Annie Duke
Professional Poker Player
Wednesday, November 14, 2007; 2:30 PM

Annie Duke, one of the top poker players in the world, was online Wednesday, Nov. 14, at 2:30 p.m. ET to discuss her testimony in behalf of the Poker Players Alliance, to be delivered Wednesday before the House Judiciary Committee, examining U.S. policies relating to Internet gaming.

A transcript follows.

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Annie Duke: Hi everyone. I just finished testifying at the House Judiciary Committee hearing on online gaming. It was an exhilarating experience and I was honored to be able to represent the millions of poker players who enjoy playing poker on the Internet. I feel that we made some excellent points but there is still lots of work to do. I would encourage any of you who are passionate about this issue to join the Poker Players Alliance (www.pokerplayersalliance.org) if you have not already done so. Now I would love to answer your questions.

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Arlington, Va. : Gaming? GAMING? Where I come from, playing for money -- on the Internet or elsewhere -- is called GAMBLING. And that's okay by me, but why do you insist on calling it "gaming"? How can you have an honest debate when you don't use honest language?

Annie Duke: Poker is not gambling no more than options trading is. Gambling is an activity where you will mathematical lose in the long run but you play to try to get lucky and overcome the odds in the short run. Poker is a game of skill in which you play against other players and you can play with an edge. So it is gaming not gambling. I am using honest language.

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Bethlehem, Pa.: I believe that instead of outlawing online poker that government should go in the exact opposite direction and make it legal and run the sites themselves or at least tax it so that they can take a cut. What do you think?

Annie Duke: I agree with you in principle. Rep. Barney Frank has authored a bill, H.R. 2046 which would do exactly that.

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Milestown, Mont.: Posting early. Ms. Duke, is it true that you got your start in Billings, Mont?

If so, where did you play? How in the heck did you get your start there?

Annie Duke: I did get my start in Montana. I started playing at the Crystal Lounge in downtown Billings. I lived in Montana after I left grad school and, needing money, my brother pointed out there were legal poker rooms in Montana and suggested I try playing to pay the rent. Obviously, that worked out for me!

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Kensington, Md.: Hi Annie,

What is the on-line gaming industry doing to ensure that the games are fair and that neither the gaming sponsors or other players within the system are cheating?

For example, in Vegas it is a pretty fair guess that all the table games are legit because fixing real dice or a real shoe in blackjack is pretty difficult to do and it leaves a trail for the gaming commission to follow.

An on-line gaming provider with servers located outside of the U.S. has no authority to answer to if they decide to run a crooked game.

Annie Duke: In terms of online poker, there is complete transparency, transparency you cannot get in a brick and mortar casino. Millions of hand histories are accessible to all players and, believe me, the players do statistical analysis on those hand histories to ensure a fair deal. Not only that but the reputable sites also do those same analyses to ensure their deal is fair. Under a regulated system, the government could make sure there was an auditing system in place which would further protect people playing online.

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Washington, D.C.: Annie: I am a recreational player and since I live near Washington, D.C., there are no legal card rooms within a 4-hour drive, hence I have to play most of my poker on-line. Other than joining the PPA (which I did in the first week of their existence) what can a normal person do to try and get the UIGEA overturned, a carve-out for poker or Internet regulation for poker? Thank you for coming to D.C. and for your efforts in this matter.

Annie Duke: Thanks for your question. The best thing you can do, besides joining the PPA, is to write your representatives, email them, call them and visit them in person. The PPA has tools on their web site to facilitate your communicating with your representative. Take advantage of the resources offered there.

Through my lobbying efforts in this matter I have discovered that you really do have a voice in this government of ours. Speak out to your representative. They represent you! Let them know you care and it will make a difference.

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Washington, D.C.: Do you think gambling is an addiction?

If so why would you want to make it easier for people to gamble away their life savings?

Annie Duke: Gambling is not an addiction no more than drinking alcohol is an addiction or shopping is an addiction or chocolate is an addiction. To be sure, some people are addicted to these activities. In the case of alcohol is is about 7 to 9% of the people who choose to drink. In the case of gambling it is about .4 to .7% of the people who gamble. Alcohol addiction is ten times the magnitude of prevalence as gambling addiction.

