Imus Controversy

Shock Jock Under Attack for Slur

As skittish advertisers began to pull out and calls for his resignation reverberated, embattled shock jock Don Imus yesterday continued a campaign of contrition over racially and sexually insensitive remarks he made about the Rutger's women's basketball team, even while insisting that he shouldn't lose his national television show and syndicated radio program.

Washington Post staff writer Paul Farhi was online Wednesday, April 11, at 1 p.m. ET to discuss the ongoing controversy.

Read More: Advertisers Pull Out of Imus Show ( Post, April 11)

Eugene Robinson ( Live Online, April 10)

A transcript follows.

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Paul Farhi: Greetings, all, and welcome to our special Don Imus edition. I think you know the basics of this story, so let's get right to it...

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Anonymous: Interesting reaction by some conservatives to the controversy. When a congressman said no one in Congress should be sworn in using a Koran (actually it was to just be for a photo op), he immediately was a guest on Fox News to explain his side. Fox News show hosts, hardly known for refraining from commenting on every aspect of the news, seem far more critical or quiet about Imus (nothing to do with the fact that he works for a competitor, of course). I do have the perfect replacement for Imus: Greaseman.

Paul Farhi: Yes. Greaseman. A very talented guy who never fully recovered from his Imus moment, despite a long (and sincere, I think) campaign of contrition (C of C). As for conservatives, yes, they seem to be standing fairly clear of this particular bit of wreckage. For now. I think we'll hear a kind of pushback soon, though.

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Kill Devil Hills, N.C.: Where can I get a list of advertisers on "Imus in the Morning"?

I want to boycott those advertisers who stick with Imus after this episode. MSNBC and CBS included; suspension won't cut it with me. That is the only way to fight this problem. The players had it right when they said whether he is fired or not is up to his employers and that is dictated by how much money he makes for them.

Paul Farhi: Well, I don't have such a thing, but you could contact CBS Radio in New York or MSNBC in New York if you really wanted one, I guess. And your attitude is the key to this whole affair: If more people were to rise up in anger at Imus' advertisers, Imus' two-week vacation would be a permanent one. Don't think that CBS and NBC aren't monitoring this closely. They are.

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Durham, N.C.: Of all of the offensive, racist, sexist, homophobic, generally hateful things that Imus and other shock jocks (and radio "talk" hosts) have spouted over the years, what makes these comments so bad that he is being punished? I am in no way defending Imus (in fact, I've never heard the show), but I've heard far worse.

Paul Farhi: Very interesting question. We puzzled over this yesterday. There is, certainly, no shortage of outrageous things said on the air by shock jocks (and others). Our guess -- and it's just that -- is that Imus just got caught picking on the wrong victims at the wrong time. But context is important. Imus has a long track record of saying nasty stuff. It's not like this was out of the blue.

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Gaithersburg, Md.: Every time there's a transgression such as the Imus fiasco, our society goes into a collective tsk, tsk. In the end, nothing changes, e.g. Mel Gibson, Michael Richards, Jimmy the Greek.

Oh, there's an uproar, great public discourse, sabre rattling, etc., as there should be ... but what becomes of it? As most things of this nature, there are no easy answers, just hard questions.

Paul Farhi: I disagree. These things damage the perpetrators, to one degree or another. Trent Lott lost his position as majority leader after his Strom Thurmond birthday comments; Lott is still a senator, but will never be as prominent as he once was. Jimmy the Greek? His career was ended by his comments. Michael Richards? He was probably done as an actor, but now he's really done. And so on.

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Washington, D.C.: I agree that Imus's remark was offensive and disgusting. However, I think The Post is hypocritical about the terms he used. In the Style section, critics often review performances and recordings of so-called rap "artists" who routinely use the term "ho." I've never noticed that any reviewer voiced outrage at the reference. And what about the millions of rap fans out there -- I don't hear them complaining about the insults to women. We seem to have two standards going here.

Paul Farhi: We do. There's no question about it. It's just hypocritical to beat up on Imus, and give a pass to the bilge that's routine elsewhere. It's all basically wrong.

