Nonprofits in Trouble

Struggling to Recruit and Retain Talented Employees

Organizations in the Washington region and across the country are struggling to recruit and retain talented employees, according to a major new study ("Ready to Lead? Next Generation Leaders Speak Out"). Local leaders say this could have a dramatic effect on groups providing critical social services such as shelters, food banks and after-school activities.

Albert Ruesga, one of the study's co-authors, a vice president at the Eugene and Agnes E. Meyer Foundation and co-author of "Ready to Lead?," and Paul C. Light, a nonprofits expert and professor at New York University's Wagner School of Public Service, were online Monday, March 3, at 1 p.m. ET to discuss the crisis in leadership faced by the nonprofit sector.

A transcript follows.

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Paul C. Light: Paul Light here from the Wagner School at NYU. Glad to participate.

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Albert Ruesga: Albert Ruesga here today ready to answer your questions about our new Ready to Lead report.

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Washington DC: How is your report different from Diana Aviv's Panel on the Nonprofit Sector and she is the President and CEO, Independent Sector?

Albert Ruesga: The Meyer Foundation is sponsoring a study of outsourcing for nonprofits. We don't know how effective outsourcing can be-especially for smaller charities-but I suspect it wouldn't have that much of an impact on the current and growing need for nonprofit talent.

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Washington, D.C.: I'm not surprised that non-profits are in trouble. A case in point -- before the holidays I applied for a senior position in a national non-profit, a position for which I was very well qualified. I followed up to make sure they had received my application and was told that they had and would get in touch with me after the holidays. They never contacted me. Even if they thought I was a bad fit, this lack of common decency left a very bad taste in my mouth and make me reassess my desire to serve in the nonprofit sector. I think non-profits need to think more like businesses. My for-profit company would never have treated an applicant for a senior position that way.

Albert Ruesga: I've had similar experiences applying for jobs at for-profit companies and in government. We can all stand to improve the way we do business.

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Washington, D.C. Enviro: As someone who has been relatively successful in the non-profit environmental community in D.C., this report really speaks to the experience of myself and my peers at other organizations. Although we passionately care about the causes we work for, we universally feel that our organizations are not as passionate about us as employees: there is no leadership track, no mentoring, and the training budget is either non-existent or the first budget item to be cut. Here's what current organization heads should find most worrying: when we talk about our futures and what excites us as prospective employment, it is never working for the non-profits directly. Many think the private sector now is more innovative, and others feel they can earn a better salary and effect more change by working as consultants. This notion is hard to dismiss when we constantly see outside consultants brought in at rates that greatly exceed our own salaries and whose advice is considered more valuable than that of the existing staff.

So here's my question for the authors: What has the reaction been from the heads of non-profits? Do they acknowledge the problem and do you feel they have the internal commitment to address it?

Paul C. Light: The nonprofit sector as a whole just doesn't get it. There is no national movement that I know of that has taken these issues on. But they're critically important. We take our employees for granted, alas. But my surveys show it is the most highly motivated workforce in the country--more motivated by the chance to make a difference that federal employees or business employees. It's a first rate organizations that is often given the support in second and third rate settings.

Albert Ruesga: Very few nonprofits leaders have seen the report, so it's still too early to tell. Early indications are that we "nailed it"-that our findings very much accord with the lived experience of people who work at charities.

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Washington, D.C.: I have worked in the non-profit sector for the last 15 years. In all of the organizations for which I have worked I find that there is a common element: a lack of visionary leadership. While many of the EDs I have know are great people, strongly committed to to a mission or cause, they were very content to muddle along with the same business model they'd been using for the last 30 years. The budget is always tight, they go after the same small pots of money, everything is a crisis because you never know when the funds will run out, and staff is worked to death with little reward other then the "feel good" factor. These organizations bleed young talent, because they don't seem to understand that feeling good about the organizations mission is only one part of the job satisfaction equation. What in your opinion can be done to address this? What can non-profit staff do to convince leadership that non-profit does not have to mean having a small bottom line and no plan for growth or even existence beyond five years?

Albert Ruesga: We produced this survey and report in part to address the issues you raise.

You're right about bleeding good talent: Meaningful, life-changing work can make up for a lot of deficiencies. We argue that it shouldn't have to.

