Energy Bill Impact

Washington Post energy writer Steven Mufson was online Tuesday, Jan. 22 at 11 a.m. ET to answer questions about how consumers will be affected by the energy bill, which was passed by Congress last month.

The new legislation is expected to change many of the appliances in the average American home. Read more in the Sunday Business story: Power Switch.

The transcript follows.

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Steven Mufson: Good morning and thanks for tuning into the Post. I cover energy at the Post and will do my best to answer your questions.

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Columbus, Ohio: Have the temporary tax credits that were in effect for energy efficient home improvements been re-enacted?

Steven Mufson: As I understand it, so far the federal tax credits for energy efficient home improvements have NOT been re-enacted. The extension was dropped when the energy bill's tax package was cut in December. I believe, however, that congressional leaders are planning to introduce legislation that would extend those credits, perhaps as part of a stimulus package.

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Quakertown, Pa.: I've installed new compact fluorescent bulbs in an overhead fan. They do not dim as do incandescent bulbs and they burned out quickly when using the rheostat.

Does the new law mean we will have to forgo the ambiance of dimmed lighting?

Steven Mufson: Some, but not all, compact fluorescent bulbs are dimmable. You should check on the packaging. I don't know what the rheostat does to them. But no, we will not forgo dimmed lighting.

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Amherst, Mass.: Please clarify if conventional incandescent lamps will be totally illegal. What about special applications such in very low temperatures where a fluorescent is difficult or impossible to start? Also, an incandescent lamp is a black-body radiator and as such has a light spectrum that is intrinsically different from any possible fluorescent lamp, and some applications rely on this. Not all fluorescent applications are now or ever will be dimmable.

This looks like the usual big-government unintended-impact ukase instead of allowing a free market to do what it does best. Responding to market forces occasioned by the cost of energy I have been systematically replacing incandescent lamps with fluorescent lamps, but I also have some applications for which that is not possible. I guess I'll start hoarding incandescent lamps for those areas.

Steven Mufson: These are good questions. First, as I just mentioned, there are some dimmable compact fluorescent bulbs out there, so you can find those if you look. There are also some Web sights that will ship bulbs if you have trouble finding them locally. Presumably it will get easier as time goes one to find more choice.

As for low temperatures, how low are you talking about? I have four or five bulbs outside (driveway, porch, back deck) and it was in the teens the night before last and they did fine (albeit after a bit of time to warm up). If your needs are greater than that, I'm sure there will be some other choices on the way such as light emitting diodes.

In general, though, your point about unintended consequences is fair enough. I'm sure we'll discover some things about these bulbs and one hopes those problems will be fixed now that companies are focused on them more. ALready companies are telling me about searching for new technologies that sound interesting.

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Washington, D.C.: You made this point in your article Sunday, but I think it bears repeating - the energy bill does not REQUIRE the use of compact fluorescents. It simply establishes an energy efficiency standard for lighting that CFLs already meet. Also, as you mentioned, CFLs contain a small amount of mercury. I've seen several news stories that seriously overstate the potential danger associated with their use. Sorry, not much of a question.

Steven Mufson: This is a good point. There will probably be other choices available. The amounts of mercury are small, but worth being careful. Some companies are looking for ways to get the mercury out of compact fluorescent bulbs altogether.

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Montgomery, Ala.: Power Grid Security: We have many gas appliances that must have electricity to operate. I worry therefore that should the power grid go down my gas furnace will not operate during a very cold spell. How does the energy bill affect the power grid's security?

Steven Mufson: The bill is huge, but I don't believe it addresses power grid security.

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Fort Washington, Md.: I've changed over to the new florescent screw in bulbs but there are still some areas I can not change yet. I have dimmer switches and these will not work in that area. I have chandelier lamps with the small base screw in and I've not found any to fit this fixture. I have the bathroom large round bulb and have not found anything that would look like it either... Is there going to be bulbs made to fit these other areas of the home?

Steven Mufson: I know the feeling. Again, there are dimmable bulbs available. There are also bulbs that fit into the chandelier base. One problem I've had, though, is that even if I find a bulb that fits into the base, sometimes the bulb is too big to fit into physical space the lamp leaves for the bulb. For those I think we just have to wait and hope that there will be more and more choices in this area.

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Farmington, NM: Please explain how additional taxes on the energy industry, like the $4,000 per drilling permit fee, will help find new oil and gas for American consumers? And how contemplating any additional such taxes and having it go to the government to fund research will find new energy sources? Other than the space program and the Manhattan project, how many general improvements in technology have been furthered by the federal government? I'm not against government programs per se, I just think the marketplace is a better way to use entrepreneurial spirit to make technology innovation. Microsoft, Apple, etc.!

