Friday, May 30, 2 p.m. ET
The 'Lost' Hour
Friday, May 30, 2008; 2:00 PM
Has "Lost" got you a mite confused and ready to hurl at the next mention of smoke monsters? Or do you have the fate of the Oceanic 6 and the Jack-Kate-Sawyer-Juliet love square all figured out? Who got Scooby Dooed this week? Are you a new viewer, adrift on an unfamiliar isle or an old hand ready to bare knuckle some quantum physics? In either case, we're here for you and armed with more mediocre puns and pop culture references than a hunky con man than you can shake a stick at and ready to explain exactly what it is that Cheech Marin and Bai Ling have to do with any of the above.
Post.com "Lost" bloggers Liz Kelly and Jen Chaney will attempt to get to the bottom of these matters every Friday. Liz and Jen, both obsessive "Lost" fans, have been writing their weekly dueling analysis of the show since 2006.
When not debating the merits of Sawyer's hotness, Liz Kelly writes the
For episode analysis, discussion transcripts and more, visit washingtonpost.com's Lost Central.
Liz Kelly: Welcome to our final "Lost" chat of the season. Lots to talk about and we've got a bumper crop of comments and questions here to get us started. Since there's so much to go over, we may stay on a little longer than our allotted hour (sorry producer Paul!), so keep 'em coming.
Jen Chaney: Yes, I suspect this will be an extended edition of the "Lost" chat, a director's cut if you will.
Still so much to chew on and you all already seem to be feasting on appetizers. So let's get started.
Columbia, MD: So why does Jeremy Bentham look like John Locke? Was Jeremy ever mentioned before? I'm getting too old for this.
Lost in Columbia, MD
Liz Kelly: Oh Columbia, I think you need to get a little rest and learn to relax and let the show wash over you. And, if you haven't read yet, you might want to take a gander at this morning's post-show analysis-- Jen and I get into all this and more, all for the low low price of free!
But to get to your immediate concern: Jeremy Bentham is indeed John Locke. He somehow made it off island and was living under a false name.
Also, to clear up any other potential confusion -- the Great and Powerful Oz was actually a tired old man behind a curtain.
Jen Chaney: And Kevin Johnson is Michael. And Boone was hot.
There, that should clear up just about everything.
My Band is Called "Frozen Donkey Wheel": Liztham and Jentham,
Are you sure that the wheel was a donkey wheel? Because it looked an awful lot like a capstan, a device on 18th Century sailing ship used to lift an anchor so that you can move...
Jen Chaney: Yeah, I am not sure about the donkey part. But clearly that is what they must have been referring to.
Relating it back to a sailing ship, though? That's kind of intriguing...
Oh, I also forgot to mention this. When Ben is with the wheel, he is wearing the same coat (and had the same gash) he had when he suddenly woke up in the desert a few episodes back. Which suggests that's where Ben must have gone when the island moved. Maybe?
Liz Kelly: I totally thought capstan, too. Too many Patrick O'Brien novels.
But a capstan would fit in nicely with the idea that the Black Rock crew had something to do with building that wheel contraption.
Arlington, VA: Can you solve this "Lost" mystery?--What happened to Sawyer's shirt between the time he jumped out of the helicopter and when he swam to shore? I'll admit that Josh Holloway has a good physique, but that was a real cheesecake moment!
Jen Chaney: Cheesecake goes nicely with well-preserved Dharma crackers.
Look, Sawyer needed to swin swiftly. His shirt was holding him back. It's what any wise, self-sacrificing guy would do.
Desmond barely has his shirt on half the time, and that's when he's walking around on dry land.
Liz Kelly: I think it's safe to say Sawyer beat Desmond fair and square to the bare-chest finish line.
U Street: I'm still confused about the whole Oceanic 6 lie. Why did they even need to come forward? Couldn't they slowly sneak back into society? It seems like none of them really had family they wanted to return to...and also, why pretend that Libby, Charlie and Boone almost survived? They're lucky they didn't say Claire!
Jen Chaney: I am not sure they could sneak back in necessarily. Hurley was a high-profile guy with a family, and Jack's mom was still around. Plus, as Locke instructed Jack last night, he needed to lie to protect the rest of the people on the island, to keep anyone from looking for more survivors and finding the island, aka The Place Where Miracles Happen.
Re: Libby, Charlie and Boone, I am not sure why they felt compelled to mention them as opposed to others that were on the flight. I was confused on that point, too. Maybe it made the story seem more credible? In Charlie's case, the Drive Shaft fans might have wondered what happened to him.
Liz Kelly: And this just in from Dark UFO: Kate's phone message reversed.
Apparently it was a voice saying: "The island needs you. You have to go back." Which isn't really the best way to get someone to bend to your will. I mean, like a single mom has time to record and reverse crank calls.
Jen Chaney: That was so Ben on the phone.
Liz Kelly: And I know his next line would have been " So what are you wearing..."
Jen Chaney: Followed by: "I baked you a ham..."
Houston: So perhaps Michael is the father of Jin Yeon? Why else would Sun tell him she is pregnant? And will Jin Yeon also have to go back to the island? Another instance of black and white? Or Adam (Aaron) and Eve (Jin Yeon)?
Liz Kelly: A friend called from New York this morning to ask if Charlotte -- who intimated she was born on-island -- could be the time-traveling love child of Sawyer and Juliette. The mind reels...