I think we need to be merciful about our current crop of leaders: Working in an environment of constant scarcity can cloud anybody's judgment. Some of us who work in the charitable sector have helped perpetuate the myth that it's possible to use 100% of our charitable dollars to buy food for the hungry or buy shelter for the homeless. This is impossible. Just like there's no free lunch, there's no charity without charitable overhead. It takes real people who need and deserve real salaries to fill those bowls with food and make those shelters run well.

We also need to acknowledge that there are many talented nonprofit leaders who don't at all fit the profile you describe.

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Chicago, Ill.: Thanks for offering the discussion today. Having worked in public, private and nonprofit sectors, I found the study interesting and that it hit home with many of my experiences.

My question is whether and/or how you accounted for the wide range of "non-profits" in your sample. I noted that the 6,000 or so respondents were constituents of CompassPoint or members of Idealist.org, but that doesn't tell me if they are direct providers of social services, cultural institutions, foundations, or universities -- all of which are part of the nonprofit sector.

The size, resources, demands and missions vary so much within the nonprofit sector, I wonder whether you see your findings truly applicable to the entire sector, or more particularly to smaller, service-delivery organizations.

Albert Ruesga: We collected some of the data you describe -- e.g., type and size of nonprofit), but for our main findings, we did not (with few exceptions) -- find significant variation across those categories.

With a sample size of close to 6,000 individuals located across the country, and six focus groups in three cities, we have a great deal of confidence in our results.

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How much is generational?: I'm all for wanting a career track, but do you think the Gen Y desire for instant gratification may be leading them to job-hop?

Albert Ruesga: It's not just Gen Y-ers who job hop. Shorter tenures appear to be a trend for all age groups.

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Washington, D.C.: Does the study address a comparison of salaries between government jobs and the nonprofit sector?

Paul C. Light: Nonprofit jobs are starting to catch up in salary with for-profits, especially if you happen to work at one of the very large nonprofits. But part of the reason things are evening up is that federal salaries have been capped for some time. Better question is how nonprofit salaries have kept up with private.

On the negative tone of some of this work, we're all struggling with how to get the message out there. Sometimes, you just have to call it like you see it. Great workforce, highly motivated, wants to make a difference, but training, technology, staffing are trailing the commitment and turnover appears to be increasing. I'm not 100 percent sure just how many new employees we'll need, but the Bridgespan study is worrisome about the demand.

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Chantilly, Va.: What are organizations doing to train and develop younger staff members for future leadership positions?

Paul C. Light: I wish I could say there's a lot going on here. I find very few exemplars who do succession planning, for example. We baby boomers think we'll live forever--give us the Grammy for album of the year and we just keep patting ourselves on the back for living so long. I'd like to see more funding developed to staff training and development, but who's willing to pay for it. Donors want every last dollar to go to program. They don't seem to understand the link between developing leadership and productivity--we can stretch those dollars so much further if we just invest in capacity. Enough with the sermon. Sorry.

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Washington, D.C.: There are companies like Orr Associates, Inc. (OAI) that can be the total outsourced department for a nonprofit -- whether in development or management. Do you see this becoming a trend for nonprofits, as it has been with the associations?

Is it effective? Is it cost efficient?"

Paul C. Light: There's going to be more outsourcing for sure--I see more of it in "back office" operations such as accounting, personnel, and fundraising. Marketing, too. The question is whether there is enough capacity out there to actually do substantial outsourcing at reasonable cost. This ain't exactly the richest sector in the world--we need a cadre of nonprofit firms that will provide this kind of help at a nonprofit cost, which is why so many of the big firms don't do it. Bridgespan is terrific, as is Monitor, and a lot of advertising firms are getting involved, too, but we've got a long way to go in building the capacity to build capacity.

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Washington, D.C.: The article took a very negative tone about working in the non-profits. Almost as if non-profits were trying to short change it's staff or undercut their value.

Does the study have tangible recommendations as to what it sees as "fair salaries" and where non-profits are supposed to get the funding to have salaries given their limited resources?

Albert Ruesga: Those of who worked on the survey and report have an enormous commitment to the work of the nonprofit sector and the people who do that work. We tried to present the survey results as accurately as possible.

We all share the responsibility for making life better for those who work at charitable organizations. We're generous as donors, for example, but we do sometimes try to shortchange our charities by refusing to support nonprofit "overhead." We forget it takes real dollars not only to keep the lights on, but to attract and keep talented nonprofit leaders.