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Kill Devil Hills, N.C.: Thanks, this is an important issue to me as a woman. We women need to step forward on this.

Paul Farhi: Interesting, I think, that the racism angle has gotten more analysis than the sexism angle. You've got a two-fer here. And with just three words!

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Free Speech: I'm a little confused by those who say that if Imus is fired, censorship prevails. Imus can say what he wants to be sure -- that's his right. But I see him and his show as a product in a market-based economy and if the buying public doesn't want him, for whatever reason, then bye, bye. Just like New Coke (you young kids can Google that if you don't know what it was). So, clearly, I would argue that we are confusing marketing with the free speech debate. The Imus show is a business first and last. If Imus has a deep philosophical conviction that he has the right to refer to young women in derogatory terms, he can still do it, but just maybe not for so much money.

Paul Farhi: Totally agree. You can have all the free speech you want. But there are consequences for your free speech. Such as me telling you what *I* think about your free speaking. And corporations have the right to exercise their freedom to can anyone who doesn't serve their profit-seeking ways. And, incidentally, don't NBC and CBS deserve a few spanks here? Didn't they countenance Imus for years, despite all the criticism he's received because it was, you know, very profitable for them?

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Washington, D.C.: What about the producer of Imus's radio program -- wasn't it the producer McGuirk who first referred to them as "hos"? Has he apologized?

Paul Farhi: Another interesting angle. Bernard McGuirk (and Sid Rosenberg, another Imus sidekick) have always been Imus' racist/sexist enablers. They're the ones who typically say something outrageous, and then Imus responds to them. That's what happened in the current case. And, no, I've heard nothing about McGuirk or Rosenberg being disciplined in this instance (although Rosenberg was fired, and then brought back, for an earlier incident).

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Takoma Park, Md.: I think this was more a case of the straw that broke the camels back.

You got him on "60 Minutes" admitting he called black people the "N" word.

You got him calling Gwen Ifill a house cleaning lady ...

But this time he picked on some kids who up until this were on a once in a lifetime high. And he killed it for them. They were not politicos, or even media personalities.

Paul Farhi: That's our theory, too. A bunch of nice kids, who were innocently victimized. It looks particularly terrible and mean. It's one thing to whack a politician--isn't that what they're there for?--but it's another thing to take on some otherwise anonymous young women who are so clearly deserving of much better.

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Washington, D.C.: Where does it end? If Imus is fired, then should we ban all rappers from coming out with albums with slurs? How about shows like the "Sopranos" that put New Jersey and Italians in a bad light? I am from Jersey originally. Does this then make me, an innocent person, a victim of numerous slanderous and hateful remarks because people praise the "Sopranos"? Should every columnist who has praised the "Sopranos" be fired? No. If you don't like rap music that uses slurs, don't buy it. If you don't like Imus, don't listen. If you don't like the "Sopranos," don't watch. Very simple.

Paul Farhi: I don't think we have to fire everyone who offends us, no. But there's nothing wrong with criticizing, and continuing to criticize, those who are doing something offensive. I think that kind of debate is what a civilized society is all about. We're arguing, all the time, about where the lines are. And we should be.

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Rockville, Md.:"if the buying public doesn't want him..."

Do we know if that is true or not? It may take some research. Or ratings.

Paul Farhi: Well, there's a market for everything in a capitalist society, including the marketplace of ideas. Some of it's wholesome, some of it's less so. There's no law that says Imus has to have a network radio and TV program. And it's not just about ratings and advertising alone. Corporations are very protective of their images. If they think something is damaging it, they act.

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Rockville, Md.: Why is it that the media is only now making such a big deal about the comments he made when this guy has been making racially insensitive remarks his whole career! One has to wonder if there are other interests at work here.

Paul Farhi: What other interests do you mean? I'm curious...

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Anonymous: I recall a story several years ago where a teacher, I believe it was in New York, used the words similar to what Imus used (are we allowed to write them in print?) and there was an uproar. I have to admit, in my ignorance, that was the first time I had ever heard of that expression, and I now realize from that story that the expression is offensive and hurtful to some people. Yet, when I hear far more offensive words, including the "N" word used, even in jest or as a word of affection even, I wonder if someone would please explain to me the context of the degrees of offensivness between "acceptable" uses of words and unacceptable uses.

