Government Careers

Applying for Government and Security-Related Jobs

Derrick Dortch is a career counselor who specializes in government job searching and military transition. Currently, he is president of The Diversa Group, a firm that focuses on career counseling and development, entrepreneurship, leadership and organizational consulting, training and development. He also runs The Career Success Group as well as Targeted Resumes.

Find more career-related news and advice in our Jobs section.

The transcript follows.

____________________

Derrick Dortch: Good Morning, good morning! Well looks like the sun is out and brightening up our day. That is a good indicator that we are going to have a good show and that the future is looking bright when it comes to college graduates getting government jobs. As many college seniors and graduate students prepare to graduate this May, June and August there are those who are interested in government jobs. The question many of them have is: How do I go about getting a federal job? Well we are going to answer that question today and much more.

Today I am joined by a special guest. Tim McManus, vice president of Education and Outreach at the Partnership for Public Service (PPS). The mission of the Partnership for Public Service is to revitalize our federal government by inspiring a new generation to serve and by transforming the way government works.

Prior to joining the Partnership he served as director of marketing for the Corporation for National and Community Service, the federal agency that administers Senior Corps, AmeriCorps, and Learn and Serve America. In that capacity, Tim was responsible for the development and implementation of national marketing, recruitment, and outreach strategies designed to engage Americans of all ages and backgrounds in service.

So, if you are a upcoming college graduate or even student and you have questions please ask them and we will do our best to get you the information you need to succeed. If you are not a upcoming college graduate or student but still have questions please ask them as well. So any questions on the federal job search, writing targeted and effective federal resumes and KSAs, getting a security clearance, military transition or any topic related to succeeding in your career, work and life please submit them and we will do our best to answer them.

Well with no further delay lets get started. If there are any announcements I will share them at the end of the show.

Thank you for stopping by ENJOY THE SHOW!!!!!

_______________________

McLean, Va.: Hello Derrick,

I was curious if you had heard anything new about the government hiring process timelines. I applied for a government job in early Dec '07 and now just heard from them (Apr '08) requesting an interview. I had since taken a new job in mid January and regretfully turned down the interview. Does it usually take the government this long to contact potential candidates? I feel most job seekers are looking to land a new job in a shorter span than 4+ months. Thanks.

Tim McManus: In general, government strives to meet a 45 day (business day) timeline, but unfortunately the hiring time is frequently longer than it should be. There are efforts underway, both within individual agencies as well as being led by the Office of Personnel Management, to re-evaluate the entire hiring process. Timing, what needs to be submitted to apply and when, etc. Certainly, there is a growing recognition that the process turns good candidates away.

_______________________

Derrick Dortch: Tim, what are some of the hot government jobs available for college students?

Tim McManus: Here's just a few exciting jobs that are available - How about a Engineer with the Dept of Navy, designing ships and submarines; an aerospace technologist at NASA's Kennedy Space Center; a chemist with the National Institute of Standards and Technology investigating, analyzing, and interpreting the composition, molecular structure; or a physical therapist at the Dept of Veteran's Affairs. Just to name a few

_______________________

Derrick Dortch: What resources does the Partnership for Public Service have to help college students and graduates focus on a career in public service?

Tim McManus: First and foremost, a Web site with tons of resources -- www.makingthedifference.org. On the site you'll find tips for finding and applying for jobs as well as information on federal jobs by major or area of study.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: Hello: I submitted my paperwork for a TS March 30, was granted an interim secret two weeks later, and I have already had my interview with the OPM investigator. Can I assume that I could get an interim TS within the next two/three months or so with final adjudication within a year?

Tim McManus: I think that's actually a very good assumption to make and some good news that the security clearance processing is improving. More and more agencies are now providing interim clearances to get good candidates onboard.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: How do you attract young talent to federal service, when the allure of the private sector is so great -- what are the primary selling points for public sector? and how do you make those points meaningful for young people?

Tim McManus: Great question. The allure of private sector money is often very appealing to someone coming out of school with tremendous debt. From our work, we've found that there is a glimmer of hope... Students are interested in more than just money. Government service offers an unprecedented opportunity to "make a difference," provides incredible professional development opportunities, work/life balance, great benefits and they're doing significant work at an early stage in their careers.

