Debunking Da Vinci

Cracking the Code

"Breaking the Da Vinci Code"

The controversy over "The Da Vinci Code" continues. The movie, directed by Ron Howard and based on the bestseller by Dan Brown, opened at the Cannes Film Festival in France on Wednesday amid protest and controversy. (It opens in the U.S. and other countries on Friday, May 19.)

The movie, like the book, suggests that Jesus Christ was married to Mary Magdalene and had a child and that Opus Dei, a conservative Catholic movement, is a murderous cult.

Darrell L. Bock , research professor of New Testament Studies at Dallas Theological Seminary and author of "Breaking the Da Vinci Code: Answers to the Questions Everyone's Asking," will be online Thursday, May 18, at 2 p.m. ET to separate fact from fiction.

Submit your questions and comments before or during the discussion.

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Darrell L. Bock: Hello everyone. I am glad to discuss the Code with you and tell you secrets Dan Brown did not tell you.

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Fairfax City, Va.,: Isn't it true that Da Vinci used the same man to act as a model to paint Jesus Christ and Judas Iscariot? Isn't that the real story behind the painting of the Last Supper?

Darrell L. Bock: I am not an art historian, so I do not know the specific answer. I can tell you that every art historian I have spoken to and that has emailed me told me he got the art history wrong.

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Albany, N.Y.: Why do religious scholars often present church teachings as if they were fact, rather than a version of events unsupported by any historical evidence?

Darrell L. Bock: Because there are both facts and interpretation in history. Some questions can be answered as fact. Jesus did live and was crucified, Fact. Nicea did not discuss the books of the Bible. Fact. Jesus was believed as divine by the first century church. Fact. The last two directly contradict claims by Dan Brown and we have documents that show it.

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Bethesda, Md. : Dan Brown does stay this is a work of Fiction. Why do you think so many people including the church is taking it literally?

Darrell L. Bock: Because on national television more than once he said he researched the backdrop carefully and the theories he presented are true, including saying that if he were writing nonfiction he would not change a thing.

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Falls Church, Va.: Is Opus Die anything like how the book depicts it?

Darrell L. Bock: Short answer is No. It is a Catholic lay discipleship organization.

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Toronto, Canada: I borrowed but couldn't get past a few pages of the terrible prose of Brown's book, and film is being generally panned for losing even the pot-boiler aspect. There are some wonderful, genuinely literary fictions on Christ's sexuality, e.g., Lawrence's "The Man Who Died" and Saramago's "The Gospel According to Jesus Christ" and some much more interesting films, Mel Gibson's not included. How are these much more serious and emotionally moving treatments dealt with by scholars?

Darrell L. Bock: This is a good question. The issue is that we know Jesus was single (both liberal and conservative scholars agree here- one of the few things they do agree about). We know nothing else about this aspect of Jesus' life, so anything written about it is speculation.

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London U. K.: When one reads carefully the material written about the Qomran Cave and the Dead Sea scrolls, one is pushed to feel that the Jesus of the Christians had not existed. If he did not, how could he marry or stay celibate? Perhaps Christ was an ideal. This is a more plausible alternative, a timeless or at east a useful and welcome product for the time or around the time we like to believe he was around. Even a more Godly or Godlike, mystical embodiment or imagined mystery.

Darrell L. Bock: The Dead Sea Scrolls are Jewish texts of a separatist group that lived in eh desert. They have nothing to do with Jesus. That is why they say nothing about him. Josephus, a Jew, recognized that Jesus existed. So did writers like Tacitus and Suetnius. None of them are Christian. Jesus certainly lived.

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Annapolis, Md.: In the book it says that as many as 5 million women were burned to the stake as witches over a 200-year period, either because they were midwives, intellectuals, or too independent/progressive. Any truth to that?

Darrell L. Bock: Non. The number is far too high. It is more like 20,000. Even that is 20,000 too many. It was not because they were progressive or intellectual. That is 21st century language projected back on this period. It was because of fears about witchcraft as well as just excessive paranoia.

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Washington, D.C.: The bible has been written and rewritten and rewritten ... and mostly by men over centuries. Why should we consider the Bible the true message of Jesus?

Darrell L. Bock: It has not be rewritten several times. It is the product of a variety of authors over several centuries. The gospels have roots in apostles who walked with Jesus or those who walked with those who walked with them. That is why they quickly gained respect as meaningful sources about Jesus.