Jen Chaney: I don't think Michael is the father. I just took that to mean that Sun considered Michael a friend, and wanted him to know she was having a child. (It also gave him valuable information, since he forced Jin to get the heck out of the room with the explosives.)
I am wondering if Charlotte could be related to Ben's beloved Annie...
Liz Kelly: Jen! Breaking News!
Jen Chaney: Yowza. Stop the presses, indeed.
Arlington, VA: When you ladies said this:
Jen Chaney: That was so Ben on the phone.
Liz Kelly: And I know his next line would have been "So what are you wearing..."
Jen Chaney: Followed by: "I baked you a ham..."
I had a flashback to Ben's date with Kate on the beach that one time.
Jen Chaney: He had clearly learned some lessons after the Juliet date. He had the decency to give Kate a nice dress.
Liz Kelly: But he just can't shake the whole creep aura.
Walnut Creek, Calif.: So I've noticed people are un-impressed by the lo-tech magical "donkey wheel" which Ben uses to moves the island: but as he exploded the vault in the Orchid Station to access another cavern, isn't it more plausible that this isn't Dharma gear at all, but something dating back to the Black Rock era?
Liz Kelly: It would seem so, though I thought it might actually pre-date the Black Rock. More and more, I'm thinking that we need to think of the Black Rock as an early era model of the freighter -- it didn't end up on the island by accident, but by design.
Jen Chaney: That Donkey Wheel is a primitive version of the flux capacitor. That's all I'm sayin'.
Liz Kelly: Jen (hearts) the flux capacitor. That's why she mentions it at every possible juncture.
Rockville, MD.: This may be easy to answer and please feel free to do so if you can. Why did they need to move the island after Keamy and his posse were dead? Shouldn't that have ended the dire need to make it disappear? Or were the island dwellers convinced that Widmore now knew of its location?
Jen Chaney: Well, the only people who felt compelled to move the island were Locke and Ben. And I think Keamy was only a small reason for that. I believe Ben, in particular, wants to keep the island hidden at all costs, from Widmore or anyone else.
DC: First: When Jack is in the funeral parlor listing where the other Oceanic 6 are, he says "Sun blames me for..." We assume Sun blames him for Jin's death, but if that was the case, the writers would've had him say just say it. I think Jack is going to do something to Sun, maybe to all the Oceanic 6, that is going to leave them with a great distate for him. Perhaps why Kate is SO angry at him, and why Sun has supposedly teamed up with Widmore.
Second: Charlie's message for Jack (via Hurley) a few episodes ago was "You're not supposed to raise him." Raise Aaron seemed a good fit at the time, but now it could be that Jack is not supposed to raise the dead, i.e. Locke.
What do you think?
Liz Kelly: Hmm, okay, that's a thought. I still think Jack was just going to say "...for Jin's death." It was implied that it was Jack's decision to not turn back and get Jin off the freighter deck.
Of course, if Sun had been thinking clearly she would be putting the blame where it should actually rest: square at the feet of drunk-driving actor Daniel Dae Kim, who is the latest victim of the "Lost" DUI curse.
But speaking of mysteries. We were led to believe that no one wanted to attend Jeremy Bentham's funeral because he was universally reviled. Well, what's the deal? Were Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun and the rest really that disenchanted with John Locke or has something happened in the intervening time to sour them on him?
It's also interesting that Bentham (Locke) paid a visit to Walt. That would seem to imply that he'd like Walt to return to the island, too? I mean, why bother visiting him otherwise?
Jen Chaney: Like Liz, I assumed Sun blamed Jack for Jin's death, too. Especially since he kept yelling "He's gone." She looked to him as the leader to take charge and make Lapidus turn around. And he didn't do that. But I suppose it's possible there could be more to it than that.
And I like that thought about Charlie. Definitely more than one way to interpret those words.
Naperville, IL : Something was missing from the analysis. Where was Sayid taking Hurley???
Jen Chaney: Ah, good question. Maybe Sayid is helping Ben get the ol gang back together. That would be my assumption.
Liz Kelly: Right. And it would seem that since Ben actually wants the Oceanic 6 to go back to the island, this may make them all targets for Charles Widmore. Since Ben never does anything out of the goodness of his heart (No matter what Jen says. Don't listen to her!), killing the O6 could be seen as a way for Widmore to thwart Ben and his diabolical schemes. So that he, Widmore, can put his own diabolical scheme in motion.
Man, there really is no good guy here, eh?
Jen Chaney: Okay, for the record, let's get something straight. Ben does very, very bad things. He is manipulative. He blows up freighters with zero regard. I am not condoning such actions.
What I am saying is that whatever Ben thinks he is working to achieve may wind up being for the greater good. His means? Horrible. His ends? We'll see.
Bloomington, Ind.: Hi, I just wanted to know your theories/ideas on how Locke (or I guess I should call him Jeremy Bentham) dies (because its obviously not suicide), and what the "horrible things" that happen to Locke and the others after the Oceanic Six leave the island. My guess is that it involves Widmore again, possibly sending more people to the island, or even Widmore taking control of the island himself, and/or the survivors that were left on the island. However I've been proven to be wrong time and time again....
