Books: 'Barn Burning, Barn Building'

Ben Barnes , a political consultant who has been involved in Texas and national politics for decades, was online Friday, May 26, at 11 a.m. ET to discuss his book, "Barn Burning, Barn Building: Tales of a Political Life from LBJ to George W. Bush." . Barnes, a former Texas lieutenant governor and Speaker of the House, recounts his interactions with President Lyndon Johnson , the rise of the Texas Democratic Party in the 1960s and his revelation during the 2004 presidential campaign that he helped get George W. Bush into the National Guard. Barnes also proposes a strategy for strengthening the Democratic party of today.

The transcript follows.

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Hume, Va.: How deeply involved was John Connally in the theft of the 1948 senate election of LBJ? I know you were very young then, but did you ever discuss this subject with either LBJ or Connally?

James Reston, Jr., author of The Long Star: the Life of John Connally

Ben Barnes: John Connally was very much involved in the 1948 campaign, and my memory is from comments made by Connally and by others. I was 10 years old when that campaign was going on.

There's a misconception about Texas politics of that day. Both sides in the 1948 Senate campaign had events happen that favored their candidacy. We all know the story of the 83 votes, and that people voted in alphabetical order. But there were many other counties in Texas where strange events happened that favored Stevenson over Johnson. In my home area, Brown County, there were almost 600 votes thrown out in a sheriff's race, and Johnson beat Stevenson in that county by almost a 2-to-1 majority.

Thanks for writing in, Mr. Reston - I'd love to have a more lengthy conversation with you about this.

And thanks all of you for joining us today. I hope to get to as many of your questions as possible.

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Bethesda, Md.: My impression was that revelations that Mr. Bush probably got help in dodging service in Vietnam had less effect on voters' opinions than allegations that Mr. Kerry may not have been shot up enough times after he volunteered for combat duty. Do you agree with this assessment, and if so, what do you think it says about the discernment ability of the typical American voter? To be blunt, I am still... let's just say "awestruck" at their verdict on this.

Ben Barnes: I think that the 2004 election will be remembered for the very clever negative attacks on Kerry's military record by the Swift Boat veterans. Mr. Kerry made a bad mistake in not answering these allegations immediately.

I agree with you, it's unbelievable that a man who volunteered for combat duty, and served honorably and was wounded, ended up in the majority of voters' minds, ended up not as patriotic as George Bush, who avoided going to Vietnam.

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Sharpstown, Tex.: Gov Barnes--

The hubris that brought you down in the Sharpstown Bank scandal seems to have migrated down Oyster Creek to Tom DeLay, who is undergoing a similar disgrace. But the Connally-crats survived your fall until they mostly turned Republican under Reagan. The dismantling of the DeLay K Street money machine is not likely to change Texas voting patterns at any rate. In your view, will the virulent, anti-government God, Guns, Gays, GIs and anti-abortion message of the Republicans be derailed by the reaction to the Lying, Spying, Torture, Corruption and Incompetence Administration? Surely not in Texas, where the best that can be hoped for is lowered suburban turnout. But how about the rest of the country? Will the Dems take one or both houses of Congress in 2006?

Ben Barnes: As I say in my book, Barn Burning Barn Building, one of the great problems with America today is the partisan politics that has grabbed hold of our nation's government. The Democrats can take back the House and elect several more Senators, and can take back the White House in 2008, but they cannot rely solely on the single-issue politics and the negative campaigning, and as you said in you question, the "Lying, Spying, Torture, Corruption and Incompetence Administration".

The Democrats are going to have to have a positive message of why they should be elected and why the Republicans should not be. And they should not count on being anti-Republican, and anti-this administration. They have to have a positive campaign.

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Silver Spring, Md.: The Democrats as of late have displayed a newfound confidence about the party's ability to take back Congress. While I certainly hope this is the case, I worry about their reliance on riding the coattails of the failures of the right to get us there. Don't they need a plan? Why can't the Dems understand that this wave won't last long, and they need some ideas of their own (and ones that speak to their base and do not pander to the right)?

Ben Barnes: In my answer to the last question, I spoke to the fact that the Democrats have to have a positive message. I think the American people are tired of politics of this era in which we live, of all negative defeat and burn-at-all-costs of your opponent. If the Democrats provide positive leadership with clear ideas, I feel comfortable that we can be successful.