I feel for problem gamblers and wish for them to get help. But the effective way to do that is not to ban all gambling just because less than 1% of the population who gamble are addicted or have a problem with it. If we banned anything that people could be addicted to we would have to ban everything, including chocolate, sex, shopping and water among other things.

Regulation which give us much better tools to identify and help problem gamblers than prohibition.

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Arlington, Va.: Hi Annie,

I am a fan of yours and an avid poker player. With much fanfare sometime ago, online poker in the U.S. was ruled illegal and supposedly shut down. Can you explain then, to casual observers like me, why many Americans are still able to play and win money at poker web sites? I haven't been able to get a definitive answer out of anyone about this.

Thanks.

Annie Duke: Many Americans can still play because playing poker online is not illegal except in the 12 states where there is some kind of law on the books that could be interpreted to apply to online gaming. The UIGEA does not change that. It was, in fact, clearly reiterated by the representative of the DOJ today that playing poker in a state where that is a legal activity is still legal even under the UIGEA.

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Baltimore, Md.: Who's better, you or Howard?

Annie Duke: Howard :-) But tell him I said that!

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Washington, D.C.: I've read your testimony and those of other witnesses before the Judiciary Committee. What questions did they have for you and what is your impression of their willingness to pursue revocation of the UIGEA?

Annie Duke: The transcript of the hearing will be available on the Judiciary Committee website in a few days. My opinion, though, is that there is a definite willingness in this Congress to readdress Internet gambling laws.

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Alexandria, Va.: Unless regulation would help protect online gamblers from cheating and swindling, shouldn't they just stay out of it. Gambling is a choice. Regulation brings taxation which simply is unnecessary. Seems that the U.S. government sees a golden goose and they want some of the eggs for free.

Annie Duke: I believe that when businesses are regulated that the goods and services they offer are safer and our citizens are better protected. I think the alcohol industry is a good example of that, as well as all of our food industries. I like knowing that the meat I eat is inspected and I would also like to know when I choose to play online that the site has been licensed to operate in this country.

As for taxation, I generally believe that corporations operating in our country should be subject to taxation, whether they operate in the virtual world or the real world.

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Sausalito, Calif.: Ms. Duke,

Thanks for the chat.

What is the most common mistake that amateur Hold 'Em players make?

Annie Duke: Amateur players play far to many hands.

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Washington, D.C.: Do you think online gambling is more addictive than playing at the casino?

Annie Duke: No I don't but I have not done a study on this myself. What I do know is that the UK Gambling Prevalence Study showed that the rate of problem gambling in that country did not change from 1999 to 2007 (it remained at less than 1% of the gambling population). That is exactly the time period when Internet gaming became pervasive there. Also, the total number of gamblers in that country did not increase as well during that time period.

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Arlington, Va.: Annie, have you seen much progress by the PPA in preventing my online play from being shut down?

Annie Duke: If not for the Poker Players Alliance I would not have been testifying in front of Congress today. Nor would the bills under consideration have been introduced (Wexler and Frank's Bills). Further, the PPA has been actively involved in muting the proposed regulations so that they do not impact poker players.

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Falls Church, Va.: Good afternoon Annie,

One quick question, is Phil Hellmuth like that in real time or is it just for the TV cameras

Thanks and enjoy watching you play.

Annie Duke: He is like that pretty much all the time. But he is a good guy. I promise. I just chatted with him on the phone last night. He is a friend...just a badly misbehaving one! :-)

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Arlington, Va.: Annie, thanks for all the hard work on behalf of the Internet poker community.

My question concerns the "big game" that is frequently referenced during poker telecasts. Because it's a high stakes cash game, are there some top poker pros, be it from extended bad luck or bad play, who end up losing more money than they earn in a given year? (i.e., the hit they take in the big game is so big, it erases any other earnings for the year, be it from poker, endorsements, business deals, etc.)

Thanks!

Annie Duke: Yes, of course there are top pros who have bad years. Particularly in the big game some pros are playing outside of their bankrolls which can cause them to not be able to take some of the shorter term swings. Part of the skill of poker is to always play within your bankroll.

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Mt. Brook, Ala.: What sort of protection would you recommend to prevent minors from gaming online? I enjoy a hand of 5-Card Stud a great deal, but I ma concerned about young people who do not know the rules learning expensive lessons from disreputable adults.