Liz Kelly: I'm really murky on what could possibly happen -- I mean the writers could take this anywhere, but I do think that the only way John knows to get off the island is by jumping through the pod and moving it, so he somehow gets to a point where he feels things have become dire enough to leave the island.
Which for John is a big deal. Remember, he doesn't want to leave this island for many reasons, not the least of which is that he doesn't know if he'll even be able to walk if he leaves. So he must've been pretty desperate to take that step and turn the ol' wheel of white light.
Jen Chaney: Yeah, not to be lame, but I can't begin to guess right now. I don't think Locke actually committed suicide, though.
Washington, D.C. : But if Jeremy Bentham was John Locke, why did Kate, Walt, etc. call him that instead of Locke? I would think that each of them would still refer to him as Locke, since thats how they each knew him on the island... this episode was great, but made my head swim.
Liz Kelly: The same reason we called Ben Linus Henry Gale for a season.
Jen Chaney: Perhaps they also agreed not to refer to Locke, as part of their cover-up.
Columbia, MD: Sawyer-Kate kiss: telegraphed, lukewarm, yawn
Dez-Penny kiss: chills, tears, hurrah!
Jen Chaney: I thought both kisses were good, but agree, Des and Penny was more exciting.
Did anyone catch what Sawyer whispered to Kate? After rewinding and jacking up the volume considerably, it sounded like he was telling her he had a daughter back home. And that she should find her and tell her that Sawyer is sorry.
Which would explain the work that Kate feels she has to do off-island for Sawyer.
Liz Kelly: Right, I definitely made out the word "daughter." And that would jibe with Kate looking at him incredulously and saying "why are you telling me this now?"
I'm the one who woke up at 5:30 to watch Lost:: Someone suggested in the comments at Alan Sepinwall's
Liz Kelly: Hey, glad you were able to get up and watch before anyone spoiled it for you. I can think of worse ways to spend the early morning.
I hadn't heard that theory -- so you think the wheel was designed to make it easy for polar bears to turn? Hmm.
One theory I have heard is that the polar bears got to the island in one of its previous moves when it must've materialized close to the north pole or, possibly, in an ice age.
Jen Chaney: That is a very interesting theory. Not sure I buy it, but like all things that involve the polar bears, I like it.
Locke: Has anyone thought of the possibility that it really wasn't Locke in the coffin at all? Maybe I am stretching here, but maybe it's some evil twin of Locke that we never knew about before? Sounds crazy, but it just seems strange to me that NONE of the O6, Ben, or Walt could refer to him as Locke, instead of Bentham.
Liz Kelly: Okay, here's one theory.
New Otherton: Jeremy Benthem's body is on display in a "casket," but the head is made of wax. Hmm, maybe John Locke in the casket is not all there either.
Liz Kelly: And another, referring to this.
Washington, DC : They didn't answer the most important question: Where's Vincent?
Jen Chaney: Yeah, where IS Vincent? Maybe Sawyer can look after him.
Liz Kelly: Vincent is Jacob.
Strong Island: Remind me why Charlie died. Wasn't it to save Claire? Didn't Desmond have a vision of her getting on a helicopter?
I feel like that story-line was a waste now.
Jen Chaney: This issue has been raised before. But let's reexamine. Desmond's vision, at least as we know so far, turned out to be wrong. But what wasn't wrong was for Charlie to go into the Looking Glass. Because of that, he was able to relay the info about the freighter not being Penny's. And perhaps if he hadn't died, he wouldn't have been able to appear to Hurley off-island and impart messages to him, messages that may be valuable.
That said, I miss Charlie and wish he were back on the show.
Ben's emotions: So when Ben tells lock that good decisions get overridden by bad emotional responses, isn't that a bit contrary to what he told Sayid earlier this year in "The Economist" -- something like "remember what happened the time you thought with your heart instead of your mind"? Do as I say not as I do?
Jen Chaney: No, I think that's more a case of Ben says whatever he needs to say in the moment.
I don't doubt he is genuinely upset about his daughter, but I also wonder if Ben wanted the freighter to blow up. The one thing to rely on is that you can't take Ben at his word.
Liz Kelly: Agreed. Ben is out for one person -- himself. He'll say whatever it takes to get through a moment.
Washington, DC: re: not calling Locke by his real name... didn't Sayid tell Hurley not to say it b/c they were being watched??
Jen Chaney: Aha! Yes, he sure did.
Anonymous: Who has the link to the alternate endings from last night?
Liz Kelly: Here you are. But they weren't serious options -- just ruses to throw off spoilers.
Yo, Rose: I'm gonna keep my eye on you, Shorty.
Jen Chaney: Rose is the shizzle.
re: Jin: You know how I said I was mad at 10:15 about how Jin died?
Well, 10:45 just completely made up for it. Go Des and Penny! I love the writers!
Jen Chaney: As I said, the Jin thing was indeed wrenching. I cried. I'll admit it.
Arlington, VA: Following up on a rumor you passed along next week, any speculation on who the female cast member might be who goes on hiatus for Season 5 but returns for Season 6?
Jen Chaney: I am assuming it's Claire. That makes the most sense.
Claire's accent: Was it just me or did Claire's accent disappear when dream/ghost talking to Kate? It seemed very flat and unlilty.
Jen Chaney: She also seemed ultra-scary. If I wake up in the middle of the night and find her in my son's room, I am outta there.
