K Street Confidential

K Street Confidential columnist Jeffrey Birnbaum was online at Noon ET, Monday, Feb. 6 to discuss lobbying legislation and the current state of the industry in Washington.

In today's column, 'Reform' May Still Depend On Abramoff , Birnbaum writes "Lobbying legislation will proceed one of two ways this year: a bidding war or a slow walk."

A transcript follows .

K Street Confidential appears every other Monday in the Washington Post business section.

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Jeffrey Birnbaum: Hello All!

Thanks for writing in.

There's a lot of discuss this morning. The intersection between government and the outside world is as busy as it's ever been.

So thank you for reading K Street Confidential, and let's get started.

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Long Beach: How long before things get back to normal?

Is it safe to say this is all a tempest in a teapot dome? Or do you expect permanent changes, like having to have a degreed caddie, so Congressmen can be "educated" while on the course

Jeffrey Birnbaum: I don't know about the golf analogy, but there will probably be changes in the way lobbyists work in Washington.

At the very least there will probably be some extra disclosure requirements. More paperwork for lobbyists, more information about what goes on behind-the-scenes for the rest of us.

Beyond that, it's all up in the air.

If Majority Leader Boehner gets his way, there will be less change than Speaker Hastert envisions.

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Washington, D.C.: With "proposed" tough new rules, won't it make it easier for established grey area (rule breaking cronyism) lobbyist to keep their programs in, while, "merit lobbying" will get killed as too risk if you aren't the lobbyist who drives the congressman around while he is in district?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: I don't think we can generalize.

All lobbyists make the case for their causes on the merits. Lawmakers need a reason to do things.

You may not believe the arguments of some lobbyists, and plenty of lobbyists with a good case to make augment their pitch with campaign contributions and the like.

But it's hard to know what arguments will win and which will lose based on what changes in lobbying regulations will be coming down the pike.

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LA, Calif.: If Abramoff declares a tit for tat arrangement for his dealings with Congress, and it is denied by those he implicates, and there is no paper trail or smoking gun, how can a conviction take place with a "he said, he didn't say" scenario?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: That's a lot of ifs.

So far, though, Abramoff has helped prosecutors with a ton of e-mails. That will help make the cases.

But you are right. Abramoff may not be the most persuasive witness and my guess is that prosecutors will need a lot of extra help to make a bribery case stick.

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LA, Calif.: Should the first part of reform be the requirement to have "educational" trips in more appropriate locations, other than ritzy country clubs? How can one study up on poverty at St. Andrews? Or on commerce by going to Pebble Beach?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Nice idea, but how would you define "appropriate."

Seminars can be held anywhere and usually are held either at a convenient spot or a warm one (at least in winter).

That's the trouble with a lot of these ideas. They are easier to envision than to make work.

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Long Beach: How about a law that requires PACS to be properly named and identified? It seems most of them are named in order to be intentionally misleading, or at least obscured.

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Again, the question is what is "properly."

One way, in this case, is to require any advertising to list donors rather than a group name that means nothing. "The Mothers and Apple Pie Coalition" wouldn't cut it under this scheme.

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McIntosh, Fla.: Couldn't Congress just make it illegal for staff or congresspeople to go to work for lobbyists and vice versa as a way to curb the excessive influence of lobbyists at the expense of the American people?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: I doubt it.

This is still America and people can work for whom they please.

Then again, a leading proposal in Congress would double to two years the amount of time that former congressional aides and lawmakers would be prevented from lobbying their old colleagues.

That's one big step in the direction you suggest.

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West Coast: Delay's replacement seems to be guilt free when it comes to partying with lobbyists, don't you think? He stated that the only reason he goes to golf courses is because that's where the seminars and get-togethers with lobbyists occur, all of them rich in educational content!

I also noticed he was very clear that when Delay gets acquitted in Texas, that a discussion would take place about the Majority leader position. IS THIS REFORM? IS IT ENOUGH?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Not for me to say.

But the voters surely will. And I know a couple Democrats who (metaphorically) leaped up from their seats and shouted "Hooray!" when Boehner gave those answers yesterday on TV.

The Democrats remember the House Bank Scandal of years ago when the Democratic leaders dealt lightly with the problem and the public not only objected but threw them out of the majority.

