Roast Beef and Mock Meats

Today's Live Discussions
Monday's Sessions
Post Politics: Perry Bacon Jr., 11
Media: Howard Kurtz, 12
Traffic-Transit: Dr. Gridlock, 12
Travel: Flight Crew, 2
All-Star Game: Dave Sheinin, 2
Sotomayor: Hearings Begin, 2

Weekly Schedule
Recent Live Q&As

Discussion Policy
Comments that include profanity or personal attacks or other inappropriate comments or material will be removed from the site. Additionally, entries that are unsigned or contain "signatures" by someone other than the actual author will be removed. Finally, we will take steps to block users who violate any of our posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies or any other policies governing this site. Please review the full rules governing commentaries and discussions. You are fully responsible for the content that you post.
The Food Section
of the Washington Post
Wednesday, January 9, 2008; 1:00 PM

A chat with the Food section staff is a chance for you to ask questions, offer suggestions and share information with other cooks and food lovers. It is a forum for discussion of food trends, ingredients, menus, gadgets and anything else food-related.

Each chat, we will focus on topics from the day's Food section. You can also read the transcripts of past chats. Do you have a question about a particular recipe or a food-related anecdote to share? The Food section staff goes Free Range on Food every Wednesday at 1 p.m. ET. Read about the staff of the Food section.

____________________

Joe: Welcome to today's chat. We hope the section today was like an effective amuse bouche -- that it got your appetite going for some serious eating to come, possibly produced in your own kitchen. We have to say that Steve Katz has given us our new favorite way of dealing with roast beef. Did you find entertainment in Andrea Sachs's tale of mock meats? Did Jason Wilson convince you that your glassware needs a makeover?

For our favorite posts, we have giveaway books. Now, we're not about to let any of our meat books go, cause we like them all too much, but we do have a great one for you vegetarians or wannabes out there: Deborah Madison's "Vegetarian Cooking For Everyone" (the 10th anniversary edition, with a new introduction by the author). We also have for another smart, funny chatter the source of today's Dinner in Minutes recipe: "The New Family Cookbook for People With Diabetes."

What's on your mind, in your pantry, in your oven? In anticipation of your questions, we stand at the ready. OK, that's not exactly right: We SIT at the ready, fingers poised above keyboards.

Joe: I almost forgot! We're lucky to have some guest chatters today -- Steve Katz, author of the roast story; and Andrea Sachs from our travel section, who penned the fake meat tale. Welcome, both!

_______________________

Vienna, Va.: hey rangers! loved your recipes this week on roast beef! thanks for the tips for economical choices! question though, you mentioned to pan sear it first then transfer to the roasting pan.. is it possible to pan sear it in my le creuset cast iron (enamel coated) pan (my bday gift! cant wait to use!) then just use the same pot to transfer into the oven to be slow cooked with the veggies? and any more tips on what to cook in my new gift thanks to my husband (who wants to take advantage of all the cooking ill be doing in it!) thanks again! and happy new year!

Steve Katz: Hi and thanks for writing.

The Le Creuset is a perfect choice of a pan for searing -- and while you can certain use the same pan for a one-pan sear and roast, simply beaware that the pan you sear in will transfer a lot of heat to the bottom of the roast or veggies if you use the roast vegetables to support the roast.

My suggestion is after you sear the meat, let the pan cool down a bit, then place the root vegetables in the pan, then the roast, then put it all in the oven.

_______________________

Silver Spring, Md.: Great timing! I have some pork and spinach in the fridge, so I will be making the Pacific Rim Pork tonight for dinner. Just one question: When I view the recipe online, the nutritional information indicates that it has 410 calories and 27 grams of fat per serving. Looking at the recipe, I am not sure where all that fat is coming from. The pork tenderloin is the only possibility. Was the nutritional information calculated using a fattier cut of pork?

Bonnie: Our nutritional datbase didn't have a specific ground pork tenderloin option, and we also ran the numbers using cooked ground pork, because you wipe the fat out of the skillet. (Sometimes, we get as close as we can...) I bet if you used real ground pork tenderloin, the fat content would be lower.

_______________________

Centreville, Va.: Today's quick dinner recipe looks great, but we don't eat pork. Would ground turkey taste as good? Or do you think ground chicken would be better?

Bonnie: You could try ground chicken, especially ground dark meat.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: I'd like to try the chestnut-maple cheesecake (Dec 19th issue) but don't care for maple. Can you suggest other toppings please?

Also, how long will recipes be stored online? Thanks very much.

Joe: I conferred with Frances Sellers, our Health editor (and former roommate of Nigella Lawson!), about her recipe, and here are some thoughts. You could certainly leave out the topping altogether, or instead of the 1/4 cup of maple syrup you could try rum (say, 2-3 TB combined with 1-2 TB of water). Depending on the sweetness of your chestnut puree, you may want to add some sugar to taste. Or, and this is coming from me instead of Frances, if you don't want the alcohol you could use honey and water with the chestnut puree and butter.

Our Recipe Finder is your permanent repository of recipes! We've put a few years' worth of Post-tested recipes in there, and are adding new recipes every week as they appear in the paper -- but also reaching back all the time to continue to add from the archives. But there's no expiration date on any of our recipes, so you can come back to the Recipe Finder (www.washingtonpost.com/recipes) anytime...