Paul Farhi: Well, as your question implies, the line is constantly moving. What's acceptable in, say, a bar, might not be acceptable on a national cable TV program (although cable TV these days sounds much worse than most bars). I guess the answer is, it all depends. It depends on the time, place, audience, speaker, listener(s), and what's said.

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Silver Spring, Md.: Rap sales were down 21 percent last year.

On track for down 30 percent this year.

I just cannot believe that people are not doing any research on the subject of the lyrics in hip hop.

There is a TON of backlash and there has been for a while.

An Internet search of "rap sales" is all a person needs to do.

Paul Farhi: Yeah, but all record sales were down 20 percent in the first three months of the year, so I'm not sure we can read too much into any "backlash" against rap, per se. Fact is, rap has a huge market--a worldwide market. And it's more than just music. It's fashion, it's language, it's attitude and personality. And, yes, there has been a ton of backlash against it. Interestly, the phrase that got Imus in trouble seems to me to be a validation, of sorts, of the way rap has infiltrated the general culture. Would a 67-year-old white man be talking that way if rap hadn't made him aware of, and perhaps comfortable with, that kind of junk talk?

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Arlington, Va.:"It's just hypocritical to beat up on Imus, and give a pass to the bilge that's routine elsewhere. It's all basically wrong."

I look forward to the FIRST Post music review which slams a CD or concert performance for racist and sexist language. Maybe as soon as Friday's weekend section?

Paul Farhi: I can't cite a specific review. But it wouldn't be a first to criticize rap this way in the Post.

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Washington, D.C.: Figuring that this will be a VERY busy chat with LOTS of questions, I was wondering what your turnaround capapcity was from submittal to published answer, so this is a test. Remember, this is only a test: Submitted 1:18pm EST

Paul Farhi:11 minutes from post to answer. Okay by you?

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Just Sad: For these talented women at Rutgers and for the many, many other talented black women of this country this comment is just sad. It states so loudly, so clearly that no matter what you achieve, that no matter how hard you work, there are many who will view you as no more than a prostitute with ugly hair. And those who view you that way are people with power, people in this country whose voice is heard, people employed by the nation's largest televison and radio neworks.

How can the public, the advertisers, the corporate executives not see that this goes so against what our culture claims to demand, to be judged on our merits not our skin color.

Paul Farhi: Well said. Thanks.

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Rochester, N.Y.: I do not have a strong opinion about whether Imus should be fired, suspended further, etc., but there is one thing that I find very troubling: the number of supposedly liberal pundits and former Democratic operatives -- James Carville and Paul Begala come to mind -- who are rushing to his defense. African Americans are an important constituency for Democrats and many African Americans (such as Michael Wilbon and Gwen Ifill) have forcefully condemned Imus (quite convincingly, in my view).

Here's my problem: where does the loyalty of Paul Begala, James Carville and the rest lie? With their "pal" Imus or with the voters they're supposed to be looking out for? Do they care more about shmoozing with other celebrities or more about the needs of the voters who, in effect, pay their salaries? As a Democrat, this makes me so mad.

Paul Farhi: There's a real media-politico insider cult around Imus that is/has been kind of troubling. Lots of prominent folks have been semi-regulars on his show. While they can certainly distance themselves from this whole mess (Jeff Greenfield did a pretty good job of it the other day, I thought), there's no question that there is, and has been, some mutual enabling going on. Or at least some people don't look very good now given their close association with Imus over the years.

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Arlington, Va.: I think it's funny that people make such a big deal about wanting to fire Imus. Everyone knows what will happen. He'll be off the air for a year at most, and then sign a lucrative contract with someone else. Money talks, bigotry walks.

Paul Farhi: Possibly true. But if so, I predict it will be LESS lucrative than his current deal. And on a smaller station. And with a smaller audience. See: Greaseman.

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Arlington, Va.: Has there been any indication or would you like to fancy a guess as to whether Imus will enter rehab and/or acknowledge that he has problems.

