Harry Potter and the Future of Children's Books

Can Harry Potter count reinvigorating the publishing industry and getting kids excited about reading among his heroic accomplishments? Washington Post staff writer Bob Thompson was online Thursday, July 19, at 11 a.m. ET to discuss what the end of the Harry Potter series means for both the book business and the interest of children in reading.

A transcript follows.

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Bob Thompson: Hi everybody and welcome to the land of Pottermania. By way of introduction and full disclosure, let me say that in addition to being a Post reporter who covers books and publishing, I am, in my private life, a reader and admirer of J.K. Rowling's books. My daughters, now 17 and nearly 16, were the right age for Harry when he first came out, and we've been reading the books as a family ever since.

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Boston: In view of fear of revelation of any plot points about Book 7, could you assure us upfront that you will carefully choose questions so that the discussion does not inadvertently reveal the final book -- I'm in a semi internet blackout but I'd love to read the discussion you're about to have.

Bob Thompson: Hi Boston -- Let's deal with this right away. No spoilers here. I'll check the incoming questions carefully for them.

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Baltimore: I admit it, I'm weak. I downloaded one of those torrents full of pictures of pages last night. As I was squinting at the blurry, glary photos, I noticed my mouse was moving sluggishly. Quick virus scan discovered that some helpful person planted a virus in the stream.

I purged the virus and the file, and remain unspoiled except for the chapter titles. I now want to thank that hacker who planted the virus, for keeping me unspoiled until I get the book in my grubby little paws. Never thought I'd be happy to get a computer virus.

Bob Thompson: That's a REALLY good reason to avoid that stuff. Thanks for the warning

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London: Hopefully the end of the HP series will mean that children and adults will look at other author's work! As an author, I'm hoping that diversification will lead to lesser known writers getting a look in. Whatever one's views on the phenomenon of the HP series, it's certainly opened up the market in terms of making crossover acceptable. Philip Pullman has done the same with the "Dark Materials" trilogy, and to a lesser extent, Mark Haddon with "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night" novel. It's wonderful that adults now feel comfortable reading books originally intended for a younger market. I hope they'll embrace "The Stonewylde Series" in the same spirit.

Bob Thompson: Philip Pullman's publishers are certainly hoping the same thing, though he's doing pretty well on his own and the forthcoming film version of "The Golden Compass" should offer a major boost. Pullman's books, which are very different from Rowling's, are wonderful.
I don't know the Stonewylde books -- could you tell us a bit more?

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Arlington, Va.: I've always been suspicious of the claim that the Harry Potter books are advancing an interest in reading in our society. Doesn't the evidence (what little evidence there is) in effect show the opposite? A recent NEA report shows a significant decline in the reading of literature during the period of Potter-mania. And anecdotally, I know quite a few people (many of them adults) who have read all the HP series -— and who are waiting for Amazon to deliver the latest installment —- but who otherwise read nothing but magazines and other ephemera, and who express no desire whatsoever to change their habits. Sadly, I think the recent craze has everything to do with the hype and nothing to do with serious reading.

Bob Thompson: Hi Arlington -- You're not alone in this view, though my own is a bit different. I think there's just too much anecdotal evidence (from booksellers, parents and children themselves)to deny that Potter has spurred some reading. (There's also some data in a study Scholastic commissioned from the market research firm Yankelovich Inc that's fairly impressive.) And Dana Gioia of the NEA, which did the forthcoming study you're referring to (it's not actually out yet, so we have only Gioia's summarized conclusions to go on)says that what scares him is how much reading would have declined WITHOUT Harry Potter.
Regarding the hype: It's intense and annoying. But it's important to remember that the Potter phenomenon started not because of hype but because readers (and independent booksellers) loved the first couple of books.

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Baltimore: Did you see the article about the 25 percent reduction in violent trauma injuries on Harry Potter release weekends?

Harry Potter, good for the body and the brain!

Bob Thompson: Nope, missed that one. Sounds a bit like the stories on increased spousal abuse during the Super Bowl, though -- and that turned out not to be true

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Munich, Germany: Sometimes I wonder if it will take another multimedia extravaganza to encourage young people (and many adults) to read. For publishers and writers following in the footsteps of Harry Potter, to have the same success, won't future marketing campaigns have to be even more colorful and splashy than for Harry Potter?