Steven Mufson: Good questions. First, it would be hard to argue that taxes on the oil and gas industry are excessive in general. Today's oil prices are high enough to cover these sorts of fees.

Whether the government can successfully foster new technology is also a complicated topic. This will be more and more of an issue because a lot of people are talking about auctioning off emission allowances as part of a carbon cap and trade scheme. That will generate a lot of revenues for the federal government and a lot of people will be trying to get their hands on those dollars. Some will go for research, especially in carbon capture and storage technolgy. But whether that will produce a solution to that problem remains to be seen.

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Durham, N.C.: Will using flourescent light bulbs save as much electricity as claimed? In cold climates, incadescent light bulbs simply heat the house; and, if the house uses resistance heat, the savings would be zero. Only in hot climates where there is no heating going on at any time during the year would the savings be the same as projected, right?

Steven Mufson: Good question. The vast majority of American live in places where they use more air conditioning than heating.

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Lemont, Ill.: Hello Steven,

To your knowledge, has Congress ever considered a flexible federal gas tax? The gas tax has not been changed since 1993.

If and when Congress considers changing the gas tax, it seems to me that a flexible gas tax would give the feds the means to moderate the swings in gas prices without causing much consumer pain at the pump.

What do you think?

Steven Mufson: Economists have talked about this type of gasoline tax, but as far as I know Congress hasn't. It would be appealing because the tax could increase as oil prices declined, thus making it less likely folks would rush out and buy gas guzzling cars. And when oil prices soared the tax could decline to ease the financial burden. It would create some revenue uncertainty for the federal government.

I would not expect to see this ever enacted.

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Morgantown, W.V.: Dear Mr. Mufson:

Thanks for this opportunity to comment.

What would be the effect of an all out campaign by President Bush and Governors to more quickly adopt some of the energy efficiency standards included in the 2007 Energy Bill?

In my opinion, a 2 to 3 percent reduction in electrical energy use would send a signal to electrical generation and transmission companies that further expansion is no longer needed. I also believe that a 2 to 3 percent reduction is easily achievable within one year if executive and legislative leaders would spend more time in explaining that we must use our fossil energy in a more sustainable manner.

John

Steven Mufson: I also believe that faster progress can be made, and it might happen even without changes in the schedule in this bill. In a lot of ways, individuals and companies are moving faster than the government, though in other ways (as with automobiles) they still need a nudge.

One word of caution: a 2 to 3 percent drop in electricity demand is significant, but we will need to cut much much more to meet greenhouse gas targets people are talking about. And as the economy expands and population expands, electricity use could find itself on an upward path again if we don't keep finding new ways to use energy more efficiently.

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North Idaho: Each fluorencent bulb contains small amounts of mercury. With everyone in the country required to use them there will be quite alot of mercury in those bulbs collectively. How will these bulbs be disposed of so that the mercury doesn't get into the environment?

Steven Mufson: Right now there are government recycling programs. See: http://www.epa.gov/bulbrecycling/

Also, Osram Sylvania is giving away recycling packs that you can fill with bulbs and drop off at any post office or FedEx.

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Washington, D.C.: How soon will new standards come to appliances like washers and dryers? Will the prices be significantly different from the energy efficient models now available? I will be looking to replace older models soon, and was wondering if it was worth holding out a bit longer.

Steven Mufson: The new standards take effect for clothes washers in 2011 and dishwashers in 2010. But you can buy efficient machines now if you want to. The prices don't have to be that different. I don't think that the prices for most of these appliances haven't changed that much over the past decade or so. If your appliance is pretty old, you should get some significant savings.

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Prince Frederick, Md.: This is an important topic because it will affect a number of everyday items in every household in the country, and hats off to the Post for your efforts to get the word out. One big area that most of the media have not picked up on (and the Post's Sunday article touched on briefly) is the downside of the much-touted compact fluorescent bulbs, namely that people need to be aware how to properly dispose/recycle them. Your article mentioned that one brand plans to make available some mail-back packaging for old bulbs, but I doubt that communities' (and trash haulers) normal recycling programs are prepared or willing to handle hazmat products, and all customers need to understand the hazmat risk of broken/spent bulbs.

Steven Mufson: Here's a good Web site with some FAQs on the bulbs, including disposal.

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Reston, Va.: Steve, I have already change my house over to compact florescent bulbs over two years ago. Will this energy plan offer any incentives to upgrade appliances or heaters and air conditioners (newer appliances and heating systems are more energy efficient)?