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Washington, D.C.: What was the "scandal" that brought you down? And when you say Nixon was involved -- how so?

Ben Barnes: The scandal that ended my political career was an investigation at President Nixon's request of a gentleman named Frank Sharp, and an insurance company and bank he owned in Texas. The speaker of the House and the governor were involved with Mr. Sharp and they bought stock with loans from his bank, and he then bought the stock back at a profit.

I never met Frank Sharp, and as you can hear at my Web site, Barn Burning, Barn Building, you can hear clips of Nixon's Oval Office tapes, where the president talks to his Attorney General, John Mitchell, about Sharpstown.

Attorney General Mitchell apologized to me after he got out of prison. The evidence has been clear that Nixon's primary goal in Texas politics was to end my political career -- which he succeeded in doing.

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Washington, D.C.: Mr. Barnes -

I glanced at your book in a bookstore the other day, and according to the flap, John Connally supposedly saved George Bush Sr.'s career. I never heard of that -- it seems unlikely. What's that about?

Ben Barnes: I was present when Richard Nixon called John Connally in 1970 to offer him the Secretary of the Treasury position. Bush had just lost his second campaign for US Senate, and was still the most visible Republican in Texas. Connally was a Democrat, and he told Nixon it would be a mistake to appoint him to a high position unless he appointed Bush to something first. Nixon called back and said he'd appoint Bush to be the UN ambassador. That revitalized Bush's political career, and he went on to move up in the political world.

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Washington, D.C.: Mr. Barnes - when you look at today's politicians, is there anyone who compares to LBJ? And what do you think you learned from him?

Ben Barnes: It's very difficult to make a comparison of President Johnson with today's US senators and governors - they all have some similar traits. But Johnson probably understood the legislative process better than anyone in recent political history.

I learned from Johnson that politics is a contact sport that takes whole devotion to accomplish your goals. And that there's no substitute for personal contact, cajoling, and being willing to give and take on difficult issues.

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Austin, Tex.: When you went on 60 Minutes at the height of the 2004 presidential campaign, to say George Bush hadn't served his Guard time, you also claimed it wasn't political. What?? How can that not be political?

Ben Barnes: I remained silent about George Bush's National Guard service during his two campaigns for governor, and his first campaign for president. It was not until the Republicans raised military service in questioning Kerry's military service that I felt compelled to speak out.

I suppose it could be interpreted as political - but what moved me to say that on 60 Minutes was that it was wrong of me to help George Bush and many, many others get into Guard service and stay out of Vietnam. I should not have had that power, and I used it unwisely.

Also, I never said Bush didn't serve his Guard time. I said I helped him get into the Guard, which is true.

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Washington, D.C.: Mr. Barnes - You talk about wanting a return to bipartisanship, but when you were in office, Texas had only one strong political party: the Democrats. You didn't exactly agitate for more bipartisanship then - so how can you do so now with a straight face?

Ben Barnes: I certainly advocated bipartisanship when I was in office. there was a great division in the Democratic party between liberal Democrats and moderate/conservative Democrats. I worked with both sides of the party, and built a coalition of both liberal and conservative Democrats to push through good programs for our state.

The Senate was divided almost evenly among liberals and conservatives, but we passed through a lot of good legislation by being totally bipartisan.

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Hastings-on-Hudson, N.Y.: Mr. Barnes, as a VP candidate, Dan Quayle had a very rough time explaining his National Guard status during Vietnam, and swore up and down that connections had nothing to do with it. That's a claim that few of us who were drafted during the war bought. Why do you think that George Bush, who not only got in on contacts, but got preferential treatment while in, got such a free ride on the issue, especially given the fact that so many of his records have so conveniently "gone missing?"

Ben Barnes: Well, I think that that will be one of the mysteries of George Bush's political life. That that issue was not successfully raised.

I understand - not with firsthand knowledge - that lots of records were missing. The White House received the 60 Minutes tape before it aired, and they did not deny the authenticity of what was aired. There's no doubt in my mind that very few people in Texas and in other states got into the National Guard at the height of the Vietnam conflict - there were long waiting lists. To get into the National Guard ahead of hundreds of others -- that's what I'm ashamed of allowing to happen in Texas.

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Lyme, Conn.: It has often been said that Texas has one of the weakest Governors of any state while it also has one of the strongest Lt. Governors. You have been Lt. Governor. Would you agree with that assessment?