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Anonymous: The Center for Reponsible Politics did a study showing Tribal donations to Democrats went down after Abramoff was hired?

Will the Democrats use that as a defense or as Chris Wallace said a couple of weeks ago, are Democrats just as guilty as Repulicans?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Democrats will use that as an excuse and, so far at least, it's hard to see that Democrats are as deeply implicated in the Abramoff affair as are Republicans.

We have a long way to go on this issue, of course, but at the moment only Republicans have gotten into serious legal trouble thanks to the Abramoff investigation.

That could change. We will be watching--one way or the other.

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Washington, D.C.: Can anything really change without public campain finance?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Sure, things can change a lot short of that.

But I realzie there are a lot of experts-in-the-field who say that public campaign financing is the only way to "fix" the problem for good.

Folks who don't like government intervention say that full disclosure is another route.

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Washington, D.C.: As someone in the industry, it appears that 1/2 my colleagues are acting like nothing is wrong (at leats to clients)...the other 1/2 are saying no problem...In your opinion, who is right?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: I think your question is a little lost in translation, but I'll guess at your meaning.

The environment in Washington has changed at least for a little while.

Lobbying can't go on exactly as usual. How long that lasts, I think, depends on Abramoff.

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Orlando, Fla.: After long years volunteering on Capital Hill in support of McCain-Feingold, and concluding the ONLY effective Campaign Finance Reform will be a form of Public Financing, with a low personal max. contribution limit for non-corporate, individual worker/supporters, what will it "take" to put such proposals on-the-table, to stand any chance of passage in both Houses, with the President's signature? Anything else will become a "roadmap" for bypasses.

Robert, Retired to Florida

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Reps. Obey and Frank have made a similar proposal.

What will it take to pass it?

A different Congress.

A wider belief than now exists that taxpayers should fund politicians' runs for office.

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Marfa, Texas: Congress is a failed institution. Lobbying should be banned in all forms except one man, one vote. The American people should demand term limits on Congress. Congress has lost sight of its constitutional job description. Congress reminds me of the ole boys down at the local cafe every morning slamming and blasting after the fact - some folks call it "Saturday Morning Quarterbacking." That's Congress. Influence peddling by Lobbyists, the Fourth Branch of Government, runs our country. Ban big-moneyed, special interest lobbying and put Congress on the line and back to work representing its constitutents.

Jeffrey Birnbaum: This is a little extreme, I think.

The First Amendment protects lobbying. It will continue and, in my view, will only grow.

But voters can "throw the bums out" on election day--if that's the way they feel.

That's how the system works.

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Fairfax, Va.: Reporting on the K street story seems to focus mostly on the cops and robbers aspect and not that much on revealing the political benefits to the Republicans attaining and maintaining one party control of Congress. Can you give any insight for example into close congressional races in the last election that pro Republican K Street activity made a decisive difference?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: I think we'll focus on the impact of lobbyists and campaign contributions on the current election.

And you'll see a bunch of stories about that in the coming weeks and months.

I hope.

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Pasco, Wash.: Enjoyed your story a few weeks ago about the hundreds (thousands?) of meals purchased by Bell South lobbyists for various Congress folks. Any update on that story?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Not yet.

The whistleblower who gave us the list, Vicki Taylor, is on paid leave pending an investigation by BellSouth.

I am unaware of any staff changes or other changes at the company as a result of the story.

The story did, I think, give a push to the notion of an outright gift ban--at least for a moment.

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LA, Calif.: There seems to be one element of the Abramoff scandal that is under-reported. The funding he gave an Israeli Sniper School on the West Bank. Is this too hot of a topic, or what?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Nothing is too hot to look into.

If there's more to say, I'm sure the Post will say it.

My colleagues here have given the best coverage of the story, don't you think?

Thanks for the suggestion.

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Little Rock, Ark.: The statement in your article about lobbyists being necessary for people to keep in touch with their congressmen sounds hollow out here in the great middle. The symbiotic relationship between lawmakers and lobbyists is all about campaign money. Until the need for that is reduced (I favor restricting air-time) then any reform laws passed will be cosmetic.

Jeffrey Birnbaum: That's been my view as well.