Joe: BTW, for other interested bakers, that cheesecake is here.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: A friend of mine recently mentioned a recipe for an "Applesauce Fruitcake" that she grew up with, that was clipped out of the Post in maybe the mid-80s. Can you help me find the recipe?

Joe: Absolutely -- this must be it, right? This ran in 1982, and was the work of a central Virginia homemaker, Mattie Ford...

Mattie Ford's Fruitcake
Makes a 10-inch cake

1 cup butter or margarine
2 cups brown sugar
2 cups hot applesauce
3 eggs
4 cups sifted flour
2 teaspoons baking soda
1/2 teaspoon salt
2 teaspoons cinnamon
1 teaspoon allspice
1 teaspoon cloves
2 cups raisins
2 cups chopped mixed nuts, unsalted
1 cup chopped dates
1 cup fruit preserves
1 cup drained crushed pineapple

Melt butter and beat in sugar. Add hot applesauce, then eggs, and beat well. Stir flour, soda, salt and spices together with raisins, nuts and dates. Make sure fruits are separated. Stir flour mixture into butter mixture, then add preserves and pineapple.

At this point Mattie Ford beats the mixture, which is very thick, with a metal spoon on and off for about 20 minutes. A heavy-duty electric mixer can also be used, and in that case beating time will be about 5 minutes.

Pour mixture into buttered and floured 10-inch bundt or tube pan and bake at 350 degrees for 1 hour and 15 minutes. Let cool slightly in pan. Remove from pan and while warm sprinkle with 1/2 cup rum, if desired.

When completely cool, wrap the cake tightly in heavy-duty aluminum foil and then enclose in metal cake box or wrap in a towel. The cake can be unwrapped and sprinkled with 1/2 cup of rum every week if desired. For storage longer than 1 month, keep in refrigerator.

_______________________

Washington, D.C. -- please help!: I found an amazing soup recipe that I'm dying to make. However, it requires lemongrass and yellow curry paste. I make red curry regularly and have no trouble finding the paste, but I can't find yellow (or fresh lemongrass)! I don't have a car, so most of the specialty Asian grocery stores in Fairfax are out... anywhere in NW DC?

Jane Black: They sell fresh lemongrass in the packaged herb section of Whole Foods. I think I've also seen the lemongrass at Safeway on 17th Street. As for the curry paste, you might need to hit an ethnic grocer for that. Or you could try to a Massaman curry paste, which is also at Whole Foods and other supermarkets. It's not quite the same as yellow but would be a decent substitute. Hope that helps.

_______________________

Seattle, Wash.: I was working too many hours throughout December and totally missed the cookbook reviews. Could you please provide a link so I know what to lust after this year? Thank you!

Joe: Sure! It's right here.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: Hello Rangers and Fellow Chatters,

My birthday is coming up and I have my eye on a stand mixer. Cooks Illustrated swears by the $400 KitchenAid Pro for a powerful engine for ploughing through bread dough and it's wide bowl for scraping out the dough. I would love opinions if this is a necessary cost or would a cheaper stand mixer cut it? What do others have or wish they had??

Leigh: I am an avid baker and have the 5-quart Kitchen Aid mixer. One feature I particularly like about this model is that the bowl raises via a lever rather than a screw in bowl. This makes for more mobility. It is the one tool in my kitchen I would not give up. They are pricey, but you can look for a refurbished one on-line or through an outlet store. They are great machines and will last a life time.

Joe: Ditto.

Bonnie: Around the holidays, I saw specials on Kitchen Aid mixers for $299. I've used mine literally every week since I got it more than 10 years ago. Think of the cost over the long haul. And go forth!

_______________________

Arlington, Va.: Hi, Food staff! I found a delicious-sounding recipe for a pumpkin roll cake with toffee cream filling on epicurious. However, the filling recipe calls for blooming unflavored gelatin in dark rum, and then eventually folding that into whipped cream. Since I don't care for the taste of rum (or rum-flavored extract), is there something else I could use in its place? Thanks for the chats, to which I've become addicted!

Bonnie: Assuming you wouldn't like to substitute one taste of alcohol for another, try apple or pear cider. It'll go well with the pumpkin, I bet.

_______________________

Outside the Beltway: If vegetarians give up eating meat for ethical or other reasons, why are they so interested in eating a meat-esque substitute? Why not just have soy for soy's sake?

Andrea Sachs: Hi OTB. Vegetarians turn to imitation meats for multiple reasons. Maybe they are just plain-old tired of tofu cubes in their woks and soy milk in their lattes. Or perhaps they miss the idea of meat, or want to jazz up their recipes, since these products do have a different flavor than regular soy. In addition, sometimes at picnics and company barbecues they just want to fit in. Tucked in a hot dog roll and covered in condiments, the tofu pup can fool even the most eagle-eyed meat eater.

