Alternative Education

Finding the Best Curriculum for Your Child

Jerry Mintz, alternative education expert and author of "No Homework and Recess All Day" was online Tuesday, Aug. 15 at 1 p.m. ET to discuss homeschooling, magnet schools, travel as education, organic curriculum, and democracy in sports.

The Education Revolution .

The transcript follows.

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Jerry Mintz: It's a pleasure to be on this forum. I hope we get a lot of good questions about education alternatives, homeschooling democratic education and educational options for parents and students.

We have a database of over 13,000 educational alternatives. We help find alternatives for teachers, parents and students, and to create new ones.

You can find more about our nonprofit, the Alternative Education Resource Organization, on our website, www.educationrevolution.org

OK, lets get started!

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Fairfax, Va.: We seem to be spending more and more money on education and the SAT scores are getting worse. Why is this happening?

Jerry Mintz: This is happening because the whole teach-to-the test approach is antiquated and not useful in the information age. Education needs to be learner centered not curriculum driven. This may be why students graduating from alternative and democratic schools and homeschoolers do so well in college and thereafter. Homeschoolers even average in the 85th percentile on standardized tests, although they don't study for them.

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Dallas, Texas: Are all or most homeschoolers doing so for religious reasons? At least, that is the impression I get here in Texas.

Jerry Mintz: About 60% of homeschoolers call themselves religious, but there is quite a spectrum within that group. Non sectarian homeschoolers and "unschoolers" are the fastest growing groups. Both approaches can be found almost anywhere.

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Bowie, Md.: What's your opinion on the Montesorri style of teaching? If a kid starts early in that approach and is then put into a regular school type of environment, I've heard that there've been a lot of problems with adjustment.

Jerry Mintz: There are many types of Montessori schools, so it is hard to generalize. But if a Montessori school closely follows Maria Montessori's concepts, the students will be well prepared for any eventuality. They will know how to work independently and in groups, and how to find resources. In my experience children coming from those schools have no problem coping with work in traditional schools, but they may well get bored!

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Washington, D.C.: Students are bored and not motivated in public schools. They are poorly dressed and disrespectful. Any research to show that if students wear uniforms their academic work improves?

Jerry Mintz: I think the results are mixed. Students in most alternative schools have no dress code at all but seem to be very motivated and do well. However in some areas it is useful to have uniforms where there are gangs or large social differences.

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District Heights, Md.: My son goes to a French Immersion School where the major part of his classes are taught in French. He is inattentive a lot and I see very little progress on the surface, however he can hold small conversations with his teachers in French. He is going to the third grade this year, and has been attending since kindergarten. I was wondering how beneficial do you think a school like that is for such a young child?

Jerry Mintz: It is impossible to know without knowing the school. But if your child seems bored or doesn't show much interest, that is a red flay. It is good for a child to learn a new language at a young age but there are other ways of doing it.

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Fairfax, Va. : What did you learn at the International Conference in Australia about what other countries are doing in alternative education?

Jerry Mintz: Every year we have a meeting of the International Democratic Education Conference. This July it was in Australia. Last year it was in Germany. Next year it will be in Brazil. We hosted it in 2003. At our conference we had 600 people from 25 countries and 25 states. They have all been fantastic experiences

This year's IDEC was no exception. We'll be making a thorough report in the next issue of our Education Revolution Magazine.

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Washington, D.C.: What is travel as education?

Jerry Mintz: Travel is usually a big part of the educational process. At my school we traveled all over, sometimes even working our way along by speaking at universities, etc. There are some programs that are designed to center around travel, such as the Audubon Expedition Institute, which travels in busses studying the environment.

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Washington, D.C.: Are there any good public alternative education schools in Northern Virginia.

Jerry Mintz: Yes there are. One of my favorites in H.P. Woodlawn School in Arlington. One of my favorite independent alternatives is the New School of Northern Virginia in Fairfax.

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Colts Neck, N.J.: Can alternative approaches to education truly empower children to create a better society? Can this approach, which seems to addresses social and cultural living and improved communication and understanding, move our children to approach life with a desire to create peace through globalization?

Jerry Mintz: I think you've said it all! Yes, I believe that student empowerment can have a profound impact, not only educationally but on our society.

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Annandale, Va.: Mr. Mintz, As the school year is about to begin, thank you for taking the time to moderate this session. I have a question about high performing elementary school students, who do well academically as well as socially in a typical school setting. In our particular situation, the student is bored in the standard classroom setting and has been told to sit there and keep herself busy by reading (5400 pages in 4th grade at a catholic school). She's testing above the 97th percentile on standardized tests. In general, would you recommend allowing these students to skip a grade or would you bring these kids together with their academic peers in the gifted and talented programs, as is so popular in today's school systems?

Jerry Mintz: Actually, I don't believe much in gifted and talented programs. I think that learning needs to be individualized and students need to experience life with a spectrum of children. But this can even be done in homeschooling. There are always many community options.

I see no need to assign so much reading that isn't the choice of the child. Maybe you need to look for an alternative.

