Off the Grid

Builder Mike McKechnie, of Mountain View Builders, was online Tuesday, July 1 at 11:00 a.m. ET to discuss efforts to create energy efficient, sustainable homes.

Transcript follows.

About McKechnie: Mike McKechnie began Mountain View Builders with his brother, Pete, in 1995. Since the company's conception it gradually became more environmentally friendly. MVB's goal is to create energy efficient and environmentally friendly homes that still connect to mainstream design.

In following the processes McKechnie outlines, he believes, homeowners can avoid economic crisis later, by investing in renewable sources now.

Read Toward Energy Self-Sufficiency In Some Surprisingly Simple Steps by Louisa Jaggar.

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Solar Power: I've been interested in getting solar power for my house, but have been turned off by the price (as in, I haven't been successful in getting a ballpark figure to see whether I could even afford it).

What would a ballpark figure be for adding enough solar panels to my roof to get me off the grid at least 1/2 time? The house is 3400 sq. feet if that matters. Are there any federal (or state - Virginia) programs that are available to offset the cost?

Also, I've heard of shingles that have micro-solar panels built into them. Is this an urban legend or are they for real? If so, what's the barrier to widespread market acceptance?

Mike McKechnie: Installed solar PV costs around $10,000 per kilowatt. In order to determine how much solar PV you would need, you must first determine how much electricity you are currently using. The best way to do that is to get 24 months worth of usage history from your utility provider.

There are federal incentives, and a lot of states offer incentives too. Check out www.dsireusa.org to find incentives listed for Virginia.

Solar shingles are, and have been, available. The main drawback is that they have lower efficiencies than solar PV panels and there is more intensive electrical wiring involved, which drives the cost up. Check out nanotechnology, a method that has been developed to create solar panels, using a type of ink and a printer, using a flexible membrane. That membrane can then be installed on any available surface of the house. This is the technology we think is going to help make solar PV more available to the mainstream public.

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Hedgesville, W.V.: Can you operate a 3,000 sq.ft. home year round on solar? Do you need to manually switch when stored power is used up?

Mike McKechnie: It is possible to operate any size house on solar panels but the larger the house, the more cost prohibitive it is to do so. It might be better, with a 3000 ft2 house, to consider a small PV array to mitigate electric usage and install a solar water heating system which is currently the most cost effective form of solar energy.

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Winchester, Va.: For radiant flooring, typicaly would it be the heating and cooling contractor you would contact?

Mike McKechnie: Yes. Typically, your heating and cooling subcontractor would be your first choice and there are also plenty of plumbing subcontractors installing radiant systems.

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Great Cacapon, W.Va.: Since I use propane won't that stay cheaper than oil so why should I worry? Also, I am not in a place where there is a lot of sun or wind-should I bother?

Mike McKechnie: My brother, Pete, has no opportunity for wind or solar at his house, no good exposure for solar hot water, but he feels like he should bother because he wants something to be left for them. ANY amount of alternative energy usage, or conservation, is better for all of us than nothing.

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Bethesda, Md.: What is the attitude of local zoning boards towards alternative energy technologies, i.e. wind, solar, geothermal, etc? Does the federal government provide any relief the way satellite dishes are except from local HOA or zoning restrictions?

Mike McKechnie: The attitude of our local zoning board (in this area and areas close by) has been great in terms of renewable energy technology. People everywhere are starting to understand that we need better sources for energy than traditional fossil fuels. It is everyone's job to work with the local boards to ensure the acceptance and smooth transition of renewable energy systems residentially and commercially. There have been some precedences set in California and Colorado to ensure that available energy above your home (wind/solar) stays available to you, but only on the state level as far as I know.

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Potomac, Md.: I was surprised that in your discussion of heat pumps you did not mention ground source heat pumps which, while more costly to install, are far more efficient that conventional air source heat pumps.

Mike McKechnie: We believe that a tighter envelope that can reduce the heating and cooling load by 40 to 50 percent, along with proper passive solar exposure makes the initial expense of geothermal unnecessary for smaller houses with tight envelopes. The current levels of efficiency standard air source heat pumps are reaching are more than adequate to comfortable heat and cool these types of houses. We also believe that certain applications are ideal for geothermal, such as larger homes and public facilities like schools, hospitals and so forth.

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Lansdowne, Va.: Will the home owner receive any federal of local insentives for using renewable energy applications?

Mike McKechnie: Yes. There are federal incentives for various kinds of renewable energy projects. You can view a full list of incentives at energystar.gov. The two biggest ones are for solar PV and solar hot water.