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Zionist Occupied USA: The biggest lobby in the USA is AIPAC who have been accused of treason! Is the media afraid of being called anti-semitic for reporting on AIPAC? Isn't the media afraid to report on Super Zionist Jackoff Abramafia's ties to Operation 9/11. Google Jack Abramoff and Mohammed Atta!

Jeffrey Birnbaum: AIPAC isn't the biggest lobby.

I have written about AIPAC and will write more.

Two former employees of AIPAC have been accused of passing classified information. The organization isn't charged with anything.

Facts are important.

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Anonymous: I've read that restaurants close to the Capitol are complaing about lack of business. Is it really true that delivering free pizzas to staff working overtime is now verboten? Can you interview a few local pizza parlors to find out?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: I think in the House there's a pizza exception. But I love pizza and would look forward to interviewing as many pizza makers as I can.

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Midland, Mich.: The U.S.A. is not a democracy. It is a plutocracy. The 34,000 plus lobbyists in Washington D.C. earn $300,000 or more, and some up to $2 mil. Only for the rich and richer. Rich lobbyists, rich lobby firms, rich clients, and many rich people, and all getting richer thanks to Bush. The bottom line is - my vote doesn't count. because the lobby industry votes with big money when it lavishes favors and help on representatives.

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Your numbers are off (especially the $300,000) but there are a lot of people who feel what you're feeling.

One of the big questions of 2006 is whether there are enough folks who feel disenfranchised for there to be major changes in the makeup of Congress after the mid-term elections.

I'm not yet sure that's what's in store. Too early to know.

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Canal Fulton, Ohio: We have a right to redress our government, but we do not have a right to do it in private! Any and all conversations (verbal or in writing) from the citizens, lobbyist and corporations to or from our government, should be made in absolute sunshine. Using the excuse of unvarnished advice, on its face is corruption. I have no problem whatsoever of having my conversations or written communications made public. The only reason to do it in the dark is corrupt on its face. This would be the best fix, removing corruption from the system, all else is BS! Do you agree?

Duane

Jeffrey Birnbaum: I think that's a little ambitious.

I do agree that more disclosure about lobbyist meeting with lawmakers is a great idea.

That's also likely to happen this year.

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Sanibel, Fla.: With a ten to fifteen-to-one advantage over challengers in fundraising, largely fueled by lobbyists and corporations, House elections are already decided in all but a handful of House districts. Doesn't this mean that nothing much will change under John Boehner; that the lobby industry owns the House of Representatives?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Never say never.

There's the theory that you espouse but also the wave theory of elections.

Sometimes a wave washes out large blocs of Congress due to discontent with the status quo.

That's the question this year: Is there a wave forming in the countryside that will wash over DC?

Don't know yet.

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Anonymous: How do you address the earmark issue. Mr. Lewis made a great case about the UAV program coming from ads in RollCall...and body armour issue was addressed the same way...while Mr. Mcain's ads are never considered pork, but he lists all others as such.

Jeffrey Birnbaum: One person's pork is another person's project.

The "reforms" under consideration would at the very least require lawmakers to defend their projects in public and give other lawmakers the chance to excise them--something that isn't always possible nowadays.

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Los Angeles, Calif.: Did you ever catch any episodes of that HBO Soderbergh produced K Street? Was it true that the show got canceled because of pressure from Capitol Hill (i.e. that it peeled back the curtain just a little too much for the Senate's taste)?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: There might have been pressure. I don't know.

What I do know is that the series was unwatchable and didn't have much of an audience.

Those are two pretty good reasons for it to be cancelled.

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Midland, Mich.: There are 34,000 lobbyists in Washington, D.C. who assail 535 congressmen and senators every day for advancing their special interests. This is an average of 50 lobbyists. Every congressman represents on average about 500,000 constituents. Let's pass a law that for every hour spent with a lobbyist, the representatives must dedicate 10,000 hours to their constituents.

Jeffrey Birnbaum: That would be fun to watch.

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Minneapolis, Minn.: On Thursday, 36 senators sent a letter to Alberto Gonzales calling for him to appoint a special prosecutor in the Abramoff investigation.

Have there been any polls to see if the public wants a special prosecutor? Do you think the Post should conduct a poll?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Don't know about such a poll.

Maybe your question will inspire one.

Thanks.

