McCain's Foreign Policy

Former Deputy Undersecretary of Defense Jed L. Babbin, now the editor of conservative journal Human Events and humanevents.com, was online Wednesday, March 26 at 2 p.m. ET to examine Sen. John McCain's national security and foreign policy experience and proposals.

Babbin is the author of three books, most recently "In the Words of Our Enemies." He is a military and foreign affairs analyst and appears frequently on the Fox News Channel, CNBC and MSNBC.

A transcript follows.

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Jed L. Babbin: Hello to all. I'm Jed Babbin, editor of HumanEvents and HumanEvents.com, the oldest conservative weekly in the nation. I'm a former deputy undersecretary of defense in Bush 41 and a longtime military and foreign affairs writer. I'm looking forward to answering your questions and commenting on whatever interests you. Let's have at it.

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Washington, D.C.: Mr. Babbin,

What has happened to the Realists in the Republican Party? Are they out of favor permanently? John McCain seems downright hostile to anyone who leans towards the realist line of foreign policy, as does the president.

Jed L. Babbin: Realists are still there. If you mean those who don't want to intervene, and who favor diplomacy over non-peaceful means of dispute resolution, they're there. But the issue is that we're at war. Realism means recognizing the enemy, identifying him properly by ideology, strengths and weaknesses and fighting him in a manner calculated to win decisive victory.

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Washington, D.C.: I have heard this issue debated numerous times and want to get your opinion: Is John McCain a neocon, yes or no? He certainly has surrounded himself with advisers who are. Thank you

Jed L. Babbin: I don't think anyone knows what a neocon is any more. I think McCain has bought into the Bush nation-building strategy, which is how I define neocons. And I disagree vehemently.

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New York, N.Y.: Thanks so much for the chat.

It seems to me that Senator McCain is primarily interested in the morale of his beloved military (not meant sarcastically). It was destroyed after Vietnam and he will want to rebuild it after the lack of success in Iraq. Does that mean he might include General Powell in his government? Your thoughts, please?

Jed L. Babbin: Morale is important, of course. But the most important thing to morale is accomplishing something worthwhile. I remember one young colonel telling me (on my visit to Baghdad in 05) that the only way to break this army is to break your promises to it. That has not been the case, at least so far.

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Philadelphia, Pa.: McCain is touted by the press as being an expert on foreign policy and campaign finance reform. He doesn't know that Iranians are Shiites. He has violated the campaign finance laws that he helped to enact. Can the press still tout his expertise?

Jed L. Babbin: His expertise exists on military and foreign affairs matters regardless of a few gaffes. But you got me on campaign finance laws. I'm still trying to see what happened with the loans. I don't want to judge on what we know now.

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Lyme, Conn.: What do you see as McCain's views on responding to protect communities threatened with genocide? We have seen this issue arise in Rwanda and Sudan and it indeed may arise again. Does he see a need and ability to at least protect threatened communities and guarantee the delivery of food and supplies? Will we be able to respond for at least humanitarian purposes sooner than we have in the past? If so, how would the McCain Administration respond?

Jed L. Babbin: I don't know the answer to that. I don't recall his stating any clear position on intervention in Rwanda or Darfur. I'm sure he would support international action, but I'm hopeful he wouldn't see it as our obligation to intervene everywhere. That's certainly not my view.

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Minneapolis, Minn.: One element of the "war on terror" that has been noticeably absent has been a real plan of attack on non-military fronts -- a concerted effort to win hearts and minds in the Islamic world. I haven't seen anything in any of McCain's rhetoric to indicate that he has any plan in this area, either. Does he in fact have any other elements to his plan other than continuing the military fight in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Jed L. Babbin: No, and that's something that I've been very critical of both him and Pres. Bush about. The heck with hearts and minds. The issue is that this is very much a two-part war. Radical Islam is an ideology, not a religion. We need to be fighting it with words as well as deeds to defeat it just as we did communism and nazism before.

The other issue is that this is much more than Iraq. The center of gravity in this war is not the Iraqi democracy. In fact, what happens there is truly a side-issue.

The question is how we define the end of the war. This war is not over if and when (if ever) Iraq is able to defend, govern and sustain itself and be an ally.