_______________________

Lothian, Md.: Wow! Definitely two distinctly different food subjects on your cover. I have a question on your slow-roasting -- if I sear a roast in a 12-inch All-Clad on the stovetop, can I roast in the same pan or do I need a rack? Also, for pragmatic vegetarians, you can't beat Trader Joe's Meatless Meatballs. If you have homemade spaghetti sauce or the kind in a jar, you can have spaghetti and meatballs on the table in about 20 minutes (including boiling the water for pasta). They also make the greatest meatball and cheese subs (heat meatballs in sauce, place on toasted roll, add mozzarella and place under broiler for a few seconds).

Steve Katz: Hi and thanks for writing.

Yes, you can sear and pan roast essentially using the same pan, with one caveat. Recognizing that the heat in the pan resulting from searing will transfer higher temperature heat if you simply went from one stage to the next, here's my recommendation:

1. Sear roast and then remove to a plate
2. Allow pan to cool down, then place root vegetables in pan, and then place roast on top.
3. Place pan in the oven.

Enjoy!

_______________________

Fort Washington, Md.: Is it possible to offer a simple, easy, and fast dish with a recommended wine? I often try receipes but am lost at what wine to serve with it.

Bonnie: Sure, we'll try to be better about that in the new year, Dinner in Minutes-wise. Next week's salmon dish has a recommendation for a good beer pairing. Does that count?

_______________________

Arlington, Va. S: As a vegetarian I've never really been a fan of the fake meats, but do you really think the best way to taste test them was to microwave them? You surely wouldn't have done this to compare steaks, burgers, rice, most vegetables, etc.

Bonnie: This was recommended by Terry Huin of Terry's Healthy Food. All the alt meat we tried did not need cooking of any other kind. That said, the group also taste-tested the "Chicken" Pot Pie in a Pan, which was done on the stovetop. (And they liked it!)

_______________________

Adams Morgan, D.C.: I recently returned from a trip to Hawaii and fell in love with fresh passion fruit. Do you know where in the city I can find this delectable and tangy fruit? I've looked everywhere with no luck!

Bonnie: Whole Foods on P Street can order it and have it within a few days. The problem is that the fruit tends to go bad fairly quickly and so they don't regularly keep it in stock. Ask for Kibrab in the produce department. Actually, he's calling me back tomorrow to make sure they'll have it. So email me at food@washpost.com, Adams Morgan, and we'll all be informed.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: Hello foodies! It what was my most exciting moment of last weekend, I purchased a mini food processor (3 cups). Now that it's at home, I'm not exactly sure what to do with it. I tried to dice onions, but it made a paste super fast--did I just use it too agressively, or is that a character trait of a food processor? It seems to me most of the time that it's just quicker to chop the items, rather than pull out the food processor, clean it afterwards, etc. Any great suggestions? Thanks so much!

Joe: Have you learned the beauty of the pulse? I rarely ever let a food processor just run unless it's mush that I'm after. I just pulse, pulse, pulse. Even doing it one pulse right after the other is a much gentler approach than ANY time spent just ON. You're right that many things are more efficient/effective by hand, but in a recent Tool Test installment, Bonnie and I did absolutely love what the mini-prep did for garlic that we wanted minced, not pressed.

I also like the mini-prep for mayonnaise, which can be problematic in a full-sized processor, and for quick smaller amounts of pestos and the like.

_______________________

Spices: I have vindaloo and rogan josh spice mixes from Penzeys and was hoping you could help me figure out how to use them. I know we should use fat (butter) to release the flavors. I am interested in vegetarian dishes. I tried using the rogan josh for chickpeans and it turned out pretty good, but not the same as restaurant-quality. Here's what I did: Saute onions in butter, add spices, add a bit of tomato paste and chickpeas. Thanks!

Bonnie: Try warming the spices first in a dry skillet. I've watched Indian cooks do this -- it releases the natural oils and the slight toasting kicks up the flavor.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: Hi Free Rangers -- My husband got me a beautiful couscousier for Christmas, and I'm excited to try it. Would you have any suggestions as to recipes I should try? Thanks!

Joe: A couscoussier requires an old-fashioned couscous recipe, such as this one for Couscous With Seven Vegetables. You might also peruse this great blog by LA chef-instructor Farid Zadi.

_______________________

Durham, N.C.: Hi, Food staff! Thanks for the article about vegetarian "meat" -- very interesting. (And the picture of the fake meat -- wow. I haven't seen fake meat that looks like that in N.C.) Just wanted to share my two cents: The article defined philosophical and pragmatic vegetarians, yet I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. I've been a vegetarian for almost nine years, and I eat fake meat -- not because I miss eating meat but because I like the way the faux stuff tastes (and I have no idea if it tastes like meat or not -- I can't remember!). If I couldn't get fake meat, though, I would still be a vegetarian. Thanks again for the article -- I am looking forward to trying the "chicken" pot pie!

Andrea Sachs: I am so glad you enjoyed the article. It was pretty eye-opening for me as well, a vegetarian of 20 years.
I was amazed at how real the fake meat looked -- minus the lobster. I remember the gardenburgers of yore that looked as if they had rolled off the grill and onto the forest floor. Now, I have to double-check the label to be sure I am not being tricked.

