Politics and Infidelity

Key Bridge Therapy & Meditation Center director Emily Brown, who works with couples, individuals, and families regarding the underlying issues in marriage, divorce and betrayal, was online Monday, Aug. 11 at noon ET to discuss John Edwards's admission of an affair, the stresses politics and campaign place on a marriage and family, and why these high-profile scandals keep happening.

The transcript follows.

Brown is the author of "Patterns Of Infidelity And Their Treatment" and "Affairs: A Guide to Working Through the Repercussions of Infidelity."

____________________

Emily Brown: Hello everyone! I'm Emily Brown of the Key Bridge Therapy & Mediation Center. As a marriage and family therapist I see a lot of affairs. today we're going to talk about affairs and politics, bouncing off the Edwards situation.

_______________________

Fairfax, Va.: Thinking about Edwards's admission the last few days, I guess I have difficulty understanding the mindset of someone who begins and continues an extramarital affair, especially when from all appearances he had a happy and loving marriage with an incredible lady in Elizabeth Edwards. If you love your spouse, why would you go down such a path?

Emily Brown: Sounds like so many people knew of his situation that he was forced to admit it. Most affairs are a long time in the making. With politicians, they are constantly being asked to prove themselves -- elections, voters requests, etc. They have to have a great determination to be successful. This may be tied to not feeling good about one's self when growing up. An affair strokes the ego, makes one feel chosen (if not loved).

_______________________

Washington: I think the press is taking an odd angle on the Edwards story. If it is as he says, the affair started and ended in 2006, and his wife knew about it in 2006. Questions about how she's reacting, etc., should be framed through that lens -- how have you rebuilt your marriage, if indeed you have; did you wife know you went to see her, and how did she feel about that; do you still have contact with the woman, etc. -- rather than the current crop of questions that seem to feel like because we've just discovered this now, it's happening now. Of course, it may be that we don't know the full truth here and it wasn't started and ended in 2006, but is ongoing.

Emily Brown: Affairs are a symptom of something gone wrong in the marriage and/or with the individual's sense of self. Often both spouses play a role in setting the stage for an affair by not addressing issues that arise, or by fighting rather then addressing issues.

_______________________

Washington: The news of Edwards's affair absolutely broke my heart. What do you the implications of this are on the Democratic party and Edwards's future as a politician?

Emily Brown: I think Edwards days in politics are over. He has confessed to the affair, but my reaction to the "Nightline" show is that he's holding back a lot. The initial segment of his confession seemed real, but the last part just felt like a lot is hidden. And, as I tell clients, it's important to pay attention to your gut reaction when you think something is going on.

_______________________

Washington: As a spouse who is trying to rebuild my marriage after discovering my husband's infidelity (with a great deal of counseling and help), John Edwards's assertions of why he did it rang true -- a feeling of invincibility, narcissism, flattered by the attention, etc. What did you think of his explanation?

Emily Brown: I think his assertions probably are true, but I thin part of the story is still missing. It usually takes counseling after an affair to work through the pain of the affair itself and to address the underlying issues. AAMFT (American Association of Marriage and Family Therapists) has a Web site called TherapistLocator.net for those wanting to find help in dealing with an affair

_______________________

Arlington, Va.: I'm reminded of Alice Longworth's statement that Washington is full of successful men, and the women they married years ago. I imagine that the men love being fawned over by other women because the woman at home doesn't always give him the hero worship that he gets outside.

Emily Brown: Some truth to that - but why did she want to marry a "successful man"? Spouses pick each other for a variety of reasons -- a good book for looking at that is "Are You the One for Me".

_______________________

Rockville, Md.: Some have suggested that a straying spouse be forgiven, and that one case of indiscretion should not destroy a marriage. However, wouldn't this encourage the strayer to repeat his/her infidelity, with the belief that forgiveness would be repeated because the destruction of a marriage is a truly painful and difficult situation?

Emily Brown: Forgiveness is not appropriate until the couple has worked through their issues, and the betrayed partner is ready to forgive. This means that the issues that they haven't addressed have to be thoroughly addressed. These might include learning how to talk about difficult issues, learning how to be emotionally intimate (instead of fighting), integrating two parts of the self that have been separate: the rational do-it-right self and the emotional self. Or if sexual addiction is part of the picture (lots and lots of one-night stands or short affairs), that needs to be dealt with before real forgiveness is in order.

_______________________

Los Alamitos, Calif.: Why are the sex lives of politicians considered newsworthy at all? I don't want to know about anyone else's sex life, and this unseemly obsession that our puritan country has about the matter reflects poorly on us, I think. Clinton's "affairs" never should even have made it into the press (and of course, if he had merely admitted to them at the outset, events might have gone quite differently, but that's another matter). Edwards had an affair. So what? That's between him and his wife. He lied about it? Of course he did! That's the most natural reaction. But he shouldn't even have had to comment. Enough already. Let's move on!

