Science News

Join Washington Post science writer Rick Weiss for a free-for-all discussion about Monday's Science page feature, recent science news, and the impact of last week's elections on science issues such as stem cell research and biotechnology.

Rick's recent articles include topics such as the sale of meat and milk from cloned animals, innovations in biotech crops, a new study focusing on the the restoration of sight in blind mice, and the discovery that elephants can recognize themselves in mirrors.

The transcript follows.

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Rick Weiss: Hello everyone, and welcome to another SciChat. There's been a lot of science in the news of late, from genetically engineered crops escaping into food, cloned animals being considered for the food supply, blind mice made to see again, and of course those stunning photos of praying mantises in this morning's paper. Not to mention talk of what the new Democratic Congress will mean for science in general, and in particular for stem cells, space exploration and the environment.

Like those mantids this morning, I am all ears!

Rick

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Laurel: A few news articles circulated back during the primary season that some politicians in traditionally-Republican Kansas had switched parties because they didn't like the anti-scientific slant of their party; most obviously, the teaching creationism in public schools. Is there polling data to suggest that "support for science" played a roll in last week's elections?

Rick Weiss: I have not seen very clean data on this, but people in science have told me they are encouraged by several aspects of the el;election. In Mo., of course, a stem cell-friendly initiative passed, and in general in both the House and the Senate there are more stem cell supporters than there were before. Probably just enough to override a presidential veto in the Senate, tho still about 40 votes short in the House. We will see in weeks to come if the more general dissatisfaction some have raised with "ideology over science" gets some direct attention. I predict it will, especially with regard to Congress's willing to take a serious look at global warming and energy efficiency.

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Laurel, Md.: Why do Post headlines and stories on contaminated spinach violate the rules of binomial nomenclature by failing to use italics, capitalizing the name of the species, and not spelling out the name of the genus at least once?

Rick Weiss: Those of us in the "science pod" try to pay attention to such stuff, but few outside our specialized circle -- including most editors -- are familiar with the rules, and we rarely get to see those stories before they run. But I will pass your msg up the chain to Editor executivis. (sorry, no ital. in this mode)

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Washington, D.C.: I would guess that every day more and more science news is being published; sometimes the most esoteric and oblique stories are the most elucidating and entertaining. Can't the Post expand their science reporting? It should be it's own multipage section. I know that means more work for you, but can't one convince your boss to expand the budget and hire more people?

Rick Weiss: Yours is one of two questions posted already today asking for more science news. While I am all in favor of this Full Employment Act for myself and my colleagues, The Post has a very fixed idea of what it wants to be known for, and that is politics. It is a strange place to work as a science reporter in that regard -- not that we don't get proper respect, because we do, but we work from very different points of view. Imagine how we science writers, who are wedded to evidence, feel every day as we read all these pundits talking off the top of their head. And getting better play than we do! It is tough. It would be great to have a larger section, like the NYT Science Times, but they have a staff of science writers up there in the Big Apple that is about five times as big as ours. So until you can convince the bean counters here that such coverage will pay off, I'm afraid you will have to get by with what you've got.

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Clone Question: I'm not sure if I understand the uproar about eating cloned meat -- if the animals are genetically the same, what is the harm to eating it? Or is this more of an ethical issue, such as the way many people shy away from eating veal?

Rick Weiss: I think there are two main issues. One is that although clones are genetically identical, they do have some modest molecular differences in the "decorations" or "on-off" status of some of their genes -- things known as epigenetic differences. No one is sure what difference that may make in terms of nutritional or other values -- probably none, as determined from tests so far, but it's an issue for some. Then there is the question of whether (as some believe) we "shouldn't" be gaining so much control over animal reproduction (a little late for that, if you've ever been to one of these factory farms) and whether (in the case of cloning super milk-producing cows) we really need so much more milk in the world, given current surpluses.

Mostly the science says No Problem, but food is a very emotional issue.

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Alexandria, Va.: In test plots of genetically altered crops, how do scientist control for wind dispersal of pollen from altered plants?

Rick Weiss: The Agriculture department sets rules for experimental test plots (so does EPA, for some) based on data about how the pollen from those kinds of plants generally moves around. The rules include such things as plant-free buffer zones beyond the distance that pollen might be expected to blow, and/or cutting down of nearby plants that might be inadvertent recipients of engineered pollen. These things work, often to a level of 99 percent or more. The problem, of course, is that if even a few pollen grains escape and fertilize a weedy relative of the crop, and if that new resulting plant has a significant advantage over its neighbors, then before long that experimental trait is popping up everywhere. If there is one lesson from the past decade of experiments with engineered crops, it is that pollen is impossible to completely contain.