The only definition of victory that makes any sense is that we win when the terrorist sponsoring nations are- one way or the other - forced to stop supporting terrorism.

Add to that the defeat of radical Islam as an ideology and you have the only definition of victory I can agree to. It does NOT depend on what happens in Iraq.

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Prescott, Ariz.: Every time McCain is asked how he would solve some conflict, (e.g. Iraqi Shia and Sunni, or Israeli Jordan conflict of last year) his answer is that he would sit the parties down and tell them to stop the "bulls---".

How come no one else has been smart enough to press the McCain conflict resolution policy? It sounds amazingly simple.

Jed L. Babbin: I love the idea of a tough guy knocking heads together. But it ain't that simple. It presumes we have a level of influence and control that we really don't. Dispute resolution is like "peace process". Peace ain't about processes, it's about winners and losers. Sorry, but that's the unfortunate reality of it.

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Washington, D.C.: John McCain missed a lot of training during his five years in prison. He didn't try to recover that training when he came back in 1973; that's why he didn't get promoted to rear admiral, like his father and grandfather. He hasn't taken the opportunity to learn things that might help him as president; economics, and ethics(Charles Keating). The man is not fit to be president, and his attempts at humor (bomb Iran) show a truly demented personality.

Jed L. Babbin: that's not only unreasonable, it's simply wrong. McCain suffered greatly in the Hanoi Hilton and chose to leave the navy. He may not be our first choice for the presidency, but his experience and knowledge make him fit for the job. Neither Obama nor Clinton have any qualifications whatsoever.

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washingtonpost.com: "Fire the Neocons, Fight the War" (humanevents.com, Aug. 27, 2007)

Jed L. Babbin: this is what I meant by defining the war properly. If we don't, we're unable to win it.

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Philadelphia, Pa.: McCain's "major" foreign policy speech given today seems to have been recycled from an article he wrote for the WSJ back in 2001 titled, "War is a miserable business". I know that politicians often re-use ideas but it is also a sign of a rigid and stubborn nature on the war that McCain's critics will certainly hold over his head during the presidential campaign, no?

Jed L. Babbin: No, I think it's his effort to stay in the limelight. Don't forget, Obama and Hillary are sucking all the media oxygen out of the room. He's putting stakes in the ground, not showing he's stubborn. Fer heaven's sake, give the guy a break. He can't hardly buy a headline while the Dems continue shooting while formed in a circular firing squad.

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Centreville, Va.: Senator McCain stated today: "Our great power does not mean we can do whatever we want whenever we want" and he indicates that he will seek greater collaboration for foreign policy challenges. This sounds a lot like John Kerry's approach in 2004, when he was resoundingly derided by this administration and others on the right for "seeking permission from the French." Can we expect to hear that criticism from the right this time around?

Jed L. Babbin: Certainly. Mr. McCain is more of an internationalist than many conservatives believe he should be. Kerry was unwilling to do anything without getting the blessing of the UN Security Council. The sad part is that President Bush seems of almost the same mind.

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Mt. Lebanon, Pa.: Does McCain offer a foreign policy regimen other than bomb everyone he disagrees with? Or conflate an enemy with a convenient foil? Or "misrepresent the facts" as no one will know, or care?

After all, we've had that policy in place now for the last 7+ years. Look how far it's gotten us.

Bomb first, questions later always reminds me of the kid who took his ball home with him when the game rules weren't to his liking. But then, we were children.

Now we're grownups. Supposedly.

Thanks much. Another Vietnam era Veteran

Jed L. Babbin: I think you must not have heard his speech today. He's not saying that at all. He's offering to reach out in partnership with Europe, wants better relationships with India, Japan, Brazil, Turkey, Israel and a lot of other nations.

You may hate President Bush, but please do not believe McCain is his clone. McCain, like all pols, has his faults. But "bomb first, questions after" ain't one of them.

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Washington, D.C.: Has Senator McCain made any statements in regard to Iraqi refugees? Does he have a plan for them?

Jed L. Babbin: I'm not aware of any. He may be thinking of them in terms of the Vietnamese "boat people", some who fled after we withdrew. I can't speak for McCain but I'd be surprised if he wouldn't welcome them to the US if things get that bad in Iraq.