Emily Brown: I think why this gets so much attention in the news is because these are people we want to trust - they are people who make important decisions that affect our lives. When they turn out to be dishonest, we are not only disappointed, but we can't trust them at all.

It's sort of the same for the betrayed spouse -- a lie this big is major, and the issues will take a while to resolve, and that's with help from a competent therapist (check TherapistLocator.net). Trustworthiness has to be reestablished.

_______________________

Upper Marlboro, Md.: As a 20-year-old male exploring the world of "serious" relationships, I can't help but continually question the prospect of fidelity. It seems that everywhere I look a new instance of faithlessness is revealed. I believe in my heart that fidelity is possible and should be strived for, but I'm becoming increasingly cynical as I age. ... In your experience as a counselor, have you found instances of "true love"? Is it something that exists, or is it a pipe dream? Are we simply animals wired to go after anything that moves? I hope not ... but when even your political hero decides to step out on a (cancer-stricken) wife, you start to lose hope...

Emily Brown: Yes, there are really solid relationships, but that requires two grown-ups. Seems like playtime is encouraged for way too long in this society. And with the current overprotection of children by parents, I have questions about whether these children will ever be able to be grownup enough to have a solid relationship.

_______________________

Portsmouth, Va.: In light of Mrs. Edward's struggle with cancer, do you think her situation somehow created a strange justification for his unfaithfulness to her?

Emily Brown: Yes, I think that maybe Edwards was afraid of losing his wife and defended against that upcoming loss with the affair. I wonder about whether he had some significant losses in early childhood that make it hard for him to deal with loss. I also wonder about early childhood experiences that are behind his drive to be successful as a way of healing some early wounds.

_______________________

Herndon, Va.: Personally I think most people cheat at least once during a marriage. I'm single and travel a great deal on business trips. A lot of stuff goes on.

Emily Brown: A lot of people cheat, but not everyone does. Again, cheating is a symptom of a deeper problem. There are some very solid marriages where neither spouse has cheated. However if you're inclined to cheat, business travel certainly provides opportunities.

_______________________

Chesterfield: You seem awfully forgiving. I was brought up to accept accountability for one's own choices.

Emily Brown: I'm not necessarily forgiving -- I think accountability is very important. With my clients I forestall premature forgiveness, and I help them learn better ways of relating to each other -- their current patterns are not working, not allowing intimacy. And as a marriage and family therapist, it is not my role to forgive -- that is something for the betrayed and betrayer to deal with, but only when they've resolve their issues and are on a new footing with each other, of honesty and accountability

_______________________

"Affairs are a symptom of something gone wrong in the marriage and/or with the individual's sense of self": Statistically, most men cheat. Do most men have a problems with their marriages or sense of self, or is our species burdened with DNA that makes us promiscuous?

Emily Brown: These days men and women seem to be cheating at about the same rate. Women probably didn't have the same opportunities to cheat in the past. I don't think it's DNA. I think it's more related to old unresolved "baggage" from childhood: abuse, neglect, etc.

Which suggests that we need to focus on better parenting.

_______________________

Chapel Hill, N.C.: It was my wife who chose to end our marriage this way -- she refused to stop seeing her lover after discovery. The major thing is that the offender has to be willing to establish trust in the relationship by being absolutely honest, with sensitivity. If the Edwardses can reestablish trust, then leave them alone. Some of our best presidents have had affairs -- from our founding fathers to Roosevelt to Eisenhower to Kennedy to Reagan to Clinton and of course John McCain. Perhaps marital fidelity has nothing to do with good governance, and thus should not be part of the reporting.

Emily Brown: I agree with you that the betraying partner has to be willing to establish trust, etc.

However I think any betrayal of trust by someone in the public eye sends ripples of fear through the public: If this happens with someone prominent, it could happen to me, or Can I believe anybody?

_______________________

Richmond, Va.: What are your credentials? LCSW? Psychiatrist? Psychologist?

Emily Brown: I'm an LCSW, and a member of American Association of Marriage and Family Therapists. Been working with marriage and family issues for about 30 years, and have written two books on affairs. The one for the general public is "Affairs, A Guide to Working Through the Repercussions of Infidelity."

_______________________

Washington: I notice that you're suggesting Edwards' longing for success (in politics, with women, etc.) largely is because of his supposed childhood shortcomings/insecurities. Care to elaborate a bit more on this? As in, what would make a successful man need to cheat on his wife to gain success? Also, what do you think about a longing to get caught (found out)?

Emily Brown: I'm suggesting that this might be behind Edwards affair - it's often behind the betraying spouse's affair. Examples of other affairs:

Alcoholic parent who was nasty toward the child or who was so drunk that essentially he or she wasn't present; neglect or abandonment; abuse by parent or others -- physical or verbal; constant criticism; witnessing abuse of siblings; etc.

_______________________

Washington: How does a presidential candidate sleep at night without worrying about these things coming to light?