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Fairfax, Va.: Do Republicans really think the electorate is so stupid as to believe that they are serious about not taking bribes from lobbyists? After all, some of these bribes, such as from the tobacco industry were handed out on the floor of the house by the new Republican majority leader. And, of course, we just saw the closed door bill reconciliation meeting (Democrat members locked out) in which lobbyists for the HMO Insurance Industry convinced (read "bribed") the no-Democrats- allowed reconciliation committee to restore $20 billion in excess payments to the Industry. Fresh manure hath a lesser stink.

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Bribe is a very dangerous term.

To accuse someone of that you need to have both the briber and the bribee intending to exchange an official favor for a gift of some sort.

Campaign funds aren't bribes, at least not usually.

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West Coast: Havng staff members crossing the aisle to work as lobbyists is alot like having assistant D.A.'s going into private practice after getting to know all the prosecutors and judges. Does that example muddy the distinction between what is fair and reasonable behavior? If the military stopped allowing their procurement officers to retire on Tuesday, and start work for Boeing or Lockheed on Wednesday, would that help?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: I sometimes wonder if anything would "help."

In an open society, people do what they want for the most part and that's that.

The great thing about our system of government is voters can look at what's been happening and decide whether they like it or not.

Lawmakers can be voted into office--and out of it.

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Anonymous: How is it that the Lobbyist are so bad? Shouldn't the burden be on Congress? I make my own decisions, or do we elect so weak people that they get sucked in to some crazy scheme...and what does a lobbyist make if not $300K

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Lobbyists have salaries that range all over the lot.

And your view of lawmakers . . . a lot of lobbyists are wondering why lobbyists are the bad guys and not members of Congress, too.

Lobbyists worry that lawmakers will scapegoat them and do little to punish themselves.

Probably not a bad guess.

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VA: Have you see http://www.kstreetproject.com/?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: yup

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Anonymous: How does Wal-Mart lobby? Do they have their own firm for that, or do they employ a K street firm?

Also, considering the four Walton heirs (now 3) are worth over 20 billion apiece, should they start giving out some dough for displaced workers, to create some GOODWILL in the manner of Bill Gates?

Wouldn't that be more effective than lobbying or creating phony advertising campaigns where everything is grand in Wall-Mart land?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Wal-Mart has a lobbying office in Washington and contract lobbyists, too.

As for how the heirs spend their money, that's up to them.

The company is what's at issue here, separate from the family founders of the firm.

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Arlington, Va.: Michigan wrote:

"The U.S.A. is not a democracy. It is a plutocracy. The 34,000 plus lobbyists in Washington D.C. earn $300,000 or more, and some up to $2 mil. Only for the rich and richer."

I guess I have to tell my boss they are underpaying me by $230K. Here is the perfect example of people 1000K miles away trying to talk about what happens in DC and the lobbying community. He/she showed they don't know what they are talking about!

Jeffrey Birnbaum: You two can go at it if you wish.

I present your answer as a public service (sort of).

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Columbus, Ohio: What are the reporting/disclosure requirements, if any, when a lobbyist meets with or gives gifts to a Federal official (member of Congress, administration official, etc)? Does the public official need to disclose it? Does the lobbyist? Or both? Why or why not?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: There are lots and lots of rules.

Lawmakers have to disclose when they take privately paid travel.

There is no disclosure on routine gifts, though lawmakers are supposed to abide by limits--$49.99 at a sitting and $99.99 for a year from the same source.

Those gift limits are routinely broken in part because the ethics committees either don't or can't enforce them.

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Vienna, Va.: Do you know off hand how many lobbying agencies are run by former congressmen or Government employees?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Not off hand, but there are more and more every year.

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Alexandria, Va.: Mr. Birnbaum,

You have repeatedly stated your conservative, Pro-Republican position in justifying the use of money to purchase legislation, but you seem to only support this practice when it is done to further the Right-Wing political agenda. Why should your readers believe that you can impartially discuss the corrupting influence of vote-buying?

Many thanks.

Jeffrey Birnbaum: You are the first and only person to guess at my political leanings in these chats.

I would be surprised if other people share your view of my views.

I try not to take sides, especially partisan sides.

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Long Beach, Calif.: Re: these "educational trips"... they are UNNEEDED. We have web conferencing, power point, live audio and video feeds, sat phones and sat video - there is no need for any congressman to EVER leave the US for fact finding. They can do it allll from a conference room outfitted with the typical gov't presentation package... and for those who don't know it - that means up to and including live black ops satellite images.