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Lompoc, Calif.: Perhaps using some of the funds being spent in Iraq could be spent on SS and Medicare. But I realize McCain believes keeping our troops and therefore expenditures in Iraq are much more important than worrying about funds being used for our our own citizens.

Jed L. Babbin: You make a very common mistake. This "guns vs. butter" argument is a false one. You can disagree on the war, who we should or shouldn't be fighting, or that we shouldn't be fighting at all. But unless you believe we are not at war, and not under any threat, we have to defend the nation. Unless we do that first and get it right - first time and every time -- we don't get to spend on anything else because we lose the nation.

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Washington, DC: Do you want to comment on Harold Meyerson's excellent Op-Ed piece in the Washington Post today? A 'foreign policy' expert who can't get his facts on the middle east right, and has to be corrected by the Hawkish Joe Lieberman. I don't want to bring up the idiotic solution McCain touted yesterday on helping the economy, which he admitted isn't his strong suit. I never thought I would see a more incompetent candidate than George W. Bush, but McCain opened my eyes.

washingtonpost.com: "McCain on the Red Phone" (Washington Post, March 26)

Jed L. Babbin: the Meyerson piece was simply awful. First, al-Q is in league with the Iranians. Iran has been aiding al-Q and possibly hiding bin Laden himself for the past two or three years. I was taken aback by McCain's retreat. He may not want to talk about it because he knows secret information he can't disclose.

All you have to do to see incompetence is to look at Obama. And what, pray, has Hillary ever done other than run the totally illegal and failed health care task force?

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Centreville, Va.:"Kerry was unwilling to do anything without getting the blessing of the UN Security Council." I think that is a right wing canard. Do you seriously think that Kerry wouldn't have done whatever is necessary to defend this country if the circumstances warranted?

Jed L. Babbin: I can only take Kerry at his word. He said, over and over again, that UN approval was necessary for military action under international law.

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Washington, DC: Can you give us some idea of who President McCain might bring into his Cabinet/inner circle for foreign affairs advice? Thanks.

Jed L. Babbin: Good question. He does have a lot of people surrounding him who could be neocon advisors. But there's a balance with Ted Olson, former solicitor general, Phil Gramm, former Texas senator, and Jack Kemp, former NY congressman and cabinet secretary. Who his national security team would be I can't say.

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Rolla, Mo.: The elephant in the room no one is talking about in this campaign (except for bad toys) is China. Is there an appreciable difference between McCain, Obama and Clinton in how we deal with China?

Jed L. Babbin: At this point, the only one who's spoken clearly is McCain. In his speech today he said there's no reason for us and China to be enemies, and that the rise of china is the biggest challenge the next president will face. I think that's a good start.

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Philadelphia, Pa.: We were attacked on 9/11 b/c of our presence in Saudi Arabia. You can deny that but OBL has said that is the reason. Does anyone believe that our occupation (you can deny that, too) of Iraq isn't going to see some more blowback? Terrorism has a diplomatic and law-enforcement solution, we as a country have yet to try those seriously and McCain doesn't seem to acknowledge it either.

Jed L. Babbin: Nonsense. We tried that all through the Clinton administration and that's what produced 9-11. I know very well what bin Laden said. It's all in my book, "In the Words of Our Enemies." But you presume the nonsensical result we heard from Ron Paul. Do you believe UBL has the right to order us out of Saudi Arabia? If so, what other interests of the US are you unwilling to pursue?

We are at war. Please read my "Fire the Neocons, Fight the War" linked above. That's all you need to know.

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Birmingham, Ala.: Could you elaborate on your statement "All you have to do to see incompetence is to look at Obama."

Thanks!

Jed L. Babbin: Sen. Obama has zero experience in anything related to running this nation. He's never held an executive position in government or industry, and his record in both the Illinois legislature and the US Senate is so thin as to be transparent.

For incompetence, I'd include his ducking and running from tough votes. Last year, when Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tx) offered a measure to condemn the infamous MoveOn.org "Petraeus/Betray us" ad, Sen. Boxer offered a Dem substitute that watered it down into meaninglessness. Obama voted for the Boxer substitute and - after that failed - absented himself from the Senate and didn't vote on the Cornyn measure at all.