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Fort Washington, Md.: The reason for poor performance in schools have multiple causes. However, I look at the Talented and Gifted Programs and I figured if all children had mind-expanding, wonderful education experiences that is afforded for TAG kids, education and all children would be in a better place. Plain old ordinary kids get a plain old ordinary education and the U.S. suffers.

Homeschoolers that I have met typically offer educational experiences that other students would love to have. Integration of the educational experience in real life excites kids.

The adage if education is expensive try ignorance is so very true.

Jerry Mintz: I agree with you. I think all students have gifts and potential brilliance in some areas. This approach should not be reserved for TAG. But in reality the TAG kids don't get anything much better. The approach is still from the same paradigm, but only more so, that kids need to be pushed to learn.

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Washington, D.C.: Is there a type of educational environment or school that you have seen help a teenager with ADHD and anxiety -- much of which centers around school?

Jerry Mintz: I don't believe much in "ADHD." I've seen many kids with that kind of label come into an alternative or democratic school and have the label disappear! Try the New School of Northern Virginia in Fairfax.

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Anonymous: Why do governments allow people to educate their own children, when people don't have an educational degree, can't speak correct English, and can't give their children all the activities, or studies of a normal school, such as a chemistry lab? What happened to truancy officers?

Jerry Mintz: The surprising thing is that studies have shown that the achievement of the child in homeschooling doesn't depend much on the educational background of the parents. This is because children are natural learners. The key is that the parents work hard to listen to their child and help them find resources for their interests. Learning new things along with the parents is a very positive experience.

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Washington, D.C.: Hi, I've heard a lot about charter schools that are conducted completely "on-line". Have you? We are actually considering this for our child, who is academically advanced for her age. However, we wonder about her missing out on socialization, as this online education is also really a homeschooling format. And with the teaching delivered online, we wonder about how instructors can maintain quality. Your thoughts?

Jerry Mintz: Homeschoolers call this the "S' word--socialization! People who've met homeschoolers appreciate this. It's generally not a problem. The online approach is fine as long as the parents take their kids with them everywhere and sign them up for community activities. And they'll have more time for them than traditionally schooled kids who are piled with useless homework.

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Rockville, Md.: I have a child that turns 5 on September 4th missing the September 1st requirement to enter kindergarten. What are your thoughts on applying for early entrance versus holding her back until next year?

Jerry Mintz: I think that learning doesn't come in one year blocks--the same with the concept of "failing" a year or being "kept back." I think you should look into a school that individualises education. We know of many.

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Fairfax, Va.: On the Private vs. Public debate, do you the gap is insurmountable for Public schools? Even in Fairfax County?

Jerry Mintz: There are public schools all around the country that have wonderful, learner centered approaches. Some are charters, such as Blue Mountain School in Oregon. Some are alternatives that are within the system. But it is much harder to do within the system now, especially with NCLB. H.P. Woodlawn is a good one in your area. But as I said, you also have The New School of Northern Virginia in Fairfax, a great private democratic alternative.

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Clarksville, Md.: Curiosity Question:

Have you read "Story Time," Edward Bloor's satire on standardized testing? If so, what'd you think?

Jerry Mintz: I've heard something about this but not seen it yet. But it is easy to satirize standardized testing, isn't it?

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Fort Washington, Md.: If parents want to find alternative education opportunities, this area offers so much. The National Gallery and the Freer offer wonderful opportunities to experience fine arts for students. The National Building Museum offer programs. Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts offer programs. Travel is wonderful, I just overheard a child about 7 years old at a farm ask her father is the cow real? Travel doesn't have to be overseas. A road trip or bus trip somewhere else is a beginning. Even a trip to try out different foods at a restaurant is a start.

Jerry Mintz: You've said it all. People need to start by exploring their own communities.

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Jerry Mintz: While people gather their thoughts, I want to make a general observation:

I think there are two basic educational paradigms: The one that the public school and traditional seems to be based on is that children are naturally lazy and have to be forced to learn.

The second paradigm, the one followed by many homeschoolers and most alternative a democratic schools is that children are natural learners. What follows from that is an entirely different approach in which the teacher is more of a guild and finder of resources. In that paradigm homework is less than useless unless requested by the student.

This the title of my last book, "No Homework and Recess all Day."

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Springfield, Va.: Any research to suggest that boys and girls do better in a particular type of school environment? There have been many books lately suggesting schools do not know how to consider the special education needs of boys. Are single sex schools best?

Jerry Mintz: No, I don't think so. I think that if a school individualizes its learning, those problems disappear.

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Washington, D.C.: What advice would you give to someone interested in pursuing a career in the field of alternative education?

Jerry Mintz: Probably they should connect with our network, go to our website, www.educationrevolution.org, get on the discussion groups, check the jobs section, visit local alternative schools, and perhaps intern at one. They will then know if this is for them.

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Bristow, Va.: Do you have an examples of schools which individualize education in the western side of Prince William? I have a similar situation with my son. Thank you!

Jerry Mintz: I'm not quite sure where that is. We usually would consult our database to answer this kind of question. We do know of many good schools in different parts of VA, MD, etc. You can find partial lists on our website under member schools and the list of democratic schools.