Ben Barnes: Yes, I would. And I would add that the office of Lt. Governor and Speaker of the House both have far greater powers than in other states, and greater powers than the governor.

The Texas Constitution was written in the years preceding the Civil War. Texas had a newly-elected Democratic legislature, but they still had an appointed carpet-bagger governor, appointed by the president. And that's why the legislature wrote the governor into such a weak role.

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Pittsburgh, Pa.: Just a comment-- I attended an agricultural conference in the mid-80's where John Connally was the keynote speaker. When he walked into the hall with his silver hair and dignified bearing he absolutely radiated sex appeal and charisma. It was the first and only time I was so struck by a politician. This from someone who shook hands with Bobby Kennedy (when I was a teenager) and met Bill Clinton at a rally in Richmond, Va.

Ben Barnes: Your reaction to Gov. Connally doesn't surprise me. It was like he came right out of central casting to play a governor. He had a lot of charisma, and he had great dignity.

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Rockville, Md.: I have spent a lot of time in Texas and went to Texas Tech. My memories of your service are very good. Nice to see you back. What can we do to return the Democrats to the party of Truman and Johnson?

I know they had problems, but nobody can fault their vision.

Ben Barnes: I think we've got to talk about the same issues that Truman, Johnson and Roosevelt talked about. I think those programs have an application to solving modern day problems. But we've failed at convincing the American people that we're strong on homeland security and the safety of our people.

We have seen the failures of the hurricane season, and seen that this country is not nearly as prepared as we were told in the political campaign. Democrats must seize this opportunity to show that when this country is challenged, we have ideas and programs that will provide safety and protection for our country.

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Louisville, Ky.: I don't see why Democrats should have a positive campaign. Republicans haven't run positive in years and years and it seems to work for them.

Perhaps the Dems need to put out TV ads asserting that electing Republics will erode our civil rights, make us targets for domestic spying, and will play budget shenanigans that will keep us from being protected during natural disasters.

Oh wait...

Ben Barnes: Well, a part of the Democrats' campaign to retake the congress will have to include pointing out these issues. But again, I plead with you and other Democrats that are interested in taking back congress and the White House that we still have to accentuate positive programs for the American people in addition to pointing out the deficiencies and failures of the Republicans.

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Washington, D.C.: Did you work with Barbara Jordan? What was she like as a legislator?

Ben Barnes: I worked very closely with Barbara Jordan and considered one of my dear political friends and allies. She was an incredible legislator. She really epitomizes that you ought to work with people of all political persuasions.

Barbara Jordan worked with members of the Senate regardless of their political persuasions, and in a short time she won the hearts and minds of her peers. She could get along with the "good old boys" in the Texas legislature, but she also had tremendous vision, and great hopes and aspirations for Texas and America. She was a wonderful person, and I miss her very much.

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Austin, Tex.: What are the chances the Democrats will come back in Texas? The party is so weak. And you're even supporting an Independent for Governor!

Ben Barnes: I think the party can come back in Texas. But I think we're going to have to start at the legislative and local level. We'll begin to regain seats int he Texas legislature only by working at the local level first. We don't have the money, or the stable of candidates to take back the statewide offices in the near future.

I'm supporting Carole Strayhorn not because she's an independent, but because she has the vision that Texas needs for the next four years. Carole Strayhorn will work with both Republicans and Democrats, and be a bipartisan governor.

I'm very disgusted with where we find ourselves in Texas now and with the continued failures of this administration.

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Washington, D.C.: Mr. Barnes - Why, if you are a Democrat, did you take steps to get young George Bush into the National Guard? Wasn't his father a political rival of yours? Is there some back story we don't know?

Ben Barnes: I could have been considered a political rival of the elder George Bush -- he'd been a member of Congress, and I suppose that my reaction was that an important businessman (Sid Adger) contacted me, and I knew George Bush and respected him. So I made the decision to help his son.

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Washington, D.C.: In today's Reliable Source column, you imply that "Nixonian dirty tricks" brought your career down. How so? What would Nixon have had to do with things happening in Texas??

Ben Barnes: The US attorney in Houston years later revealed to a friend of mine that he was put under tremendous pressure by the Justice Department to try to use his powers to involve me in the Sharpstown scandal - or some other scandal. They wanted to bring my political career down, because at that time I was the strongest Democratic politician in Texas, and Nixon had lost Texas in the 1968 election.