(P.S. I will make sure I take my son with me, though.)
Washington, D.C.: What character do you hope to see more of next season? Me, I'm interested in Miles. He seems to have this Ben-like quality of knowing things that nobody else knows. Or at least thinking he does.
Liz Kelly: Agreed.
My list would be:
Jen Chaney: I agree about Miles.
I also would add:
Manly Non-Ghost Walt (because I really want to know what his story is)
Des-and-Penny, who now count as one unit
You Women....: look at these actors as nothing more than a piece of meat. It's degrading to us men. we want to be respected for our minds and our personalities.
Not just some chizzeled chest on a beach.
washingtonpost.com: Dude, did you see Kate in the pajama top last night?
Liz Kelly: I think you mean "chiseled." See, Jen, they can't even spell.
Liz Kelly:"They" meaning you pieces of meat.
Jen Chaney: We respect them. We really do.
But we can't ignore shirtless Sawyer. I mean, come on, we're only human.
Glendale, Wisc.: I'm starting to change my mind about Juliet. Maybe she still has more Other blood in her than we think. She seem so unaffected by the freighter blowing up. Almost like she had inside information.
Jen Chaney: I think she was affected. She started drinking, didn't she?
Liz Kelly: I'm with Jen. I assumed Juliet had numbed herself with alcohol. Remember, getting off the island was important to her, too -- she has always wanted to get back to her sister and niece. When she saw the freighter blow up, she knew her last good chance was gone.
Desmond is never wrong: Yes, Desmond saw a vision of Claire and baby getting on the helicopter..but maybe the vision was fuzzy. Maybe he actually saw Kate and baby getting on helicopter...or maybe Charlie changed the future by warning everyone about the freighter.
Jen Chaney: Good point. It could have been fuzzy.
And didn't Desmond sort of change his mind on Charlie at the last minute, telling him not to go to the Looking Glass? I need to revisit my season three eps again, but I seem to recall that.
Liz Kelly: Yep, Desmond tried to take on the Looking Glass perils himself, but it wasn't in the cards.
But if we're going to interpret visions technically -- Kate didn't get on the copter with Aaron. Sun did. Kate handed off Aaron to Sun and went looking for Jin.
Rockville: Ben went ahead and killed Keamy because he knew that when the island was moved the radio signal between the monitor and bomb would be lost. In his mind, he didn't cause anything to happen that wasn't about to happen anyway.
Liz Kelly: Oh, well in that case it was okay, then, to casually condemn who knows how many people to death.
Jen Chaney: Oh, Liz. You and your wacky hatred for murderous liars. It's so unjustified.
Membata, Indonesia : It looks like Michael won't be back to Lost dead or alive. Harold Perrineau
Liz Kelly: Perrineau's reaction is pretty much the way Jen and I felt about it, too:
I had no idea. It's like, what the hell? I came back for that? (When asked if he knew his character was going to be killed off.)
It has to be jarring to not know whether your character is safe. Especially now that we're heading into the final two seasons, they all have to be walking around on egg shells.
Portsmouth, N.H.: Jack says to Desmond: "See you in another life brother" which reminds me of the stadium scene long ago. Was that the stadium run a flash forward?
Liz Kelly: No, the stadium scene was a flash back, if I recall correctly. Remember -- they talk about Jack's patient at the time, Sarah, who he (Jack) later ends up marrying.
Fedland, D.C.:"You heard it here first -- the island is not an island, it's a ship -- the Black Rock."
Oh my god, I think you're right. It's a humongous spaceship carved out of an asteroid that crashlanded eons ago!
Posted by: Arachnae - May 30, 2008 2:17 PM
I think the posters might be on to something. In that video that Locke was watching, the Dr. said that there was electromagnetism and alien matter....
washingtonpost.com: I thought he said "exotic."
Liz Kelly: See, and I thought he said "organic."
But what you're saying is that the island is the Great Space Coaster?
Jen Chaney: I thought he said exotic, too. I don't recall anything being said about aliens.
Fort Wayne, IN: Hi Gals,
These may be difficult questions to answer, but why can't Ben return to the Island? I know he says that whoever moves the Island cannot return to it, but is it because he won't be able to find it? Or maybe the island would kill him if he returned?
Is the Island ticked off that it was moved so it won't let whoever moved it back? I hope this is a question that the writers answer but not optimistic that they will.
Jen Chaney: I think we have to understand more about that. And I am hopeful the writers will explain. My gut tells me that the person couldn't return for a combo of the reasons you list -- the not finding and the being banned from coming back.
The island can get pretty ticked, you know.
Liz Kelly: And we have to ask ourselves if Ben is telling the truth, though. Maybe he can come back. We saw others -- including Ben, Ethan and Richard Alpert come and go from the island before.
Seattle, WA: Theory: Lost is an almalgam of influences, but mostly a combination of Shangri-la and "Paradise Lost," with the Island being Purgatory, where people are given a chance at redemption. Each of the main characters can be associated with one of the seven deadly sins: Jack -- Pride, Sun -- Lust, Sawyer -- Greed, Locke -- Wrath, Hurley -- Gluttony, etc. If they repent they can be saved, if they rationalize their sins, like Mr. Eko, they are Lost. In "Paradise Lost," the Devil is actually entombed in ice, so maybe that explains the parkas and the polar bears....