For local incentives, check www.dsireusa.org and click on your state to see.

GREAT NEWS - today is the first day for Maryland's new grant incentive program for solar and wind.

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Hague 22469: Hello, I would like to add a solar hot water heater to my south facing house, similar to the ones you find on almost every roof in Japan. However, I am unable to find a dealer or installer of solar hot water heaters. Moreover, finding any dealer/installer of solar panels, batteries, converters seems difficult. How come? Any suggestions?

Mike McKechnie: Check out www.findsolar.com for installers in your area. However, if you're in our area you can always call us and we can take care of your installation for you.

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Silver Spring, MD: I know that solar and wind are 'sexy' but isn't the first thing to make your house incredibly energy efficient? At $10k per kilowatt of solar, it seems silly to have a 10-year old refrigerator, only 12 inches of insulation in the attic and home sealing typical for a 50-year old house.

Also, do you see any way to get mainstream homebuilders to make highly efficient homes without drastically upgrading the building codes? Fancy kitchens and baths sell houses (heart) but energy efficiency not so much (head only). Ads for new homes, what I see on TV and comments by real estate people back this up.

Mike McKechnie: Any reputable solar PV installer will recommend, before anything else, reducing the overall load your house requires. This would include everything you listed in your question, as well as more currently known upgrades -- such as compact fluorescent bulbs. Solar hot water is a great first step since heating hot water is one of the main energy users in a home.

We are in the process of trying to reach more and more people, home builders, home owners, building subcontractors, etc. to get the word out and appeal to mainstream home builders and home owners, they will spend their money on things that will save them energy and not so much on fancy kitchens and bathrooms. We are in the building business and we come up against this hurdle every week.

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Alexandria, Va.: You answered $10K per kilowatt used. Is that Kilowatts per week/month/year?

Mike McKechnie: My apologies. The system is rated by kilowatt hour, just as usage is marked on your utility bill, so a 3kw system has the possibility of making 3kw per hour on sunny days.

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$10k/kW: So - at one kW of solar capacity, how many actual kWh is that per month at the latitude of DC? Obviously many fewer kWh in the winter than in the summer.

Mike McKechnie: Our area is rated at approximately 5 to 6 hours peak sunlight per day, averaged over the course of the year. A 3kw system at peak output on a perfect month has the potential to produce approximately 540kw hours.

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Washington, D.C.: I am getting ready to remodel a small, historic house. I would like to go "green" as much as possible. Is there a book(s) or other sources where I could start learning about the possibilities and costs - plus be prepared to convince my architect if he balks at the idea.

Mike McKechnie: We have assembled a page of important links that we think will be most helpful to prospective home owners. You can see that list at www.mountainviewbuilders.com/links2.htm

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Great Cacapon, W.Va.: With the recent storms and loss of power I've been reminded to invest in a generator. Are there any whole house generators that use renewal resources/solar power?

Mike McKechnie: Yes. There are solar generators that can be used for standby power for basic/small amounts of energy for a couple of days. These systems use solar PV panels and batteries and tie directly into the grid, so that they make energy for you and spin the meter backwards when the power is on. A very good system.

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Silver Spring, Md.: Is it cost effective to convert a standard hot water heater to a wall pack unit in a house that 60+ years old? Are there any special considerations to be aware of?

Mike McKechnie: Solar hot water heaters are your best choice. If, for some reason, that won't work for you, an on-demand hot water heater that is propane fired will take care of your entire house easily and is well worth the upgrade.

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Frederick, Md.: Are there any opportunities for economies of scale or scope through collective activity, such as a group of new homes sharing heating or waste disposal systems?

Mike McKechnie: Yes. We believe that when allowed by state and local authorities, using shared water wells and shared sewage systems can make a great deal of sense and be less destructive to the overall community ecosystem. We would also like to work on the possibility of shared solar electric backup systems for that type of community. I am sure there are many other creative ways to use economics of scale to everyone's advantage.

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Pellet Stove?: We're on propane right now - I'm not sure what the previous poster was talking about. Propane is expensive and is tied to the price of oil - it's only going to get more expensive to heat our house next year. We're thinking about buying a pellet stove to supplement our heating costs. What are your thoughts on that?

Mike McKechnie: Pellet stoves and wood stoves, we think, are good options. Wood in North America is a renewable energy resource that, when properly managed, should continue to be part of home heating.