Also, President Johnson had said about me in 1970 that I would be the next US President to come out of Texas. That was a wonderful compliment coming from him, but it also put a big target on my back.

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Washington, D.C.: Do you plan to run for public office again?

Ben Barnes: No, I have absolutely no plans to run for public office. I plan to continue to talk about Barn Burning, Barn Building, and will always be involved in trying to recruit more young people into running for office, and to work with elected and appointed officials to solve the many problems our nation faces today.

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Sewickley, Pa.: I am looking forward to reading your book and am very interested in your ideas for Democrats. I am the wife of an Army Reserve officer who has almost twenty years in between the regular army and the reserve. A couple weeks ago The Post reported that the Army has instituted a policy to hold reserve officer in the service indefinitely. The story also noted that 13,000 soldiers and marines are affected by stop-loss. Do you get the sense that the country is content to turn patriots into indentured servants? Can the Democrats point out how the "sacrifice" Mr. Bush calls for is being borne only by the military families and make it work as an issue?

Ben Barnes: I think you raise a very valid point. I think we are placing unbelievably large part of the burden on the military and military families.

Military commitments do not work unless all the people of America have to make some sacrifice. I was so disappointed after 9/11 when the only thing President Bush told Americans was to go shopping. This was an excellent time to tell people to conserve energy, to lower our dependence on oil, and to ask Americans to sacrifice.

Thank you so much for your service and sacrifices.

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Munich, Germany: Do you think that the people of the U.S. would elect a president from the north-east, or should us folks across the pond bone up on our southern drawl again?

Ben Barnes: Well, I don't think you have to bone up on your southern drawl or develop an immediate love for cornbread. I think that geographic location of successful presidential candidates is going to become less important this election period.

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Dallas, Tex.: Mr. Barnes - I heard you were involved with the Kennedy trip to Dallas in 1963. True?

Ben Barnes: Yes, that's true. I was a member of the planning committee that made the arrangements for President Kennedy to come to Texas in 1963.

One of the points of controversy surrounding the trip planning was the parade in Dallas. It was not the safety of the president that was the issue. It was that we were crowding so many activities into that day that the Kennedy's were not going to have sufficient time to change clothes for the different events.

There were some who said that President Kennedy should not go to Dallas and have a luncheon that was purely a fundraiser, and not give the people of Dallas a chance to see the president. There were others who thought we should give Kennedy some downtime before the gala and receptions in Austin. Finally, Attorney General Robert Kennedy came down on the side of those who wanted the parade, and it was written in the schedule. I was opposed to it. And I've spent a lifetime wondering how history would have been changed if the parade had not gone forward.

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Washington, D.C.: Hi, Ben - Who's your pick for 2008, and why? And why don't the Texans have any good Democrats anymore?

Ben Barnes: President Johnson continually urged me and other Democrats to continue to have a "farm system" in Texas, and to bring on young men and women who would make good statewide candidates and office holders. In the 70s, we forgot about the priorities of a good farm system. We've not done enough to recruit good people to run for office as Democrats.

I'm going to wait until after the 2006 elections to determine which candidate I'll support for president. I'm extremely happy and thrilled that we have such a good field of potential presidential contenders. I think the talents of the contenders can give us all reason to be optimistic in 2008.

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Brampton, Canada: Why the determined effort to go deep into the Vietnam conflict?

Ben Barnes: I don't necessarily know about the "determined effort" you're referring to. but it's important for all of us to remember Vietnam and the lessons learned. I am concerned that we didn't focus on the lessons learned in Vietnam in making decisions about Iraq.

I think the most significant thing that we should have learned was not to go into a country without plans of how to leave it, rather than to occupy it for years and years.

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Ben Barnes: I appreciate your interest and all the very good questions. And I welcome the opportunity to answer any additional questions you might have -- just email me at smartin@benbarnesgroup.com.

I'm going to continue to talk about the problems that face America as I travel throughout the country talking about Barn Burning, Barn Building.

 And I want to let everyone know that all the author's profits from the book will be given to the Boys and Girls Clubs of the Capital Area - Austin, Texas, and the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children.

My ultimate goal is to help young people stand up for themselves, but also to encourage young people to become more active in politics and to get involved in public service, and run for public office themselves.

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