Steven Mufson: The energy bill doesn't offer any incentives to upgrade appliances, though some states still do. That might change if Democrats succeed in getting rules changed in a future tax bill.

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Pulaski, Va.: As a follow-up to the North Idaho question about disposal of CFL bulbs, what is the safest way to clean them up if they should break?

Steven Mufson: See the Web site I just posted.

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Alexandria, Va.: Your article on Sunday talked about if every household in American had one cfl it would save xxx. Why doesn't the administration hand out a coupon to receive a free cfl bulb or send one in the mail to every household to install? I have installed over 80 percent cfl in my home and it is making a difference in the usage. One cfl we have had since 2001.

Steven Mufson: This would actually make a lot of economic and environmental sense. In fact, some utilities and local governments have done this on a limited basis.

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Rockville, Md.: Why can't the government just allow market forces to push towards energy conservation? Higher prices and utility bills will eventually push consumers to be more energy efficient at a pace that is gentle and optional. Instead we are being given a hard deadline and essentially a "tax" which forces ALL Americans to be energy efficient regardless of our disposition. BTW, how is the government going to keep consumers from hording incandescent bulbs for future use without compromising privacy laws?

Steven Mufson: There is nothing the government can do to prevent the hording of incandescent bulbs, but the market is already moving away from those bulbs so I don't think that will be a huge problem, though you'll definitely see some of it.

As for price signals, as someone who majored in economics, I do think they're very important. That's why the market is already quickly moving to compact fluorescent bulbs even though there's no legal requirement in effect yet. But often people don't make the link between spending more for a bulb now and the rapid payback of that investment. So a legal push isn't unreasonable and you could argue that the seven to 14 year time frame is gradual enough if you believe that climate change is an urgent issue.

It's not exactly a tax in this case, though. It's more like forced investment. Higher utility rates are more like taxes.

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Falls Church, Va.: The forced switch to CFLs will never happen. Whatever the technical pros and cons, consumers strongly prefer incandescents, or else it wouldn't be necessary to outlaw them. Right now, most people aren't aware of the law, but as public awareness grows that the law as written will force people to switch to CFLs, pressure inexorably will grow to relax the law.

Steven Mufson: That's certainly possible, but there may also be some more bulb innovation that might ease that pressure.

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Amsterdam, Netherlands: Is it not protectionism that brought us the greenhousegasses? Cheap energy-saving lightbulbs are produced in China for at least 10 years, but we could not buy them because of internal market protectionmesures taken by our governments pushed by national corporates. I think everyone can come up with examples like mine.

Steven Mufson: I don't believe that there is any protectionist obstacle to importing bulbs from China. A large portion of all kinds of light bulbs currently comes from China.

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Chicago, Ill.: Everyone is talking about the sub-prime lending mess, yet I don't have a sub-prime mortgage and I am scrambling to get by. I am being squuezed because of the high price of fuel. I pay more for gas and food because food supply is being used to manufacture fuel. If congress wants to put cash into the market, they need to solve the energy crisis. Wouldn't a strategy significantly lowering the price of fuel utilizing an environmentally green alternative energy source such as coal to fuel whereby the carbon is sequestered make more long-term sense than a 1 time rebate? Would we be looking at a recession if the price of fuel was $1.00 a gallon. If American households spent less on food and fuel wouldn't the economy and the dollar be healthy?

Steven Mufson: The federal government has been promoting the use of environmentally green alternative energy through tax breaks to solar and wind energy. Coal to fuel is not an environmentally green energy source. It uses a lot of energy and there are a lot of water issues.

But yes, part of the reason for the economic slowdown now is that high oil/fuel prices are a burden on American households.

See this piece I wrote recently for more on that:

"Stimulus Unlikely to Counter Rise in Oil Prices"

Friday, January 11, 2008; Page D01

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Dayton, Ohio: A few years ago, there was a push to get people to start using fluorescent bulbs instead of incandescent bulbs. It was found that the fluorescents used much less energy than incandescents if kept on continuously. However, the energy required to "start-up" fluorescents was much, much greater (so much so that it negated whatever energy savings provided when the lights were on). Has this energy "start-up" problem been resolved with compact fluorescent lamps? (The logical side of me says "hopefully." The conspiracy theory side of me says "probably not" but, that we're being pushed down that path anyway.)