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Solar in this area: Let's go back to the basics--Is home-based solar really viable in this area? We have a fair amount of cloud cover, especially in the winter. And a lot of areas have a fair number of trees around. In a place like Arizona, with year round sun and not many tall trees I can see it being viable. But around here, does the typical home get enough sun exposure to make solar energy anything other than an expensive feel-good?

Mike McKechnie: Solar power is not only viable in this area, but a lot better that coal-fired electricity which is what most people on the Eastern seaboard live with. While the identical system installed in AZ will create more electricity that one installed in this area, and therefore have a quicker payback period, we believe that payback periods are not necessarily the best way to approach alternative energy. As consumers, we vote every time we spend a dollar. By voting with our dollars to install solar PV, in areas that are not the MOST ideal, we are also making a statement that we can no longer condone mining methods that remove entire mountain tops and poison whole valleys. Your stockbroker would tell you it's a terrible financial decision. But, your grandkids will thank you.

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Washington, D.C.: Are you aware of any solar power grills? Charcoal/lighter fluid and propane foul the air during the summer grilling season.

Mike McKechnie: I don't know about grills themselves, but it is very easy to find solar ovens online. Check out realgoods.com.

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Arlington, Va.: Do you have any recommendations for quality solar companies that serve N. Va.?

Mike McKechnie: Contact Standard Solar: 301-349-2871. This is the company we subcontracted to do our solar PV installation at the Mountain View Solar House.

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Toms Brook, Va.: Hello! I find that kids have a better grasp of the reality that conservation isn't just a money issue, but a "Save the planet" issue.How can older people, more set in their ways, be convinced?

Mike McKechnie: Kids are GREAT sources of inspiration and are extremely interested in renewable energy and many of the second graders that I have spoken to already think our electricity comes from lightning and the sun. Just like the generation of young people at the beginning of the computer explosion we experienced 20 or so years ago, the children of today will be pioneers in this second wave of alternative energy thought in this country. If nothing else, we older folks should let these young people forge their own renewable future. Of course, it would be best if we helped them.

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Washington, D.C.: We have a steam radiator system. When you talk about solar-powered water, is it feasible to tie it into the whole house heating system, or do you just mean like a hot water heater?

Mike McKechnie: We have been speaking about solar hot water in reference to domestic hot water. Domestic hot water is defined as water used for showering, cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. It IS possible and we are currently working on systems that use the sun to supplement home heating. Mostly with radiant heat.

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Alexandria, Va.: Hi, I have a typical, split-level house, built in the early '60s, on a tiny plot. We are not thinking of moving, but would love to upgrade our house to be as energy-efficient as possible. Is it possible to retrofit an older house? Does your company do it, or do you know of any contractors? Thank you!

Mike McKechnie: A lot of people are in the same situation as you. Anything that you can do to save the amount of electricity that your house uses (your energy footprint) is a great starting point. This would include light bulbs, energy star rated appliances, high efficiency heating and cooling, and super insulation. There is also a foam product that can be used to super seal the house. Our company does "energy makeovers" that will save a little bit of energy and we have been discussing adding a complete second interior wall to existing homes, which would be an extensive remodeling project for people who are interested in reducing their energy footprint significantly.

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Big Sky Ranch, Valle, Ariz.: Has fuel cell technology progressed to the point of becoming a viable option for residential electricity generation?

Mike McKechnie: To our knowledge, fuel cell technology has not reached a point of viability for residential electricity generation in this country. Unfortunately, fuel cells are more like highly efficient batteries than generation systems. They can store a tremendous amount of energy, but it takes slightly more energy to charge them. We believe that when fuel cells can be charged using only renewable energy sources (like the sun or wind) they can become a part of a new energy structure in our country.

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Richmond, Va.: We are going to be moving out into the country in a few years and building on some land we have. This will be our new and (hopefully) our retirement home in the future so we'll be starting from scratch. We think this would be a good opportunity to build a really efficient home. Are there builders who specialize in that? How much more expensive would it be?

Mike McKechnie: We talk to people in your situation weekly. I applaud your intention to build a really efficient home. Keep it small, make the envelope extremely tight, properly ventilate the space and look for a builder in your area that agrees with this approach. If you can't find one, we are hired regularly as consultants to educate builders about these processes and we are anxious to get the knowledge into the building community at large. If you follow the recommendations above, your house could actually be cheaper to build and could operate on 50% less power than your neighbors' houses, before you introduce renewable energy systems.

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Potomac, Md.: Would changing the fiberglass insulation in the attic and replacing it with sprayed foam insulation be an effective way in a remodel to help the heating/ac system to work better?