Annie Duke: There are very powerful software programs available for majority verification. Aristotle is widely used in the UK, for example and Mr. Colopy from that company testified today at the committee hearing. The fact is that the UIGEA does nothing to protect minors from playing online. In fact, it doesn't address the issue at all. Under Mr. Frank's legislation companies would be regulated and compelled to use the most advanced available technologies for age verification. regulation keeps minors offline, not prohibition.

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Arlington, Va.: What are your favorite poker books for someone looking for a more advanced read?

Annie Duke: Try Harrington on Hold'em or Bill Chen's book.

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Baltimore, Md.: Has the PPA estimated/projected how much tax revenue the federal government could earn if it were to legalize Internet gambling in the U.S., even if it were just limited to poker? This would seem to be a logical incentive for the government to pursue domestic regulation of the industry.

Annie Duke: They have estimated the revenue for only Internet poker. For Internet poker it is estimated that the government is missing out on around 3 billion in tax revenue. Imagine how much they are missing out on from all forms of Internet gambling!

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Harrisburg, Pa.: What are the economic impacts of gaming? What percent of poker players lose money over the long run? Maybe you don't have the figures, but about how large are these losses, and what percent of their incomes are they losing? In sum, can gamers afford their losses, and what proportion of players do lose?

Annie Duke: The average online player wagers $10 a week. I would hope that is an extremely small percentage of their income and if they cannot afford to lose that they have much greater problems to worry about than Internet gaming.

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Washington, D.C.: Annie,

Would you rather spend your day as a full time lobbyist or playing $100/$200 No Limit?

Annie Duke: I think a lobbyist right now :-)

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Vienna, VA.: Annie --

There is a real juicy 1/3 game in suburban Maryland tonight -- want to come donate?

Annie Duke: You mean get donated to? :-)

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Washington, D.C.: Annie,

In your prepared testimony you reference testimony by the Interactive Skill Games Association. What did they say about games other than poker and where can I find a copy of the testimony?

Annie Duke: The testimony will available at the end of this week. Contact the Poker Players Alliance and they can email it to you.

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Arlington, Va.: Aside from having financial interests in sites like Full Tilt Poker and PokerStars, how much time do famous/top professionals spend actually playing online poker? I would assume a vast majority of the poker playing is still done at an actual table and not in front of a screen. Is that inaccurate?

Keep up the good work!

Annie Duke: I actually don't know of any professional who own a piece of any offshore gambling site, poker or otherwise. As for playing, lots of top pros spend a tremendous amount of time playing online. I would say that there are many name pros who actually spend the majority of their poker playing time online.

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Bow, N.H.: Is it true you and your family grew up in Concord, N.H.? I thought I remember that your dad used to write for the Concord Monitor?

Annie Duke: That is true.

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Washington, D.C.: I'm a PPA member and applaud your work, but as someone in the know, can you briefly explain how online poker sites regulate potential problem areas, like underage players or collusion at a table among multiple players? Thanks.

Annie Duke: Reputable online site use advanced age verification software to block minors from using their sites for real money. As for collusion, the online world is in many ways a safer place to play. Sited have software that detects when players are playing at the same table too often and sends the hand histories of those players for automatic examination. If you suspect collusion you can write into the site and have the hand histories examined or, even , examine them yourself.

That kind of transparency is not available in a brick and mortar casino. If you suspect collusion there you can not have someone look at all those hands the players you suspect have played at the table (with their hole cards included). I am always baffled that people are under the misconception that there is more protection in a brick and mortar. There is more online because if they do discover cheating they can actually refund exactly all the money you lost in the situation.

that being said, cases of cheating in either the online world or the brick and mortar world are quite rare.

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Arlington, Va. -- Comment on the cheating scandal: Can you offer any comment on the recent cheating scandal covered extensively on 2+2? While most people saw this as a negative I see it as one of the benefits of online poker -- that being that there is an extensive online community devoted to ensuring that things like this are uncovered.

Annie Duke: That incident proves that online poker is safe. The site self regulated in that case and the players, because of the transparency offered online, discovered the issue through statistical analyses. the site, after the problem was discovered, then refunded all the money of the players that were affected, a result that could never practically happen in the brick and mortar world.

