and temperament meshed well with hers, whereas the other's clashed.

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Another Pittsburgh Person: My mother seems to enjoy trying to play my sisters and me against each other. If she is upset at one, she'll try to get the others involved. We're all too old and too wise to feed into this obsession, but she still tries over and over again. There are only 3 of us. She was one of 6 sisters and I know her mother did the same to her. Is this common or do we suffer alone?

Deborah Tannen: It's common-- and not just for mothers. Think of girls talking on the phone incessantly about their friends, trying to get closer to one friend by bad-mouthing another, or by telling her that the friend bad-mouthed her! (In several books, including one called That's Not What I Meant!, I discuss how dangerous it is to repeat what others have said --and to take at face value what was repeated to you. I refer to an Arab proverb, "The one who repeats an insult is the one who is insulting you.")

This is not to say that all mothers do this. If "divide and conquer" is the watchword in some families, in other families, siblings constantly get together to talk against their mother--bonding through a common enemy.

I don't think any of this is necessarily destructive. Bonding between siblings can be good, even at the mother's expense, so long as none of them turns around and repeats what was said to the mother! Likewise, if a mother enjoys complaining about one child to another, it isn't all that bad so long as it stays between them.

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Washington, D.C.: What do you do about a mother who competes with you? Weight loss, my father's attention when I was growing up, vacations, who is feeling more sick when I am ill (she never feels well) - no matter if I have lost five lbs, then she or her husband or my brother or all three have lost more; if I am feeling sick (even when I have a fever of over 101) then her joints hurt and she didn't sleep well, etc. I am always the adult in our relationship and it has hurt some of my friendships working through that. I don't really want to be friends with her, I just want to find a way to deal with her where I don't have to break down and yell at her to get her to listen to me (which I did have to do while planning my wedding and no, she didn't pay for it, I did). Can you help with that?

Deborah Tannen: I can help if it is helpful to know that this is common. Though your mother may be extreme, many women told me that they feel their mothers are competitive with them. And competition for the father's affection is something I write about in the book quite a lot. Speaking personally, I never understood why my mother seemed jealous of my relationship with my father--until I was a guest in some friends' home, and saw that her teenage daughter entered the room where we all sat, made a beeline for her father, and stood by him, affectionately tousling his hair, as if her mother didn't exist. Suddenly I saw this from my friend's-- and my mother's--point of view. In my book I quote Phyllis Chesler, who writes eloquently of the fact that women are always on guard against being unseated by a younger woman, which, after all, her daughter is.

Moreover, fear of being left out plays a huge role in the social lives of girls and women, and that comes into play here too.

So I found that the degrees to which mothers were competitive with daughters varies greatly, but it seems to be present in all cases. When all else fails, I always suggest trying to step back, watch the interaction as an analyst, and think, "There it is again."

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Washington, D.C.: I read your article, and it resonated with me not because I have a lot of conflict with my mother (on the contrary, she's really great, supportive, loving, etc. toward my sister and I, but also completely objective when we ask/need her to be), but because you described only the bare minimum of what she had to deal with concerning her own mother to the point that she cut off all communication with both her parents for the sake of her own sanity, and only moved up to exchanging letters after a couple years of no communication at all.

Have you done any research how daughters who had/have a hard relationship with their mothers interact with their own daughters?

Deborah Tannen: Many mothers told me that they had terrible relationships with their own mothers but excellent ones with their daughters. Often these women said things like, "My mother always criticized me so I vowed not to do this with my daughter," or "My mother made it so obvious she preferred my brother to me, that I vowed to treat my children equally." It was encouraging to hear that the bad experience did not have to be passed on. This seems to have been the case with your mother, and I"m glad.

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Falls Church, Va.: Dr. Tannen,

Mother daughter relationships are contentious in all cultures. I remember a billboard for cooking oil in Malawi, Southern Africa, that said "Even mothers and daughters agree! Covo tastes best."

Why aren't father-son relationships so difficult?

Deborah Tannen: I love this! Thank you!

There certainly are many father-son relationships that are contentious, and several men have written (including on this chat) to say that much of what I say about mothers and daughters rings true for them. In general though I have found that the mother-daughter relationship can be more fraught, more intense, because both are women. A few key elements of women's styles that seem to be key:

girls' and women's friendships are based on talk, so mothers and daughter typically talk to each other more and about more personal topics. This brings them closer but also provides more opp. to say the wrong thing. Many mothers told me they get upset if their daughters don't call for a week, but don't even notice if their sons don't call.

girls and women tend to focus on closeness and distance, and to fear being left out. This makes it very hard for mothers when their daughters move away and do necessarily leave them out of their lives in many ways. (Boys' fear in contrast tends to be of being put down or pushed around.)

many women tell me that they sense and absorb their daughters' moods more than they do their sons'. "I know within a minute if she's down, and then I feel down."

those are a few of many points I develop in the book.

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Maryland: Do you found any differences between racial and ethnic groups on mother-daughter relationships?

Deborah Tannen:

I interviewed many African-American mothers and daughters as well as white women of various ethnic backgrounds and a few Asian-Americans. I did not find patterns that jumped out at me, and that's why, in my book, when I discuss an example I don't specify the ethnic or cultural background of the participants. Have you noticed patterns that I missed?

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Anonymous: Can you comment on daughters who find themselves "mothering" their mothers?

My mother went from her parents' house into her first marriage. She divorced and went back to her parents until she married my father. When he died, she didn't know how to take care of herself. I find myself having to do her finances. Every time I leave them to her, she comes to me crying that utilities are about to be shut off.

My mother won't drive to the county seat to visit the office on aging. Don't get me wrong. She's only in her mid-60's, not elderly by any means.

What is a daughter to do when she can't be a daughter?

By the way, my father became disabled when I was young, so I never really acted like a child. But, I assumed that once my father passed away, mother would no longer have to care for him and neither would I. I just didn't realize I'd have to care for her.

Very few women in my generation (30's) do not have careers and most are self-sufficient. Many in my mother's generation (60's) in this rural area were housewives and dependant on their husbands.

Deborah Tannen: A colleague of mine, Suzanna Walters, wrote a book about mothers and daughters in film. She made a point that when daughters take care of their mothers we should call it "daughtering," because it's what so many daughters so. I think many women find this to be true--and as you point out, it can start at any age. Psychologists use the term "parentified child," for a child who is expected to take a caretaking role. Many women find themselves in this role when their parents age, and they have varying degrees of resentment or appreciation of this. Statistics do show that when there are daughters and sons, it is daughters who usually take the role, not sons. This is one of many ways that more is expected of daughters than sons, and of mothers than fathers.

I'm not a psychologist, so I have no advice as to how to handle this if you feel it's unfair or unwanted, but I would think a psychologist might.

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Washington, D.C.: You've made me realize what a peach my mom is. She doesn't criticize, interfere, judge, manipulate, or complain about my not being around enough. She's not perfect, but she is really great. As a result, she has 4 adult kids who really like to get together at her house, along with the grandkids, and invite friends over to visit too. Good job, Mom!

Deborah Tannen: Bravo!

I hope that all the examples we have been discussing and that I write about in my book don't give the impression that I"m only writing about dysfunctional relationships. The typical comment I heard from women I write about is, "I adore my Mom, I love her more than anything--but she drives me crazy." It's the last part that I try to address, but I do not mean to ignore or dismiss the first.

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Deborah Tannen: Time's up. It's been great talking to all of you. I"m sorry I wasn't able to get to more of your queries and comments. Thank you for taking the time to participate.

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