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Baltimore, Md.: Are you purporting that alternative/home school is the way to educate? Are you opposed to government supplied education?

Jerry Mintz: We support all learner centered approaches, approaches that empower students, public and private .There are thousands of good public alternatives

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Fairfax, Va. follow up: Following up - What is meant by a private democratic alternative?

Jerry Mintz: These are independent schools in which day to day decisions are made through a democratic process in which the students participate. You can see a list of many of them (some are public) on our website by clicking democratic education. Many of these school, although private, have a sliding scale for tuition or scholarships.

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Fairfax County, Va.: What would you recommend to the parents of a bright but strong-willed child who refuses to do any school work that doesn't interest her? The child will be entering our county's G/T program in the fall.

My answer would be to homeschool (it's working well for my family), but my friends want to work within the school system.

Jerry Mintz: I think your instinct is right. Being strong willed is an asset as long that the students knows that her freedom should not interfere with another's. This can work in homeschooling and in an alternative school.

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Arlington, Va. : Do you think military schools or boarding schools with military-type discipline can help a student who is smart but not motivated?

Jerry Mintz: Generally I don't think so, but each situation in individual. It partly depends upon the age of the student. But I find that virtually all students are motivate or become motivated when they have educational freedom.

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Falls Church, Va. : What things do you think should be left out of the public school curriculum? How do you feel about recess and physical education being taken out of public schools to leave more room for academics?

Jerry Mintz: Of course it is a tragic approach, foisted by traditional educators who don't know any better or may not care. In fact, play is one of the most important ways in which children learn.

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Kensington, Md.: I love the idea of a child-directed education, but the cost of a private school seems prohibitive. I am in Montgomery County, which supposedly has great public schools. What's the best approach to this issue - that this is the best money I could spend so it's worth it? Or do I have a chance of reforming the schools she attends? My guess is that the latter is not a possibility. Many thanks, and I appreciate your dedication to the topic.

Jerry Mintz: You may not be able to reform the schools, but if there is no good alternative or democratic school near you then there is a market for one.

One of the things we do here at AERO is help people start new educational alternatives. We have a special listserve with 30 groups on it at any give time, who are starting new schools and programs. And in September we will be offering an online course for people who want to start new alternatives. They could also be homeschool resource centers.

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Fairfax, Va.: I agree children are natural learners. That is why our daughter was in Montessri school thru kindergarten. She loved it, but was bored in public school first grade. And all thru elementary school until we got her in the gifted and talented program.

Jerry Mintz: That may work for a while. But it may not go far enough.

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Arlington, Va.: Could you please provide more discussion of how you are defining the alternative educational pathways?

I did my preK-Kindergarten in Montessori, attended public schools and TAG throughout high school, and finished with an IB diploma one of the top IB schools in the country.

While I was well served by the public schools, I certainly understand how others were not. In what ways are the alternatives different, and how can the lessons learned there be applied to the mainstream systems?

Jerry Mintz: Of course there is a big spectrum of alternative schools. IB is one and is pretty good when done well.

I wish I knew how to get these ideas into mainstream. I sometimes feel that the best way is to do something outside of the system to create competition.

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Alexandria, Va.: It's H. B. Woodlawn, not H. P. Woodlawn. Unfortunately, there's a huge waiting list.

Another independent alternative in Fairfax County is G.W. Community School.

Jerry Mintz: Thanks!

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Anonymous: What do the statistics say in regard to income and other related variables for home schooling, natural learning environment, etc. when gauging the success?

Jerry Mintz: the surprising thing is that it doesn't seem to affect achievement levels, especially when parents take a learner centered approach rather than "school at home."

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Fairfax, Va.: Would it be fair to say that you advocate having a concentrated dose of education that gives you all of the nutrition of an apple without all of the pulp? It's more efficient, and conceptually like just-in-time accounting, but it streamlines and advances more accelerated pupil?

Jerry Mintz: Yes, but I don't think it is just for the "more accelerated pupil," but for any student. Of course, they then become more accelerated!

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Falls Church, Va.: Do you know of an alternative High School on the campus of Greensboro College in NC? My niece just enrolled. IT seems like an appealing choice instead of the giant high school she was in. I think it is called Middle College

Jerry Mintz: I don't know of it, but just talked to someone in Greenboro who was looking for something. I'll tell them about it.

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Lancaster, Pa.: Homeschooling seems an obvious answer as to how to teach my children, but I object to the idea of not utilizing all the property tax money that we spend for public education. How can the system be reformed so that we don't have to just bypass it?

Jerry Mintz: It actually works that way in some other countries. And they also par a lot of the costs of private schools. But as I found recently in Australia, where they government covers up to 80% of private schools, they then want a lot more control of the curriculum. So it's a double edged sword.

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Jerry Mintz: I've enjoyed this session very much and appreciated the thoughtful questions. The chat is now over, but people can send us questions on www.educationrevolution.org or call us at 800 769-4171 if you are in the USA.

Bye!

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