_______________________

Fairfax City, Va.: Mr. Dortch,

I am not sure if a federal government position would work for me, because of two things I don't know about. I am 37 years old and I have been working for government contractors for 10 years.

1. If I were to work for the federal government, would I have to start out at two weeks vacation or is that negotiable?

2. I don't know how switching to government would affect my retirement savings. Is there something similar to a 401k in the government, so that I don't have to work a certain number of years to get a federal retirement or something like that? Thanks.

Tim McManus: More than likely you would need to start at the two week vacation point, although some agencies are beginning to explore offering a higher accural rate for more experienced employees. There is something similar to a 401K in government called the Thrift Savings Plan. You can begin to contribute immediately and there is a government match.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: Hi, I'm a GS-13 federal employee, and I do budgeting/administrative work. I was wondering if you could advise how I could go about finding a federal job that I could telecommute to, either part-time or full-time? Is there a way to search for one in USAJOBS, or are there any agencies that hire more telecommuters, etc.? Thanks in advance for any advice!

Tim McManus: You can search for full and part-time jobs on USAJOBS but I would also encourage you to visit the sites of individual agencies that you may be interested in. There are a good number of positions that are part-time as well as increasing emphasis on providing some telework options for both full and part-time employees. Also, since you're already a federal employee, why not have a conversation with your supervisor about whether you can telecommute a day or two, work a compressed schedule, etc?

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: I'm a graduating senior very interested in working for the federal government because I feel that it will be fulfilling work. However, you hear horror stories of the stagnation and tediousness of the bureaucracy; I would prefer my career to be innovative and constantly evolving. Are there any agencies who are better at this than others, or would you recommend I seek work in business or the non-profit sector instead?

Tim McManus: I would definately encourage you to look at a federal position. A good place to start based on your question is looking at the Partnership for Public Service's "Best Places to Work" report. Best Place ranks federal agencies based on employee a survey of employee responses to questions about support for diversity, employee engagement and a number of other factors. From there, visit the agency site and USAJOBS to see what opportunities may be right for you!

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: I've appreciated your chats but I wonder, the military seems to have far more process associated with applying for jobs than most, the Army Corps, for instance, required official copies of transcripts, letters of good standing from the bar as well as letters of reference just to apply. Do they get any better people because of all that nonsense? It seems to defeat the purpose if the purpose is not to turn away all the good people. Can that change?

Tim McManus: You're not alone in your thinking. Several questions have been posted about the application process.

In your case, yes it can change. For instance, the Dept of Justice and SEC do not require a college transcript for all positions at the time of application. Rather, they ask for it if you're selected to interview. Just one way to reduce the barrier on the front end, while still getting the information they need to help inform their decision in the end.

_______________________

Derrick Dortch: Everyone says that internships are the way to get your foot into any corporation. Do you feel that is is the same for government? What internship programs are their for students both undergraduate and graduate students? Do you recommend that college graduates pursue internships as well?

Tim McManus: Derrick, internship are also key to getting your foot in the door of government. It provides interns a way to "test drive" their potential employer and the agency a similar opportunity to see if you're someone who would fit with the agency. The Partnership has developed a internship directory -- www.makingthedifference.org -- that list a number of internship programs throughout government, as well as contact info, deadlines, etc.

_______________________

Anonymous: As a relatively new government employee, less than 2 years, I am interested in ideas you may have for existing federal employees for branching out or getting other or better opportunities in the Federal itself. I have adjusted fairly well, though the work environment is not as dynamic or the whirlwind of challenges as some prior jobs.

Tim McManus: First, start by "stepping up" and talking with your supervisor about interest in working on additional projects in your agency. Second, if it's a matter of satisfaction with your own job, look to our Best Places to Work report to see those agencies where employee satisfaction and engagement are high and focus your search efforts on those agencies.

_______________________

Logan Circle: Any tips on upcoming CIA appearances at open, i.e. not only for students, career fairs? Submitted my resume online, didn't hear anything. Spoke in person with a CIA recruiter who said that this is SOP, called me "clearly extremely qualified"; but didn't handle the IT area recruiting. He advised me to keep coming out to job fairs until I find one where the recruiter who handles IT is out that day. That'd be great, except I haven't seen them at any non-college job fairs, and I've been out of college for a fair bit now. Advice, please? Love the chats! Thanks!

