A Job for Laura Bush

The Post's Sally Quinn was online Friday, March 24, at 3 p.m. ET to discuss her Friday Style section article about the First Lady's influence on President Bush.

From The Post:

From Her Lips to His Ear (Post, March 24)

The transcript follows.

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Sally Quinn: Hi everyone. Thanks for joining me today. I've been thinking about doing this story since a month or so ago when I was at a small dinner at the White House. I had a chance to talk to Laura Bush at some length and was impressed by how smart and how astute she was. I know what happens in a second administration. Things always go bad. Finally there is nobody to tell the President the truth except for his wife. So I'll be interested in answering your questions.

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Mt. Morris, Mich.: This is not a question, but a comment. It seems ludicrous to think "from her lips to his ear" is important. It appears to me that both are strong personalities who communicate constantly with each other.

Sally Quinn: I'm sure they do communicate constantly with each other. But that is not what I'm talking about. There is a moment when she must take action. The way Nancy Reagan did. Of course she was giving her opinions all along. But finally she stepped in and made her feelings known so strongly that the President realized he needed to make changes.

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Alexandria, Va.: Sally: Your politics and that of your husband are well known. How can your readers be re-assured that you can be fair in writing about a Republican?

Sally Quinn: I'm fascinated that my husband's politics are well known since I personally don't know what they are. Ben is totally apolitical. In the morning at breakfast time when I'm screaming and yelling over various stories he'll say to me, "Is there anything you don't have an opinion about?" and I reply, "Is there anything you do have an opinion about." I'm a registered democrat but I would be an independent if you could vote in the DC primaries. My parents were conservative Republicans. My father was a General in the Army. Their best friend was Barry Goldwater who actually lived with them. My father and Barry were the two most decent and patriotic men I have ever known. As a journalist I don't think you can survive very long if you're not fair and if you don't keep an open mind.

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Fairfax, Va.: Thank you for a great piece today- we can only hope that a least some of what you suggest passes from the First Lady to the President. Do you think a change in the Chief of Staff position will have any effect on what seems to be the real administration power structure- Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld, who clearly seem to be fixtures in the Administration?

Sally Quinn: I do think the Chief of Staff position is and can be extremely influential. As I mentioned in my piece, Andy Card is one of the most popular people in Washington. But he has been part of that team for a long time. There is some thought that he is interested in the job of Secretary of the Treasury. If, as one of my republican sources suggested, they brought in a real s.o.b. for that job, he would bring in new ideas. I don't see Cheney, Rice or Rumsfeld going anywhere any time soon. Although Rumsfeld has repeatedly said that he has offered his resignation to the President. Who knows how long he might want to stay on.

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Ft. Myers, Fla.: There have been many reports that Laura Bush is a smoker. Is she?

Sally Quinn: She used to be a smoker. I'm not sure about now. Maybe she sneaks out on the balcony from time to time for a hit. We may never know.

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Savannah, Ga.: Sally: I was a year behind Laura at SMU and liked her as far as our acquaintance went. When did she have her first face-lift and was it full or partial. Has it been refreshed? Did the Republican Party pay for it as I have heard or private funds?

Pres. Bush appears to be very dependent on her and when away from her very insecure, especially in his public addresses. In fact he seems distracted unless she is there. Is this an accurate read or just a false impression from his careless and bumbling "delivery-style"?

Sally Quinn: I have to admit that Laura Bush looks really great but if she's had a face lift I've never heard about it. She must have been very discreet. If you find out let me know. I have a lot of friends who would be interested. Me too.

I think her husband is very dependent on her which I find endearing. He does seem to look to her for approval and seems more confident when she is around. As far as his language is concerned, I have a son who is dyslexic and sometimes uses phrases inappropriately or his syntax is backwards. I've always felt that George Bush has some sort of mild dyslexia or learning disability because he talks like Quinn.

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Buffalo, N.Y.: I know that you live in your own little bubble there in DC, but when you say

"Remember, it's your legacy, too"

you can't be any more out of touch with what americans think about first ladies. We don't live in the 1950's any longer. Betty Ford has her own legacy. Hillary Clinton will have her own legacy. We don't see wives as extensions of husbands any longer. They are their own people. Laura Bush has done quite a bit on her own and will be remembered for her own life and work.

Sally Quinn: I agree that Laura Bush is a person in her own right. But any spouse in the White House, and up until now it's been only women, does take second place to her husband. She is there for only one reason and that is because he got elected. But she does have tremendous influence on him and ultimately on the policies and the country. Look at Nancy Reagan. She is one of the people most responsible for our rapprochement with the Soviet Union. And she did shake up the White House, bringing in new people, turning the polls around and ultimately making the President more effective. As David Gergen pointed out in my piece, when you don't have the polls with you you can't make the tough calls. So I think that part of any first lady's legacy is what kind of influence she had on her husband.

