Outlook: Kidnapped in Iraq

Phil Sands
Journalist
Monday, April 3, 2006 1:00 PM

On the day after Christmas, while he was on his way to a routine interview in Baghdad, British freelance journalist Phil Sands was ambushed by AK-47 wielding mujaheddin, bundled into the trunk of a maroon BMW and kidnapped. In a hostage-taking eerily similar to American journalist Jill Carroll's much longer ordeal, Sands spent several days in captivity -- well-treated but never knowing what his ultimate fate might be. Sands was online Monday, April 3, at 1 p.m. ET to answer readers' questions about his Sunday Outlook article, HOSTAGE, (Post, April 2, 2006).

The transcript follows.

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U.K.: Did you ever find out who it was that rescued you and why there was all the secrecy around the unit's identity?

Phil Sands: No: I've tried to get some answers from both the British and U.S. military and other security services, but no one has told me exactly which unit found me.

That seems strange, partly because I wanted to say another personal thanks to them: instead I was told to write to General Casey (U.S. commander in Iraq).

At least one official has implied I was picked up by a unit that saves kidnap victims, but I've not gotten any more info on that.

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Fairfax, Va.: Your story in Sunday's Outlook section was very insightful. After such an experience, what made you decide to go back and keep reporting?

Phil Sands: Well, I thought about it for a while and I suppose really it all just confirmed how committed I am to being a reporter, and how important it is.

When I was kidnapped, when I thought I would die, I didn't regret being reporter, and I didn't regret trying to do the job properly. I felt I had taken my choice and I didn't feel terrible about that. Of course, I would rather have not been kidnapped but that was part of the risk, and I knew that.

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Alexandria, Va.: How do you reply to those who complain that the news media need to print more good news, when if you try to do a "good news story", you open yourself up to being kidnapped getting to the interview or location?

Phil Sands: Good news, in any meaningful sense, is pretty hard to find in Iraq, full stop. And the fact that a reporter - of any nationality - trying to cover any story is a target makes the job all but impossible.

I think all reporters would love to cover all kinds of stories in Iraq but the truth is it's too dangerous. In it's way that's a pretty poetic answer to anyone calling for more good news.

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Fairfax, Va.: With your background in Iraq and the ordeal you faced being kidnapped, after reflection, have you been able reach any conclusions on any ongoing benefit to be expected from U.S./U.K. efforts in Iraq?

Phil Sands: To be honest I feel pretty pessimistic about Iraq and I can't think of what the answers - what the way out - is. I can see merit in all kinds of arguments, in terms of British and U.S. policy.

By that I mean I can see very compelling reasons for a very fast pull out of the troops.

I can also see compelling arguments for them to stay longer.

My opinion on this can change but if you put me on the spot now, I'd feel inclined to say the troops should be pulled out quickly. I'm not sure the situation in Iraq will get much worse if they do leave.

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Charlottesville, Va.: This is not so much a question as a comment. I enjoyed reading your piece, and the question of what is a "guest" is important. I would like to suggest you read essays in the anthropologist Pitt-Rivers' book The Fate of Shechem, perhaps especially Chapter 5, The law of hospitality, and then reconsider your experiences. There are critical questions about honor in the region that govern the nature and tone of strangers and friends. You encountered much of that. We'd all be better informed if you could shed further insight on it.

Cheers.

Phil Sands: Well, okay. Thanks, I'll try to look some of that stuff up. I have to say, when the guy said, "You are a guest" I remember thinking I'd never been handcuffed or held under armed guards while a guest at other places.

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Laurel, Md.: Mr. Sands, is it possible you are suffering from a mild case of "Stockholm Syndrome" and are re-living your experiences through a prism of thanks that everything worked out OK?

Phil Sands: Yes. Perhaps it's more than mild. I've talked it all though with the British security services who debriefed me/took a witness statement after the event, and they said I seemed to be pretty clear headed about it all. But, yes, it's a strange situation to be in and I can't rule it out by any means.

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Philadelphia, Pa.: When you stated that no one knew you were missing during the six days you were gone, I began wondering: is no one really keeping tabs on the whereabouts of journalists? Also, I presume this means the kidnappers do not always announce when they have kidnapped someone?

Phil Sands: No; we keep tabs on ourselves. I mean, the Iraqi government knew where I was, and the U.S. military authorities knew I was in Iraq but we are responsible for ourselves.