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Rockville, Md.: What consequences do you see for the evangelical churches and other protestant denominations, who are using Catholic sources to debunk the Da Vinci Code. Does this have consequences for other Catholic doctrine and practices that have traditionally been set aside by these non-Catholic traditions? Could the Da Vinci code experience be a good thing for dialogue?

Darrell L. Bock: The history of the first 350 years of the church predates all of the denominational splits in Christianity. It is a shared history. This is why the appeal is not to Roman Catholic sources but traditional Christian ones before there was a fully formed Roman Catholic church.

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New York City: In the TV program "Jack and Bobby" from 2 years ago, one of the characters were talking about the De Vinci code as fact -- even though that is itself a fictitious program, TV does drive popular culture, so do you think that most of "Hollywood" believes this book as fact, and that those crying heresy is protesting too much, thus, is fact? Is Dan Brown influenced by this attitude? Does he really believe what he wrote?

Darrell L. Bock: Dan Brown claimed that what he wrote was fact, that he carefully researched it and that he believed the theories he presented in the novel. Tha is what he said when the novel was released. Now he is saying he simply wanted to get the ideas out there. So I am not sure what he believes now.

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NYC: So, what has the Catholic Church been hiding all these years? Was Mary Magdalene a prostitute? Is there a secret about the "One True Church" that is being hidden from the masses because of power?

Darrell L. Bock: The original church was not an institution of power. It was a heavily persecuted minority that had several people die for their faith until the third century. It could not spin and maintain secrets in this life threatening environment. Mary Magdalene was not a prostitute. This comes from an error of combining incorrectly three biblical texts.

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Anonymous: Farrell,

What's the most frequently asked question that you're asked about this book? I.e., which particular aspect/article of evidence/theory seems to most intrigue people?

Farrell LA. Bock: Why all this hubbub about a novel? Answer: Because the author claimed the background was carefully researched and was true.

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Washington, D.C.: How do you feel about the disclaimers that were asked to be put in the movie but vehemently denied by the company?

Darrell L. Bock: That was never going to happen if they were to be faithful to the novel. It was a naive thing to request.

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Chatsworth, Calif.: Brown points to the person on Christ's right in the De Vinci painting as Mary M. -- it seems unquestionable that that figure looks like a woman while the other 12 are clearly men ...

Darrell L. Bock: No, as art historians have written me, when painters of this period painted folks in their teens it was not unusual to give them a genderless appearance. John is the figure here and he was a young teenager at the time.

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Washington, D.C.: I think it took three to four posts before you lost credibility with me by saying we 'know'.

Regardless of the particular topic, one thing is for sure and that is that there is no consensus on any point. Would you care to re-visit or re-phrase your assertion that we 'know' Jesus was single?

Darrell L. Bock: No. We do know that. There is no evidence anywhere that Jesus was married. We have no text that makes such a claim. I admire your certainty about what do we not know, when scholars of all stripes have given their affirmation that this is one thing about Jesus that we can be confident about knowing.

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College Park, Md.: The reviews of the movie are so-so. What have you heard and what do you expect?

Darrell L. Bock: The same. I think the movie is up against a lot of expectation. People also know a lot more about the novel and the issues it raised now.

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Falls Church, Va.: You can't really argue that the person to the right of Jesus in the Last Supper has long hair and feminine features, can you?

Also what about the lack of a grail in the painting?

Darrell L. Bock: I think I answered this in a post above. I cannot tell you about the lack of a grail. It is debated whether a single grail would have been a part of the original scene.

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Herndon, Va.: Thanks you for your precise and well documented book. I find it interesting that when the Bible is held up against other sources of history from that same era it is found to be extremely correct and accurate notwithstanding the claims from those who wish to discredit the text and message. Why is this "fact" not more widely known?

Darrell L. Bock: Good question. Some people do not realize how well attested the Bible is as an ancient document.

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McLean, Va.: I have read Holy Blood/Holy Grail and Da Vinci Code. Why is it so far-fetched to believe that Jesus might have married and had children? As Holy Blood implies Jesus would have been looked upon strangely being a rabbi and not being married.

Darrell L. Bock: Jesus was not a formal rabbi. He is called rabbi because he functioned like a teacher. In addition, there was in Judaism a tradition that if one wished to be totally dedicated to religious service then being single was OK. The Essenes at Qomran lived this way.

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Chevy Chase, D.C.: Is it your opinion, then, that the proverbial "Holy Grail" is indeed, the cup that Jesus drank from at the Last Supper?