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Arlington, Va.: As a mid-level non-profit employee, I'm particularly angered that senior managers are paid extremely high salaries because they have to be "competitive" with opportunities outside of the non-profit sector. But those of us lower on the pay scale are expected to accept lower salaries because of the "satisfaction" our work provides.

This double standard is really infuriating. Not only is [it]about money. It also promotes this view that the senior leadership is so unique that they have to compete with the private sector, but the rest of us are taken for granted.

In fact, I could argue how the opposite should be true. You should really REQUIRE senior leadership deeply committed to the organization, taking those positions because they care, not because of a paycheck. Seems reasonable to offer these folks $200,000 instead of $500,000 and give the rest of us another 10%.

But of course it's those at the high end who make the decisions for the rest of us. Those who have no trouble affording the high cost of living in DC. How do you suggest lower level employees raise these issues with senior management?

Paul C. Light: The distance between the top and bottom of the very big nonprofits does seem to be growing. But we so very little about it. I'm hoping this kind of attention and studies like this one by Meyer help move us ahead. It's one sign of just how little we worry about the nonprofit sector that our national organizations don't seem to be paying attention to all this, although Independent Sector and others deserve credit for slipping loan forgiveness for 501(3) employees into the student loan reforms last year. IS and other organizations ought to make this a priority as congressional interest in further regulation cools. The IRS might think about it, too, instead of focusing on whether the United Church of Christ engaged in political activity by inviting Obama to speak last summer--don't they have better things to do?

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Washington, D.C.: Several friends of mine quit the non-profit world in the last few years. They universally claimed the problem was generational-- baby boomers held on to director slots for a long as 25 years in some cases. These older folks refused to modernize their operations -- addressing only the shallowest Internet functions and shut out new ideas. So my friends either started their own, much smaller groups, or left non-profits altogether. Without the ability to move up in their chosen field, they refused to stay a fourth or fifth year at an organization. While the baby boomer issue is HUGE in Washington, DC, is this a problem nationally?

Paul C. Light: The baby boomers are thinking about later and later retirement, and Social Security is part of the reason. We raised the retirement age in the last round of reforms back in 1983 so we'll be up to 67 in a few years. But baby boomers are also saying they want to work longer, which creates this compression you're writing about. Not much room inside nonprofits for advancement, especially in small, social service organizations. That's a big problem for young people, as you write. Providing more training opportunities might help, but we all have to get used to the fact that young people will come and go through our organizations more than previous generations. Federal government hasn't figured it out either.

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Washington, D.C.: Why do you think there's been so little action taken to address the issues highlighted in this report? -- i.e. low salaries, lack of mentorship and professional development. This is probably the 200th report that's come out about these pressures on attracting nonprofit talent. How come nobody's DOING anything about it?

Albert Ruesga: I understand your frustration, although I suspect more has been done than either of us realizes. The Meyer Foundation has championed nonprofit staff members for years. Over time, more and more funders have come to understand the wisdom of providing general operating support to nonprofit organizations to help them invest in themselves and their staffs. I do see change happening, but I agree it's slow in coming.

It's worth noting that this report focused specifically on the plight of the next generation of nonprofit leadership. That's one area about which we know very little.

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Arlington, Va.: I would love to work for a non-profit, but I can't afford a more than 50 percent cut (or more) to my salary. I've lost track of the number of job listings with requirements far above my skill set (Web site development) starting around 30 or 40K. Not surprisingly, these listings are often listed for many months. EDs often make six figures. I can't live on "excellent benefits" in this area. So I'm stuck with for profit work, for better or worse.

Paul C. Light: This is a real "tragedy of the commons" problem. Foundations and donors are loathe to see their money go to things like loan forgiveness and recruitment bonuses, but that's what we're going to have to do. It's what the federal government has been working on, albeit sporadically. You know you're in trouble as a sector when the federal government is moving faster on an issue like this than you are. We need some kind of national summit with foundations, governments (state and local, too), advocates (Idealist.org, etc.), the United Way, etc., to talk about a pool of funding to help nonprofits create recruiting programs and salary augmentations that will address this problem. As of now, I don't see anyone lining up to host it, I'm afraid. But it's the only way to address the tragedy of the commons--individual nonprofits just can't do this by themselves.