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Adams Morgan, Washington, D.C.: I am a Laura Bush fan and am not a supporter of President Bush's policies.

I think Mrs. Bush already may be giving substantial advice to her husband. After the Hillary Clinton years, however, Americans are prickly about the unelected First Lady having a say-so in policy. Hence, even if Mrs. Bush is giving her husband suggestions, we likely will never hear about it while he's in office.

Sally Quinn: I think you're right that the public perception of a first lady's role in the White House is a tricky one to maneuver. Obviously she can't seem to be running the country. She wasn't elected after all. But tell me a wife who doesn't advise her husband particularly when he is in trouble. I'll bet if Laura Bush steps up to the plate along about now, we'll hear of it before long.

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New York, N.Y.: I think your piece should have been directed towards Lynn Cheney. Her husband is the one running the country. The President just lives in his house.

Sally Quinn: Lynne Cheney is indeed formidable and it does appear that Dick Cheney has more power than any Vice President I can remember. I would think at some point, if Cheney has as much power as everyone says, that George Bush or Laura might decide that's not the perception they want the public to have. Stay tuned.

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Essex, Md., Again: Ms. Quinn,

I'm an idiot. I momentarily confused you with Jane Bryant Quinn, regarding my comment about your daughter (Martha Quinn of 1980's MTV fame). Please forgive me!

Sally Quinn: You're not an idiot for confusing me with Jane Bryant Quinn. I once sat next to financier Henry Kravis at dinner. He kept telling me all night what a huge fan of mine he was and how brilliant I was and I was completely snowed. Only; after dinner did he learn I was not Jane and apologized. He should have kept his mouth shut. I was crushed.

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New York, N.Y.: I'm not sure what to make of your article. It seems rather clubby - you and your friends - and horribly out of date. Maybe in your circles the little woman can pillowtalk her man to do the right thing but today's issues are too serious to rely on Laura Bush's resume. A 25 year old career as a teacher/librarian followed by a life of defending her husband are not very reassuring. It's over. She sat by while all of this happened - why would you think she has a nobler spirit?

Sally Quinn: I don't think a wife's influence on her husband is ever out of date. Or a husband's influence on his wife for that matter. I do think Laura Bush has a noble spirit and I think that she may have stayed in the background for the very reason that we have been discussing. He was elected, she wasn't. But there does come a tipping point. And if she feels that he is not being well advised or that he is being too closed off then she could well persuade him to get a fresh look at things by seeking outside opinions. I don't think this has anything to do with an old fashioned or a modern point of view. We are talking about human relationships here.

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New York, N.Y.: Any inside information about what Laura thinks about the war and the neocons that have tremendous influence over the President? She doesn't seem like the type that would be friendly with the VP.

Sally Quinn: My understanding is that Laura Bush has a number of very close Texan friends who visit her in the White House regularly. I don't think she is best friends with the Cheneys but there has never been any indication that they don't get along. As I've said. She is very discreet.

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Bethesda, Md.: How likely do you see the replacement of Dick Cheney as VP with Condi Rice?

Sally Quinn: Not if Lynne Cheney has anything to do with it. Besides, why would Condi Rice want to be Vice President when she is Secretary of State. But you never know. After 1968 I vowed never to make a political prediction.

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Bethesda, Md.: A lot of your advice to Laura Bush seems sound to this Republican (yes, a Republican agreeing with you, in large part). But, you missed on a couple of points: (1) bringing a Nunn or Lieberman into the Cabinet would not protect against Democratic attacks. The Democrats have a visceral hatred of President Bush because of Florida. That will never change, no matter who's in the Cabinet and even if the country goes to hell in the process; (2) The Democrats do have horns. See Point (1).

Sally Quinn: I agree that many Democrats really hate Bush. I've never seen anything like it. But I also think that bringing a Democrat into the fold might make some of the Democrats realize that he is trying to keep an open mind and see other points of view. Particularly if it is someone like Nunn who is universally admired as being bipartisan. I know some democrats who don't have horns. Really.

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New Jersey: Sally, you have given Laura an impossible assignment: she has to persuade her husband, not to adjust his policies of the past 5 years, but to repudiate the majority of them, repudiate his staff, and basically admit that his presidency has been a failure.

It's not going to happen.