Mike McKechnie: The two-part spray foam is a great product to be used (sparingly because of its expense) for certain applications only. In your attic and every other attic in the country, more is better when it comes to blown-in insulation. Pick the product you're most comfortable with and add another foot. This is a great place to start, and is very very cost effective.

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Potomac, Md.: You talk abour the double wall system with 3 layers of insulation. How does that compare to a sprayed on foam insulation?

Mike McKechnie: Our double wall system has an R-value of R-40. Any way you can achieve a higher R-value, that's cost effective, is great. We learned about the double wall system in Colorado at a Habitat for Humanity presentation. It was presented as the most cost effective way to get the highest R-value. We have built all different types of wall systems and have priced them out.

In order to achieve an R-40 wall with sprayed in foam insulation, it would be in my opinion cost-prohibitive (possibly three to four times the cost of the triple layers of batt insulation). If the concern is air infiltration through batt insulation, we haven't had that problem with the double wall system at R-40.

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N.H.: We have a two-hundred year old house in (cold) New Hampshire that has little if any insulation. To conserve heat this coming winter, we want to insulate and make it very tight. Should we rip out the inside walls and have sprayed-on foam insulation, or remove the outside clapboards and use rigid foam panels and then replace the clapboards? What is the cost difference and which process will result in the tightest home? Should we do anything to the old stone/dirt basement to insulate that, too, or just leave it alone?

Mike McKechnie: I would think that in a house old enough to have no insulation, other upgrades might be advisable ad well. To me, it would make more sense to remove the interior walls and insulate from inside as well as being able to inspect/update the electric and/or plumbing.

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Winchester Va.: Mike, does the Geothermal heat pump need a back up system at a certain cold temperature like the outside air pump needs?

Mike McKechnie: No. It truly does not need a backup system like an air to air system does. Most of the geothermal systems have backup strip heat, but when working properly, it should never turn on.

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Washington, D.C.: Are there inexpensive wind turbines for home use?

Mike McKechnie: Yes; there are. Between magazines such as Home Power and the Real Goods Sourcebook, there are many options. Obviously, the less expensive wind turbines will be rated to produce less electricity.

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Arlington, Va.: My understanding is that building a home with energy-efficient measures adds about 3-5% to the cost of the house, which is often made up for in lower energy bills within a couple of years. Why isn't this the norm at this point?

Mike McKechnie: I believe in parts of the building industry it is starting to become the norm. What we have found over the course of the past ten years is that many consumers are aware of things that builders sometimes are not. In order for this to become totally the norm, all the consumer needs to do is their own homework and demand from builders that these things are implemented. We believe that it is the consumers trying to find better and more efficient ways to do things who will drive the building industry into more energy efficient and sustainable building practices. Vote with your dollars.

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Folsom, Calif.: I am interested in simple actions that will have impact. Would you cover rain harvesting for landscape irrigation for the average homeowner? Also, solar hot water heaters are interesting to me but I'm not really sure of the cost benefit. Thanks, Anne.

Mike McKechnie: We like simple actions that are initiated by the homeowner. And yes, rain harvesting/water collection from your roof system retained and then used at a later date for landscaping/vegetable gardens is a GREAT and easy idea. It doesn't cost much and everyone can do it.

Solar hot water heaters are extremely cost effective. The average payback period is approximately 3 to 7 years, which is considerably less than the lifespan of the equipment -- which means that this system will be paid for and you will now own a system that generates energy for you. You now own this system as opposed to what you're currently doing -- which is essentially paying rent to the utility companies. Invest in renewable energy systems because it is an extremely attractive investment.

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Glenview, Ill. What solar power options are available for attached townhouses, where only one owner wants to go to the expense? E.g., would Pv panels be an option??

Mike McKechnie: Depending on any covenants in the development, there is no particularly good reason solar PV or solar hot water wouldn't work just fine on a townhouse roof, as long as the appropriate southern exposure is attainable.

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McLean, Va. How does one balance adequate ventilation with super sealing in a house. I know that both are important, but from studying passive solar designs, could never figure out the proper balance.

Mike McKechnie: Excellent question. In the late 70s, houses were built extremely tight, but they were not properly ventilated. The importance of building tight and properly ventilating go hand in hand. We use energy recovery ventilators, also known as heat recovery ventilators to exchange air from the outside to the inside, while minimizing the amount of energy that is lost. We follow an ASHRAE standard for commercial buildings. In simple terms, the quality of air that you would find in your local library is much better than the air you would find in your average home. With the use of an ERV/HRV, a well-designed, super-tight passive solar house will have superior air quality. Most reputable HVAC contractors should know how to install an ERV/TRV.