_______________________

Basically vegetarian in Bailey's Crossroads: Good afternoon. Today's article on mock meats reminded me of one of the challenges I've faced in the past: trying to figure out how to estimate the calories in restaurant foods that use ingredients with which I'm less familiar. Can you offer any guidance on estimating calories and portion sizes (the way meateaters use a 3-oz portion of chicken that's about the size of a deck of cards) to give vegetarians a similar shortcut? Thanks.

Bonnie: Oh that's a tough one. Depends on what the "chicken" is really made of. Your best bet might be to either estimate using any nutritional numbers the restaurant offers, or check the packages of the alt meat you purchase -- more than half of the ones we taste-tested had some per-serving nutritional info on the labels. (I'd check but we don't have any more of the stuff in-house.) Call Terry's Healthy Food store in Rockville at 301-770-6778 and he may be able to give you some idea.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: Hello - I hope someone from the Food Section or one of the chatters can help. I have a great recipe for homemade pappardelle with duck, but it calls for duck leg meat and I can't find the duck. Any ideas where can I purchase duck legs without having to purchase the entire duck? Thanks.

Bonnie: Sure. We've seen duck legs (confit) at Whole Foods and SuperFresh in Spring Valley, at some Giant Food stores.

_______________________

Downtown D.C.: I would like to make a sugarfree flourless chocolate cake for my grandpa who is diabetic, and bring it to him in NJ. I found the recipe below, but it says to make in two 8 oz. ramekins. Can you help me figure out how to adapt this recipe so I can make it in a regular round cake pan (8 or 9 inch)? Thanks so much! Homemade desserts mean a lot to my grandpa.

3 ounces unsweetened Baker's chocolate

4 tablespoons unsalted butter

2 egg yolks

10 tablespoons granulated Splenda

Pinch of salt

3 egg whites, whipped until firm

1 tablespoon unsweetened dark cocoa powder

Preheat oven to 400 degrees. Start with about an 8-ounce ramekin for each of the individual cakes. Cut a piece of parchment into a circle to fit the bottom of the ramekin. Place the parchment in the bottom and butter both the parchment and the sides of the ramekin.

In top of a double boiler over simmering water, melt the chocolate with the butter until smooth. Remove from heat and transfer to medium-size bowl. Whisk in the egg yolks, then the Splenda and salt.

Whip the egg whites to firm peaks and transfer on top of the batter. Sift the cocoa powder over the egg whites and fold until smooth. Spoon the batter into the ramekin up to 1/2-inch from the top edge.

Place the ramekins on a cookie sheet for easy handling. Position on lower rack of oven and bake until the batter begins to rise to the top and the center seems firm yet still moist, about 8 minutes. Remove from oven and allow to rest for 1 minute.

Leigh: Both an 8" and 9" cake pan have about a 6 cup capacity (the reason they both share this volume is accounted for by the typical difference in the height of their sides). So, depending on how many ramekins the recipe calls for you can divide or multiply accordingly. Ideally, if it made 6 (8 oz = 1 cup) you wouldn't have to alter the recipe at all. You may want to check for cooking time and expect to extend it a bit because you are also changing the surface area exposed to the oven/pan. Good luck!

Leigh: Ah hah. I see your recipe calls for 2 8-oz. ramekins which means you will need to triple the recipe for your 8 or 9-inch cake.

_______________________

Indian chickpeas: Madhur Jaffrey has an excellent chickpea recipe in her vegetarian cookbook (can't remember the name of the cookbook, but it was Asian vegetarian recipes). It's based on what she grew up eating. You could try your Penzey's spice mixture and follow the procedure in the recipe. I think she did dry roast some spices, and also pureed onion and maybe garlic.

Joe: That would be "Madhur Jaffrey's World Vegetarian," I'm guessing, which brings me to...

_______________________

cookbook question: can you recommend some to help me shift veg-ward, specifically a reference book or encyclopedia of vegetable recipes, in the joy of cooking or other reference volume vein, and then a meal-focused vegetarian cookbook, not single-ethnicity but with ethnic inspired fare. it could be encyclopedic too. i've been thinking of mark bittman's new vegetarian one, or a deborah madison book. thanks!

Joe: For the second part of your question, for some STRANGE reason "Madhur Jaffrey's World Vegetarian" just occurred to me.
Indeed, in addition to Bittman and Madison, which do have that encyclopedic feel, you should check out "Veganomicon: The Ultimate Vegan Cookbook," by Isa Chandra Moskowitz and Terry Hope Romero.

_______________________

Baltimore, Md.: Hi Free Rangers! Two things... First, thank you so much for the pressure cooker carnitas recommendation last week. Made it yesterday and it was fabulous (I ate it over a salad of greens and mango). Second, I used to be a big fan of fake meat, particularly the morningstar sausage patties, but I've recently been instructed not to eat wheat and gluten. I've yet to find any fake meats that don't include gluten and I'm wondering if you came across any in your search. Please help this fake-sausage lover!

Andrea Sachs: In an effort to get that fake sausage back on your morning table, we suggest you contact Terry Yuin at Terry's Healthy Food store in Rockville (301-770-6778). He has freezers full of imitation meats and works with a number of manufacturers around the country and Asia. A lot of the "meats" we selected for the story were soy-based and did not contain wheat or gluten (the "steak," for example). However, for sausage specifically, give Terry a ring and hopefully he can offer some advice--or sausage.