Farrell L. Bock: I have no opinion on this. The Grail discussions are legends from the Middle Ages period. I am uncertain there is any real Grail.

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Washington, D.C.: "There is no evidence anywhere that Jesus was married. We have no text that makes such a claim."

C'mon Mr. Bock. This in know way proves Jesus was single. It simply doesn't prove he was married. There is a big difference.

Darrell L. Bock: Let me say it this way. There is nothing that points us to a conclusion that Jesus was married. (And we have mounds of material on Jesus that could have made such a claim). If he was not married, then he was single. Those are the only two options, correct?

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Rockville, Md.: Shouldn't you thank Dan Brown for writing his book, which has allowed you to write your own and make who knows how much money? Would this book not exist if it weren't for Mr. Brown?

Darrell L. Bock: It is true that Dan Brown's book has made the topic one of interest to people. I am grateful for that and the opportunity it represents to get a discussion out there. But I did not write the book to make money. I did not seek to write the book. I was approached and asked to write it as one who had expertise in the historical period and I agreed to do it.

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Mt. Vernon, Va.: Can you please elaborate on how Mary Magdalene came to be portrayed as a prostitute? Thank you.

Darrell L. Bock: Sure: Luke 7:36-50 has a sinful woman (usually taken to be a prostitute anoint Jesus feet. Luke 8:-13 introduces Mary Magdalene as one who Jesus healed from exorcism. John 12 has MARY of BETHANY anoint Jesus in the last week of his life. If you say the unnamed woman of Luke = Mark of Bethany = Mary Magdalene of Luke, 8, then Mary Mag becomes a prostitute. But this ignores the fact that Luke 8 is introducing a new distinct figure from the sinful woman in Luke 7 and that the anointing of Luke 7 is not the same event as the one in John 12..

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Washington, D.C.: National Geographic just did a story on The Gospel of Judas, that paints an entirely different view of both Christ and Judas, as well as Judas's role in the story of Christ. The Gospel of Judas, as well as other "heretical" gospels being "unearthed," portray a different Christ and somewhat a different message from Him, one that seems a bit more Kabbalistic in nature. To me this revelation seems to hit a bit harder than any of the Da Vinci Code nonsense and regurgitation. Why hasn't the various organized churches "hit back" at National Geographic for funding this revelation?

Darrell L. Bock: Another good question. The gospel of Judas is a historically authentic 2nd century text. They did a service by working to restore this text. The hype that surrounded its release was exaggerated in its claims. As the text is a second century text about creation (God did not create, but underling gods did, including Sakla who created Adam and Eve). It also was a text that Irenaeus provably described fro us in 180 CE. It came form a group that often made heroes court of biblical villains known as Cainite Gnostics. i

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Takoma Park, Md.: Where does Josephus say that Jesus existed? It is my understanding that he makes no such statement. Rather he says that there were many claims being made around that time about people being considered to be Messiahs.

Darrell L. Bock: Jospehus says it in Antiquities 18.63-64. There is dispute about some of the things said her, but that he referred to a Jesus as one who live din Galilee is not doubted because he also refers to James later as the brother of Jesus.

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Alexandria, Va.: Who has mounds of material on Jesus? Why hasn't it been published? Why is so little known about Jesus outside of what's written in the Bible?

Darrell L. Bock: Because the biblical texts are the best sources we have about Jesus. Tha tis why they were preserved. And this was the case before they were recognized as a part of the Bible by the end of the second century.

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Brunswick, Md.: I saw a documentary the other night that stated the Priory De Sion never really existed. True or False?

Darrell L. Bock: Sion was the fabrication of four French minds in the 1950s. It never existed as 60 Minutes showed weeks ago.

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Washington, D.C.: Quoting chapter and verse as you did above, I'm beginning to regard you more as a biblical scholar or theologian, and less as a historian. Which would you say you are?

Darrell L. Bock: The two are not mutually exclusive. I work in both spheres. It is the job of a historian to know where texts and sources are that say specific things.

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Alexandria, Va.: If there's one thing I learned from Da Vinci Code, it's that we SHOULD ask serious questions about Christianity. I don't take any of what's in Dan Brown's book as fact, but the important thing is, it should get people thinking, to ask their own questions and come up with their own answers. And I'd say it's a good thing to be asking questions about the authenticity of the Bible, because I think it's a bit narrow-minded to blindly take the Bible as infallible fact, at least not without asking some hard questions.