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Takoma Park, Md.: Has the Post considered doing an article on the possible implications of genetically modified crops? Specifically, the implications of terminator (or suicide) gene seeds would be extremely informative, on an issue little covered in the mainstream press. Thanks.

Rick Weiss: It's been a few years since we've written about terminator technology, so named by opponents because, while it would help prevent the unwanted spread of engineered genes from plants, it would also prevent subsistence farmers and others from collecting seeds from their crops and planting them to get a new crop. Those seeds would be engineered to be sterile, so farmers would have to buy the (patented) seed again every year. Monsanto has promised not to use the technology, at least for now, tho there are fears it may come into use in the near future. We are watching the field (as it were) and will write if the current balance of power in that debate seems to be shifting.

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Washington, D.C.: Have you gotten a read on what the impact of the elections will mean for future appropriations to the National Institutes of Health and the Centers for Disease Control & Prevention?? Also, how will Congressional oversight of the pharmaceutical industry impact venture capital for start-up biotechnology companies?

Rick Weiss: It is too soon to predict how the elections will affect funding. Contrary to popular conception, Republicans -- tho arguably unfriendly to science in some ways -- have historically been big funders of NIH. I've heard various explanations for this. "Even Republicans get sick," is one. Another is, "Republicans don't like to support social services and health-related safety nets, so they put all that energy into just one big social service, the NIH." But it is true that finding for NIH has been flat for several years now, and it seems things could only get better from here. As for CDC, the poor stepchild of HHS, hard to say. It is chronically underfunded, for reasons that remain murky to me -- especially given current threats from TB, avian flu, AIDS, malaria etc. And I don't mean only in Africa, folks.

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Herndon, Va.: What is the significance of the fact that mouse vision was restored using transplated, differentiated cells rather than stem cells? Does this suggest that transplated cells are a viable alternative to stem cell research or that stem cell research must be expanded so that the donor cells can be grown to the differentiated phase?

Rick Weiss: The interesting thing about that "wee blind mice" study was that the transplanted cells had to be just the right age, or maturity, to restore vision. Too young and stem cellish and they did not survive in the eye. Too old and fully rod-ish and they could not make the proper neural connections. This is the way things are looking a lot these days. Stem cells themselves are too immature to know how to do the right thing. Many form tumors when transplanted. But too old is, well, too old. You know how it is. So in Goldilocks fashion, scientists are finding the cells that are just right. That does not mean that stem cells are any less important (whether embryonic or adult). You start with them, grow them just enough, then use them. That will be where the cure come from.

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Fayetteville, N.Y.: Would you and your family be willing to eat food from a cloned animal?

Rick Weiss: I find myself eating fewer and fewer animals, but would not mind trying a clone if it were a duplicate of some prize-winning, super delicious bull or something. I'd be curious, anyway. At the same time, I might not want to think about it too much. Which is how I feel about a lot of food we get these days. Spinach with E. coli. comes to mind.

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Alexandria, Va.: Do you know where I can buy my toddler some science-themed onesies and pajamas? He has a mountain of sports-themed togs.

Rick Weiss: What a great question. Perhaps Science Service, based in DC, and which sells science books and other science paraphernalia. Perhaps others have suggestions? Any of the museums in town?

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Ohio: Hi Rick - I am fascinated by the wealth of new science information. I do not currently subscribe to a science magazine. Could you suggest a good choice?

Rick Weiss: Science News magazine, where I used to work in the 1980s, is a 16-page weekly that is perfect for nonspecialists (or scientists wanting to keep up with things outside their field). It's been around forever and remains a great stalwart publication for lay understanding of science.

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Syracuse, N.Y.: Do you really think the new Democratic Congress will make a difference in terms of the availability of stem cell research?

Rick Weiss: In the end, I don't think the votes are there for a Congressional change or veto override (see post above) but states are getting more uppity about passing stem cell-friendly legislation and I'd expect to see more of that, and supporters are also starting to talk about pinning national legislation to another "must pass" bill, figuring the numbers on Capitol Hill are now high enough that it might get through that way without a fight.

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Takoma Park, Md.: Do you find that many publications covering science (New Scientist, Am Scientist, Science etc.) have an overly positive view of new technologies? It seems to take non-science related publications (such as newspapers) to point out the potential dangers of many new technologies.

