China: Flying Industry, Failing Families

Travis Fox, a washingtonpost.com videojournalist, was online Tuesday, June 12 at 1 p.m. ET to discuss his special report with Post correspondent Maureen Fan on how China's economic boom has been paired with a disintegration of the family-centered social structure.

Redefining China's Family (washingtonpost.com, June 12)

The transcript follows.

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Travis Fox: Hello everyone -- thanks for clicking here. I hope you've had the chance to check out some of the videos that are part of our China project. If not, please take a look and let's talk about some of the issues we covered. Social change in China is complex and important issue. So let's get started

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Glenelg, Md.: Travis, why do the rural women seem to not go with their husbands to the city?

Travis Fox: There are several reasons. It is difficult for the wives (and children) to get residency permits for the cities, which means children are unable to attend school there. They typically want to continue to farm and maintain their land. In years past, it was very rare to see migrant husbands and wives together in the cities, but it's becoming more common.

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New York: I notice you didn't cover any men's issues. For example, the birth rate is 120 male babies for every 100 female babies. How is that affecting men's prospects for marriage/family? Also, you covered how divorce is affecting women -- how is it affecting men?

Travis Fox: Thanks for the question. As you point out, the population difference between men and women is an important issue in China and merits additional reporting. As for the effect the higher divorce rate is having on men, what we found is that the stigma of divorce is much more of an issue for women. Men have it much easier; that's why we focused more on women and how this is changing.

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Bethesda, Md.: My impression from several trips to Korea, Shanghai and Hong Kong is that the significance of family structure in East Asia was influenced heavily historically by Confucian rules of social relationships -- but that these rules were crafted for more stagnant agrarian societies, where one's economic/social position was determined unalterably by birth. There was little mobility, save for a few peasants who may have become scholars.

Today, East Asia's fast-paced urban, industrial, capitalistic culture is undermining or twisting traditional Confucian norms. For instance, younger generations who have moved away from home for education and work in the cities might not meet filial responsibilities for older parents, so personal savings and autonomy become more significant, weakening the ties of multigenerational families -- as in Western industrial countries. This process seems to have progressed furthest in China, perhaps because the turmoil of the cultural revolution and Marxist doctrine in past decades.

On the other hand, some elements of Confucianism persist in corrupted form, such as extravagant gifts for bosses in most job situations -- but even that is gradually giving way. Do you agree on this broad outline of the evolution underway in China and throughout East Asia?

Travis Fox: I think your analysis is very informed -- we heard similar thoughts from many of experts we interviewed for this project. They all emphasize the Cultural Revolution as the most important catalyst for this change, but many feel we are going through another significant change now with the booming Chinese economy. One government official we talked was frustrated by what he felt was the abandonment of Confucian values in China -- he said that other, more developed East Asian countries had been able to preserve these traditions better than China.

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Los Angeles: While I support the free market and would call my economic views capitalist, China exemplifies the race-to-the-bottom, market-worship that exemplifies unrestrained capitalism in all it's destructiveness. In short, the family -- man, woman, children -- is the most important unit of human society, above the state, industry and all other societal organizations.

Anything that denigrates or makes family life difficult is a social negative. China, with the evil of state-supported "communism" and the destructive force of unregulated market capitalism, has unleashed a whirlwind upon the family. The U.S., with our slide towards unregulated capitalism and our secular, family-denigrating culture, should pay heed to the social destruction occurring in China. Whether it's the economic imperative of two-wage earner families, the evils of abortion and contraception to limit family size or a tax burden placed by the state on the family, the U.S. quickly is adopting the Chinese economic and government models, to our eventual detriment.

Travis Fox: This is the pessimistic view of the situation in China. Some of the people we met and interviewed would agree with you, others not -- I don't think Wu Meifen, who is the main subject in the video about women, would agree with you. There are signs that the government in China is concerned about these social changes and is working to reinforce traditional values. Toward the end of the video on the elderly, we talk about the government's efforts to create a "harmonious society" and promote filial piety.

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A Chinese living in the District: First of all, I really enjoyed reading all the articles and watching the video clips. Thank you so much for your great work and I couldn't appreciate more how important it is to profile the profound changes that are taking place in China. Your work also puts me in touch with the pulse of the society that I left behind many years ago.

I'm surprised to see the existence of private marriage counseling services. It used to be all government-operated, and the only advice they gave out was "don't divorce." The man in that piece mentioned that they only advise 20 percent of the people who walked in to get a divorce -- that's another welcoming change. The fact the divorce rate is so high these days, I think, is partially because all of a sudden divorce is not a taboo anymore and couples don't even think twice when they get a divorce. They also don't know where to go to get help (other than the government). I hope these nongovevernmental counseling service will help lowering the divorce rate somewhat. Thanks again for the great work. Would love to see more like this on washingtonpost.com, on any country/society going through changes similar to China's.

Travis Fox: Thank you for watching! I would say that divorce is becoming less taboo, especially in Shanghai (where the video took place) but there is still much more stigma attached to divorce in China than in the West. It was difficult for us to find women who were willing to talk about divorce. Wu Meifen, the subject of the video, is a bit usual in China for her willingness to talk about these issues that confront many other women.

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Bethesda, Md.: Travis, great work as usual! I was wondering what kind of effect China's one-child only policy is having on the country's social structure. In my travels to China, it seems the grandparents dote on the child while the parents are working. What happens to these kids when they grow up?