& 2 other remarks:

How do the former Bush's advisors get off saying they have been shut out? The main players date from the Reagan-former Bush administrations, including virtually all of those who implemented the invasion of Iraq.

And, do those "prominent Republicans" have any ideas of what to do about the next 3 years?

Sally Quinn: One of the most admirable traits a leader can have is to be able to admit mistakes and to admit that he has changed his mind. I don't think its an impossible task to get Bush to do that if he felt he would (once again) earn political capital by doing so. Also, bringing in new people or listening to new ideas is not exactly admitting your administration is a failure. I think she can do it.

When I talk about people not being listened to I'm referring to the Cabinet, with the exceptions of Rumsfeld and Rice. I'm not referring to his close White House advisors.

Many of the prominent Republicans I talked to actually do have some very good ideas, particularly about the war. That's why I say it's important to listen to other views.

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Miami, Fla.: I am not sure that anything Mrs. Bush has to say to the President on matters of domestic import or about the quagmire in Iraq will hold sway over what Rummy or Condi or Dick has to say. Andy, of course, has the last word.

The President needs the support of all his fair weather republican friends who are hell bent on retaining their congressional seats. He is now being treated as someone with a highly contagious communicable disease.

Sally Quinn: In the end, I think the President will listen to his wife over everyone. She's the only one who's in love with him. I wouldn't call the people who are criticizing the President fair weather friends. I would call them people who are doing what they believe is right for the country. No President has all the answers and I think it is everyone's duty to speak up when he or she feels the policies are wrong. Being a loyal Republican (or Democrat) does not necessarily make you a good American.

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DC Fed: Thanks Sally for a great article and now Mrs. Bush you need to heed the advice given by your fellow Republicans and pull the President aside, maybe head to Camp David, and sit down with him and get him to open up about what's really going on in his mind. He seems totally unfocused most of the time and maybe that's because he has a bazillion things going on right now, most importantly the war, followed closely (in my opinion) by his sunken ratings.

Ask him if he's ready to pull out, not only out of IRAQ but also out of the White House. Maybe it's too much to fulfill a 2nd term, maybe he got in over his head. Dear God, I just thought to myself that if George leaves then Cheney is in...no wait, don't let George pull out of the WH just yet.

So now what...my God girl you have your hands full...in just under 3 years you & George will be living on your ranch and can put these eight years behind you but until then you have to help him focus on the top priorities of our country. What are they? Well that's the $64,000 question.

Have his top aides make a list of them, keep it to 10 - anything more than that is unmanageable then prioritize them and start working on reaching their goals. For example, if it's the war, then he has to say to himself, if we pull out now, what will happen? If I continue to let it go on and I leave in 3 years, what will happen then? does it become the next President's problem?

FOCUS is the key, get that list typed up and talk to him Laura, because like Sally said, this is YOUR time to step in and help him out.

Good Luck & God Bless!

Sally Quinn: I do think when you are the President and you have a war that's going badly, it becomes almost an obsession and it is hard to focus on anything else. Also, when you and your advisors have been in the White House for over five years, fatique sets in and people just don't think as clearly as they did. They dig in and can't find a way out. That's why I'm for one six year term.

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Ocala, Fla.: Is this piece directed at the elite Washington circles you run in or at the average Post reader? Your view of American politics is quite different from the average person. Are you aware of this or have you just lived in D.C. so long that you don't understand that average American?

Sally Quinn: This piece is directed to everyone, not just elite Washington circles. You don't have to be in Washington to know that the President's polls are way down. And to think that when a guy is in trouble, who better to help him out than the wife who loves him.

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Falls Church, Va.: Could you step back in First Lady history a bit-- You've mentioned Nancy Reagan a couple of times, was the relationship between her and George Schultz as ugly as it appeared at the time?

Sally Quinn: I don't recall there being any kind of animosity between Nancy Reagan and George Schultz but maybe you know something I don't.

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Bethesda, Md.: I've always felt that George Bush has some sort of mild dyslexia or learning disability"

For what it's worth, British psychologist Oliver James has suggested that Mr. Bush's "creative" use of language is a subconscious rebellion against his bullying mother and "East coast intellectual" father, who were by comparison language snobs. The "living in GHW's shadows" thing has been well explored, so at least the rebellion part is pretty clear.

Sally Quinn: I don't think that his creative use of language has anything to do with his parents. I just think he has a mild form of dyslexia. I hope it doesn't anyway. How would I be able to explain my own son's dyslexia? I hate to think.