_______________________

Re: Yellow Curry Paste: I just bought some at Rodman's on Wisconsin Avenue. I was looking for green curry paste (to make the Dinner in 25 min from last week--delish, by the way)but they only carried the yellow stuff.

Jane Black: Well spotted. There you go!

Bonnie: Way to go -- and thanks!

_______________________

Passion Fruit: Hi,

I love passion fruit with a passion, too! My Whole Foods generally stocks them in winter. But I don't think they go bad all that quickly. They become somewhat shriveled and dimpled when ready to eat. I've kept them for weeks. For a quick fix, try passion fruit nectar alone or in a cocktail. The nectar is easy to find. (Passion fruit tic tacs are pretty tasty too.)

Bonnie: Thanks for the info. Free Range chatters are the best.

Joe: Passion fruit is quite possibly my favorite single flavor in the world. Although yuzu's up there.

_______________________

Roasting in Bethesda: Thank you for the article on roasting! It is one of my favorite things to cook during the fall/winter! I do have aquestions - I have heard before you are supposed to salt and pepper the meat and let is sit for 15 mins or so before heating. Is this a good idea? What does it do? Also - can you suggest a specific roasting pan to use? I need to purchase a new one.

Thank you!

Steve Katz: Hi and thanks for writing. Yes there have been some recently published articles in good food and cooking magazines about slow roasting, recommending salting prior to roasting.

However, as we discuss in today's article, salting in advance draws moisture out of meat, and the goal in slow roasting is to conserve the moisture in the meat -- it is preferable to use seasoning for flavoring -- and you will find that it is best to do so at two specific stages: Just before you roast the meat, and before or as you serve it.

Beef benefits from salt. Michel Richard emphasized to me that freshly ground pepper is best added when you make the gravy or serve the meat because "your noise can feel it!"

Roasting pans do not require anything special, however, my recommendation is to purchase an inexpensive black wire roasting rack (collapsible or not) and place that on the rack to obtain the maxium exposure and flow of warm air in the oven. I have actually bought these at Strosniders!

_______________________

Alexandria, Va.: The fake meats taste too processed to me. I prefer whole foods and try to be as vegetarian as possible, so if I want a meaty taste, I add mushrooms or beans with sauces and heavy seasonings to my dishes. Simulated meat products just make people crave meats, which makes it harder to stick to being vegetarian! I am looking for satisfying, heartier vegetarian fare that won't cause meat cravings.

Steve Katz: You make a good point because the ingredients you listed are among those, particularly mushrooms, for increasing the umami in foods that we prepare.

Joe: Umami, for the uninitiated, is that vaunted fifth taste (after sweet, sour, salty, bitter) that some describe as savory or meaty. Fascinating story about it, but experts say it's found in highest amounts in such things as tomatoes, aged/mature meats, fermented things like mature/aged wines and fish sauce, etc. Some nutritionists also think that including things that pack a lot of umami into healthful recipes might be one of the keys to creating satisfaction.

_______________________

Olney, Md.: I will likely try some of the roast beef recipes this weekend.

Several weeks ago, I stocked up on several great looking Premium Gold Angus (PGA) beef roasts during the 12 roasts of Christmas promotion at my local Super Fresh.

For my money, PGA is the best tasting beef period. So the recipes will come in very handy.

Thanks again for all your efforts and contributions to the Food Section and a super Happy New Year of fine, sensible eating.

Steve Katz: Thank you for writing, really it is consumers like yourself that are responsible for improving the quality and availability of beef -- both in USDA grades, and brands such as the one you mentioned.

The key in slow roasting is to remember that it is not pot roast -- and to use cuts that will slice cleanly -- and to cut against the grain for the most tender tasting beef.

I have recommended Roseda Farms which is a local naturally raised Angus purveyor and all the meat is dry aged, which ordinary grocery meat and brands are not.

Their website is listed in the article.

_______________________

Duck legs (confit): Arrowine on Lee Highway sells D'Artagnan duck legs, and I've seen it before at Wegman's too.

Bonnie: Duck, duck...everywhere.

_______________________

Chantilly, Va.: I'm really interested in experimenting with Indian cooking. I would like to start out with butter chicken. I've searched the Web for a recipe, but have come away overwhelmed and confused as to what constitutes a really good butter chicken recipe. Do you have an awesome butter chicken recipe lurking in your recipe box or can direct me where to find one? Thanks.

Bonnie: We do, Chantilly! Put forth by our Sunday Source colleague Priya Phadke in a Staff Favorites article that ran in June 2006. Marinating the chicken and using fresh spices seem to be key.
Chicken Makhani

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: I LOVE making stews and soups in the crockpot -- really warm, hearty things -- but many of the ideas in the slow-cooking books I have are for things like pot roast or other red meats, which I try to avoid for health reasons... for stews and soups, do you think black beans are a good substitute for red meat? (For example, if the dish also calls for potatoes, onions and carrots.) I'm going to be experimenting tomorrow night and am trying to think of what I should add - or perhaps just the veggies on their own would be okay?