Steven Mufson: A typical compact fluorescent bulb takes about 3 minutes to warm up. But Osram Sylvania says that it has changed the electrodes and gas so that its new MicroMini bulb comes on instantly and reaches full light faster. I haven't tried it. So far I still use incandescent bulbs in some areas where I might be just turning bulbs on for short periods of time. I still use them in a lot of other areas too. But so far I've installed compact fluorescent bulbs in most of the fixtures where the lights stay on for long periods of time.

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Rochester, Minn.: Where can I find a copy of the Energy Bill that was recently passed?

Steven Mufson: The Senate Energy and Commerce Committee has the text of the bill on its Web site. You can find it on the top right of its home page or here.

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Wash DC: This is more of a comment than a question. Several times you've mentioned that dimmable bulbs are available. The real answer is "not really." Currently available dimmable CFL's are a very poor substitute for incandescent lamps. The dimming range is limited, and you must replace ALL lamps on a dimming circuit with dimmable CFLs. The real answer is LED lighting. These are not yet universally available, but will be hopefully within a year or so. These are dimmable, have a wider spectrum than even incandescent bulbs, and are more energy efficient than CFLs. They also use no hazardous substances (like the mercury in CFLs). Eventually they will likely replace CFLs, hopefully quickly. Basically, they're better in every way than both incandescent and CFL.

Steven Mufson: Light emitting diodes (LEDs) have a lot of advantages over compact fluorescent bulbs. At the moment, they're still very expensive, though they aren't hot like halogens and dont' have mercury like CFLs and they last even longer than compact fluorescents. The prices are coming down quickly and they will probably start making big inroads into the bulb market in a few years.

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Washington, D.C.: FYI, not expecting this to get online, no worries, but. . . this heat from incandescent bulbs tangent is just that, I don't think incandescent bulbs give off enough heat in the winter to make a difference with heating usage overall, (though said bulbs do seem to make a difference in the summer, and I did notice this whilst in a hotel in North Carolina last summer. The lights over the sink were a-bakin').

Steven Mufson: Thanks for this comment. I thought one of the earlier contributors would be interested in it.

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Montgomery, Ala.: Follow-up on the Power Grid Security: Are there tax or other credits for the purchase of home generators?

Steven Mufson: Not that I know of and i'm not sure that it would be good policy either.

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Washington, D.C.: What legislation do you expect will be taken up this year that will could effect both the consumer (short-longer term) and energy companies (short-longer term)? Do you see any business tax issues included in the Stimulus Package?

Steven Mufson: I think that the most important "energy" legislation this year will be climate change legislation. This could affect all energy companies and consumers, but it remains unclear whether all the different interest groups and constituencies can bring a bill to passage in Congress. And then it isn't clear whether President Bush would sign it.

I think the energy aspects of a stimulus bill might do some of the things that were in the deleted tax portion of last year's energy bill -- extending tax incentives for solar and wind beyond the end of 2008, which is the current expiration date.

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Germantown, Md.: Are there any compact fluorescent bulbs planned that will work with recessed ceiling fixtures? These generally take some sort of spot lights. Will halogen spots still be available even if normal incandescent spots aren't?

Steven Mufson: Yes and yes, assuming that halogen spots meet the standard. I believe they will at least meet the intermediate standard.

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Reston, Va.: Steve, Were the tax credits for solar energy eliminated with the new energy plan? If that is true it is one of the dumbest things that our government has done with the energy law.

Steven Mufson: If you're talking about solar energy plants that utilities build or big commercial firms install, they weren't eliminated but they weren't extended either. Solar and wind firms want that to happen soon so that they can make future investment plans and Congress will probably attempt to get those extensions written into some other bill, perhaps the stimulus bill.

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Bethesda, Md.: Steven, Your article raises some interesting questions. Notably, on the usage side. What about on the generation side of the equation? Wouldn't increased generation locally (small windmills already available - Jay Leno has a few, solar panels, geothermal) do much more to offset these problems? If you can generate as much power as you want independently, why should the government care how much power you use? Did that come up in the legislation at all?

Personally I would love to put a small windmill on my house. Unfortunately zoning won't allow it. A company called PacWind makes a compact turbine that turns with barely any breeze. Instead, I'm stuck with ever rising rates from Pepco.

Steven Mufson: Solar and small wind can supplement home energy use, but it will only supplement home energy use as long as you do nothing to alter consumption. Cutting consumption is a faster and cheaper way to reduce use of electricity from the grid and to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. (Of course, you could do both.)

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Steven Mufson: That's all we have time for today. Thanks very much for all your questions. Sorry I couldn't get to all of them. I hope you found this useful and thanks for reading the Washington Post.

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