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Fairfax, Va.: Hi Sally, I agree that Laura Bush is our only hope for a voice of reason getting through to the president. But I have the impression, rightly or wrongly, that she had some influence in the nomination of Harriet Miers, and that had a lot of political fallout, particularly from his own base. Do you think that might make him less likely to listen to her (pure speculation, of course)?

Sally Quinn: I've heard that she did have a say in the Harriet Miers nomination and I'm afraid, because the reaction was so disastrous that might affect his view of her political opinions. However, I think it wasn't the dumbest idea to try to appoint a decent woman lawyer to the supreme court and I'm not sure how bad she would have been compared to some others.

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Denver, Colo.: Good afternoon, I think that one of the most relevant and revealing parts of the George Bush Jr. story is his relationship with his father. Don't you think that his life is playing out in significant ways as a rebellious and defensive son?

Sally Quinn: I don't know the answer to that but I am baffled as to why he doesn't take his father's advise more or listen to his father's advisors more. George Bush (Sr.)was a man very much liked and admired in Washington for his conciliatory manner, his willingness to reach out and his pragmatic approach to problems that didn't necessarily fall in line with the conservative base.

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Washington, D.C.: Liked your piece this morning, as I do everything you've ever done, including your marriage, but do you really think what W is doing is as objectionable to the First Lady as it is to you? She's spent the last thirty years listening to him and why should she wise up now? I worry more about Harriet Miers who said he was the smartest person she ever met. She needed to get out more.

Sally Quinn: I think you can love somebody and be supportive of him for years and then realize he is in big trouble and needs more help and advice than he has before. There are a lot of terrible problems this man has to deal with including sending young men and women to their death. That's not in the realm of ordinary marital problems. I remember Barbara Bush once saying to me that after all the years as a Congressman's wife, wife of the CIA Director, UN Ambasador, Ambassador to China, and 8 years as Vice President's wife, that nothing had prepared her for the scrutiny and criticism of the White House. It's just another planet for most of us.

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Anonymous: Dear Sally:I always admired you. I am writing regarding your article on Laura Bush. I don't think she will do it, Sally. She just wants to be the good southern wife who only looks at her husband adoringly and wants to be liked avoiding certain topics. She is pro-choice according to her, but do you think she talks to Bush about it? No. At least Barbara Bush said that abortion should be left out of politics. No Laura. She is just like a trophy wife without being sexy. She is not Nancy who influenced Reagan. He listened to her. Bush is too arrogant and has her in her place. Reagan may have had the onset of alzheimer during his presidency, but he listened to Nancy. Not Dubya. Thanks for your attention. --Maria

washingtonpost.com: From Her Lips to His Ear (Post, March 24)

Sally Quinn: I hope you're wrong.

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Orlando, Fla.: Have you ever gotten the chance to speak to Laura Bush? Do you think her opinion of your piece will find its way back to you. I don't like her husband's policies but they do seem like nice people. The Vice President is a different story.

Sally Quinn: I have spoken with Laura Bush and I like her very much and think she is smart. Will I ever hear whether she read this piece. Maybe. We'll see.

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New York, N.Y.: How does she explain his willingness to break the laws, undermine the constitution and act as though he was the law?

How does it feel to be surrounded by some of the most corrupt and/or incompetent people in government?

Did you marry him for the Bush money and power? If not, why would you marry into the Bush family?

Sally Quinn: I think Laura Bush fell in love with George Bush. I don't think she feels the people around him are corrupt. And I do think that she can make a difference.

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Fairfax, Va.: Sally, It concerns me a bit that you invoke Nancy Reagan as an exemplar for Mrs Bush. I was not alone in thinking that Mrs Reagan's influence was worrisome at the time because "she wasn't elected" - there are no checks and balances on First Spouses.

Sally Quinn: I think at the beginning there was a concern that Nancy Reagan had too much influence on the President. But I think that was proven false at the end of the first term. After the Iran Contra scandal, however, in the second term when things were really falling apart, she had gained enough confidence in herself and her views that she was able to step in and do something and it saved his presidency. I think Laura Bush is at that point now. I think you can't rely on what she has done in the past. It takes time to learn and to build up confidence in your own views before you feel ready to step in. I think she's there now. Personally she seems so much more together and confident to me now than she did at the beginning. But then they all do. Just think how scary it must be to move into the white House and assume that kind of power and responsibility when you don't know what you're doing. And most of them don't really at the beginning. So it takes a while to really know how to govern. And the First Lady is just as much a part of the learning curve as the president is.