Oh, and he was one of only about 29 who voted against the bipartisan Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act bill last fall. 'Nuff said?

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Philadelphia, Pa.: It is a myth to say the surge is working. Last year McCain "strolled" through a market, aided by heavy air security. This year he was unable to go to the same market b/c it was unsafe. 900 soldiers have died since the surge. Now we have the Sadr cease-fire being reversed. How exactly is the surge working?

Jed L. Babbin: The surge is working because it has achieved something nothing has before. It has divorced the Sunni from al-Qaeda. The fact that the Maliki government is incapable of governing is not to say the surge isn't working.

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Re: Promise breaking: As the wife of a military officer, it is my view that the military during the Bush tenure has repeatedly broken promises to the military families. We know plenty of folks who would like to stay in but will retire because they trust neither the brass nor the administration.

Jed L. Babbin: Ma'am, I hear you loud and clear. Can't argue with what you say. I know a lot of people on active duty and some who retired recently. There's a lot going on that's not good. All we can do is visit the hospitals, support the troops and hope the next president does better. As a wounded vet himself, I'm betting McCain will.

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washingtonpost.com: "Guns, Butter, and the War" (Babbin op-ed, Feb. 29)

Jed L. Babbin: As one of the earlier commenters questioned, the "guns versus butter" issue is alive and well this year. But, as I said in this piece, it's a false argument. We need to defend this nation, and the fact that we've been doing it on the cheap is exacting a high price. We're at about 4% of GDP on military expenditures. And almost half of that is personnel costs.

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Philadelphia, Pa.: Did you agree with Bush's decision to invade Iraq?

Jed L. Babbin: I did. But - and, as Casey Stengel woulda said, you can look it up - I've been highly critical of what the President has been doing since about April 2002. We've made about every mistake possible in Iraq.

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Houston, Tex.:"Neither Obama nor Clinton have any qualifications whatsoever."

Really? "Whatsoever?" As in, zero? Remember how "qualified" the current group (Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc.) was when they took office, and look at where we are. Their "qualifications" got us here, did they not?

Jed L. Babbin: No. Their qualifications didn't get us here: bad decisions did. As in when the president chose to occupy Iraq contrary to the recommendations of the Pentagon.

There were two post-invasion plans presented to the president in January 2003. One - the Rumsfeld Myers plan -called for a hard and fast invasion, setting up a provisional government and exiting in about 60-90 days.

The other plan - authored by Powell and Tenet - provided for a hard, fast invasion and then an occupation to set up a democracy over a period of years. The president chose the neocon plan - the latter, the wrong one - and then stuck Rumsfeld with running it. And then came the coup de grace, Jerry Bremer who did more damage in his first couple of months than anyone else has done since.

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Taneytown MD :"First, al-Q is in league with the Iranians. Iran has been aiding al-Q and possibly hiding bin Laden himself for the past two or three years."

Can you please elaborate? Because the first thing I thought when I saw the incident was just what you suggest - that Sen. McCain inadvertently referred to classified info (because if he didn't, as a McCain backer I was very worried about the incident)

Jed L. Babbin: All I can tell you is what I've learned - unconfirmed - from sources around the world. I've heard, repeatedly, from multiple sources, that UBL and top al-Qaeda leaders have been traveling freely throughout northwestern Pakistan and eastern Iran for years. They get help from locals and from Tehran. Also, the Pakistani ISI - which helped establish the Taliban - have given them sanctuary in Quetta. I don't know why Mr. McCain pulled back so quickly, but he - like the Bush people - may not want pressure to do something about Iran.

Iran, of course, is the central terrorist power. Unless and until they're out of that business, this war isn't over.

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Military wife: My husband volunteered for McCain's 2000 campaign but will not vote for him this year. We will both go with the Democrat. Mr. McCain has forsaken core principles and aligned himself too closely to Bush/Cheney for our taste.

Jed L. Babbin: I understand. But I can't vote for the Dems. They just don't get it. On virtually any topic.

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Jed L. Babbin: Folks, this has been a great pleasure. Many thanks for joining me. I'm hopeful that we'll do it again soon. Let's talk politics, any time and any where. All best, Jed Babbin, editor, Human Events.

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