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Washington, D.C.: Do you find any irony in the juxtaposition of this article, on page 1 of Metro, to the article on page 2 about the struggles that academics have in deciding what information, attitudes, skills that undergraduates need to be successful in the marketplace and in building community? What benefits might accrue from the two sectors working together to cultivate the next generation of leaders?

washingtonpost.com: Balancing Academic Tradition and Skills Employers Demand ( Post, March 3)

Albert Ruesga: Higher education can have an important role in helping to fill the pipeline with talented young leaders. Training is one piece of it; making the nonprofit sector a more visible career choice is another. One of our partners, Idealist.org, has a number of initiatives designed to help introduce nonprofit work to more career counselors at college and universities.

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Washington, D.C.: What do think is the role of a nonprofit's governing board in addressing this issue? What questions should board members be asking?

Paul C. Light: Nice if board members measured the difference between their salaries and those of the nonprofit. We don't want nonprofits to become wildly out of touch with the people they serve, but we do want them to compete with the other sectors involved in the talent war.

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Washington, D.C.: I hope your study addresses the salary disparity between for profit and not. No one gives you a break when you are trying to get a mortgage or buying food because you do socially useful work. I don't know how anyone coming out of college with the kind of backbreaking loans young people carry today can even think about working for a non profit. Unless they are rich in which case they haven't a clue about the real world. Then they go to work for foundations like yours and advise NPOs on how to run their programs from a knowledge/experience base of -- nothing. Thus institutionalizing foundation arrogance for another generation. Why yes, I do work for a non profit.

Albert Ruesga: People who work at nonprofits know that "virtue is its own reward." They also know they can't feed their families or save for their retirements on virtue alone.

I once worked with a donor who wanted to support drug counseling programs but who insisted that his donations not be used for salaries and other "overhead." Well you can't support drug counseling without drug counselors. And you certainly can't do it without the talented nonprofit managers who keep it all together.

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Washington, D.C.: Hi, Albert --- delighted to see the Meyer Foundation in the lead, as always! Can you comment on possible contributions that higher education can make to developing leadership for nonprofits, e.g., nonprofit management programs, advanced degrees, specialized in-service training for staffs, etc.? Thanks!

Albert Ruesga: Thanks for your kind words. I addressed a similar question earlier on, but I'll repeat my answer here: Higher education can and should have an important role in helping to fill the pipeline with talented young leaders.

Training is one piece of it; making the nonprofit sector a more visible career choice is another. One of our partners, Idealist.org, has a number of initiatives designed to help introduce nonprofit work to more career counselors at college and universities.

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Indianapolis, Ind.: Within the last 20 years, academic programs have emerged around with foci on nonprofit management, fund development, philanthropic studies, etc. What is happening with the graduate of these programs? Wouldn't an increase in the availability of professional training indicate an increase in trained professionals? Has the professionalization of the nonprofit sector not prepared it for its future?

Paul C. Light: One of the problems with the increasing number of programs is the increasing amount of debt. I read a very impressive study from Berkeley, I think, a very years ago that showed that students with high levels of debt were actually more likely to "go nonprofit" than those with lower amounts of debt. So our graduates appear will to accept a discount. But my surveys also suggest that these debt-laden employees won't stay for long--five years, possibly. We need to get used to this new public service--it moves across the sector borders in search of pay and meaningful work. Most college seniors still see the np sector as the most attractive destination for meaningful work, but we may have to get used to the turnover and figure out ways to attract employees from business and government at the middle levels that are no longer full of leaders-in-waiting.

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Montgomery County, Md.: Many of the environmental nonprofits that I've worked for and with, are mostly dependent upon grant funding, with some income from members' dues. Often, the dues are quite low --$35/year is typical. It strikes me that we could learn a great deal from the successful churches and temples that have grown in the past twenty years -- they demand rather high investments from their members in terms of both volunteer time, and in terms of annual financial commitments. Couldn't this approach help other, non-religious non-profits to grow and diversify their income base?

Paul C. Light: Amen!

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Bethesda, Md.: Does the study compare leadership effectiveness between baby boomer nonprofit leaders vs. younger leaders? As an organization development consultant I've worked with a startling number of "spoiled" and stuck-in-old-ways baby boomer leaders who fit some of the descriptions already offered in this discussion.