Tim McManus: Sorry to hear that the individual you talked to wasn't able to simply pass you on the IT recruiter. On most job postings government will at least list whom to contact if you have questions. If you've already submitted an application, contact them again to find out specifically who to reach out to. If they can't tell you keep trying. Also, visit the CIA Web site to see if they have any upcoming fairs, but do the other follow up first!

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: The starting vacation time for federal employees is 13 days per year plus the 10 holidays. Two weeks would be only 10 days.

Tim McManus: Great clarification.

_______________________

Omaha, Neb.: I've been trying for about 10 years to break into Federal Law Enforcement. At times it has been very frustrating. Case in point: one agency told me that I needed more education. So, I went back to school and got a Masters in a career related field. I went back through the hiring process with that same agency and was passed over again because I did not have enough experience (I have been in law enforcement now for almost 10 years). Meanwhile I personally know of people getting hired without advanced degrees or much experience. I know it is a broad question, but what exactly are these agencies looking for? I'm contemplating military service to help boost my resume. How much help (if any) would that be? Thanks.

Derrick Dortch: Omaha,

The situation you have presented is very discouraging indeed. I am not sure what agency or agencies you are pursuing but with if you have a Masters and if you have 10 years of law enforcement experience there is no reason why you are not qualified for a position within federal government. What I will say is that it sounds like the decisions that are being made in terms of hiring are based on personal preference rather than qualifications. If a hiring manager already knows who he/she wants they will still go through the process of interviewing others but they can and will pick who they want to pick at the end of the day.

What I will say about the military is that you should only join if you really want to serve. The military is a big commitment and if you join there is a strong possibility that you will be deployed. If that is okay with you then go forward but if you are just doing it thinking that it will automatically make you a stronger candidate then that might not always be the case. If you do decide to join the military you need to make sure you get into the right occupation and do the right things while in to make sure your resume is boosted.

In terms of what you need to do, you may want to think about a couple of things:

1. Explore other agencies. I am not sure if you are just looking at FBI, DEA or other bigger law enforcement agencies but you may want to look at NCIS (Naval Criminal Investigative Service), Air Force OSI (Office of Special Investigations), Army CID (Criminal Investigative Division), any agencies OIG (Office of Inspector General), US Postal Inspectors, IRS Criminal Investigators, Secret Service, etc. Each of these have law enforcement positions that you might meet the criteria for. Explore how to get your foot in the door through other agencies.

2. You may want to consider relocation. If you have the flexibility and can move you may want to think about working in the DC/MD/VA area and pursuing agencies here first. From there you can begin your career and always find ways to transfer to another location.

3. Network, Network, Network: In Omaha the number of opportunities will be fewer so its critical that you know the right people and have a good relationship with them. Focus on networking and getting to know those in the federal law enforcement ranks better. As you get to know them let them know of your interest and see if you can find someone who will open the door for you. If you work in law enforcement see if you can get on a federal task force or find ways to work with more federal agents. You may also want to go to events where more federal agents will be.

4. Make sure your package is targeted and sell you. Your package is your federal resume and KSAs. Make sure it is targeted, powerful and persuasive. It needs to represent you well when you are not in the room.

I could go on but time is short. Send me an email at dtd@diversagroup.com and I will be happy to talk to you more about your situation.

Take care and I wish you much success.

_______________________

Washington, DC: Hi Derrick -- I'm a young acquisition professional for a civilian agency, looking for a position abroad. I'm open to location -- I'd just like to expand on my Fed contracting experience and try to bring in my interest in linguistics and international business that I studied in college. I've had a few mentors who spent part of their careers on some of the German bases, but long enough ago that they no longer have contacts abroad. When it comes down to it, do I really have a chance with announcements for civilian DOD positions? Or despite the open announcement, do they really hire from within? Should I first try to break into a DOD job while still in the States?

Tim McManus: Contracting and acquisition jobs are some of the most needed within government. Absolutely you have a chance, and a good one for a civilian DoD position (or others within the government). DoD is not the only agency with international operations.