It appears to be the 'thing to do' for celebrities or faux celebrities.

Paul Farhi: Yes! Part of any Campaign of Contrition is the Confession of Human Weakness. But I won't get too self-righteous about human weakness, having the usual God-given share of my own.

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Washington, D.C.: One of things that I do like about the YouTube and blogging revolution is that it does hold people accountable in a way never seen before, when the ability to control mass media was held in relatively few hands. I imagine it's still difficult for George Allen and now Don Imus to comprehend how a few words have spun a situation out of their control, but I ultimately think it's a good thing.

Paul Farhi: Great point. Now that we can SEE the thing in question, it takes on a whole new significance, and quite possibly distorts its significance. Would, for example, Trent Lott's statements have come back to bite him if CSPAN hadn't rolled the tape on it? Same with YouTube, only a hundred times moreso.

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Pittsburgh, Pa.: Who besides my hero Cal Ripken Jr. will have the intestinal fortitude NOT to appear on Imus' show, if it does return? Seems to me that if Imus can't get the same level of celebs on-air that he once did, his ratings will decline, which will affect his show's ad revenues, which in turn ... etc., etc., etc.

Paul Farhi: Yes, part of the death spiral for him. This is part of why I'm giving Imus barely 50-50 odds of survival now. The larger part is the advertiser defections: If they continue to bail, there will be no point in M$NBC or CB$ standing by him.

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Washington, D.C.: While it is true that sometimes rap lyrics are objectionable, I think it is unfair to judge hip-hop culture as a whole. I would wonder if the person who sarcastically referred to this music as "art" has the foggiest clue about hip-hop. There are many many artists and MC's out there who are pushing a positive message. Please take a minute to educate yourself about the history of the movement and some of the artists before you go spouting such ignorance.

Paul Farhi: Very true. Rap isn't just gangsta stuff. There's far more to it than that. It's like saying, "radio is all about shock jocks." Of course it isn't.

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Arlington, Va.: Who else has a rabbi and a priest talk for more that 15 minutes with little commercial interruption? Who else will air parts of sermons by famous black ministers, and who else gets an appreciative call from a minister's widow the day after the minister dies? There will be lots of positive, uplifting gaps that will not be filled by anyone else should Imus have to hit the road.

Paul Farhi: This needs to be said, too. As we tried to point out in our story this morning, Imus' history of racial relations/ commentary is far more complicated than reducing everything to just three words. He's done some very fine things.

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Houston, Tex.: I often hear the whining complaint that caucausians can't say the same words that rappers, etc., throw around, claiming a double-standard and even racism. Not even getting into the absurdness of the "racism" claim for now, but my question is, given that such words are bad, why on earth would they want to stoop down to that level? Will it really be progress if white shock jocks can openly say the N-word, as they seem to want to? In fact I daresay rappers do not even come close to reflecting the mainstream black citizen.

Paul Farhi: Right. If any person, black or white or otherwise, talked like a rapper, you'd instantly peg him as foul-mouthed. As my mother (and probably yours) used to say to me, maybe that kind of talk is okay among your hoodlum friends, but don't bring that around here. And "here" in this case would be just about everywhere respectable--school, the workplace, church, etc. etc.

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Chelsea Clinton: This mess is similar to the hateful press that made fun on Chelsea in 1992 when her father ran. It did not matter AT ALL that Clinton's child was a bit awkward-looking at an awkward stage. Yet the press made fun of her. Finally, the hateful comments ended and he went on to be president ...

Are these young women knockouts? What difference does it make? They are college athletes. Yeh for them! Let's focus on what matters not simply on a woman's looks. Comments like the one made by the Imus producer are offensive because of all the aforementioned reasons. They are also offensive because once again if a woman is not great looking in the eyes of a morning DJ then her accompishments don't count. Sad.

Paul Farhi: Yes, sad. It's like Hillary Clinton. For no other reason than because she is a woman, she has to endure some of the most vile insults that would never be directed at a man. From Imus. From talk shows. From lots of regular folks. This is not an endorsement of Hillary Clinton, mind you. This is an endorsement of something more elevated than the base stuff that passes for political dialogue.