The kidnappers can choose their moment for announcing a new victim. They don't need to hurry, especially if no one escaped (as sometimes happens) to alert the authorities.

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Knoxville, Tenn.: Do you think your were kidnapped as a British person by ideological terrorists or by a criminal gang trying to make money?

Phil Sands: I'm not sure: I think ideological. But money and ideology are pretty flexible concepts. The two often go hand in hand.

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Anonymous: If one official really did imply you were picked up by a unit that saves kidnap victims, this would mean that they knew you had been kidnapped sometime prior to you being taken..Could this be right?

Phil Sands: No: it means they knew I'd been kidnapped sometime prior to my rescue and actually launched a pre-planned rescue attempt. I don't know if that is the case. Maybe I'll find out, one day.

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United Kingdom: Now that you have spent a long while in Iraq and seen everything firsthand do you see any way out of the current situation? If you were the one in command of the whole situation what would you do?

Phil Sands: Not really, to be honest. It's a real mess and they're always very hard to clear up. But I'm not a policymaker and I'm always pretty wary of anyone who thinks they have the answers on things as big and deadly as this.

If I were in command of the whole situation, I'd resign immediately because I don't think I'd be the man for the job. I'm just a reporter.

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Washington, D.C.: Can you elaborate on what you mean by "I do not view what happened through a religious prism"?

Phil Sands: Okay: plenty of people (Muslims and Christians) have asked me if I felt anything profound during my time as a hostage, or whether I saw anything profound in my release. I didn't and don't. To me what happened was just luck. Nothing more, nothing less. It was just something that happened.

Does that make sense?

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Bowie, Md.: Is it possible (and for that matter, measurable) the kidnap groups like yours are specifically trying to limit the amount of positive news that comes out of Iraq by kidnapping reporters on their way to new power plants and the like; but allowing access to sites that represent failures?

Phil Sands: Interesting theory. I couldn't swear either way, but I think it's a little far fetched. They'd kidnap you on the way to a suicide bombing if they could, just as much as on the way to a new power plant.

But I'd agree that one aim of some of the insurgents is to manipulate the media.

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Washington, D.C.: Did your captors speak and read English?

Phil Sands: Not very well. Their English was about as bad as my Arabic, which is far from special. We sort of muddled through.

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Rochester, N.Y.: First off: people like you are heroes, as far as I'm concerned.

My question regards the difference in attitudes towards the press in different countries. In the United States, the right-wing has succeeded to a large extent in portraying the media as left-wing, opposed to the President, etc. (all of which is completely untrue, in my opinion). As a result, reporters in Iraq are criticized for not reporting on the "good news from Iraq".

Is this kind of silliness going on in Britain, too? Or is there a greater awareness of the dangers that reporters are facing in Iraq?

Phil Sands: I think we do get that kind of thing in Britain, but it's not at the sort of carnival level we see in the US. I'm always amazed at the bile left and right through at each other over this. It all seems childish. It'd be funny, except for the fact it's too damned serious.

The British government do go on about the media reporting only the bad stories. I sat in a Blair press conference once, in Downing Street when he said that. I wanted to laugh when he said "When I was in Iraq". My feeling is he's never been. He's been to British bases in Iraq, maybe the odd government office, on flying visits and that's a different thing entirely.

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Washington, D.C.: I read your story and was captivated by it. My question is do you think that the way the government or the public view people taken in hostage will be different, because of the possibility that the video clips might just be acted out?

Phil Sands: All video clips are acted out, in the sense that it's all pure theatre. It doesn't necessarily mean the hostage is pretending to be scared, just that it's all a very deliberate thing.

I'd never believe anything I saw in a hostage video: if someone is holding a gun to your head, I'd advise you so say what they want, unless you want to be a martyr to some cause.

I read with amusement the debate about whether Jill Carroll 'really' meant what she'd said, the implication being she had betrayed her country.

That's so funny it's absurd. What kind of fool would even ask such a question?

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Washington, D.C.: I've posed this question a few times, but few journalists are willing to respond.

While I'm very happy and thankful that journalists taken hostage are released safe, I wonder if the large amount of media attention takes away from the focus on the stories that you've written or will write?

I can only guess that Jill Carroll will not just be known as a journalist Jill Carroll, but former hostage Jill Carroll. How does that change the outlook on the stories you write? Can you still be unbiased?

