At Issue: Immigrant Driver IDs

Proof of U.S. Citizenship Required Before Licenses Can Be Issued

Gov. Martin O'Malley rejected a proposal yesterday to issue separate driver's licenses to undocumented immigrants and legal residents, saying that Maryland should comply with a federal security law by requiring immigrants to prove they are here legally before they can drive.

Washington Post staff writer Lisa Rein was online Wednesday, Jan. 16, at 1 p.m. ET to discuss the reversal of the long-standing policy that made Maryland one of only seven states that allow driving privileges for illegal immigrants.

The governor's decision effectively reversed a long-standing policy that made Maryland one of only seven states that allow driving privileges for illegal immigrants. It came just days after his transportation secretary had briefed lawmakers on a proposed two-tier system that would have provided some latitude.

A transcript follows.

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Lisa Rein: Hi everyone!

I'm Lisa Rein, a State House reporter in Annapolis, where the General Assembly session is in full swing. Things have gotten interesting in the past few days on the hot issue of illegal immigration and how Maryland plans to comply with Real ID, the federal mandate that requires states to create secure driver's licenses similar to identity cards. Gov. Martin O'Malley (D) entered the fray yesterday, saying he wants to end the state policy of issuing licenses to undocumented immigrants. This ran counter to a recommendation from the state's transportation agency, which suggested a two-tier license system, one for legal residents and the other for those not in the country legally. Please fire away!

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Bethesda, Md.: What part of illegal in "illegal immigrant" do they(lawmakers) not understand? Finally, repeal this stupid law! Geez!

Lisa Rein: Hi Bethesda,

Many Republicans and conservative Democrats in the legislature agree with you. However, the policy allowing undocumented immigrants to obtain licenses was a response to public safety concerns: These residents would drive anyway, but just not take a driving test or get car insurance. And that's viewed as a potential safety issue.

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Rockville: Business traveler: I travel biweekly every month, and with the fed's new rule, I'm wondering where it would put me as a Maryland resident. Since Maryland has not yet figured out where they stand on this issue or how they will adhere to the required federal proposal what will happen to people like me who travel? Will we be stuck at an airport, not allowed to board a plane? Also I just renewed my license, will I have to pay for another one or will I be allowed to wait the appropiate amount of time before I am required to renew my license again?

Lisa Rein: Hi Rockville, you are not alone in your confusion. Officials in every state have been struggling with how to implement this Real ID law. Maryland fully intends to comply, and the Department of Homeland Security just last week issued a bunch of regulations that gave states more time. Your driver's license will be legit to get you on planes, into federal buildings and even a nuclear power plant. Starting in 2011, motorists born after Dec. 1 1964 will have to submit a digital photo, birth certificate or similar proof of identity. If you're older 50 you have until 2018 to meet the new requirement.

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Crofton, Md.: I understand that Governor O'Malley's decision was met with derision by Casa de Maryland. Perhaps Casa de Maryland needs to realize that it needs to stop aiding and abetting lawbreakers. If it refuses, then perhaps the governor should consider discontinuing any state-funded support to that institution.

Lisa Rein: Hi Crofton. This issue as you know is complicated and inspires passion on both sides. Maryland is a state with hundreds of thousands of immigrants, most legal, some illegal. I don't think Casa de Maryland is really the issue here... The state for years has had a policy that does not require a legal presence for drivers.

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Aspen Hill, Md.: This is long overdue. My only question is why this can't be phased in starting in May. Anyone getting a new license, or renewing after the statutory start date for Real ID compliance, ought to have to prove that they are legally here.

Lisa Rein: Hi Aspen Hill,

You're right, May 2008 was the original date for states to comply with Real ID. But just about every state balked at that timetable because the federal law is one of these unfunded mandates that is gonna cost tens of millions of dollars to meet. For example, the state's transportation chief, John Porcari, told a legislative committee yesterday that customer service is gonna stink for a while at the motor vehicle offices. That's because motorists will no longer be able to get their licenses renewed by mail.. They will all have to come into the office to produce birth certificate, social security cards and other documents that prove their identity. It's a big bureaucratic mess.. So that's why they aren't moving to change anything, including the legal presence issue, this year. However, Jan. 1, 2010 is the deadline for states to require legal presence.

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Aspen Hill, Md.: Why do reporters and editors for the Post conflate "legal immigrants" and "illegal aliens" and "undocumented persons" into the single word "immigrants"? Legal immigrants really resent being lumped in with illegal aliens.