What do you think?
washingtonpost.com: I guess we know what the next Book Club book will be.
Liz Kelly: Interesting.
Abandon hope all ye who enter here. Or something like that.
Alexandria, VA: How does Miles know certain information about Charlotte? It seems that even among Widmore's team there are certain layers of information. Why was Miles so adamant about staying? It seems so strange to me.
Liz Kelly: Because Miles has extra-sensory powers. He gets vibrations and places "talk" to him. Either he read Charlotte's mind or he's had some flashes about her history on the island.
Jen Chaney: Well, Miles also can communicate with the dead. So if Charlotte is reincarnated or living dead or anything of the sort, seems like Miles would be uniquely attuned to that.
Falls Church, VA: Here's a crazy theory for you -- The Casimir Effect is closely related to quantum theory, part of quantum theory is that (in theory) solid objects could pass through another solid object (a dropped quarter could pass through a table, etc.)
Northern Africa (where Ben wound up a few episodes ago, apparently after he turned the Donkey Wheel/ship steerer) is exactly on the opposite side of the world from the general area where the Losties are stranded.
Possible that the Island is not only time-travel ready, but a kind of transporter, using the Quantum Theory alluded to with the Casimir Effect reference?
Liz Kelly: Okay.
Jen Chaney: I think that's totally possible. And in fact, I believe LindeCuse mentioned this in a recent podcast (a listener raised a similar question) and it sounded like they supported that basic concept.
It's sort of like the wormhole thing. That's how the Losties got to the island in the first place, seems to me. Which is why Jack keeps flying and flying in the hope that he'll get back via another wormhole.
Great, I so have to read Stephen Hawking again.
Liz Kelly: Though Ben last night scoffed at Jack's hope that another crash would lead him to the island.
Tucson, Ariz.: LOVED the finale, but one thing kept nagging at me -- with the enormous savior-complex that is so clearly a part of Jack's nature, how is it possible that it took him three years to begin entertaining the idea that maybe he should try to do something to rescue Juliet and the rest of Losties left behind on the island? I know The Lie was meant to protect those still on the island, but really, how could the good doctor we've come to know and love rest until he had made every effort to save everyone?
Liz Kelly: Well, we have to assume Jack thought they were somehow safer on the island for that period of time. It seems he changed his mind after his visit from the dreaded Jeremy Bentham.
Jen Chaney: As Locke said, Jack lies to himself. So for a while, I think he convinces himself that he did the best he could to save everyone and he just has to let it lie.
I think his views on that start to change even before the Bentham visit. When his father starts showing up, and Claire's mom tells him that Claire is his half-sister, he starts to lost it. Bentham/Locke (Locketham?) just puts him over the edge, it seems.
Ft. Myers, FL: Here is my theory on the Claire vision. After the O6 go back to the island, the whole time shift thing happens. Claire didn't die and can get on the helicopter and raise Aaron herself -- ergo the whole "you aren't supposed to raise him" thing.
Go ahead. Kill my theory
Jen Chaney: I won't kill it because I like it. I think there will be some sort of "do-over" or reversal of the clock or something before the series ends.
And all the dead will be alive again. And together, they will throw the best beach luau ever.
Bender: Seeing as you two are all-powerful, any chance on turning the Donkey Wheel to move the next season up four months in time?
Liz Kelly: Don't we wish.
Jen and I are considering firing up the book club again to tide us over and we will be attending Comic-Con at the end of July, where LindeCuse normally give us some hints about the coming season.
Jen Chaney: We also will be meeting at Comic-Con with Octagon Global Recruiting. I am hoping they will let me be an administrative assistant.
Glover Park Loves Sawyer: I think good ol' "Jeremy" visited Walt much the same way Alpert visited a young Locke back in the day -- recruiting an upcoming brilliant psychopathic leader of the Others.
Liz Kelly: Not bad, Glover Park. Not bad at all. Could well be. I think we also need to keep Aaron in the running for that job, tho.
jake in silver spring: Favorite lines of the night...
Ben saying to Locke about killing people on the freighter "so?"
Hurley playing chess "checkmate, Mr. Ecko"
Sawyer calling the pilot "Kenny Rogers"
Christian saying to Michael "You can go now"
Can you refresh my memory--several episodes ago, when we see Ben has dozens of different passports with different aliases and foreign currency, couldn't we assume then that Ben was travelling on and off the island? If that's the case, isn't it possible that Locke was merely doing the same thing that Ben was doing? And in the process of his travelling under an assumed name (Jeremy Bentham), he was killed...Or am I totally missing something?
Oh, and the tone of Sayid's voice when Hurley asked about Bentham's death suggests that he may have killed him, don't ya think?
Jen Chaney: Sayid killing him is a total possibility. And if Locke assumed Ben's role in the truest sense, it's also possible he was indeed traveling under assumed names.
My favorite line of the night, from Locke: "You put a gun to my head and pulled the trigger. I was hoping we could just let bygones be bygones."
Liz Kelly: I think my exchange was when Ben and Locke descend to the Orchid and Locke asks Ben "Is that the magic box?" And Ben just kind of rolls his eyes and says "Nooo, John."
Shirtless Sawyer: In the interest of having less water resistance while swimming back to the island, Sawyer probably should have taken off his pants, too.
Jen Chaney: Now you're talking some sense!