Travis Fox: Thanks. Among the effects of the one-child policy is the burden that it will put on the single child to care for both parents in old age. Traditionally, the burden was spread among multiple children. There is not a comprehensive social security program or even enough nursing homes. China is a country that is getting older each year as a result of the one-child policy, so these issues will become even more important in the future.

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Great Barrington, Mass.: I was surprised to hear how much the people in the videos seem to be on their own regarding social services in a "communist" society. Is this a recent development, or had it always been this way? Did this seem to be an issue with the people you spoke to?

Travis Fox: This was a surprise for me as well. It's an issue in China. As I mentioned before, there isn't a comprehensive social security program. So for example, the farmers we interviewed in the migrant workers video only can depend on their children to take care of them in old age (they will have no income). There are pension programs for workers for the state, but as some of the old factories close down some pensions are drying up. But overall, I think it's fair to say that the government is becoming less involved in social issues. The ease of divorce now is a good example of that.

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Indianapolis: With the Chinese "one child" policy, will the Chinese words for "niece" and "nephew" disappear?

Travis Fox: I hear this will be the case but as I am not an expert in Mandarin, so I can't say for sure. Any one else?

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New York: Hi Travis. I always enjoy watching your videos, and this is no exception. I've just watched the first one, about migrant workers, which was great! I'll bookmark the page and watch the others later. Thanks!

Travis Fox: Thanks, glad you watched. The idea behind this project is that it will be linked to all of Maureen Fan's articles going forward (she is based in Beijing and spends a lot of her time covering social change) so if you don't get through all the videos today, you'll have additional chances as Maureen writes more articles...

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New York: Related to men being divorced: When I lived in China, there was a great deal of shame for men (at least the ones I knew) in being divorced by their wives -- it meant they were not "man enough." It's really too bad that you didn't dig into this topic deeper.

Travis Fox: Good point. I would have liked to dig deeper in many different directions...

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Tucson, Ariz.: Filial piety seems to be shifting to "everything for the child," from "past" to "future" -- if one has to choose, the "future" wins. In the simple village life of tradition, one did not have to choose. Education of the young was a simple, basic matter. But if in this "Friedman-flat" world, education has been equated with money (nothing is "simple"). If a family, husband and wife, both choose to "work" (outside the apartment, not house) to be able to afford to educate their child -- leaving a parent alone all day untended -- is that "not caring for the parent" or "caring for the future of the child"? There are no easy answers. China always has valued tradition/the past as the essential "social glue." But now, the better future is totally dependent on education of the young -- not just for China, but the world.

Travis Fox: Thanks for your thoughts...

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Washington, D.C.: The Chinese have a unique and recent history of how to induce and then manage unprecedented cultural change. Good or bad, the Communist revolution changed China and its family behaviors significantly. Why is this most recent change different for China itself and for its families?

Travis Fox: I think you have to view the current changes not as distinct from the earlier changes (most notably the Cultural Revolution) but as a progression. And it's worth questioning whter these changes are created by the government or are a byproduct of the economic changes that the government is promoting. As any visitor to China immediately will notice, change is everywhere. We tried to go a bit deeper and look at some of the changes that are not as obvious as construction cranes.

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Washington, D.C.: I'm not sure why it matters. I think I'd like to hear more about how the Chinese are taking our jobs and threatening our military dominance.

Travis Fox: As China becomes a more significant player on the world stage, it's imperative for Americans and others to have a deeper understanding of China.

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Forest, Va.: China's economy, urban society, and family life is changing rapidly -- as is their relationship towards the rest of the world. Chinese are moving from the familiar past through a somewhat turbulent present towards the unknown future -- except that they expect to achieve a higher standard of living when it's all said and done. And the pace of change is quickening.

One hopes for China that they will find a new equilibrium, between the pull of the "new," the "better," the "latest," etc., and the universal need for stability and peacefulness. It's a daunting challenge that we in the West also confront. I guess that the secret is to pull back on your craving for the latest and greatest, slow down, and kick back and relax a bit. Certainly as we grow older, nature forces us to slow down gradually, and eventually, to die -- making room for future generations on this planet.

Travis Fox: Thank you for your thoughts.

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Philadelphia: Hi Travis. Just saw the new work -- it's fantastic! I was wondering if you felt any effects of censorship or the government observing or wanting to direct your experience as you worked. Also, will your video be available to Chinese viewers logging onto the Internet?

Travis Fox: It was both easy and difficult to work in China with a video camera. It was tough -- bureaucratically -- to get interviews and official permission, etc, but rather easy to go out with a video camera, interview people on the street, etc. Can't say if the government was observing me (not that I noticed) but they didn't direct us in any way. Social change is not as controversial of an issue as others are for journalists in China.

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Kansas City, Mo.: "With the Chinese 'one child' policy, will the Chinese words for 'niece' and 'nephew' disappear?" Actually, when I was in China I was surprised at just how many kids had brothers and sisters, despite the policy. Also, Taiwan -- in order to show they are not communist -- has no population policy despite a population that is growing out of control. Big families there.

Travis Fox: Good points. I also found families with more than one child. Some people have more and pay the fine, others can have more depending on loopholes or local officials -- so I guess "niece" and "nephew" will live on!

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Travis Fox: Thanks to everyone who wrote in. Sorry I couldn't get to every question. I've gotta run, but please continue writing your thoughts in the comments section below the videos. Thanks!

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Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions. washingtonpost.com is not responsible for any content posted by third parties.