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New York, N.Y.: Any energy saving suggestions for multi-unit, 100 plus, apartment buildings? Solar panels on roof or sides of buildings for example.

Mike McKechnie: Start with the largest energy user - your domestic hot water. Go solar with domestic hot water on the roof top/southern exposed side of the building.

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Arlington, Va.: I hope people realize that they aren't necessarily being green if they knock down a smaller and older single family home to build a "green design" mansion. If older/draftier small house used 10 "units" of energy a month and newer bigger "greener" home uses 20, (not even counting the footprint of landfilling the old house and manufacturing new materials for the new one) then you're still consuming more in the interest of just wanting a bigger house instead of the perfectly liveable smaller one.

Mike McKechnie: I would completely agree with you. By my estimation, the words green and mansion should never be used in the same sentence.

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D.C. What options, if any, do renters have if they want to gain some of their electricity through renewable resources?

Mike McKechnie: I read a story in Home Power magazine approximately 2 years ago. It was about a couple who were currently renting a house and wanted solar power as part of their lifestyle. The landlord agreed to let them install a PV system and also agreed to let them take it with them when they left that house. Ultimately, anyone who rents and wants to be greener, can at least approach their landlord and discuss options. You never know; your landlord may be more than open to the possibilities.

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Columbia, Md.: What, and how far away are we, is the price point (for delivered electricity) at which it becomes economical for all new homes to be built with, and older homes retro-fitted with, solar panels? As a secondary question once we start nearing that point is there any room for economy of scale (and perhaps technological improvements) to reduce the price of solar panels?

Mike McKechnie: As soon as the price of oil gets a little higher, and renewable energy systems become more popular and their prices drop some, we will have hit the turning point and solar and wind power will become the norm. There are also some highly promising technologies including the previously mentioned technologies whereby solar panels are literally printed. I believe the figure I heard is that it's roughly 1/3 the cost compared to standard solar panels.

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Alexandria, Va. Solar powered attic fan - I was thinking of getting one of these to pull the hot air out of the attic on a split level home. Are these of any use? Are they worth the $300 price tag?

Mike McKechnie: Solar powered attic fans are GREAT. Once again, every house should have one or two. The $300 price tag will save you money on your heating AND cooling bills and I estimate it will pay for itself in one year or less. Don't forget to ensure that your attic insulation is sufficient (24 to 30 inches deep) before installing one of these fans.

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Washington, D.C.: I like the idea of putting solar panels on my roof, but my house is situated under several fairly large trees that cast a fair amount of shade on my roof throughout the day. Great for shade and keeping my house cool, but not so great for getting enough sun to power solar panels. What, if any, are my alternatives? Or is it still worth considering solar panels on the roof? Thanks.

Mike McKechnie: In your situation, solar PV might very well not be a good idea. With the technology of evacuated tubes as a source for solar hot water, even in a shady location can significantly reduce hot water costs. It would be well worth your time to look into that as a solar option.

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College Station, Tex.: What do you think about mandatory energy ratings for existing and/or new homes? If homes were required to obtain a rating (like the MPG rating on autos), would this lead to more energy efficient homes?

Mike McKechnie: We think this is a GREAT idea. We've been talking about this for several years. All houses should have a kilowatt/year sticker (as an example) on them. Perhaps if they did, the production-built mega houses would go the way that the SUVs finally appear to be going now.

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Mike McKechnie: Thanks to everyone who participated in this online forum. We had some excellent questions from you and would love to continue this forum and have asked the online editor for an opportunity to do this again in the near future. Remember if we want the world to STAY green, we're all going to have to GO green.

I'm sorry we couldn't get to all of your questions. If you have a question that has not been answered, please feel free to email us at mtviewbuilders@verizon.net. We would also like to extend an invitation to everyone to the Mountain View Solar Open House on July 12 from 11am to 4pm in beautiful Berkeley Sprins, W.Va. There you can meet us, and all of the people (vendors, subs, employees etc.) who worked so diligently to complete the Solar House. You will learn more about the technologies employed in the house, such as solar PV, solar hot water, and check out our 100 ft wind turbine. Tour the house and learn about green building practices and munch on yummy food, catered by the award-winning Lot 12 Public House. Please visit www.mountainviewsolar.org for complete details.

Thank so much,

Mike & Pete (and all of us at Mountain View Builders)

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