_______________________

Anonymous: In general, other than the specific skills necessary for the job, what else in qualifications is the federal government seeking in college grads? Besides work experience, what else would the federal government like to see on a student's resume?

Tim McManus: The two biggest suggestions for applying to a federal job -- First, make sure you talk about the mission match; in your cover letter. Why specifically you want to work for that agency and how your skills and ability match with their mission. Second, read the qualifications section of the posting carefully... agencies will typically state upfront what they're looking for most. Be sure to address those qualifications clearly and directly in responding to the essay questions.

_______________________

Derrick Dortch: Tim, what is the outlook for graduates in terms of government jobs?

Tim McManus: Outlook is good. The federal government needs to fill 193,000 mission critical jobs by 2009, including more than a quarter of which are entry level. Plus, there a jobs for virtually every major and area of interest!

_______________________

Philadelphia: Hello, could you tell us more about the Roosevelt Scholars program? Your site says you can sign up for updates, but is there anywhere else to read up to date information about details about the program and when it may be starting?

I would love to work for the federal government, but since I'm not a scientist, engineer, or health care professional I find that all of my applications go into an enormous abyss. The competition for the entry level positions for people with a liberal arts/humanities background and a few years of work experience is keen. Maybe participating in the Roosevelt Scholars program to focus my education is the answer! Thanks for any information.

Tim McManus: We are still awaiting introduction of legislation around the Roosevelt Scholars program, so information on our Web site is limited. With that said, the Roosevelt Scholars proposal would create an civilian ROTC-type model of scholarship assitance (at the graduate level) for a commitment of service with the federal government.

_______________________

Baltimore, Md.: My security clearance appeal has been rejected. I have the option to appeal one more time, and I'm considering it. But it might be months before I get a hearing, so even though I'm successful, my clearance would be worth 2 years max since so much time passed after the first denial. Is it worth it, or should I wait a couple of years to clear my record and reapply? What about security clearance lawyers? Do they make a difference and are they expensive?

Thanks for taking my questions.

Derrick Dortch: Hello Baltimore,

As a rule that you should always follow in any Security Clearance Process - IF DENIED ALWAYS APPEAL!

You have a couple of months to get yourself together. At this point you should know why you were denied your clearance. Make the necessary changes so that these issues that resulted in you being denied are no longer issues and can now be seen as mitigating circumstances. Focus on these changes and putting together a more powerful and persuasive appeal based on the true evidence that you are making changes and are not a risk.

This is what the appeals board needs to see to overturn a denial. They have to see compelling evidence that you are getting or have gotten whatever was wrong rectified and that you are now good to go.

YES APPEAL, APPEAL, APPEAL! Having a clearance denied for good is a monkey on our back that you can eventually get past but its not one that you want to have to carry.

If you need more assistance please contact me at dtd@diversagroup.com.

Take care and I wish you much success.

_______________________

Columbia, S.C.: Tell us about the Career Intern Program, please.

Tim McManus: The Federal Career Intern Program (FCIP) isn't an intern program as we would normally think of one. Ir is a two year entry level appointment designed to bring talented people into the federal government through a streamlined process. Applicants should apply directly to the federal agency using usajobs.gov or searching on the specific agency's Web site. Agencies set individual deadlines for their positions. Positions may be available throughout the year.

Agencies design their own FCIP but all participants will receive training. After two years, federal career interns can become permanent civil service employees. Individuals hired through a FCIP may begin at the GS-5, GS-7 and GS-9 levels. There is no limitation on promotion potential.

For more information visit: www.opm.gov/careerintern/index.asp.

Most agencies also offer additional internship and student employment programs.

_______________________

Madison, N.J.: What are some of the ways that federal agencies are innovating around hiring processes and retention of younger or newer staff members?

Tim McManus: Believe it or not, there are some agencies that are doing wonderfully innovative things to attract and retain good talent (at all levels). For instance, recently the Dept of Energy held on the spot interviews for a number of engineering positions. The positions were advertised a few weeks in advance of a job fair, candidates were assessed/evaluated, and invited to the fair for interviews where a few offers were made on the spot; just one example, but many others out there...

_______________________

Derrick Dortch: Tim, tell us more about some of the Partnership for Public Service Programs and the great work that PPS is doing.