Lisa Rein: Hi. I don't think we conflate them. Our stories try to make clear that people who are undocumented differ from those who are in the country legally. However,the Post does not use the term "alien" to describe those who are undocumented. Lou Dobbs does, but we try to steer clear of characterizing people in a way that expresses opinions about their legal status. It's a good question.

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Maryland: Newsflash -- even WITH a license many people don't get car insurance. That's the dumbest reason ever to allow allow someone here illegally to access a gov't issued ID.

Lisa Rein: Maryland, certainly you're right, but I'm almost sure that Maryland and other states have laws that require proof of car insurance in order to register a car, which partially, though not completely, addresses the issue.

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Washington, D.C.: I am a fairly liberal Democrat who believes the immigration laws are often deliberately not enforced. I do not think you can say Republicans and conservative Democrats are the only ones who support tighter laws. (and those who do are not racists.) I beg of you to please bring a little more nuance to this issue.

Lisa Rein: Washington, you are right. Many people--and politicians--are angry that the federal government has not addressed this issue. The problem of enforcement is thus left to states and local governments. Then you have local police departments that are caught in the middle, as they are not trained to be immigration agents.

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Social Security Cards, Legal ID: Weren't the DMV requesting those legal ID cards along with proof of residence all along? I remember getting my license a long time ago and that was one of the requirements. One of your previous comments made it seem like they weren't requiring that. Am I missing something?

I also believe that Casa is a big issue for Maryland, but I'm glad the governor is finally letting go of the supporting attitude he was giving towards that org.

Lisa Rein: Hi...The Motor Vehicle Administration asks for proof of residency from those born here and those not (a utility bill, stuff like that). For foreign-born license applicants, they ask for foreign passports, birth certificates or other documents from their home country.

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Baltimore, Md.: Is the insurance cost being factored in here? I know rates are going up because there are more unlicensed, uninsured drivers because people who have been here (and had licenses) will not be able to renew them. Why does DMV have to turn into INS?

Why not have a two-tiered system?

Lisa Rein: Hi Baltimore. I'm not sure whether insurance rates go up if claims from uninsured motorists increase. I assume so but am not positive. Gov. O'Malley says the reason he does not want to pursue a the two-tier system is because Maryland would be only one of two states on the Eastern seaboard that do not require undocumented immigrants to show legal presence. He said he fears this would draw illegal immigrants to Maryland from other states that have clamped down.

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Madison, Wisc.: Thanks so much for sitting in the Hot Seat today! Question: How do auto insurance companies weigh in on this matter? I see more risk to insured motorists arising from accidents with people with no driver's licenses. How do you report an accident to your carrier when you can't even identify who hit you?

Lisa Rein: Hi Madison, someone else just asked this question about insurance and it's definitely something I need to pursue.

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Washington, D.C.: Do licenses for illegal immigrants make it easier for businesses to hire them (let's remember that "illegal" also applies to the people who hire them) or does it not matter?

Lisa Rein: Hi DC, that's an interesting question. I think that if someone has a license and a car, they are valuable to any employer, whether they are here legally or not, just like I couldn't do my job at the Post without a car and and a license. I do know that Maryland's current policy of not asking drivers to prove they are here legally does NOT apply to people seeking a commercial license, e.g. one to drive a truck.

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Maryland: Why the age distintion? I'm trying to figure out why my sister and I will have to comply with real ID in 2011 and my brothers won't have to comply until 2018. It seems arbitrary. Better to roll it out as licenses come due for renewal.

Lisa Rein: The Dept of Homeland Security, as I understand it, wanted to give a break to older drivers who may have trouble locating Social Security cards, birth certificates and other documents. I think also this was a strategy designed to help states comply with the new law by essentially phasing it in. I know, it's pretty complicated and the motor vehicle agency is going to have quite a time telling drivers who must comply when.

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Edgewater, Md.: I was rear-ended by a non-English speaking individual with no license, an out-of-state car of undetermined ownership and where a witness to the accident claimed he saw the man driving erratically for several blocks before he hit me. He wasn't arrested and can't be found. I'm out $2,500 (it was the boat I was towing that he hit). Would my situation have been better had there been two tiered licenses?

Lisa Rein: Hi Edgewater. I'm sorry, that sounds awful. Well, as the law stands now, if the person who hit you was a resident of Maryland, he would have been eligible to get a driver's license and, one would assume,insurance. But as another person chatting with us mentioned a few minutes ago, there are drivers out there who don't get any of these things. Virginia and the District do not follow Maryland's policy and require motorists to prove that they are here legally.

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Baltimore, Md.: Hi Lisa --

Maryland already issues licenses to Virginia residents. What is the difference? Won't an influx of residence increase the tax base? I don't know any "illegal" who doesn't work, and work hard.