Albert Ruesga: Yes, the report looks at a number of cohorts, one of them being respondents who are 50 and over, another being respondents who are 25 years-of-age and under. The differences are eye-opening.

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Washington, D.C.: What do you suggest for implementing the need for expert training in an organization in which the top leadership does not routinely go to trainings themselves. I am frustrated by the battle with supervisors of being approved for ongoing professional training in my field.

Albert Ruesga: We hoped that this report would provide the basis for many conversations that younger staff members could have with their executive directors. Making the case for expert training should never have to be a battle.

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Washington, D.C.: One solution is to fund fellowships for emerging leaders of diverse backgrounds. The New Voices National Fellowship program, funded by the Ford Foundation and administered by the Academy for Educational Development has taken such an approach, with over 130 Fellows funded in nonprofits throughout the United States. The program published a report on mentoring that identifies 12 best practices in preparing and empowering emerging leaders.

See: New Voices The tools in this report can be used to structure mentoring relationships. Some of us in the nonprofit sector have been working hard to regenerate and diversify leadership. Do you see fellowships such as ours as one strategy for meeting the challenge of empowering next generation? Does your study address diversity issues? Thanks for publishing this study!

Albert Ruesga: Our study found some interesting differences in responses to the survey between people of color and the survey population as a whole. We agree that there needs to be a stronger pipeline of young leaders of color willing to fill nonprofit positions.

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Anonymous: It's only been in recent years that the nonprofit sector has been addressed as such -- and mostly by academics who have decided there is grant money in counting organizations -- and obviously there is. Most of those people who are retiring or burning out after a long stint probably didn't think they were going to work for a nonprofit -- they went to work to address homelessness, to work with disadvantaged youth, to work in the theatre or music, or in my case, history museums. It was only after I got into it that I began to have to grapple with the ramifications of working for a nonprofit.

Paul C. Light: Interesting point. I've started referring to nonprofits as social-benefit organizations. Bill Drayton at Ashoka has made somewhat of a cause about this and rightly so. What exactly does it mean to be nonprofit? Is there something called "nonprofit-like?" It's not exactly an aspiration term, is it? To be not like something.

Most, if not all, nonprofit people are drawn to the sector by the mission. And many don't consider themselves part of "a sector" at all. The only problem with this view is that the IRS, Congress, and state attorneys general view it as a sector when they start writing legislation. We need to understand that sectors get reputations that matter--the social-benefit sector currently has a reputation for a big heart but a poor head for spending money wisely. When I talk about it with board members and executive directors, they almost always say "well, that national data doesn't affect me." Only problem is that it affects regulators and the IRS. We have some reputation building to do in the sector, which means talking with donors about what we are going to do to spend their money wisely, and how capacity building makes a difference in doing so. Only problem again is that donors won't give us the money to build capacity until we have the capacity to spend the money wisely, which demands the money to build capacity. It's a classic Catch 22.

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Gaithersburg, Md.: I'm a new attorney who graduated from a Western State school. I've sent out 200 resumes since August to non-profits, government (federal, state and local), trade associations, law firms...everywhere and anywhere I can find job listings.

Yet more often that not, I never hear from the nonprofits, whether an e-mail saying they received and are reviewing my materials, or even a rejection letter.

My legal education comes after five years on the Hill, working on numerous boards of PAC's, nonprofits, and associations, but I can't even get a foot in the door with non-profits in terms of legal or executive positions. Is it a lack of resources to review and interview? I know I'm not the only new attorney having difficulty finding employment in the public/public service sector.

Albert Ruesga: The Meyer Foundation has worked with small and medium nonprofits in the Greater Washington area for more than sixty years. We know that the resources of these organizations are often stretched to the limit; they're often operating with just a handful of staff members and can't always respond to job inquiries in a timely manner. At the same time, many foundations and individual donors ask them to do more and more with less and less. My advice to you is to keep trying! You'll find, as many of our survey respondents told us, that working in the charitable sector can be extremely rewarding.

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Washington, D.C.: Does your data show anything differences among the types of organizations studied? For example is this trend true in the arts?

Albert Ruesga: We collected data about types and sizes of organizations. We didn't find any significant differences across these categories.

