Transcript

Spotsylvania Deputies Receive Sex Services in Prostitution Cases

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Jon B. Gould
Associate Professor and Acting Director, Administration of Justice Program, Department of Public and International Affairs and School of Law, George Mason University
Monday, February 13, 2006; 12:30 PM

In Spotsylvania County, as part of a campaign by the sheriff's office to root out prostitution in the massage parlor business, detectives have been receiving sexual services from "masseuses." During several visits to Moon Spa on Plank Road last month, detectives allowed women to perform sexual acts on them on four occasions and once left a $350 tip, according to court papers.

Read More: "Spotsylvania Deputies Receive Sex Services in Prostitution Cases"

Jon B. Gould, a criminal law professor at George Mason University, was online Monday, Feb. 13, at 12:30 p.m. ET to field questions and comments about the possible legal ramifications of deputies receiving sex services in prostitution cases.

The transcript follows.

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Jon B. Gould: Hello, and thank you to The Washington Post for having me here today. I look forward to our discussion this afternoon on an unusual case.

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Arlington, Va.: In what other ways can prostitution be proved without law enforcement going as far as to receive sexual favors? Where should the line be?

Jon B. Gould: In almost any prostitution case -- especially the ones you would see on "COPs" or other similar TV shows -- officers can usually arrest and prosecute on solicitation, which does not require the payment for, and receipt of, sexual favors.

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Chantilly, Va.: Prof. Gould: This strikes me as one of the most moronic uses of taxpayer money I've ever heard of.

For example, can you imagine the field day defense attorneys would have with the officers on the stand? If these charges are not dropped I really hope none of the women plead out so the cases have to go to trial.

Jon B. Gould: Yes, this is a dubious use of taxpayer money, but an interesting question is how far removed this is from undercover drug stings, where officers use funds to buy drugs. If the arrest is made quickly enough in either case, the funds can often be recovered. There is also sometimes the opportunity to fine defendants or recoup funds otherwise. However, I think the uproar in this case is not the use of taxpayer funds but the fact that the officers "benefited" themselves.

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Potomac: As a career journalist, I posed the question about cops actually having sex to nab massage parlor/escort/prostitutes/whatever and whether that was legal--several times during my career. And the question was asked to police officials, government officials, lawyers, legal experts, social and moral officials, and others. The overwhelmingly universal response--if not a 100 percent response (I just can't remember the results exactly)--was that cops should NOT be having sex to nab anyone; that no police or government or law enforcement official should ever approve such actions; and that such actions by police officers are illegal. Any official and/or officer who actually has sex in pursuit of a prostitute, massage parlor prostitute or escort should be reprimanded and/or suspended, most officials thought. It's just ridiculous.

And here's another view, as already expressed by several politicians: Police officers, anywhere, should be out spending their time, resources, money and skills on far more important issues that having sex to nab massage parlor workers. For god's sake, their time would be better spent sitting on the side of a road as a speed deterrent than such idiocy.

And that applies to every single police department in the country: spend your time in more useful pursuits. It's all just complete stupidity.

Jon B. Gould: The second part of your question is really a policy issue that society still struggles with -- is prostitution a "victimless" crime or not, how much of a priority should its eradication be, etc.

I think you're right about the first part. Prostitutes, pimps, madams, etc. can almost always be nabbed without officers actually engaging in sex (and with public funds no less).

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Harrisburg, Pa.: Last week, there was a discussion on human trafficking and how are forced from one country to go into prostitution in another country, including the United States. Are local police in any way alert to investigation the potential of human trafficking and in cooperating with federal or Interpol on alerting when massage parlors with foreign women may potentially be engaged in more sinister crimes such as abduction and abuse?

Jon B. Gould: Good question. Yes, PBS had this series last week. Prostitution is an international problem, although it's difficult to say what percentage of any locality's prostitutes are trafficked. A short answer is that local law enforcement cooperates with national and international authorities when asked or when they think they're on to a larger problem.

washingtonpost.com:

Discussion Transcript: PBS Frontline: 'Sex Slaves' (Feb. 8)

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Disgusting!: And cops seriously wonder why people don't respect them? What is their problem? I can't believe that my tax money is going to pay someone who is going to "massage" parlors during his time at work. YUCK!

What will be done to reprimand these officers? I got the feeling from the article that their superiors believed what they were doing was "in the line of duty". This doesn't make sense because they kept going back!! It saddens me to know that police are not held to the same laws we are.