Bob Thompson: Hello, Munich -- I can't predict the future (and publishers say over and over again that they can't either). But my guess is that there will be a lot of children's books that do pretty wall (with plenty of marketing, but not at Harry scale) before anything like Harry comes along again. One example already out there is the German writer Cornelia Funke. She's very popular here now (and it's worth noting that her books might never have been translated and marketed in America if it weren't for Harry Potter), but she's still not close to Rowling in terms of sales or name recognition.

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South Riding, Va.: I have enjoyed the Harry Potter series and found listening to the audio version of the books a good way to pass the time on long drives to Chicago and other far away places.

Are there any other series of books in the works that may be able to capture the attention of readers the way Harry Potter did?

Thanks.

Bob Thompson: I agree about the audio books, South Riding -- my kids love them, and we listened to the "Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire" audiotape (if I'm remembering right) on a long drive before we read the actual book.
As for other books in the works, I've already touched on that, but the short version is: not that I know of, on Harry's scale.
By the way, Philip Pullman's books, mentioned above, are very well done in the audio version as well.

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Arlington, Va.: Thanks for your response to my earlier question. But I need to make a major clarification: The NEA report I referred to isn't the forthcoming one you mentioned in your article. It's the Reading At Risk report that NEA issued two years ago. As the title suggests, it shows that reading is on the decline. . . fairly strong evidence that it'll take more than Harry Potter to resurrect reading in our society. I don't know if you can accommodate links, but posters can find the report here (pdf).

Bob Thompson: Thanks for the clarification, Arlington. The new study is actually a "study of studies," which will combine and summarize a lot of government and some private reading research. But the bottom line, unfortunately, will be that reading -- especially among teens -- is still on a downward track.

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Baltimore:

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/GeneralPediatrics/tb/2382

"That's the opinion of researchers here, who found that when the latest installments of the Harry Potter books came out, the number of kids showing up in the emergency room with broken bones, sprains, scrapes and bruises went down significantly.

Apparently, kids were just so wild about Harry that they didn't have time to ride a skateboard down a flight of stairs, or weave a scooter through heavy traffic. "

Bob Thompson: Thanks, Baltimore. Sounds like maybe I was being too flip about the super bowl thing.

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Bethesda, Md.: Have statistics shown that more Harry Potter books have been read since the movies started?

Bob Thompson: Sales of the books do go up when the movies are released, yes.

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Seattle: We pre-ordered "Deathly Hallows" through the Big River.com site to get it delivered on the day. But it's also the day we leave for vacation. Our flight's at 2 p.m., which means we have to leave for the airport no later than 11:30 a.m. If the FedEx guy doesn't show up by then, I'm going to be spending a week yelling "LALALA!!!" with my fingers in my ears....

Bob Thompson: Good luck, and go FedEX!

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Silver Spring, Md.: I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that HP's popularity is due to a massive marketing campaign. Virtually all of the buzz is generated by the fans, not the publisher. I've never seen a television ad for a Potter book. The movies don't get more hype than any other franchise - less, it seems, than "Spider-Man" or "Pirates of the Carribean."

Bob Thompson: I agree with you, Silver Spring, that it wasn't marketing that caused the popularity. But Harry's publishers have certainly worked hard to increase that popularity, and I think there's a pretty strong backlash out there against the timed release strategy.

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Potter done, now what?: Okay, we love HP. We read "Narnia" and "His Dark Materials" series. Anybody have any more recs for a family who likes to read?

Bob Thompson: Good question. I'll just put up answers to this as they come in. Librarians and booksellers, of course, can also help you with this.

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Washington, D.C.: I've enjoyed having the Potter books as a way to recommend other books, like Susan Cooper's "Dark is Rising" series. Sadly, unlike HP, "Narnia", "Lord of the Rings," and Phillip Pullman, the movie of "Dark is Rising" is similar to the book only in the title and the names of a few characters, which makes me sad for the lost opportunity.

Bob Thompson: Thanks Washington. But is that Dark is Rising movie actually out? I've only seen a trailer.

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Arlington, Va.: For the poster looking for audiobooks a la Harry Potter, Michael Dirda's weekly book chat (usually on Wednesdays, but not this week) is a perfect place to ask that question. In fact, I'm fairly certain he's answered that very question before. You might search the Dirda archives or Google Dirda and Harry Potter. Of course, the poster can always ask Mr. Dirda himself during his discussion. He's gracious about answering repeat questions.

washingtonpost.com: Is that you Michael?

Bob Thompson: Good idea. Michael is enormously knowlegable about children's books (and all others, for that matter)

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Arlington. Va.: What's a timed release strategy?