Steve Katz: A suggestion for cooking in the vein of slower cooking and using black beans is to look to some Cuban cookbooks, in which the use of black beans is common.

A favorite and reliable cookbook in this area is Mary Randelman's Memories of a Cuban Kitchen. See how they use black beans, and you will get the best ideas and recipes. In addition, I have made her picadillo without meat by adding sweet potatoes cubed and fried instead, and it was the hit of the barbecue!

_______________________

Petworth, D.C.: OK, it's not in NW DC, but there is a good Thai grocery in Silver Spring (forget what street it's on, but it's right down the block from the Safeway up there.). Easily accessible from either the Silver Spring metrorail station, or from the 70 bus (70 series buses run up Georgia Ave)

Joe: You must mean Thai Market (902 Thayer Ave, Silver Spring, 301-495-2779), across from the Safeway. Thanks!

_______________________

Annapolis, Md.: Where can I purchase that wonderful cutting board with the steer handles on the front of today's Food Section?

Thanks

Steve Katz: Hi and thanks for writing.

The carving board is an heirloom passed down from my father, and I could not resist using it to showcase the roasts prepared for the article.

The background on the carving board is that a similar one is currently being made by the Wilton Armetale, and you can perhaps check it out at www.builderssquare.com -- I do not know that the quality of the wood or the steer heads are quite the same, perhaps made of lighter materials, but you will get the look and effect you desire!

If you ever find an antique one, on Ebay for example, grab it!

_______________________

Cooking with Wine: What are the best types of wine to use when a recipe calls for dry red or white wine?

Jane Black: Julia Moskin of the New York Times addressed this question in a fascinating article she wrote last year. It had been conventional wisdom that you shouldn't cook with cheap wines because you shouldn't cook with anything you wouldn't drink. But her tests showed that cheap wine was just fine and didn't affect flavor. Indeed, the cheaper wines actually showed better. For whites, use an inexpensive chardonnay or sauvignon blanc -- or vermouth will do in a pinch. For reds, look for something smooth like merlot or a cab blend. Strong tannins can leave a sour taste in the food.

_______________________

Alexandria, Va.: Interesting article on fake meats, thanks. My approach to cooking lately has been to go the "minimally processed" route, so I'd rather eat a real steak with one ingredient than a fake one with 10. That being said, I do occasionally get the fake breakfast sausage because I think they taste good, and I like to switch it up with the meat-based version once in a while. I would be extremely hesitant to purchase any of the other items on your list, although I would maybe order one in a restaurant, particularly if the sauce and accompaniments looked appetizing.

Just another wrinkle on the whole organic vs. local vs. vegetarian vs. whatever debate!

Andrea Sachs: I too am a minimalist when it comes to labels; if the ingredients go on for more than a paragraph, the item goes back on the shelf. It was very interesting, therefore, to read the packaging for these fake meats. For example, one "meat" listed only soy protein, soy lecithin, soy salad oil, salt, sugar and yeast extract. Since I could pronounce them all, I threw it in my basket.
But I agree that sometimes these products are better served in a sauce or mixed with noodles, rice, etc. The recipes tone down the soy-ness of the meats and emphasize their all-naturalness.

_______________________

Goat cheese stuffed dates: Hi there,

I recently saw a recipe for these that sounded great - it was warmed/broiled and the cheese melted. But there was some other ingredient or 2 that made it over the top.

I bought the dates and goat cheese, but can't find the recipe!

Any ideas??

Thanks!

Joe: It had to be bacon, or maybe pancetta. That, for me, would take these where I wanted. I've done them (or prunes) stuffed with blue cheese or, my favorite, a marcona almond. Anyway, use a paring knife to enlarge the hole in each date, stuff with the goat cheese, wrap with bacon and grill, pan-grill or broil until the bacon is crispy.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: I absolutely love Vietnamese Pho soup, but I don't make it at home because my husband and son don't eat meat. Could I make it and just skip the beef, or would this dramatically change the taste and not make it good anymore? There are so many wonderful Asian dishes out there (except for Indian) that I just can't share with my family as they are all beef, pork, or chicken.

Bonnie: I've just done a quick Web search of vegetarian phos, and it seems that folks are pretty satisfied with the flavors, as long as the simmered stock has those characteristic flavors of star anise and ginger. Maybe you or we can coax a recipe out of Nam Viet in Cleveland Park; that restaurant's vegetarian pho is really good.

_______________________

Arlington, Va.: Question for you about braising, one of my favorite cooking methods. In Harold McGee's article in the NYT last week about properly using heat in the kitchen, he recommends braising in the oven with the lid ajar or completely off. This really surprised me, as many cooks / cookbook authors not only recommend a tight-fitting lid, but also a layer of parchment paper underneath the lid. I understand the rationale to a point -- braising with a lid, even in a low oven, may cause liquid to boil (instead of gently simmering). Does braising with the lid off (leading to more evaporation, and maybe a less concentrated sauce?) really work better? Any thoughts on this?

Steve Katz: Harold McGee usually has specific reasons for his recommendations based on the science of how food works -- from a culinary perspective there are a couple of points to remember.