IN that case the site self regulated but under the current situation we have to rely on the sites to do that. Under a regulated environment, sites would be compelled to follow regulations. So we would all be safer and more secure.

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Arlington, Va.: With which players do you have the most fun sitting at a table? Anyone out there who you think "has your number," so to speak? (assuming you'd want to admit that)

Annie Duke: All the players who are my friends are who I have the most fun at the table with. People like Erik Seidel or my brother. That being said, it is a double edged sword cause I don't really want them at my table from an equity perspective!

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Washington, D.C.: How can Internet gambling be illegal yet the networks allow Internet gaming sites to advertise on their stations?

Annie Duke: The networks only allow sites with a .net extension to advertise. Those sites are free play only sites and accept no wagers.

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West Hartford, Conn.: Annie,

Do you feel that the hearings today will directly lead to regulation or are we still months, if not years, away from our own government protecting its citizens from this unregulated industry?

Annie Duke: We are for sure at least months away from that if not more...even if the Barney frank bill were passed tomorrow it would take a while to set up a regulated system.

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Arlington, Va.: Annie,

HUGE fan, I loved how you took out Hellmuth in the 2005 Tournament of Champions, I have it permanently DVR'd!

I love playing Texas Hold'em but I'm thinking of mixing things up a little bit at my home games. What game would you suggest, Omaha, Stud, maybe even some HORSE?

Annie Duke: HORSE is an awesome game as it creates good POKER players instead of just good no limit hold'em players. I would strongly encourage anyone who truly wants to be a student of the game to because adept at HORSE. It will improve your understanding of poker and make you a much better player.

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Salt Lake City, Utah: Hi Annie,

I'm a big fan of you and your brother. My question: with the explosion of "amateurs"playing in the big tournaments in the last few years, how much more difficult is it for the professionals win or even break even? I would think that "cattle calls" like at the last several World Series of Poker would play havoc with your concentration, strategies, etc.

Annie Duke: It is easier for them to win money, not harder, with the explosion of amateurs because the prize money is so much bigger. As an example, in 2000 I came in 10th in the WSOP and got $50K for my trouble. In 2006 I came in 88th and the WSOP main event and got $54K for my troubles. To be sure, variance is higher but earn is higher as well. I certainly welcome wholeheartedly all the new players. I love that interest in poker has exploded.

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Washington, D.C.: How come so few poker rooms offer their services for Mac users?

Annie Duke: I think, and I am not positive, because Mac users only comprise something like 4% of the computer users out there and to offer in Mac requires all new code so I imagine some of the sites don't consider it cost effective to offer a Mac friendly version, especially since they know that virtual PC exists.

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Fairfax, Va.: So where does it all go from here, from today's hearings? Is there support? Hot hot an issue is online gaming with the legislators on Capitol Hill?

Annie Duke: this was an important step in the process of getting even more congressional support for online poker. I think the hearing went very well and it would be a great follow-up for people who care to contact their members of congress and encourage them to support license and regulation of Internet poker.

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Dunkirk, Md.: Annie,

As a former participant of a EPT event in Dublin, I got to face up with top players such as Andrew Black and Greg Raymer. At what point in your career did you know you had what it took to compete?

Also, don't you hate J-10 suited, it gets me into more trouble than it's worth!

Annie Duke: J-T suited is, in my opinion, the most overrated hand in poker. As for when I knew, I am still not sure I know but I go by my results. I think the minutes you think you are awesome at this game you are in trouble as it is a game which you should always be striving to be getting better at.

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Washington, D.C.: Is there an easy way to conceal your tells? I feel like my opponents can read me like a book. For example, the other day I was playing a tourney and got dealt pocket rockets -- I immediately started laughing uncontrollably and everyone folded. What can I do?

Annie Duke: Try picking a spot in the middle of the table and staring at it with your mouth open while just concentrating on your breathing. Just think breath in and breath out and think about nothing else.

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Annie Duke: Thanks everyone for joining this chat. Very stimulating questions! I hope you all will go explore the Poker Players Alliance web site to see what resources they offer in helping effect change in Washington. We all need to be involved to protect our right to play this wonderful game of skill. Thanks everyone!

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