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Thanks for your report and chat: Haven't read the report yet, but will today! In my experiences with nonprofits on the West Coast I saw in almost every situation that very often the nonprofit is started by one person or a small group with a passion and vision, it's a hardscrabble fight to begin, there's finally some maintenance, maybe a little growth, often too much growth that the founders are not prepared for and don't know how to grow their infrastructure to accommodate, power struggles ensue, lack of skills/leadership/knowledge, then a contraction back to the maintenance level; there's very little room for more than one 'leader' -- especially an outsider or new leader with a different style -- and there's little or no succession planning when the founder leaves.

Is this phenomenon included in your findings?

Albert Ruesga: We didn't ask specifically about survey respondents who work at organizations led by founding executive directors. What we did find is that there's a real dearth of mentorship across all types of organizations.

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McLean, Va.: Given the serious challenges in staff development for the non-profit world, are there an exemplars who are leading the way in staff development and mentoring? Where does one look for best practices?

Albert Ruesga: There are many great local examples. Rebecca Wagner, Executive Director of Interfaith Works (formerly Community Ministry of Montgomery County, Maryland) is a perfect example of someone who understands the importance of mentoring -- and who works regularly with other executive directors to provide best practices, etc.

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Atlanta, Ga.: What is the job outlook for students currently enrolled in Masters of Nonprofit Management degree programs? Is there any trend to increasing the enrollment in such programs? Is there any hope for competitive salaries?

Paul C. Light: I think the prospects are good. We're creating new nonprofits at a remarkable rate, and the baby boomers WILL retire.

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Philadelphia, Pa.: I'm not sure what you mean that we need to pool resources for a recruitment drive. The questioner said that those low paying/high skill jobs stay on the market for months. But as an entry level-ish nonprofit job seeker, it certainly feels like the opposite. So many people clamoring to make 25-30K and "make a difference." Since there are people willing to make sacrifices in order to be able to work at those low rates and make a difference, companies continue to offer them. How can we stop this cycle?

Been hearing about the baby boomer drain with the federal government for years, but certainly don't know any friends getting called for interviews for non-specialized, math/science positions. Maybe we GenYers would stay put if we could find a fulfilling job at a fair salary.

Paul C. Light: I think this is for me. What I mean is that we need some kind of joint effort to solve this problem--it may require a loan forgiveness fund, a national campaign by the United Way to set minimum pay standards or provide recruitment bonuses, or whatever. But individual nonprofits cannot do this alone. We need to think of this as a collective good that involves everyone, funders included, working together to assure that nonprofits have the resources to do their jobs well.

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Exurbia -- 65 miles west and south of D.C.: Have there been any efforts by nonprofits to recruit and rapidly promote re-entry workers with high levels of education (MDs, PhDs, JDs)and earlier work experience? If so, would you describe the outcomes?

Paul C. Light: I'd love to hear about any programs like this. I ask about them everywhere I go and occasionally hear about tuition support and signing bonuses--and I'm not talking about nurses and allied health professionals here, where the health sector has done much better. But it's rare to see these kind of programs. I've talked to 2,500 nonprofit executives, more or less over the past three years, and can count the number of such programs on one hand.

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Washington, D.C.: While I agree that the sector needs to attract and nurture young leaders, and that top managers are sometimes over-comfortable and over-paid in relation to their staff, I'd like to raise a different point.

As a non-baby boomer who has worked in nonprofits for several years I've been frustrated by the expectation of some Gen-X and Y'ers that their enthusiasm should be all they need to advance the work of nonprofit organizations. This is sometimes a subtext of leadership programs and the like directed towards younger people. Actually, there's a lot to learn about the sector and each subfield within it -- as in other sectors -- and it takes time to learn how the work needs to be done in order to be effective. I think staff need to be nurtured over the long-term in nonprofits -- not just at the top and bottom of the system, although that's where the focus has been. Does your study look into such matters?

Albert Ruesga: I agree with you, although I'd be quick to add that Gen Xers and Gen Yers are not the arrogant, cocksure people many of us assume them to be. They acknowledge the need for more training and stronger networks before they take on more substantial leadership positions.

Paul C. Light: I agree with Albert. Most of the entry-level workers I talk to want skils, skills, and more skills. They know it's a tough economy out there.

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Washington, DC: I manage a nonprofit and while I don't doubt the utility of training courses and so forth, the fact is that our money goes further when we put it into direct program support.