P.S. I very much respect Sawyer's intelligence, often exhibited when he wears those glasses with the tape on them.
Liz Kelly: I have nothing to add.
Dallas, Texas: the luau - with ham!
Jen Chaney: And Dharma beer. Hurley can fire up his Walkman.
Oh, it will be the party of the century, brotha.
U St: Why do we think Jin is dead? Not saying it isn't so, but the episode seemed to leave it as being intentionally vague. At no point in last night's episode or the Jin flash back/Sun flash forward episode were we led to believe that he definitely was dead. Sun would have set up a gravestone if they needed to sell the story to the rest of the world that he died. And her visiting and breaking down would be just as likely to occur if he was actually dead or if he was still alive but stuck on the island (which she could find out in a future point between when she gets off the island and this season's flash forward).
washingtonpost.com: First rule of comic books: No body = no death.
Liz Kelly: Right. We don't know that Jin is dead. We just assume that he probably didn't survive an exploding freighter. Which isn't a fantastical assumption.
But on "Lost" life and death are merely states of mind. The island is pretty crowded between all of the live people and the walking ghosts -- Christian, Claire, Horace Godspeed, etc.
Jen Chaney: It's true, he *might* not be dead. But I actually would be annoyed if he weren't. The ship exploded in major fashion. Just seems like a soap opera stretch if he lived.
Maybe it's just me.
Olympia WA: I was wondering if Desmond would become Widmore's Sayid through the Penny connxn. Unless Penny turns on CW like Sun turned on her dad.
Jen Chaney: If Penny realized her dad is up to no good, she'll turn. Heck, she'll turn as soon as she realizes her dad stuck Desmond on a boat. (I don't think she knows that yet, does she?)
San Francisco, CA: I just keep waiting for someone to stumble onto the Sheraton on the other side of the Island...
Liz Kelly: Maybe that's the horrible thing Bentham was referring to when he said bad things happened after Jack and co. left. They found a Sheraton and were subjected to AARP karaoke.
Alexandria: Hurley totally lied to Walt.
I fell for it too. I thought Michael would save the freighter, since he obviously lived, since Hurley wouldn't lie to Walt about his dad staying on the island when he really died.
Liz Kelly: I have no explanation for why Hurley would do that except that he wanted to spare Walt some pain. Because Hurley would have to assume Michael was dead after seeing the freighter blow up. And unlike Jin, who was on deck and possibly could've swam away, Michael was in the bowels of the ship literally on top of the C4.
Make no mistake, Michael is dead. Deader than dead. He's Christian Shepard seal-of-approval dead.
Jen Chaney: Yup, totally dead, as the Cole Porter song goes.
Even before we saw Michael die, I assumed from Hurley's delivery that he had died and Hurley was just trying to shield that information from Walt. But shouldn't Walt know anyway? He has special powers and everything, doesn't he?
DC: Where did Rose and Bernard end up?
Liz Kelly: We have to assume they're on island, right? We know Rose never wanted to leave -- the island seemed to keep her cancer at bay -- and her presence was confirmed last night. Remember, she chastised Miles for eating Dharma nuts.
Speaking of Miles -- I hope he's given more of a role next season. Ken Leung's job on this show has been excellent. Considering the small material he's had to work with, he just delivers his lines with a certain, almost Ben Linus-like, flair. Loved his exchange with Charlotte last night:
"What do I mean?" hmmmmmmm....
U Street: Any theories as to why Kate wouldn't go into hiding like Desmond? She went on the lam once. Why not do it again.
Liz Kelly: Because she wanted to stop running and to raise Aaron? And she was convinced by someone -- perhaps the Oceanic people -- that they would mount a killer legal defense and keep her out of prison?
Jen Chaney: Yeah, it seems to me that Kate wants to settle down and live a normal, responsible life off the island. She's tired of running. And that's why she doesn't want to go back.
DC: From time to time, I just wish Lost was on HBO. Like last night, when the island disappeared, someone on the chopper really needed to say, "What the (expletive) just happened?"
Jen Chaney: Man, imagine how much better Sawyer's nicknames would be.
Liz Kelly: And those intimate scenes.
Island return:: I would guess that because it's been moved, presumably via some sort of random hiding camouflage method, it's because whoever got ejected can't find it.
But why the heck does the mover HAVE to get ejected? That's what I want to know.
Jen Chaney: Could it have to do with the magnetic properties?
Favorite moment of the night to mock?: When Jack, Mr. Savior complex, makes sure he gets one of the seats on the helicopter. Way to save the world, jerk.
Liz Kelly: Well, but if he didn't go, they'd obviously do it all wrong.
Jen Chaney: Jack is a flawed man. But he will find his way.
I think the show ultimately revolves around him. If he weren't flawed, the drama wouldn't be nearly as compelling.
Flexo: Oh, I just figured out the Black Rock in the middle of the Island. Duh. The Island moved one day to a place in the ocean directly under the ship.
But now that they've moved the Island, how are they supposed to get the (much needed) air-dropped Dharma supplies?
Liz Kelly: I like that!
Anonymous: So why is Jack flying around hoping to survive another crash on the island, if Jeremy/Locke visited him a month ago? Wouldn't Jeremy/Locke be able to tell him how to get back to the island?
Liz Kelly: Not if Jeremy/Locke was himself ejected after a spin at the donkey wheel. He'd be just as lost as the rest of them.