The only reason that we take the Bible as fact is because that is what we are TAUGHT to believe from day one. The plain fact is, none of us were alive 2000 years ago, so none of us witnessed with our own eyes the birth of Jesus, the crucifixion, etc. Essentially, we're reading the same stories that have been passed down for hundreds of years. Who's to say that the stories weren't changed gradually over the years? We can't know for a fact that they were or weren't.

Darrell L. Bock: I think you are right. Our manuscript record of these NT texts (over 5700 in Greek and 8000 in Latin) shows there were not wholesale changes in the text's transmission so the stories, although wording did differ in spots, was not radically changed in the transmission process (Something we have evidence for).

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North Carolina: How do you counter the evidence that Jesus did not physically exist and is instead a construct of centuries of heroic myths and legends?

Darrell L. Bock: Read the first and second century sources, not just Christians texts of the first century but non-Christian texts from the period (Josephus, Suetonus and Tacitus). They cannot be accused of having a Christian bias.

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Brunswick, Md.: Do we know what Da Vinci's real outlook on the Catholic Church was? It makes no sense to me he would supposedly leave fantastic clues regarding a Holy bloodline in his paintings, but at the same time protect the same "secret" as head of the Priory De Sion.

Darrell L. Bock: Do not know his view during his life, but there is strong evidence from his chief biographer that he died in the faith.

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Washington, D.C.: I just read the story by Peter Boyer in The New Yorker magazine which seems to say that you are in cahoots with the film's producers to promote the movie, even though you are critical of the movie and Dan Brown. How do you respond to the accusation that you (and other Christians) are public relations tools?

washingtonpost.com: Hollywood Heresy (The New Yorker, May 15)

Darrell L. Bock: I made a decision that the novel and movie was already a cultural fact with millions of people believing the book. I have not received one dime from Sony or the movie people. I simply wrote my views on a public web site that reiterates my severe criticism of the book. I do commend Sony for making such a locale available where the other side of the argument can be displayed. It is very American to have a point-counterpoint. That is what I did. I engaged to try to make sure those who wanted to know that side of the story could and would get it.

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Washington, D.C.: Have you published any work on the deterioration texts (apocrypha)? These were the first to spark my interest in the historical aspect of Christianity.

Farrell L. Bock: I have discussed them briefly in my book STUDYING THE HISTORICAL JESUS, when I discuss issues related to historical background and sources.

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Alexandria, Va.: Since Gibson's movie was mentioned I have a question on that in comparison with Da Vinci. Why did it catch so much heat as being an inflammatory movie, while Brown's movie, that makes some egregious assertions about Chirst not seen as inflammatory by the media types?

Darrell L. Bock: Actually I think the media has done a nice, calm job of raising questions about the accuracy of the novel. There job is to reflect debate in the public square, which was louder when Gibson's move was released. Those who have objected to Brown's book have done so in civil tones in contrast to much of the emotional reaction to the Passion.

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Arlington, Va.: The premise that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and early Church leaders whitewashed that out of the Bible makes no sense to me. If early Church leaders wanted to ensure that no one thought they were married, wouldn't it have made more sense to write her out of the Bible altogether? If Church leaders were worried about this "fact" about Jesus' life getting out, wouldn't it have been more effective to eliminate Mary from the Gospels as one of the central characters?

This is a logical fallacy The Da Vinci Code doesn't seem to overcome.

Darrell L. Bock: Not to mention the elevated role that the "suppressing catholic church" gives to Mary the mother of Jesus.

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Germantown, Md.: A tad bit off topic -- what I don't understand is when did Jesus tell people to start worshipping him as opposed to his Father ... I guess what I am asking is if Jesus's purpose for being sent as explained in the Bible was to get people back on the right track worshipping the true God, then why did Christianity start? Seems to me that the first Christians didn't follow Jesus's word ...

Darrell L. Bock: Jesus simply did his work. People, when they came to believe he was raised to God's side began to worship him. Why? because in their view, Jesus shared God's glory, performed his calling in dying for sin and being raised to the side of God, representing both God and man at the same time in doing so.

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Fairfax, Va.: What exactly does the pentagram stand for? I read that it had to do with Seal of Solomon. Though I'm not sure what that means either.

Darrell L. Bock: I do not know the answer to that question, I do not know if there is any real symbolism here or not.

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Woodley Park, Washington, D.C.: If there is no evidence that specifically points to Jesus being married, what is the evidence that specifically points to Jesus being single?