There are times when that's not the case, and in those carefully selected cases, we do pay for training, etc. But please keep in mind that in some cases, SOME nonprofits (not all) are making carefully calculated business decisions about where their funds will do the most good in the long-term. This is not always short-sighted.

Paul C. Light: I'm assuming therefore that you have high-speed Internet, a strong budgeting and accounting system, that you've got decent office furniture and a safe place to work, and so forth. If you don't, you may be thinking more short-term than long-term.

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Washington, D.C.: As someone who exactly fits the profile of the younger, disenchanted, non-profit staffer, I would love for area non-profits (particularly my own!) to sit and up and pay attention to this report. How can us younger folk work for change -- and impress upon our baby boomer bosses the urgent need for change -- without losing our jobs?

Albert Ruesga: Well,for starters, you can try leaving copies of our report lying around the office! :) Consider joining one of several organizations that provide support and encouragement to nonprofit staff members, such as the Nonprofit Roundtable of Greater Washington, the Young Nonprofit Professionals Network (YNPN) and others.

Paul C. Light: Make this a topic at staff meeetings and board conversations. I think a lot of boards and executive directors just don't think this can be a problem for their organizations.

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Bethesda, Md.: How can an organization that has gone "flat" set up opportunities to groom leaders and create a career track, when most middle management positions have been eliminated?

Paul C. Light: Pay attention to skill acquisition and accept the fact that Generation Next or the iGeneration will come and go--we might have them for a while, lose them to government or a for-profit, then get them back for a while, lose them again, etc. It's part of the culture of work today.

Albert Ruesga: Since so many nonprofit organizations are small or medium sized, many career paths will necessarily wend through a number of organizations.

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College Park, Md.: The Google Foundation is not just funding traditional nonprofits, but looking seriously at socially responsible for-profits. Do you think this approach will catch on? While I'm fine sending my donations to a homeless shelter or animal shelter, I would now prefer to spend my money buying products for socially and environmentally aware businesses than funding yet another education or advocacy campaign.

Paul C. Light: I think for-profit activity is only going to increase. It's part of the new philanthropy at a number of foundations. That's why you're seeing so much on social entrepreneurship lately. A number of donors simply believe, often rightly so, that for-profits can do things more efficiently than nonprofits. And I hear a number of social entrepreneurs saying the same thing. Ultimately, it really doesn't matter where the activity occurs if its changing the prevailing wisdom.

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Washington, D.C.: Having worked for 3 big environmental nonprofits, one MAJOR problem I have identified is the following: not enough quality mid-level positions. You have your poorly paid coordinators/assistants, your highly paid Directors, and not much in between. It's hard to retain good people when their just isn't any room for growth within the organization.

Albert Ruesga: Thank you for sharing this. You've hit one of the nails on the thumb. This is what some people in our field call the "middle management problem." So many nonprofits work in an environment of such scarcity, they feel it's a luxury to invest in middle management positions.

Paul C. Light: Big problem.

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Indiananpolis, Ind.: Forgive me if this question is addressed in the full report, I've only had an opportunity to read the brief at this point. How do you hope to integrate your research with other studies? While reading some of these comments and questions a number of other studies continue to come to mind -- studies that researched:

- Pay disparity between men and women in the nonprofit sector

- Volunteerism rates for at-risk youth

- The effects of giving and volunteering parents have on their children

There are a lot of factors at work -- and some good research that helps paint comprehensive picture of a future nonprofit worksource. What's the next step for incorporating this study with others?

Albert Ruesga: We encourage you to look at the recommendations we make in chapter three of the report. There we make suggestions for executive directors, funders, board members, nonprofit trainers, and for next generation leaders themselves. We intend that this report be only one of a longer series of efforts directed at the issue of attracting and retaining talented nonprofit leaders.

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"Excellent benefits": The last two non-profits that I worked for had a very hard time getting health insurance. Due to the relatively small size of the nonprofits, some insurance companies wouldn't even talk to us. I can't afford to work non-profit anymore because of the low salary coupled with the very expensive health insurance.

Albert Ruesga: This is a big issue given that most nonprofits in the United States are rather small.

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Paul C. Light: Thanks for reading our posts. A real pleasure to engage this issue!

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Albert Ruesga: It's been a pleasure chatting with you all today. Be well.

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washingtonpost.com: Ready to Lead?

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