You are right that braising is best when it is very slow and the ingredients are not boiled because even meats that need "breaking down" actually benefit from doing so in the temperature range between 100 and 140 degrees. Collagen in particular gelatinizes at around 140 degrees -- and if you take liquid to the boiling point, you rush past this beneficial stage and in fact will produce tougher meat.

You will note that most of the recipes for braising are for less expensive cuts of meat that are "tougher" -- actually they are from the exercise cuts of the steer -- and unlike rib eyes, strip steaks, tenderloins, or porterhouse steaks, the braising cuts have muscle and connective tissue and it is the latter that needs breaking down.

If you stick with your approach of braising with the lid on and a parchment lid underneath, with a slit in the center of the paper, your ingredients will braise nicely, the top of the ingredients will stay more moist than if you simply have the lid on only.

Keeping the lid ajar does not change the temperature though it may speed the evaporation. However, the moisture is beneficial to food, especially meats, that have to be braised.

Your best technique for monitoring the braising liquid temperature is to watch it, and open the lid every now and then. You do not want it to boil.

With regard to a sauce, it is most common to strain a liquid from a braising pot after everything has cooked -- remove the fat, and then reduce or even add wine, broth, or water and simmer and reduce.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: About the Fake meat article... I've been a vegetarian for years and have tried various brands of fake meat. Tastes vary quite a bit from one brand to another. I know that in standard grocery stores, Morningstar Farms and Boca have both fake hamburger and fake chicken that differ quite a bit in texture and flavor. In your article, you seem to have stuck almost exclusively to one brand in your taste testing. Why didn't you alternate a little more? Thanks.

Andrea Sachs: In my reporting, I stopped by a number of markets that sell fake meats, including Whole Foods, which sells the major imitation meat brands. However, for the more obscure or unusual meats, like lobster and shrimp, we needed to go to a store that specializes in this category. However, the article did touch on other manufacturers besides Vegebest, such as VegeBurger and MorningStar Farms.

_______________________

Madhur Jaffrey: Thank you! I was the one who mentioned it, and I was blanking on the name, although I can picture the cover in my mind! I've had the cookbook for YEARS (maybe 20 years???) and it is truly excellent. No fake meat in there! Some of the recipes are complicated, but there's enough interesting stuff in there to give you great ideas. Her commentary is very good too -- I think it's the fact that she was raised in a vegetarian country, and therefore it's not a big lifestyle adjustment for her, it's a natural thing.

Joe: If you've had it for 20 years, it's not this one, cause it was published in 1999. Maybe it's the 1981 "Madhur Jaffrey's World-of-the-East Vegetarian Cooking"? That one had a very colorful illustration of a woman with lots of swirly typography on the cover. (The newest one is a gorgeous pic of Maddhur standing with a bowl of food in her hands.)

_______________________

Fake meat: I've been a vegetarian for about six years (no meat/poultry/fish, but do eat eggs and dairy), and I've tried a number of the fake meat products. I highly recommend the Trader Joe's fake sausage (comes in a flat red box, frozen) as an excellent sausage substitute. Also, H Mart in Wheaton sells a wonderful packaged tofu -- it's called "hot spicy tofu" or something like that, and is in the Wall of Tofu on the left of their produce section. It comes in stir-fry sized chunks that I swear anyone would think is chicken. And you don't have to press out the water, it's ready right of the package (although in spite of the name, it is not in fact particularly spicy).

What I haven't had much luck with is the fake meat coldcuts, which always seem to taste terrible. What works well for me instead in a sandwich is to slice extra firm tofu into 1/2" slabs, dredge in flour and fry in a little olive or canola oil, about 5-6 min/side, and add a little soy sauce or a homemade or prepared marinade sauce (like Soyaki). Let it cool and put two slabs on your sandwich, with some greens of choice, mustard/mayo/whatever, and it's much better than the packaged soy coldcuts.

Having said all that, if you are going to truly go vegetarian, you can't rely just on fake meat. You've got to branch out and find veggies you like, but still manage to get enough protein. Easier if you eat eggs and dairy of course. But the fake meat is great to have around for a quick dinner.

I would LOVE LOVE LOVE the Deborah Madison book....

Joe: I bet you would. Dare I give the book to the person who used ALL CAPS to beg for it? I PROBABLY WOULD DARE.

_______________________

Falls Church, Va.: Would love to get the vegie cookbook for my hub. My girls and I love meat. Here is my story to win the book. Husband was getting home before me last night. Told him to warm up the leftover pork tenderloin and cauliflower for me and kiddies, and also to make an easy cheese pizza as a side for us and an entree for him. Told him there was a dry mix of pizza dough in the pantry in a bag that looked like cookie mix. He was fine with my instructions. When I got home and opened the door, I was greeted by an awful burning smell and the sight of hubby scraping disgusting burnt stuff off the pizza stone. He had not really listened to me on the phone. When he pulled the leftovers out of the fridge he spied what he thought was pizza dough wrapped in wax paper in the way back. He made pizza out of sugar cookie dough! Totally disgusting gross mess. The kids got their leftovers for dinner and he and I ate yogurt!