Also, you say Jesus was not a formal rabbi, he was just referred to as a rabbi because he acted like a teacher. What is the specific evidence for this conjecture?

Darrell L. Bock: He taught and the Jews who questioned him noted his lack fo formal training and lack of authority to do what he did.

There is no effort for Jesus to offer protection for Mary Magdalene when he dies as he does for his mother. Why? When Jesus appears to Mary in John she addresses him as her teacher, not her husband. Why, that is not a normal response of a wife to a husband. John is written in the 90s long before any conspiracy claims by Brown.

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McLean, Va.: Since you are both a historian and a biblical scholar, please explain whether you believe the divinity of Jesus is a proven historical fact. If so, then what is "faith"?

Darrell L. Bock: I do not think you can prove Jesus' divinity as a "fact" It is an interpretive claim about his life and work. What you can do is point to the evidence that those around him came to this view, that the empty tomb and belief in resurrection to such a vindication is something that is a historical fact. I also think the activity of Jesus is consistent with such a claim. In the end, I have to believe that this conclusion aligns with the claims. At least that is what Christians beleive that makes them Christians

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Fairfax, Va.: I understand why the Catholic church is so adamant about disliking this book/movie. However, do you think their outspoken opposition will cause curious people to go see it to see what all the fuss is about? It seems that all the Church, Opus Dei and the albino community are doing is making sure the "Da Vinci Code" stays on everyone's mind and on everyone's home page.

Darrell L. Bock: Yes, that is a probable effect. Bu the fact is this stuff is on people's minds and has been for 3 years.

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Alexandria, Va.: So who was Mary Magdalene?

Darrell L. Bock: She was a follower of Jesus who was healed by him, saw his crucifixion, burial place and was the recipient of a post-resurrection appearance by Jesus.

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Vienna, Va.: What is so "dangerous" about knowing Jesus' marriage status besides that it is different from the supported evidence?

Darrell L. Bock: I think I have said that there is nothing "dangerous" about the possibility of Jesus being married. I just do not think there is evidence that he was.

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Sterling, Va.: Isn't it true that Dan Brown and the authors of Holy Blood Holy Grail relied on documents in the French National Library to bolster their claims of the existence of the Priory of Sion and a blood connection between the Merovingians and Jesus? I read that most historians believe these documents were planted in the library by a French con man named Pierre Planchard in the 1950s -- why do none of those authors even entertain that those documents might be fakes instead of facts?

Darrell L. Bock: good question.

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Washington, D.C.: I'm a natural born cynic, so I wonder how we KNOW there is no secretive Catholic group? The Vatican is a reclusive, secretive, place. How would anyone outside of that enclave ever know for certain if such secret (though perhaps not murderous) groups exist?

Darrell L. Bock: We cannot KNOW the opposite either

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Arlington, Va.: Do think the Da Vinci Code would have been so controversial if Dan Brown had simply left out the page at the front of the book that claims everything in it is fact? I've read the book and think it is a great work of fiction. It's a well written, engaging story, but it does bother me that he said it's based on fact when it's really just a conspiracy theory.

Darrell L. Bock: Yes, if it had been just another novel, it would not have received as much ongoing attention.

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Washington, D.C.: Have you seen the movie?

Darrell L. Bock: It is not released yet. I am seeing it this afternoon at a prescreening to which I was invited.

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San Diego, Calif.: Regarding Opus Dei's objections:

Since the organization is a personal prelature of the Pope, there was a lot of "Whither Opus Dei" discussion upon the death of John Paul II. There has also been recent publicity surrounding the sainthood cause of the group's founder and some open complaints by members. This adds up to a lot of presumably unwanted attention right around the time of the book's popularity.

Do you think there is more to their protest than just not liking being the bad guys in the story?

Darrell L. Bock: I doubt it.

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Arlington, Va.: Dear Mr. Bock,

I'm not sure if others are aware or not but there have been other films which have suggested the very same themes as those contained in the "Da Vinci Code" (e.g., the comedy "Dogma" and the B-movie "Stigmata").

Why has the Da Vinci Code drawn such criticism? I am a Catholic myself and I do not find that the existence of such movies or their popularity in any way challenges my faith or harms the church.

Why this time are there so many protests and angry Catholics?

Darrell L. Bock: Because of the author's claims.

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Darrell L. Bock: I have to run to another interview. It has been fun. Thank you for your questions and patience. Darrell Bock

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