Bob Thompson: Sorry: It's the publisher's requirement that booksellers can only sell the books after a designated time. In this case, they're being released July 21, hence all the stores staying open till midnight and throwing parties.

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Baltimore: I've read that despite the record-breaking presales and projected sales, retailers like Borders and Amazon.com will barely break even due to the severe discounts they're offering. That just strikes me as terrible business and a waste of what should be the most profitable book in the foreseeable future.

Bob Thompson: Actually, they'll probably lose money, as I believe Jeff Bezos of Amazon has acknowledged. (Borders won't comment.)Independent bookstores have been angry about this ever since the discounting started, because they can't compete on price and have to rely on customer loyalty.

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Now what?: : How about Madeline L'Engle? Start with "A Wrinkle in Time." Then "Wind in the Door." I was never hugely into fantasy, but I read all her books when I was in middle school. I highly recommend them.

Bob Thompson: Good suggestion, thanks.

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Washington, D.C.: My husband and I enjoyed both the written and taped versions of the Bartimaeus Trilogy by Jonothan Stroud. The story is about an English wizard, but the similarities to HP end there.

Bob Thompson: And one more.

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grownuppotterfan: What is your opinion on the Baltimore Sun and the NY Times printing of reviews prior to the release of the book?

They are a bit too close to spoilerish for "purists" in my opinion.

Bob Thompson: I think those reviews are prime examples of just how insane this whole thing has gotten.

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Dupont Circle, D.C.: It would be interesting to look at the HP phenomenon a la Malcolm Gladwell's "The Tipping Point" -- what made this book so wildly popular? There are so many good books and authors out there, but this one just, as Mr. Gladwell says, tipped.

Bob Thompson: That's the $1 billion question, Dupont Circle. There are many theories, none proven. You could ask the same question about The Da Vinci Code.

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Family who likes to read: Some suggestions:

"Watership Down"

Jules Verne's stuff

Dickens' shorter works

Sherlock Holmes

"juvenile" sci-fi from Heinlein, like "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel"

Bob Thompson: Keep 'em coming

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The Dark is Rising: No, the movie isn't out -- but the trailer has been running before the HP movie, and there are lots of cast interviews floating around. But the books should appeal to HP fans, as should Diane Duane's "Young Wizards" series, and the Lloyd Alexander books.

Bob Thompson: Thanks for the clarification

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Stonewylde books: They are only available in the UK, not in the US (yet -- the author has supposedly signed a deal to publish here). They are set in an alternative magical community and are bound to kick up more censorship than the HP books, since the publisher has marketed them as pagan.

Bob Thompson: Thanks

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Falls Church, Va.: I try to think of why HP has become so popular - other than the immense skill of Rowling, of course. Is it the fact that it is a series? Maybe -- many of my favorites as a child and young adult were series of books -- "Black Stallion," "Babysitters Club," etc., and even pseudo-series like Jennifer Weiner books of recent years. Or is it due to cross marketing? The advent of fan sites like mugglenet.com, as an example?

Bob Thompson: Again, if we knew the answer, we'd be rich. I'm sure their being a series is a factor -- but unlike most series books, they have a single plot line that is intricate and interconnected. Rowling's American editor, Arthur Levine, makes the point that it was a huge advantage for her to have spent years working this out before the first book was published.

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Annapolis, Md.: I think the backlash is more than a little silly. Kids won't read enormous books with pretty rich vocabularies just because of hype. The books are good; if you could start a frenzy through marketing alone, publishers would do it every week.

And if reading is declining -- which I question, given the enormous growth in dollars spent on books -- then it's hardly Harry's fault. Parents and teachers do more to nurture reading habits than any one book or series of books. If your Harry-loving kid reads nothing else in her life, it's your fault and not Harry's.

Bob Thompson: Couldn't agree more about the influence of parents and teachers, Annapolis. Parents who read themselves tend to have kids who read, and reading aloud to children -- a lot -- is the best way to start turning them into readers.

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Silver Spring, Md.: Roald Dahl - not only is he one of JKR's most recent literary ancestors, most people don't know he wrote many racy and brilliant short stories for adults as well as his children's books.

Bob Thompson: Thanks, Silver Spring.