There is NO need for trips or PAID lobbiests.

Why is the MSM missing this technical reality? Thanks!

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Well, I don't think everyone agrees with you.

I certainly prefer meeting people in person. That leads to better communication.

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Anonymous: Have you ever attended seminars for lobbyists? There seems to be a code for lobbyists, right?

I eavesdropped on a group of lobbyists at a D.C. hotel I stayed at in August 2001, and recall the leader stating that it's important not to thank too profusely for past favors, as that allows the Congressman or staff member a way out of accepting new requests for assistance.

What other unwritten rules exist?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: One is, stop talking when the lawmaker's eyes glaze over.

Then there's the "elevator rule." A pitch shouldn't last longer than an elevator ride.

These aren't secret meetings. Lots of people come from the states to meet with their lawmakers and are "trained" by Washington lobbyists how best to make the case for their causes.

It happens every day of the week in DC.

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Long Beach, Calif.: Are you in support of having some sort of aptitude test for Federal office holders? Surely that would be a good inclusion in a publically funded election format?

Imagine the excitement of having one of the presidential debates set up like Jeopardy?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Sounds a little too heavy handed to me.

Maybe a lot too heavy handed.

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underpaying me by $230K: Which means you are still in the top 25% of income earners in the US.

I doubt those dim unwashed out in the hinterlands are going to break down in tears over your plight.

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Now let's play nice.

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Washington, DC: The people who are portraying supposedly well-heeled lobbyists as the "problem" may also want to consider that not all lobbyists represent wealthy private interests. I don't have the money to hire my own lobbyist or the time to communicate constantly with Congress about issues I care about. (Nor any voting representation in the national legislature, but that's another matter.) But I do support organizations that lobby on issues that matter to me. In the scramble to jump on the "reform" bandwagon, we should take care to adopt measures that truly open the process up. Money shouldn't be able to buy special access, but changes designed to curb abuses may also curtail genuine public interest lobbying.

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Thank you for your comments.

Lobbying is a more complicated issue that the rhetoric often allows.

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I certainly prefer meeting people in person: Yep. Astoundingly, there are just tons of conference rooms and centers in the DC metropolitan area designed for just this purpose. No need for an all expense paid trip to the Breckenridge.

Spare me.

Jeffrey Birnbaum: I wasn't defending trips to warm places.

I was just saying that meetings happen, and, I guess, asking the question, why shouldn't they?

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Washington, D.C.: Do you really think the DEMS are that differant from REP? Not withstanding Delay and the Duke, didn't Trafficant tell us all what evryone on Capitol Hill does? I see the same congressman with the same lobbyist at all the same resturaunts everytime I go out to eat...all the while virtually ignoring the rest of us, laughing at the rules.

Jeffrey Birnbaum: You are not alone seeing such sights.

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Anonymous: Face to face meetings with lobbyists seem to be reasonable activities. Going to Pebble Beach or to St.Andrews appear to be thinly veiled luxury vacations. Shouldn't we simply force lobbyists to stop organizing events at luxury country clubs?

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Define country club and you have a chance.

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Port Townsend, Wash.: So, say Abramoff was, say, on George W. Bush's transition team in the say, Interior Department. Would you, say, think that maybe he had something to do with, say, he Interior Department as the Washington Post reported.

Would one be lead to consider the idea that maybe, say, he was known at the Iterior Department.

Could someone, maybe, tell the White House.

Jeffrey Birnbaum: You just did.

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Rochester, N.Y.: Someone asked earlier about a independent prosecutors. What do you think the odds are that Gonzales will be forced to appoint a special prosecutor for the Abramoff mess?

It seems a bit fishy as is, with Noel Hillman being taken off the case and recess appointee (and alleged friend of the DeLay defense team) Alice Fisher the big boss of the operation.

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Don't know.

But I haven't heard much serious talk about taking the case away from the Justice Department.

I hear the lawyers on the case are among the very best that the department has.

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Long Beach, Calif.: THANKS FOR THE CHAT, It was a good one. Stellar, in fact!!!!

Jeffrey Birnbaum: Many thanks!

And thanks everyone for writing in.

Let's do it again in a couple weeks.

Cheers!

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