Rick Weiss: Here at the newspaper we are constantly assaulted by salesmen for science, including scientists themselves and the science journals that publish their work, both of which which have a stake in getting news coverage and maintaining a science-friendly populace out there. That's their job, and that's okay with me, but as direct purveyors of science news to the public, the newspaper has a different role and we try to be a little more even handed. It is a tough call, because so much of what you are talking about is "potential." There are potential risks and potential benefits of all this new science. One wants to maintain enough enthusiasm so the science can reasonably go forward. Science, after all, is what has made this country economically great and a pretty comfortable place to live. But then there is the question of how cautious we should be as these things progress. The Europeans are much more wedded to the Precautionary Principle, which says go slow unless you are sure no harm will come. For better or worse, this is more a country of risk-takes. The trick for us in the news business is to watch for people (more often corporations) trying to shift the risk onto others, while trying to maintain the potential benefits (eg. profits) for themselves.

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More ink for science: I realize that I'm preaching to the choir, but here are two key points: Science is important to many aspect of politics: health care policy, education, immigration (H-1 visas for scientists). The Washington DC area has more PhDs per capita than any other local newspaper's circulation area. As one of these PhDs and a Washington Post subscriber for over 10 years, I want to read more science in the Post. How do I and others get this message across?

Rick Weiss: We science writers are aware of the science-rich audience out there. It is a great challenge, actually, to write about science in ways (and quantities)that satisfy the researchers at NIH, FDA, CDC, Ag, EPA, the biotech companies, all the medical schools in town, and so on, and also catch the eye and attention of everyone else just plunking 35 cents in the box, who might think they mostly want to read the sports section but who might be attracted to a story about (who knows?) the world's largest particle collider. If there were a big call for more science, from the public, directed to the publisher or the executive editors, perhaps that would move the needle. More important, I think we would need a business plan to ensure that a larger science section would pay for itself with science-y ads. There is also the Health section, which is about to get a new editor, and might help fulfill some of the needs you are mentioning. I am curious how people feel about that section.

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Calgary, Alberta, Canada: A few years ago it was discovered that, contrary to what had been previously thought, the universe is expanding at an ever-increasing rate. Early explanations for this have centered around some sort of "dark energy" pushing galaxies apart from inside the universe. Are you aware of any suggestions that the accelerating outward expansion might be caused by something pulling from outside the bounds of the known universe?

Rick Weiss: My understanding is that, pretty much by definition, science cannot talk about what is going on outside our universe. To paraphrase Rummy, we've got to go with the universe we've got. Anything beyond that is either supernatural (a science no-no) or perhaps ought to be brought into the family and considered part of our universe. So for now, dark energy, in-house, is where we are at. It is a huge amount of energy compared to the energy we can explain, and yet completely mysterious. I love that. It means we are nowhere near the end of the book.

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Bethesda, Md.: Wouldn't it be nice to get meat and vegetables irradiated so we can stop getting E. coli and Salmonellosis? Good article in NEJM that argues for getting past the irrational fears about using radiation to kill pathogens.

Rick Weiss: I agree that the arguments against irradiating food were mostly way off the mark (the food does not get radioactive!). But I have a question that perhaps you can answer: All these berries I buy now -- blueberries, raspberries, in little plastic boxes -- they never get moldy anymore like they used to. But they get very rubbery and tasteless. I wonder: Are these irradiated? If so, is the radiation process making them rubbery? Or is it just that they are months old, and still being sold because they are still mold free? Either way, things like this make me wonder if every great discovery is really so great. I miss those wonderful flavors that used to come with my almost-moldy berries.

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College Park: My father (a scientist) died a few months ago and since he grew up poor, I was thinking of donating a part of my inheritance to an organization that encourages poor children to learn about science. The Combined Federal Campaign just started in my office. Can you suggest one or two?

Rick Weiss: I don't know of any such organization but if someone else does, please let me know at weissr@washpost.com and I will pass this along to you if you contact me later.

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South Carolina: The fact that elephants can recognize themselves in mirrors is actually HUGE news, scientifically. They are displaying a level of intelligence known only so far in humans and apes. Do you think this will change elephant's status in circuses, as work animals, etc? Will this discovery, in your opinion, have any impact on the evolution debate?

Rick Weiss: I can't stand the thought of elephants wondering why they got stuck in a zoo, though I fear that on some level this is part of what is going on in those especially gray brains. But isn't that true at every level of life? I saw a gecko in a glass cage yesterday. I don't think it was thinking many highfalutin thoughts, but it sure wanted to get out.

May we all be free.

Thanks for joining me this hour.

Rick

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