Jon B. Gould: It's quite possible that Spotsylvania County's leaders may change their tune if there is an outcry. My hunch is that most taxpayers are happy to see the police root out prostitution but blanch (your "yuck" factor) when officers seem to partake in the activity themselves.

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Falls Church, Va.: He noted that such a negotiation isn't too difficult because "there aren't a lot of Phi Beta Kappas in that field."

What does this mean????

Jon B. Gould: I believe it was a comment about the brainpower of those involved in prostitution. Research suggests, however, that there are all types of prostitutes.

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Arlington, Va.: So, have they managed to get any convictions in Spotsylvania out of this project? Or is it just a program for the deputies to get their jollies at taxpayer expense?

Jon B. Gould: I'm unaware of the state of the cases. Again, I think the flavor of people's responses here shows why this has become a story. It's not so much the use of taxpayer money to investigate and eradicate a crime. It's that officers seem to have participated in that crime, or at least benefited in some way.

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Washington, D.C.: Here is perhaps a point to use to clarify the issue: What if this was a gay prostitution ring. Would the police have "benefited" from the prostitutes?

Jon B. Gould: Depends on the officer. Police certainly have ways to investigate and prosecute prostitution without engaging in the very acts themselves.

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Washington, D.C.: What could happen legally to a police officer caught receiving sexual favors on the job? Is it technically illegal? Is there a precedent for this?

Jon B. Gould: An excellent question. This is an issue that will surely be litigated (and has in other areas with mixed results). It's unclear what will happen.

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Rockville, Md.: They will be lucky to keep their jobs. I cannot remember anything more self serving.

Jon B. Gould: Although many of us can probably think of instances in which politicians or business people have swindled others for their own benefit, the issue here seems to be those sworn to uphold the law participating in -- and presumably enjoying -- the very acts they're seeking to eliminate.

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Centreville, Va.: I'm wondering if all these cops also take heroin, crack and other assorted drugs to catch drug dealers? I'm sure not, but it's ok to sample the goods on prostitutes ....

Jon B. Gould: I hope that's tongue in cheek. The fact that we're even talking about this case is a sign of how rare it is. Some (much) earlier research of vice cops indicated that they sometimes use prostitutes, but it is rare to see that fact openly acknowledged in court.

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Washington, D.C.: So, when the officers come down with herpes or whatever else they caught during this "investigation," are the tax payers on the hook for their workers' comp claim too? No one from Spotsylvania should ever again complain about the District's bad fiscal governance.

Jon B. Gould: That sounds like a great exam question for my students.

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Arlington, Va.: Where is the line drawn in determining entrapment? I thought about it during ABSCAM when undercover police set out to see if people were bribable. I make the presumption that this is based upon the theory that everyone has a price -- if you go high enough.

A long while ago, I worked for Macy's in New York which was trying to break the fair trade law on liquor prices by asking dealers for discounts from these prices and, upon getting them, hustling back to the Big Store to write them up and sign affidavits to that effect. But they wouldn't have violated the law unless I asked them to!

Jon B. Gould: This is actually a little different from entrapment, the latter being a standard defense in prostitution cases. Officers almost always try to get suspects to incriminate themselves without it appearing that the suspect engaged in something he would not otherwise have wanted to do. Here, the issue seems to be whether officers actually had to engage in sex to prove that the prostitutes were, in fact, engaged in prostitution.

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Washington, D.C.: In the absence of a clear verbal acknowledgement from the sex worker that she's accepting payment in exchange for a sex act, how does one prove that said exchange would take place without engaging in said act?

Jon B. Gould: This is the key issue. An experienced or well-coached prostitute will rarely offer outright that s/he is willing to engage in a sex act for money. It's a verbal negotiation, which requires a fine line for the officer. S/he doesn't want to entrap the suspect, but s/he needs evidence that the suspect is offering sex for money.

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Anonymous: Can taxpayers recover their money from the massage parlor upon conviction?

Jon B. Gould: A fine would certainly be appropriate. In some cases, the law provides for the forfeiture of assets gained from the criminal enterprise.

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USA: Why not go after the "customers" instead of the prostitutes? That always seemed more reasonable to me, assuming that we're going to worry about it at all.

Jon B. Gould: Your point is at the center of much the discussion of prostitution and its enforcement. The same is true of drug crimes, where our society tends to prosecute the suppliers and not the users. Some communities have taken to publishing the mug shots of defendants arrested for solicitation, on the theory that it will shame them into not participating again.