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Warrenton, Va.: What I find astonishing is that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are accepted as the arbiters of discretion and political correctness. Why isn't the media calling them out?

Paul Farhi: I do believe the phrases "Tawana Brawley" and "Hymietown" have been heard in context with their names lately. Despite those unsavory associations, can you say that either Jackson or Sharpton are wrong in this case?

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22015: First of all, Imus made an extremely stupid remark, no question. However, distinction must be made between someone with a hateful, racist agenda and someone who's being a smarta--. Imus insults everyone, including his wife but it's just an extension of people like Groucho Marx and Don Rickles. Remember, all humor is based on something bad happening to somebody else. In this instance, Imus went too far, seems to have realized it, and is taking the proper steps.

Paul Farhi: Yes, I do think contrition counts for something. But Imus is neither Groucho (whom I never heard being racist or truly sexist) nor Rickles (whose act was very broad and obvious, unlike Imus, who seemed to really mean what he said).

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The "rehab" alibi: I think people should be a little respectful here, even of Imis. He had a long and notorious struggle with addiction problems, which he apparently has overcome. To cynically claim he'll go into rehab for this is tacky.

As for his career, I'd point out that he's actually at an age that a firing here could really end his career. Hopefully, he'll keep that in mind and change his ways.

Paul Farhi: Right. Imus has been sober for something like 17 years, after being fired back in the late 1970s from a radio gig in New York for alcohol and/or cocaine addiction. Good on him for his discipline and will power.

As for changing his ways, he's been down this road before. As we wrote in our story today, he "pledged" to avoid the really nasty stuff. Not sure how many chances he deserves.

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As we tried to point out in our story this morning:... in the second or third to last paragraph. the Post and most other media has been extremely biased in this story. Sure, what he said was wrong, but regular news articles are not meant to judge first, then at the end of the column say, "oh yeah, he has done such and such good things too." Unfair.

Paul Farhi: Well, wait a second. The story isn't about his career of good works. That's context and background meant to help the reader understand the "news." And the news is/was that this guy was on the hot seat for something he said last week. I think we played it in about the right order.

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Pittsburgh: Do you think that if Imus's show returns and some politicans and journalists appear on it, their reputations will be harmed by it? I certainly hope so.

Paul Farhi: I wonder if anyone will dare to go on now that he's so radioactive. Or if they do, like Greenfield, whether they'll try to distance themselves from him.

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Washington, D.C.: Howard Kurtz of the Post was on Imus' program quite often. Thanks to great questions and good back-and-forths, we got more into what Kurtz wrote. Where will Kurtz go where, frankly, he would get even more readers interested in his next columns?

Paul Farhi: I wouldn't worry about Howie. He's a multimedia wonder--radio, tv, print, online. He does it all, and all extremely well.

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Raleigh, N.C.: I am terribly torn on this issue. There is no reason for such racist, sexist terms to be used. But I'm bothered that there's no outcry against McGuirk. He definitely caused the escalation to occur, and he is more than just a producer, he's also a "personality" on the Imus show. I'm also torn due to the amazing body of postive, charitable work done by Imus and his wife Diedre. The Imus Ranch alone is a testament to his willingness to give to others. He has brought a great deal of attention to his wife's work in educating the general public about what we can to do be more environmentally conscious.

And with all the other terribly racist and sexist things coming across radio airwaves in the guise of music, I almost think the reaction is over the top, unless all media outlets owned by MSN or CBS immediately cease the sale of any form of media using such terminology for women in general, and African American women specifically.

Paul Farhi: Well, you've neatly summarized the "tensions" inherent in this incident. But it would be nice if everyone cleaned up his/her/their acts just a bit. Crude and coarse has its place, but unfortunately it seems to have too many places these days.

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Paul Farhi: Thanks for the great questions and comments, folks. This has been a wonderful give and take. I'd like to go longer, but I've got to see what the I-man is up to today. And here comes my plug: C'mon back next Tuesday at 1 p.m., when I do my regular Station Break chat. We can do more Imus, or less, then. In the meantime, regards to all...Paul.

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