Jen Chaney: Agreed. Locketham may know that they all have to go back but may not know how to make it happen.
Chantilly, VA: What's this buzz I hear about something significant on Walt's visitor badge when he visited Hugo at Santa Rosa's? Is there a juicy tidbit I missed? (Boy, did our little Walt grow up.)
Liz Kelly: Hmmm, just looks like a regular visitor's pass to me.
Dallas: To follow up on the Jeremy Bentham theme, which was sort of overwhelmed by all the action of the evening, I personally want to go back and review the flash forwards of last night, most of which had a reference to Jeremy Bentham, and with Locke's body at the end, I think all those bits may tie together, but they were so brief as to not gel yet. And who was the first guy that Sayid shot?
The Panopticon is an interesting concept. Back when we were wondering if the island was purgatory or something, and it was poo-poohed, maybe the island is not a spiritual purgatory but a sci-fi "correctional facility" with all the occupants being watched from above by "Jacob" a la the Panopticon, And the Oceanic 6 are now the "fugitives."
So will Locke/Bentham play the role of Inspector Javert/Marshall Sam Gerard?
Liz Kelly: I like the panopticon theory, too. But rather than a prison, I saw the island's application of that theory as being more of an experimental nature. As in someone -- let's say Jacob -- decides to populate his own personal Habitrail (the island) with a bunch of subjects (the Losties and Dharmas) to see what will happen.
It's like a super-natural "Real World."
Bethesda, MD: Did you all hear that Greg Grunberg (the pilot and also one of LindeCuse's cast of the same characters as Alias and Felicity, etc.) was supposed to make an appearance last night? I know it's not in IMDB, but I swear I heard it....
Jen Chaney: You know, I did read that. Maybe that was a false rumor.
Tunisia Hotel: Most disapointing momemt of the show--one week after they reach Penny's boat Desmond has on not one but TWO shirts (a crew neck at that!) I'm sensing bad things to come...
Liz Kelly: He had to make up for all that skin showing on Sawyer.
Jen Chaney: Penny was the one who always buttoned his shirts and dressed him properly. Now that they're back together, no more pecs on view for all to see.
Columbia Heights: Hey Folks,
The question is not "where" the island went to but "when" the island went to. I think Ben moved the island to a different point in time. Remember what Halifax said in the video about the "time traveling bunny" (another classic Lost line) - how the rabbit would appear to disappear because it was going to be transported 100 milliseconds into the future. I think that's what Ben did to the island. He moved it far enough into the future so that it was invisible to the folks in the copter. But it may reappear to the folks left behind - Farraday, and maybe Jin and Michael.
Liz Kelly: Right - though I think it may also be possible that the island can move through time and space, making it that much more confounding to find once it moves.
Kind of reminiscent of Battlestar Galactica's leaps through space to avoid the Cylons in the first season.
Jen Chaney: I also lean toward time and space, because the video specifically mentioned four-dimensional space (which includes location and time). And also because time and space at the same time is cooler.
Fairfax,VA: It doesn't seem like many of the major characters are left alive on the island? Who does Jack want to go back to save?
Liz Kelly: Juliet, Sawyer, his own sanity.
Jen Chaney: Rose, Bernard, all those randomos who show up in beach scenes but are never identified...
Liz Kelly: Randomos?
Dead Jin? Buying panda?: So was the panda purchased pre island?
I thought it was a flash forward.
Jen Chaney: Is this a joke?
Liz Kelly: I don't think so.
This might be the same person who thought Bentham looked a lot like John Locke.
The panda-purchasing episode was a flash back for Jin spliced with a flash forward for Sun. Please visit www.washingtonpost.com/lost for an analysis of that episode.
Island moving: Does the Island have a constant?
Now I can't sleep at night......
Jen Chaney: Great. My brain just exploded.
Washington, DC: Was anyone able to access the Octagon Global Recruiting Site (www.octagonglobalrecruiting.com)? All I get is a blank page, or sometimes a brown background.
And WOW. What a great wrap-up. The Sun and Jin storyline broke my heart. He can't be dead!!!
I cannot believe we have to wait til 2009 to get back to this show.
washingtonpost.com: Screen grab of the site from the invaluable Lostpedia.
Liz Kelly: I got there this morning. Basically it's just a video of the ad we saw on ABC last night and a form to sign up for Octagon's newsletter. As Jen said in this morning's analysis, smells like this summer's "Lost" game.
Alexandria, VA: Please squeeze this question in:
Is Locke the first Lostie to be killed back on the mainland?
Jen Chaney: Good question. I think that's right.
Denver, CO: So, do you think we one step closer to an explanation of the four-toed statue?
Liz Kelly: Well, maybe not so much. But give them time -- there are two whole seasons left.
20001: Jen, why are you so certain Jin died? Seems to me the only person we know who died on the freighter is Michael since he was visited by Jack's dad. Sun could just be mad at Jack due to the fact that because he insisted on leaving before Jin could make it to the helo, Jin is now stuck on the island.
Jen Chaney: Let me put it this way: I believe Sun thinks Jin is dead. And it appears that is the case.
It's always possible he jumped off the ship in time. But that would seem like sort of a lame cop-out. It's much more dramatic that he just missed the helicopter and poor Sun had to watch him die.