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Philadelphia, Pa.: By this logic, a police officer would have to use heroin before arresting a heroin dealer? I thought the crime was committed once the money changed hands with the expressed intent of a criminal act. Am I wrong on this in your state?

Jon B. Gould: Prostitutes can be prosecuted for "solicitation," which does not usually require that money change hands. Nor does it require that the offered services be provided.

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Anonymous: Wouldn't one special visit be enough to arrest someone? Doesn't the multiple visits undermine their credibility somewhat?

Jon B. Gould: My understanding of the case (and this comes second-hand) is that officers were seeking to justify a search warrant of the premises. I would think that two visits should have sufficed to prove an ongoing enterprise.

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Germantown, Md.: As I have always understood it, a prostitute is someone who gets paid to have sex. If the police are doing this as part of their (paid) job, doesn't that make them prostitutes?

Jon B. Gould: By this definition, "prostitution" extends far into the reaches of the business, political, and sports worlds. Prostitutes, of course, offer sexual favors for compensation.

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Boston, Mass.: I was utterly appalled by the actions of the police officers in this article. What were they thinking??!! Why don't law enforcement officials shift their focus to the real criminals in these cases, the pimps and johns? This case indicates to me that these officers have no intention have holding the men who visit prostitutes responsible for committing a crime. Instead these officers participate (committed criminal acts in fact) in a system that continues to victimize and punish women.

Jon B. Gould: This is an excellent example of one side of the prostitution debate, the poster claiming that prostitution is not a victimless crime but instead harms the prostitutes (who are almost always women). Certainly, Spotsylvania County is trying to eradicate prostitution -- why else would they go to court to get a search warrant for the premises? But the officers' willingness to engage in sexual activity with the prostitutes may well cast doubts on their motives.

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Manassas, Va.: Have any of these detectives admitted to having received sexual favors?

Jon B. Gould: My understanding is that officers sought a warrant to search the premises, and that in doing so they acknowledged what they had done. I am unaware of whether they identified themselves individually. My guess is that with all of the controversy that has unfolded, those officers will soon be questioned by officials in the county.

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Washington, D.C.: Could you explain the legal definition of entrapment.

And I think most people are more concerned about potential sexual predators (as seen on Dateline) than prostitutes.

Jon B. Gould: In a nutshell, entrapment is when law enforcement officers persuade a suspect to engage in a crime he would not have thought to do otherwise.

The other part of this poster's question illustrates another perspective on prostitution -- in short, that while it may be problematic, law enforcement resources are better placed elsewhere.

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Really happy ending: From the article . . . During several visits to Moon Spa on Plank Road last month, detectives allowed women to perform sexual acts on them on four occasions and once left a $350 tip, according to court papers.

A $350 tip?! How was excessively tipping the girl after services were rendered going to help to further the arrest?

Jon B. Gould: Clearly, it wasn't. This is among the reasons why people wonder whether the officers were truly interested in busting up the prostitution business or whether they had other motives as well.

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Falls Church, Va.: re: going after the pimps & johns - usually you have to arrest/incarcerate the girls and then get them to flip on the pimp or madam, right?

Jon B. Gould: Not necessarily. Police often use sting operations with officers posing as prostitutes. (These are the cases you usually see on "COPs" and other TV shows.)

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anonymous: What if one of those prostitutes were underage? Would that change the legal case?

Jon B. Gould: An interesting question. It would likely turn on whether the officer knew or had reason to believe the prostitute was so young. It would be difficult to imagine an officer doing so -- and almost impossible to believe such an officer would acknowledge as much in a court filing.

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Washington, D.C.: Boston was slightly off: The article stated that two owners (presumably "pimps" themselves) were arrested. In fact, I'd imagine most massage parlor case would involve arrests and/or fines for the owners as well; much easier than trying to get a street hooker to give up the identity of her pimp.

Jon B. Gould: It's often difficult to get a suspect to implicate a co-defendant, regardless of the case. In prostitution the challenge is even greater because prostitutes often depend upon pimps or madams to help generate their business.

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Springfield, Va.: Besides entrapment, which based on your legal definition, may or may not be the case here, what is the legal determination when one crime begets another? What I mean is how can you prosecute the prostitute in the massage parlor for her "crime" when the cop basically committed a crime as well? Are there any precedents for that?