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Reading Family: "Ender's Game/Ender's Shadow" by Orson Scott Card

"Firebrand" - Marion Zimmer Bradley

"Eragon" - books better than the movie

"Princess Diaries" - Meg Cabot

"Secret Garden"/"Little Princess"

Bob Thompson: Thanks

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Fairfax, Va.: I have never read any of the Harry Potter books (or seen the movies), nor do I have any desire to despite being a voracious reader and a particular fan of the fantasy/science fiction genres... and I have finally determined why. While the hype and buzz generated by the HR phenom has drawn such a huge amount of interest from people of all ages, it has completely put me off the series. I have no logical explanation why, but all the build-up, discussion, and enthusiastic gushing by rabid fans has killed whatever desire I might have harbored to read the series.

Bob Thompson: I don't think you're alone in this, Fairfax (and I've had it happen to me with other overhyped phenomena). All I can say is I think the books really are good -- so maybe in five years or so you can quietly pick them up and enjoy them.

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Falls Church, Va.: I was going to get my new HP book from Borders for $20, but I decided to support A Likely Story in Old Towne and spend $35 on the book -- plus I'll be there for the street-wide celebration at midnight.

Bob Thompson: Independent booksellers everywhere thank you! Hope you have a good time.

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Discounts and Amazon: They probably figure to use it as a loss leader. I bought another book and a movie when I ordered my copy of HP from Amazon.

Bob Thompson: That's part of it. Part of it is the continuing quest for market share. I've also heard it said that the brick and mortar chains need to keep their numbers up or they'll be punished by Wall Street, but I should stress that I'm not a financial reporter and don't know if that's true.

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Chantilly, Va.: It saddens me that some groups have focused on "witchcraft" to claim that the Harry Potter books aren't good for their children to read. "Wizards" and "witches" aren't really the focus of the books -- that's just window dressing. What the books ARE about are very simple: power, the use and misuse thereof; consequences; importance of not taking the easy way out; importance of standing for what's right, no matter how unpopular it is. Tell me -- what group could possibly argue with those things? But they focus on "wizards," etc. and never look beyond that. Sad.

Bob Thompson: Couldn't agree more, Chantilly.

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Baltimore: We followed up Harry Potter with the Misty of Chincoteague books. It doesn't have fantastic elements, just another time and place with kids who do extraordinary things in a different culture that still has some connections to our own.

It made going to Ocean City a wonderful experience.

Bob Thompson: Interesting and original -- most ideas for Harry followups tend (naturally enough) to be other fantasy titles. But there are great books out there in all genres.

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Family suggestions: I loved the Great Brain series by John D. Fitzgerald when I was a kid. It is about a family of kids living in Utah in the 19th century in a part-Mormon, part-nonMormon town.

Bob Thompson: Don't know those books -- thanks!

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Lisbon, Portugal: Unfortunately, other authours around the world (for instance, from a small country like Portugal) do not have the same marketing around their books, and are not translated in more than 60 languages, and hence their sales numbers do not reach high levels. But I think Harry Potter may have been succeeded in boosting young readers around the world, buy taking them inside a reading that demands concentration, understanding and love for literature. But don't you think that marketing resources should be available for everyone?

Bob Thompson: It might be nice, but will never happen -- even within a single country, much less around the world. But one good thing that seems to be happening is that at least some publishers are more aware of the excellent books published in other countries. Earlier I mentioned Cornelia Funke, who writes in German, as an example.

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Atlanta, Ga.: Hello there. As an adult (30) who has loved these books, I was wondering if there were other authors/series who initially targeted the kids market and were a success with adults (maybe not to this scale, clearly). Or even if there are any that you would recommend? It's refreshing to get away from the adult genres every once and a while (have you seen the number of "chick lit" books out there?) and still have a satisfying and engaging read....Thanks!

Bob Thompson: Hi Athens, and sorry to be so late getting to your question. Short answer: Philip Pullman. His trilogy (which begins with "The Golden Compass") is more sophisticated than the vast majority of "adult" literature.

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Annandale, Va.: Try Neil Gaiman - he writes for kids and adults. His book "Stardust" is being made into a movie.

Bob Thompson: Thanks -- I haven't read Gaiman but have heard good things.

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Falls Church, Va.: Why is it insane to not want to be spoiled before you read a book you've been looking to for months or years?

Bob Thompson: Oops -- did I say it was? If so, that was a mistake! I think it's totally sane to want to experience the book without spoilers, hype and other noise getting in the way of your one on one connection with what J.K. Rowling wrote. If I were you, I'd turn off the TV, stay off the internet and -- dare I say it -- save the newspapers to read after you're done!
On that note, It's time for me to sign off. Thanks for joining me, and many thanks for all the book suggestions.

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