Phil Sands: Yeah, I know what you mean. I think in my case, it'll go away pretty quickly. I wasn't held for as long as Jill, there wasn't all the media attention and I'm happy with my continuing anonymity.

In terms of bias etc: I don't feel any different (maybe, hopefully older, wiser) so I don't see that as a problem. I'm just back to being a reporter again. It's pretty easy, in my case.

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Washington, D.C.: Do you feel they were native Iraqis as opposed to foreigners?

Phil Sands: Definitely Iraqis. No foreigners there. I was terrified that I'd hear foreign accents, but they we're all Iraqis.

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Washington, D.C.: Did you ever try to formulate an escape plan, or decide what your last actions/words would be if you about to confront sure execution? What did you place your odds of release/rescue versus execution at?

Phil Sands: Yes, I tried to formulate plans. Some simple (like, go to the toilet one night with the fat, slow guard, and run like hell) other complicated (steal guns, car keys etc etc).

Last words: no. There's no point. I remember thinking: oh well, I'll be dead. It didn't seem like the end of the world and nor would it have been. I don't mean to sound cold, but that's how it felt. In a way it's nice to know that when death feels close, it's not as bad as you might think. It's just something, almost like having to get out of bed in the morning (to be a bit too blase about it). That's not the same, I'm sure, if you see someone else you love dying, but in terms of myself, I wasn't too deeply upset.

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U.K.: If it were money then I imagine they would have found your cash. Two thosand dollars in cash of yours was found at the rescue.

What happened to that? Did you ever get it back?

Phil Sands: Yup, I did have that money stolen by the mujaheddin and I think it was found at the time of release. I've not got it back, but I did get out alive and that's good enough.

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England: Does journalism of the kind you are doing make any difference or spread the "truth" once it goes through news editor on this side of the conflict?

Phil Sands: Depends on the editor. Some are good and leave the work alone and very pure. Some meddle and ruin it and make it meaningless. Most are somewhere in between, I suppose.

Does it make a difference? I don't know if my reporting does, but I read other reporters and that makes a difference to me, so yes. I read Patrick Cockburn every day about Iraq and it educates me. That's important.

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Maryland: If given an opportunity, would you have killed any of your captors in order to be free?

Phil Sands: If I had been desperate enough, yes I think I would. I remember thinking if it came to it, I could shoot one of them. Why not?

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Tysons Corner, Va.: I thought your piece was excellent - very moving and very informative. I'm glad you were rescued. Does part of you wish you'd continued your time with your kidnappers - just to see what was going to happen?

Jill Carroll's story is a bit different, but she went into this with a great deal of love for the Iraqi people - you seem to have that same desire to inculcate yourself into their culture. Does that affect your post-rescue feelings, do you think?

Phil Sands: I do wonder what would have happened if I had stayed with them, instead of being rescued. If nothing else, it was interesting to see this stuff close up, and my Arabic got better (amazing what the threat of death does to your ability to learn a tough language).

But if at any stage during my kidnap someone had given me the choice, stay or go, I would have gone. No question. I'm delighted I was rescued.

Jill's situation was different and, sadly, much harder.

My feelings about Iraq haven't really changed. They were mixed before and still are. It's a complicated place but as a reporter working there, you do get to care about it. It's hard to walk away.

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Wheaton, Md.: Do they hold reporters in high regard?

Phil Sands: Not really, I don't think. They hold them in much higher regard that soldiers or contractors but as other people have pointed out, they - just like the authorities in Washington - view the media as a key player in the war. To such an extent that they are seen by many on both side of the divide as 'players', rather than neutrals.

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Arlington, Va.: You mentioned that your translator was also kidnapped and held separately, and was kept Abu Ghraib for six weeks. This was much longer than your time in captivity; were you able to tell the military who he was so he could be released? Have you spoken with him since?

Phil Sands: I did tell the military - and other journalists and organizations he has worked with contacted the U.S. military to vouch for him.

That seemed to have limited effect. The British who were quietly (and I think, ineffectively) lobbying his case behind the scenes told me, "the Americans do what they want." The implication was clear that he was suspected of being involved in the kidnap (despite being found with me, as a hostage) and it took six weeks to go through the clearing process. That's pretty standard in Iraq, and six weeks is actually fast!

I don't know why he was let out but it came soon after threats of legal action demanding his release.

I have spoken to him since. He's shaken up and depressed, to say the least.