Jon B. Gould: We don't know whether the prostitutes were entrapped here, although at least initially it does not sound like they were. The second half of your question is central to this case, and an issue that will likely end up in litigation: should the state be able to prosecute a defendant for a crime when police officers fully participated in that crime with her? There is an analogy here to drug deals (where an officer or informant buys drugs), but what makes this case different is that officers fully participated. One does not usually hear in a drug deal that officers bought cocaine and then used it themselves.

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Washington, D.C.: I am deeply concerned by those police officers who "volunteered" to participate. When officers start following "the ends justify the means" philosophy, issues such as planting evidence, forced admissions of guilt and vigilantism (is that a word?) seem all to plausible.

Jon B. Gould: Yes, there definitely seems to be a moral question here. In terms of the "ends justifying the means," we see these kinds of questions everyday in law and justice. The debate over the Patriot Act's extension is an example.

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New York, N.Y.: Prof Gould,

Here's an idea for the knuckleheads in Spotsylvania: next time send in a mole to work together with the prostitutes. That way, the police really could clean house. And the mole would determine whether it was necessary to provide any "extra" services to clients so as to keep her/his cover.

Jon B. Gould: An interesting idea, but who is going to volunteer for that duty? Being a prostitute is a horrible existence.

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Silver Spring, Md.: Yes, it is hard to prosecute prostitution, but whoever OK'ed this stuff was actually out of their mind! This kind of story has come out before, although the one I was thinking about was only "massage", and has always been a black eye for the police. Talk about a lack of "Phi Beta Kappas" in the prostitution business! There appear to be a few "non-betas" in the PD, too, I'm afraid. Sorry guys, but this isn't working.

Jon B. Gould: If memory serves, Gene Weingarten of the Washington Post published a story a few years ago in which he went to a massage parlor. Although Weingarten is a humorist, one did not have to read too much between the lines to see where it's possible to prosecute these cases without the officers engaging in sex with the suspects.

washingtonpost.com: Below the Beltway (Post Magazine, Sept. 2, 2001) 

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New York, N.Y.: Prof. Gould

Forgive the indecency of my question, but what actually defines "sexual service"? Isn't a massage somewhat sexual?

Jon B. Gould: That's actually a good question. Our legislators define the prohibited activities by statute. Massages usually do not count. A simple Web search will give you the definition.

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Springfield, Va.: Is there any confirmation that these were real undercover investigations? It's possible that the deputies were just getting freebies from the local madam and made up this story when word got out.

Jon B. Gould: Again, my understanding is that the officers filed an application for a search warrant. It's always possible that officers created an investigation after the fact, but it seems highly unlikely.

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Prof. Gould:: If you had to represent the police officers or the police department in this case, what would your defense be?

Jon B. Gould: The likely defense would be what's been offered in other cases -- because it's difficult to prove solicitation in some cases, officers had to go through with the act to prove the defendant's intent. This may well win in a court of law, but I think it fails in the court of public opinion.

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RHE redux: RHE above got it right, I extensively researched this for a grad school social health paper a couple of years ago. That amount of tip is far above the going rate at these places (which info is freely available at message boards on the web). Giving that much betrays either a great deal of ignorance or there's something else going on.

Second, at many of these places the workers are scared enough of law enforcement that you have to be a repeat customer of a legal service before you can get the illegal service. The thought of cops being repeat customers in the hope that this is the day her hands get friskier is sad at the very least.

Jon B. Gould: Good points, but your second point would be an argument for why officers needed to do what they did. If one believes illegal activity was going on but it was not offered at the first visit, then officers would reasonably go back. Think, again, of a suspected drug deal, where officers may go back several times to catch the defendant in the act of dealing. What's different here, as we've all been saying, is that officers fully participated in the illegal activity.

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Silver Spring, Md.: Thanks for pointing out that aggressive and public exposure and prosecution of "johns" is and general harassment of houses is a much better way to control prostitution. In this case the PD has gotten way out of line, spent a lot of money, and made a big mess to prosecute a couple of girls and their pimps. You think there aren't quite a few ready to take their place?

Jon B. Gould: Without knowing more, it's difficult to say what kind of prostitution outfit this was. If it were your sister/friend, would you want the activity stopped? That said, you're exactly right that prostitution seems to be a crime with a never-ending supply of participants and victims.

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Jon B. Gould: Thank you all for a lively discussion. It will be interesting to see how this case progresses.

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