Joe: OK, you might just win. Your hubby needs a prize after that big mess...

_______________________

re: Asian Markets: There's an H-Mart on Georgia Ave down from the Wheaton Metro stop, a Metro bus should run too it.

Within walking distance of that metro is a smaller Asian market in the shopping center in the Georgia Ave-University Blvd intersection. I think that one might actually be a Thai market, or at least the attached deli is Thai. I think. I do know that that deli has amazing food.

Jane Black: Good suggestion. Is the "deli" a restaurant or a take out? Always looking for good Thai takeout...

_______________________

Arlington, Va.: During slow roasting, if I am using a convection oven, should I turn the fan on or off? Thanks for the great article.

Steve Katz: Hi and thanks for writing. This is a great question.

Convection ovens are so common these days, but the answer to your question is to TURN THE CONVECTION FAN OFF DURING SLOW ROASTING!

There should be a switch on your stove to turn it off, and the reason that you want to do this is that slow roasting is about controlling evaporation and slowing it down -- convection fans speed up evaporation --

As one chef told me, "convection ovens are like reverse wind chill in winter -- it's like putting a roast in the winds of the Sahara desert!"

_______________________

Nam Viet: Oh yes please, so try to get their vegetarian pho recipe!!! Please. Please. Please. However, I have a feeling they may be tight lipped about it. It is quite popular.

Bonnie: Send an email to food@washpost.com so we can contact you...

_______________________

Fairfax, Va.: Although I found the fakes, revolting at worst, amusing at best-I think they might gain a valued place in our family menus. Although I eat very little meat (although I have no problem with people who love it) and have gone for years at a time without eating it, I am married to a guy who cannot see life worth living without burgers, hotdogs, etc and has inherited the high cholesterol gene. Your article was really appreciated because I am going to try soy dogs, but please tell me what is the best fake burger? Not substitute veggie patty-I mean sham BEEF! Fooling this guy would be an act of love. Thanks!

Andrea Sachs: Ok, some magical cooking skills will be needed to sway your meat-loving husband over to the imitation side. He will put up a fight; he might even dash out at midnight to McDonald's -- but don't give up.
To be honest, you will never find an exact copy of his favorite cut or burger. But you can start him off slowly by throwing soy crumbles into chili for a meaty taste. For burgers, PETA awarded the Golden Bun to Boca's Roasted Onion Burger, followed by Yves' The Good Burger and MorningStar Farms' Better n' Burgers. (For the complete list of winners, see www.peta.org/feat/goldbun/1.html.) Just keep the ketchup and mustard on hand!

_______________________

tube vs. Bundt pan: Does the difference between a tube pan and a Bundt pan affect baking? Or is it just decorative? I have an apple cake recipe from an early-80s Post article. At the time the recipe ran, Dad cut it out for me and asked me to try it. I did, using Mom's one-piece tube pan (tube pan was specified in the recipe). We loved it so much it became a regular. Years later, after a strenuous search to find the then-lost recipe, I tried it again, this time in a two-piece tube pan, which was all I could find/afford on my own. DISASTER-- the batter, which is fairly free flowing, leaked out of the base at the gap and all over my oven, the weekend before Thanksgiving.

I haven't tried the recipe since but would love to. Can I use my trusty one-piece Bundt pan?

Thanks.

Bonnie: As long as your Bundt can contain the same amount of batter, there shouldn't be a prob. But all you have to do for the 2-part tube pan -- or any baking pan with a removable bottom -- is to tightly wrap the outside of it in aluminum foil. Such a disaster can be avoided!

_______________________

Tyson's Corner: Thank you for highlighting the veg meats today! Although my husband and I aren't vegetarian, we're trying to eat more meat free options. One great thing about these mock meats is they give a good protein serving whereas in other places (such as Italian), it's hard to get the same.

Joe: Good point. Glad you liked it!

_______________________

Reston, Va.: Thanks so much for the fake meat story. I didn't know about Terry's.

Andrea Sachs: He is tucked away in a tiny space in Rockville, in an industrial setting that's hardly appealing. But his market like Toy 'R Us for vegetarians.

_______________________

Joe: Transfer us to a platter or cutting board, tent us loosely with aluminum foil, and allow us to rest for at least 15 to 20 minutes before carving -- because we're done!

Thanks for all the great questions, chatters. We appreciate your interest, and you always keep us on our toes, besides at our keyboards.

Now, for the book winners: Indeed, the chatter whose husband made a burning mess out of an attempt at cheese pizza deserves to give him something inspirational, so she'll get "Vegetarian Cooking for Everyone" by Deborah Madison. Let us know what he makes and how you and he like it! Maybe it will inspire some nights in which the whole family eats and enjoys the same (veggie) meal... The chatter who asked about converting that sugar-free chocolate cake recipe into a larger pan will get "The New Family Cookbook For People With Diabetes." Just send your mailing information to food@washpost.com, and we'll get you your books.

Thanks, and until next week, happy cooking (roasting), eating and reading.

_______________________

Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions. washingtonpost.com is not responsible for any content posted by third parties.


© 2008 Washingtonpost.Newsweek Interactive

Discussion Archive