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Washington, D.C.: You mentioned asking your captor to Google your name. A war is going on and they have Internet service? Dial-up or cable? Too bad the computer can't be traced.

Phil Sands: Yeah, I know. I asked if they had the Internet on site but they didn't. I guess they go into town and use the Internet cafe. Beware who's sitting next to you!

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The United Kingdom: Are there any reporters left in Iraq working independently like you were, or are they all standing on the roof of the Palestine hotel interviewing by phone?

Phil Sands: A lot are doing the latter, but people are still slipping around. Jill Carroll was very experienced at it and some of the newspaper reporters move without armed guards, etc. But there seems to be a general consensus right at this minute that it's too dangerous. People are going north, to Kurdistan, and doing what they can from there. Otherwise, it's pretty much on the roof or out with a personal SWAT team. It's a shame and a disaster for Iraq. Clear, independent reporting is vital. Utterly vital.

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Maryland: Is there a book in your future?

Phil Sands: Don't think so, not in terms of me writing one. A boring one maybe.

I read stuff about reporters and I'm not much interested in that. It's not good when a reporter becomes the story. If I stay as a reporter for another 40 years, maybe I'll be knowledgeable to write something worthwhile.

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Uppsala, Sweden: To what extent were you able to communicate with your kidnappers?

Phil Sands: Surprisingly well, really. We talked in a mix of Arabic and English, and covered many topics. From war to their amazement that an unmarried man and a woman can hold hands in public on the streets of London.

One even asked me if I'd ever kissed a girl, and was fascinated at the idea. It seemed pretty sad to me that he never had the chance, and I suppose now he'll never get to.

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Britain: Were you given news of any kind when you were held? Did you see a TV or hear a radio, etc.?

Phil Sands: No. I don't know where I was held and to this day no one will tell me.

There was no TV, no radio. MY captors had hand-held radios for communicating and setting up their military operations. That's all. I think they had a TV, in the other room. They watched endless religious programs, as far as I could hear.

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Alexandria, Va. : Did your kidnappers ever identify themselves as part of a group, like Jill Carroll's kidnappers did? Do you know if they were involved in kidnapping anyone else?

Phil Sands: They just told me they were Iraqi mujaheddin (holy warriors) they didn't give one of those absurd names.

I don't know if they were involved in other kidnapping, although they did mention another hostage (a German woman) who I knew had been freed. They gave me this as an example that I would not necessarily die, if their investigation found me to be "innocent" of involvement with U.S./British forces.

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Arlington, Va.: Thank you for giving us a sense of what your difficult experience was like. A while back I read that the Japanese hostages (kidnapped during the early stages of the war, I believe) were actually shunned by their fellow citizens when they returned safely to Japan. There was apparently a sense that the hostages had brought shame onto the country, had brought their fate upon themselves. I found this horrifying and more than a little mystifying. What do you think was happening in that case?

Phil Sands: No idea. It sounds a bit stupid to me. I mean, it depends though. If they were kidnapped while being tourists in Iraq, then that's stupid and is shaming. But I don't understand it at all if they were aid workers or journalists: people trying to do necessary and important work.

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Silver Spring, Md.: How many pieces had you written about Iraq before this happened?

Phil Sands: Lost count: many, no various things in various places. Some long, some short, some good, some bad etc.

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Olney, Md.: Are there any reporters from Arab countries providing independent reporting?

Phil Sands: Yes, Arab reporters (mainly Iraqis) are the ones who really get close to the actual story of Iraq and all of the Western operations in Iraq rely utterly on Iraqi journalists.

The quality can be a mixed bag, though.

One problem is that Arab journalists get in trouble with the insurgents and are also very afraid of the Americans (a grim number have been killed, but insurgents and the U.S. military).

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washingtonpost.com: Thank you all for joining us.

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Phil Sands: Just a quick note to anyone who took an interest in the piece, emailed me or joined the web forum. Thanks very much.

Phil.

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Olney, Md.: Did they seem to be well informed about the war, the U.S. and Britain and other world events?

Phil Sands: Informed. Not necessarily well informed. Some had accurate ideas, some were laboring under the customary delusions - such as there being a Sunni majority in Iraq.

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Washington, D.C.: Any regrets?

Phil Sands: Not really. I'd rather not have been kidnapped, but there's not much point in mulling over it all. Split milk, etc.

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Phil Sands: Okay, I think that's all the questions answered, after a fashion.

I'll sign off now,

Phil.

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