Liz Kelly: Right. Sun believes Jin is dead. This is what has galvanized her to take down her dad and Charles Widmore. If she believed he was alive, she would have put that energy into getting back to the island.
San Antonio, TX: So . . . . Locke had to move the island again, resulting in not being able to come back, after whatever chaos occurred once the O6 left and now he was stuck on the mainland, without use of his legs, and didn't feel the need to go on? This seems "Lost logical" as to how Locke ended up in the coffin . . . what do you ladies think?
Jen Chaney: Possible. Here's the thing about Locke moving the island -- Ben tells Jack he has to take Locke with him when they return. So if the moving-the-island rules apply, Locke wouldn't be able to go and Ben would know that.
So I am not convinced Locke necessarily moves it again. But I am open to all possibilities. Funny how you get that way when you're really tired.
Liz Kelly: Again, I'm not convinced Ben was telling the truth when he said the island mover was banished forever and ever. I mean, when has Ben ever been a reliable source of information?
Jen Chaney: Liz, was he lying about the ham? I don't care what you say, that really was a ham. And I'll bet it was really tasty!
Liz Kelly: Jen, I didn't want to upset you too much, but I think that ham was actually a radiation-enhanced Tofurky.
Edinburgh, Scotland by way of Washington, D.C.: Just some predictions:
-The show will end with time being restarted, therefore restoring to life all those who have died so far, but with everyone having some kind of knowledge of what had transpired to they may go about preventing bad things to come or fixing bad things already present in their lives.
- Penny will be killed by someone (Ben or Sayid?) and Desmond will be forced to go back to the island to find a way to save her though time travel, he will be the key therefore to the above prediction.
- Walt will return to the island with everyone else to fulfill his destiny, possibly becoming Michael Abbadon in the process (choosing his father's name for himself, and since Lost has practically zero coincidences this one makes a lot of sense).
Jen Chaney: I am with you, except on the Walt part. Especially because Abbadon's name is Matthew, I think.
But time restarting? I am thinking what you're thinking.
Liz Kelly: Right. I'm with you on all but the Abaddon thing, too.
Bethesda: Claire is dead. So are Jin and Michael.
Lost never shied away from killing beloved characters in the past. Look at the body count: Boone, Shannon, Libby, Eko, and Charlie (loved). Goodwin and Tom (liked). Ana Lucia (well...)
If the writers start wimping out on us and backing away from killing off characters just because they're popular, even if the integrity of the storytelling calls for it, that's a cop-out.
washingtonpost.com: Where do Nikki and Paulo fall on the spectrum?
Liz Kelly: As if you even have to ask? If I had a spider, producer Paul, I'd put it down your shirt right now.
Jen Chaney: I don't think they're backing away. But they're not going to stupid and kill off characters for the sake of shock value either.
Sawyer? He's an interesting character and the show would lose a lot if he were to die. Same is true of Locke, which is why I think we'll see more of him in flashes forward, backward, or whatever.
Silver Spring: Locke is dead for only one reason, and it goes along with his beliefs: because the island (or whatever power behind it) wanted him to die at that time and location. I think we'll find that Locke's death still suits the "needs" of the island.
Liz Kelly: Well, everything else does, so why not Locke's death. But perhaps the final struggle of this show will be man triumphing over the will of the super-natural island. Or at least giving it a good go.
Luau: That luau will be ruined if Ana-Lucia comes back from the dead.
Then again, we know she'd be bringing some good booze.
Jen Chaney: If Boone comes back, too? Best. Luau. Of. All. Time. (And. Space.)
Washington, D.C.: Hello,
I can't remember the exact moment, but at some point last night Kate and Sayid gave each other a really strange look. Did anyone catch that?
washingtonpost.com: Yep. After Alpert "killed" Keamy, when she helped Sayid up.
Liz Kelly: I interpreted that look to mean: "Hmm, I wonder why we're helping Alpert and now on Ben's side. Oh, that's right -- to stay alive."
Dallas TX: Locke wouldn't necessarily have to turn the donkey wheel to leave the Island. Richard Alpert knows how to travel on- and off-Island, and he has been doing just that for decades, apparently. Surely Richard would share that knowledge with his new Fearless Leader?
Liz Kelly: But were they (Alpert, etc.) doing that on the now blown-up submarine?
Hearing things in DC: When Biggie Walt went to see Hurley, did he correct Hurley and say his name was now Aaron?
Jen Chaney: Uh, what?
If he did, I totally slept through that part.
Incidentally, can I have a Biggie Shake and Biggie Fries with my Biggie Walt?
Liz Kelly: Okay, I think we need to step away from the whole "Biggie Walt" moniker. It's freaking me out. Just a little. I hereby propose we return to "Tall (Not a Ghost) Walt."
Jen Chaney: Fair enough. But now I'm hungry.
Liz Kelly: Well, this might be a good place, then to wrap things up. I'll buy you a carton of super-sized fries and everything.
Jen Chaney: Sweet. Thanks, everyone, for such great theories, questions and hilarious observations.
I am sure we will reconvene soon, for "Lost" Book Club and, of course, Comic-Con. Stay tuned for more info on both.
Liz, as always, it's been a pleasure.
Liz Kelly: Couldn't imagine it without ya, Jen.
Ugh, how mushy. Okay, let's go get those fries.