What about ID cards -- will the same rules apply?

Lisa Rein: Hi Baltimore, now I'm confused. Maryland doesn't issue driver's licenses to Virginia residents that I know of!

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Undocumented, documented: You stated that "we try to steer clear of characterizing people in a way that expresses opinions about their legal status"but isn't it true that the media and The Post has grouped all aliens into one catagory "illegal" when in essence there are two seperate classifications, those that are documented(can be tracked since they came here through a visa system) and those that are undocumented(can't be tracked because they came through the border or other means without a visa)? Also why is it that every "illegal" (which really could mean those that are on the verge of being legal) are always grouped together when it comes to informing the public?

Lisa Rein: I'm sorry if I'm missing your point. But if someone has documentation to prove that they are in the U.S. legally, like a work visa, green card, etc., then we would call them a "legal" immigrant.

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Public Safety: I fully support the public safety argument made for allowing illegal immigrants to get driver's licenses. While it may not guarantee that they actually have insurance, it does give a known address for filing police reports and when filing a lawsuit. Don't think that just because someone is here illegally that you can't get a personal injury lawyer and take what little they have.

Also, and here's my question, wouldn't allowing these people to have licenses make it that much easier for the feds to find them for deportation or whatever other action they would take... that is, if the feds ever decided to enforce immigration laws?

Lisa Rein: Hi Pub Safety,

Under a two-tier system of licenses that Gov. O'Malley's transportation staff was recommending, there would have been one license issued to people who could not prove their legal status, and a more secure card for legal residents that would have complied with the Real Id mandate. Immigrant advocates were concerned that the "lower tier" license would have been a kind of scarlet letter where undocumented license-holders could have been targeted for deportation. Right now, everyone gets the same license, so I don't know that federal immigration authorities distingish status based on licenses.

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Washington, D.C.: I'm just so tired of people referring to undocumented workers as deliberate lawbreakers. Can't anyone appreciate the fact that most of these people come from very poor countries where they have little or no opportunities to make a living or ever provide for their families? Furthermore, they'd love to come here legally but will never be approved for a visa. Aren't they allowed to have dreams and aspirations? So, they come here the best way they can and face grave danger in doing so. The great majority of them live here peacefully and work very hard. Can't we be concerned about all the other problems facing this country right now?

Lisa Rein: Washington,

This is a view held by many people, that these are people who take jobs American-born workers do not want, etc. etc. This issue has really catapulted to the center of the presidential race, and I think that's partly why Gov. O'Malley felt he had to address it the way he did.

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Aspen Hill, Md.: Does it seem likely that if the Maryland Assembly legislated faster compliance with Real ID, that the Governor would follow suit and accelerate the process?

Lisa Rein: Republicans in the General Assembly have already put in bills to do just that, accelerate a legal presence requirement for Maryland. I'm just guessing here but I believe the Democrats who dominate the legislature and state government --and O'Malley is a Democrat--want to push this off until next year, when the presidential race is over.

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Moving to Maryland: If the state requires proof of legal status, does a driver's license from another state suffice?

What if said state allows illegal immigrants to gain a license? What verification would Maryland then do to ensure their legal status?

Lisa Rein: Hi Moving,

A dwindling number of states don't require legal presence, and they are Maine, New Mexico, Michigan, Hawaii,Oregon and Washington. But Michigan and Oregan are looking to do what Maryland is proposing. I believe that a license from one of these states that does not show legal presence would be a problem in Maryland if and when the requirement takes effect.

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Virginia and non state residents: So does Maryland allow non-state drivers to maintain their state license plates? I see that a lot of the Virginia licence plates, driving away from a place of residence early in the morning on my way to work.

Lisa Rein: Yikes, I'm not sure but if you are a Virginia resident, you've got to get a license in Virginia, and vice versa.

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Bethesda, Md.: I see that the MVA requires a SSN to renew or get a new license. Is that not enough to prove legal presence anymore?

Do you think Maryland will implement a "grandfathered" clause like Virginia whereunexpired licenses that were issued prior to 01/01/04 do not need to prove legal presence at renewal? I guess the question is geared towards having enforcement of Real ID for new applicants versus some (like me) who have been residing in Maryland for the last 20 plus- years.

Lisa Rein: Hi Bethesda, I believe the new rules on what documents to bring to the motor vehicle office will be very strict for foreign-born and American-born residents alike.

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Lisa Rein: Thank you everyone for participating. We will be writing more about this issue during the General Assembly session, which just started and goes for 90 days.

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