Tim McManus: The Partnership is engaged in a ton of efforts to both attract top talent to government and eliminate the barriers (financial, processes) that may turn them away. In one of the other posts I mention the Roosevelt Scholars program, an ROTC-type of scholarship offered to grad students in return for federal service. We're also working directly with federal agencies on improving their hiring and onboarding. Through a project we did a few years ago, the Extreme Hiring Makeover, we worked with three agencies to cut the number of steps in the hiring process by more than half. Proof that change can (and needs to) happen!

For a full overview of our programs, visit www.ourpublicservice.org.

_______________________

Arlington, Va.: On most job postings government will at least list whom to contact if you have questions.

The most the contact will ever do is reiterate the "how to apply" information that you can find online. He/she might, MIGHT, be able to confirm receipt of your resume. He/she will never give you any feedback on your resume, give you the status of the announcement process, or refer you to selecting official.

Tim McManus: I'm sorry that's the experience you've had. You're right that they will not hand you off to the hiring official, but in many cases they will at least tell you where the process is at the moment.

_______________________

Alexandria, Va.: FCIP:

We have a few new FCIPs in our agency. Most have told me that they found out about the position/program from their universities (when they were still students)... rather than through USAJOBS... (that was just the application portal)

Tim McManus: That's right not only for FCIP's but for positions in general. Don't rely solely on a Web site -- USAJOBS or other -- for your search. Not surprisingly, most people find out about jobs with the government (and it's not much different in private and nonprofit sectors) from others who are or have worked there. Expand your network, talk to alumni and others about opportunities they know about.

_______________________

Arlington, Va.: At one time I was trying to be a part of a new generation of Federal employees. Now I am a disgruntled middle-aged curmudgeon. I have an MA, a PhD, and fluency in a language routinely categorized as "critical." I have applied for at least 400 job announcements and have gotten a handful of interviews. I have sought feedback on my resume and been told it looks great. (Mr. Dortch invited me to contact him privately in one of these discussions but never responded to my email.)

The common reaction I get is, you know those jobs are all pre-selected. Do you have any advice on how to become pre-selected?

Derrick Dortch: Hello Arlington,

First let me apologize if I was not able to get to your email. I get numerous emails each week and I do try to take time to respond but I do admit that there is never enough time to answer each. Please contact me again and remind me that you posted this today and we will set up a time to talk via phone so i can answer your questions.

In terms of pre-selection there are a number of positions that are posted where the hiring manager has already determined who they want in the position. You can usually tell these positions by either the opening and close dates being very short or by the KSA questions being so specific that you would have to be working in that office to answer them.

Unless you know the hiring manager/selecting official it is hard to be pre-selected for a position. The only way you can really do this is by networking, networking and more networking. Through contacts and relationships that you build within the federal government you let people know that you are interested in working in the federal government. From there they may be able to make calls or talk to people that an lead to the right door opening situation for you.

This is a good way to do it but it can be an equally long process as well. What i do suggest is making sure you target the right federal jobs. When doing this do three things:

1. Make sure you are highly qualified

2. Make sure the position is actually open

3. Develop a strong, targeted and powerful package (federal resume and KSAs) that will sell you

Make sure you contact me today and I will respond before the night is out so we can set up a time to talk.

Take care and I wish you much success.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: Hi Derrick and Tim,

The initial government clearance is through the SF-85 and I have passed that and am happy to say I will start my federal government job on May 12! My question is: Can you get in the government initially with the SF-85 but not pass the SF-86 once you have started the job?

Thanks!

Derrick Dortch: Hello D.C.,

First, let me say congratulations!!!! That is very good news to hear that you made it. The quick answer to your question is YES: you can get cleared with the SF-85 and then not get through with the SF-86. The reason being is that the SF-85 is for non-sensitive positions. The background investigation is no where near as detailed or thorough for non-sensitive positions as it is for positions that require a clearance. The SF-86 is for National Security Positions. There are more questions on the SF-86 that have to deal with finances, foreign contacts, etc.

A person can very well get through and get a non-sensitive government job and then not be able to get a position requiring a security clearance. But honestly the number of positions that do not require a clearance are pretty great so many people can work their entire government career and never have a security clearance.