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Bethesda, Md.: Psychologist Oliver James has described the death of George W. Bush's younger sister Robin (of leukemia) as a hard blow to the young Bush. The fact that his parents went out golfing the day after the funeral (forshadowing the younger Bush's own golfing fundraiser as New Orleans was drowning) as being a hard pill for him to swallow. Did Barbara Bush's tough, unfeeling persona instill an anger in him that is now being taken out (subconsciously) on the country?

Sally Quinn: I think it is very unfair to call Barbara Bush unfeeling or to criticize her for playing golf (if she did) the day after her child's funeral. She was devastated as was George Bush Sr. by that child's death. You never know ho you will deal with a trauma until it happens to you. When my son had heart surgery my husband and I went home from the hospital that night and had a party. We couldn't be with him in the intensive care unit and the doctors told us to go home and get some sleep. We ordered out Chinese food and surrounded ourselves with our friends . It was the most comforting thing I could think of for us to do. The President was also traumatized by his sister's death. Those are things you never get over. It just seems to simplistic to attribute the problems he's having now, though, to that tragedy.

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Stafford, Va.: "Sally Quinn: I agree that many Democrats really hate Bush. I've never seen anything like it. "

Unfortunately, we have: some Republicans and Bill Clinton.

Both sides that "hate" are wrong. Disagreement is fine, but not hate.

Sally Quinn: I agree.

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Shaker Heights, Ohio: Why are you and Mike Wallace so high on Nancy Reagan?

Sally Quinn: Mike has been friends with Nancy Reagan for years. I admire the way she handled the last years in the White House and how she handled her husbands long illness with strength and dignity.

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Philadlephia, Pa.: You may be onto something. It took a White House aide making a DVD of the devastation of Hurricane Katrina to convince the President of the seriousness of the situation. Maybe Laura should be the person who stays attentive to situations and perhaps she is the person who, better than his aides, can tell the President the truth without fear of getting fired or reprisal. Have you received any feedback, even indirect, from any White House aides on your memo the the First Lady?

Sally Quinn: I have received no feedback and don't expect to. I agree with you that in the end, the President knows that what she tells him is because he loves him and wants the best for him. No aide can be that trustworthy.

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Silver Spring, Md.: If only, if only ...

That is what I say after reading your Laura Bush letter. You, and so many other journalists, write as if the only thing that really matters are the president's poll numbers and how he is perceived. The problem is the policies, not the perceptions. The Iraq adventure is a failure, no matter how many Americans think otherwise. You expect Laura to convince him that the biggest decision he made in his life was a colossal mistake? And then what? On one level you are moving in the right direction, the appropriate thing to do would be to get Cheney to resign and be replaced by some kind of John Warner-type "wise man" so that Bush could resign pretty soon. Did you ever believe that Bush was ever even remotely qualified for the job of president? Do you think that maybe you should have done a better job pointing out his inadequacy before he was elected, instead of asking for Laura's help now?

Sally Quinn: I think the President was very well covered by journalists during both elections. And the American people had four years to judge him and decided to put him back in the White House. I don't expect Laura Bush to tell her husband the war was a colossal mistake. I would hope that she would point out to him that things are not gong well and that he should seek out advice from a lot of people. Poll number do matter. They indicate the president's popularity. If the voters don't trust him they their representatives will not support him in Congress and they won't be behind him when he has to make the tough decisions. When you're in a war, you need to have the country behind you.

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Washington, D.C.: Hi Sally! Love yah! What kind of influence do you think Teresa would have had over John if he had made it to the White House? Would we ever be in a situation like this? JK'08!!

Sally Quinn: I'm a good friend of Teresa's and I think she would have been a very good influence on her husband, particularly on environmental issues.

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London, UK: I have to admit - I am a Laura Bush fan. I have disagreed with her husband on almost every issue - but I think we all love Laura. Laura Bush is the only person I trust in the White House. She comes across as, "This is my husband, and I will support him in what ever profession he chooses." I don't think she wants to be first lady, but a good wife and mother. You can see the love for George in her eyes. If my mother was First Lady, she would be identical to Laura. I remember when she first arrived in the White House, and she gave a tour of the garden. She was nervous and shy, and so genuine.

I am Anti George Bush, but I am Pro Laura. She is a fine example and role model of a First Lady.

Is there any way we can get George to step aside and have Laura and Condi run things? Cheney and Bush are idiots.

Sally Quinn: I agree that she is a very good First Lady. I think this is the toughest time for her in the White House because it is clear that she has an enormous amount of responsibility just in keeping up his moral, not to mention trying to inspire him to do the right things.

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Sally Quinn: That's it, everybody. I'm sorry I wasn't able to answer all of your good questions. I'll be at it again, though. Hope you check in with me next time. Sally Q

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