You can find both forms here:

http://www.opm.gov/forms/html/sf.asp

I hope this answers yours question. Take care and I wish you much success.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: 2007 law grad still looking for that first job. I've applied to countless attorney positions (GS-11) through usajobs.gov but have only had one interview. Never received a rejection letter or any response for that matter after the interview, even after sending thank you emails.

It's been 11 months of unemployment and I'm way over the end of my resources. What's an unemployed attorney to do?

Derrick Dortch: Hello Washington, D.C.,

The government job search can be quite frustrating and I think what may be happening with you is that you may need to change your targeting strategy. For a new law graduate GS 11 is sometime hard to obtain. I am not saying impossible but sometimes difficult. There are a a large number of new graduates as well as people who have been practicing law for some years who are all trying to get that GS 11 positions just like you so the competition is heavy and you are probably not being seen as the most highly qualified.

Let me suggest a couple of things.

1. Change your targeting strategy. Consider doing a Attorney Advisor search but focus on positions that say GS 9 - 12. I know this may not be the salary you want to start off at but trust me you will rise up to a GS-11 or 12 relatively quickly (within a few years).

2. Focus strongly on developing a more powerful package. Based on what you are telling me here I have some concern that your package (federal resume, KSAs, cover letter, etc) is not selling you the way it should. Remember you are competing with a lot of attorneys for a limited number of positions. Your package has to truly be powerful, persuasive, targeted and memorable. You will hear me say this over and over and over again but its only because its true. Spend more time on making sure you do this.

3. Network, Network, Network: I say this over and over again as well but touch base with your old classmates or some alumni from our school who may now be in the federal sector. Talk to them and express your interest in federal work. See if you can get some informational interviews, go to lunch, ask them for guidance, etc. Utilize these contacts to help you with your search.

I could go on and on but please do not give up. Tweak your strategy a little and then continue to press forward. You will have to be patient and persistent but it will pay off.

If you have more questions or need more assistance contact me at dtd@diversagroup.com.

Take care and I wish you much success.

_______________________

Arlington, Va.: Mr. Dortch, it depends on if you are a contractor or military or civilian employee in DOD. Contractor side: Unless the judge made a procedural error or the decision was arbitary and capricious, your appeal is worthless since they in most cases don't consider new evidence.

The Appeals Boards for DOD civilians and military are different, do accept new evidence and you have a better chance of winning an appeal.

Also remember on the contractor side DOD can appeal a favorable determination by the hearing officer/admin. judge.

-- A DOD adjudicator

Derrick Dortch: Thank you my friend. Good to see you back.

_______________________

Pre-selection: Pre-selection is often the case, but there's another reason resumes may have difficulty getting through: HR personnel can often not interpret technical language or even specific credentials for some positions they need to make the "first cut" on. They're not sure what they're seeing, and may assume "unqualified"; as easily as "really well qualified." I was eventually hired into a position by a manager who HR had told there were no qualified applicants for. She'd gotten the resumes and realized there were a number of qualified individuals who had applied. HR just didn't understand what they were reading. A hard choice to make when writing your quals -- enough jargon so the manager knows you understand the subject, but not too much so that HR understands your application!

Derrick Dortch: Thanks for you comments.

_______________________

Derrick Dortch: Once announcement that I promised to get in:

The Institute for World Politics will have an open house on Wednesday, May 28 from 5:30-8 p.m. If you are interested in careers in government, national security, homeland security, intelligence, diplomacy, world politics then it has a strong graduate program that you should consider.

Find out more at: www.iwp.edu

_______________________

Derrick Dortch: Wow, time flies. I wish we had more time to answer all of your questions but unfortunately we have to go. Let me give a big THANK YOU to Tim McManus from the Partnership for Public Service for being my guest today and taking your questions. Also let me thank Sarah Howe, also from PPS, for coordinating Tim's appearance.

As usual let me thank my Editor Amy Adkins for producing today's show.

Thank you for stopping by the show. I truly appreciate you. We will back back next month to do it again. Until them make sure you stay safe and I wish you much success in your career, work, and life.

Derrick T. Dortch

_______________________

Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions. washingtonpost.com is not responsible for any content posted by third parties.