Emily Brown: Compartmentalize. Many people pay attention only to their rational self and ignore their emotional self. The rational self can justify and rationalize anything. Including the fact that the affair may surface. However many of those having an affair do worry that it will surface, but they feel ashamed, are afraid the spouse will kick them out, etc., so they say nothing and lie low.

_______________________

Anonymous: My problem with Edwards wasn't that he cheated, but his repeated lying. Why is it so hard for people to take responsibility for there actions? If you don't want people to think you are a cheater, the easiest thing would be to not cheat on your wife. Seems simple enough to me. It seems that there is a sense of entitlement in this country, where we feel we can do anything we want or make all the mistakes we want, but no one wants to accept responsibility for the choices they made (see housing crisis, Iraq war, Mike Vick, etc.). If our leaders can't accept responsibility for their actions, how can we expect the members of our society to?

Emily Brown: Very good comment.

_______________________

New York: Although we have had divorces in the family (both brothers), our marriage has lasted more than 27 years, and each of our parents' marriages have lasted more than 58 years. Doesn't being in/running for public office, running a corporation, etc., take a lot time and energy, with little free time left over? Plus, a spouse and family make reasonable demands on your remaining time. What time and energy is left for outside hanky-panky?

Emily Brown: People always have choices to make about how they use their time. Work, family, etc take time but there is always a way to have an affair if someone intends to do so -- lunchtime, a "meeting" scheduled after work, "coming home from the office a bit late tonight," etc.

_______________________

Edwards says he doesn't love his paramour: Why did he feel the need to say this? If true, doesn't saying there was no feeling make him look worse -- psychologically if not politically? Do women feel better if the man said he never loved the other woman?

Emily Brown: Yes, women want to feel that their spouse loves only them. I think many men feel similarly. But saying he didn't love the third party doesn't actually make the spouse feel better.

_______________________

I think it's more related to old unresolved "baggage" from childhood: abuse, neglect, etc. : No -- it's a deliberate choice, not an urge we can't resist. The incidence of cheating is far higher than that of childhood abuse or neglect, so your excuse is insufficient.

Emily Brown: Yes, it's a choice. But old baggage can influence choices. And everyone at some point makes a bad choice -- some bad choices don't do much damage, but others do.

_______________________

Naples, Fla.: I have had several sex partners because my wife just hates sex. Men need sex all their lives because that is the way we are wound (built). My wife has no need for sex and is a very cold person. The only reason we married is because she became pregnant and trapped me with a family. I have had to beg her for sex all my life. We have had sex a few times in the past ten years. I am almost 70 years old. I find many women eager to have sex just for the sexual feeling...

Emily Brown: I'm wondering why you've stayed so long in what you describe as an unsatisfying marriage. I hope you can find something positive in it since you're still there.

_______________________

Anonymous: I just want to know why they think they can get away with it. Or do they want to get caught? The outright lying -- it didn't happen -- followed by a confession ... I don't get it.

Emily Brown: Some betraying spouses want to get caught -- they want to get it over with and deal with what they need to deal with and they don't know how to do it without the spouse catching them. Others don't want to get caught -- they hope to hide it forever. Usually this is not successful. Something surfaces -- usually not this dramatically with people who are not in the limelight, but it is an explosion within the marriage.

_______________________

Washington: "Faithfulness" is an institution created by the Judeo-Christian theism that dominates this country. Get over it. We're monkeys, we have instincts, and we sometimes submit to them. This puritanical one-mate-for-life ideal is highly suspect.

Emily Brown: When people marry they make a commitment. If their commitment is to be monogamous, they should be sufficiently grown up to follow through on this. Some couples agree not to be monogamous.

_______________________

Southwest Nebraska: It would seem that politicians have an extra amount of temptation. Wasn't it Kissinger who said something about power being the ultimate aphrodisiac?

Emily Brown: Yes, politicians have lots of temptations. The Chandra Levy case is a good example. And I believe Kissinger was right. It's as if power will heal all.

_______________________

Richmond, Va.: I cannot understand how Edwards or any other politician convinces themselves that they will not get caught, or that when they do they won't be another Gary Hart. Is any fling worth a career, or the embarrassment and hurt to your family? Is it because you have to have an enormous ego to be a successful politician and to think you will succeed where others have failed?

Emily Brown: Because of their position, they think they can (are entitled to?) get away with it. And because they have unaddressed issues that drive them to "fill themselves up" in this way

_______________________

Syracuse, N.Y.: More a comment than a question. I was the betrayed party in an affair that happened many years ago. At the time I chose to reconcile and work things out. What I did not do was take care of my own emotions (hurt, anger), which led to a breakdown of sorts a couple of years ago. Now with help, I'm getting better. When you are dealing with your clients, do you try to make sure that these emotions are dealt with, or is truly getting over it next to impossible?

Emily Brown: I definitely work with clients around the pain and other emotions that surface when an affair is discovered. A great many people don't pay attention to their emotional self, so part of my work is helping them learn to do so. When you pay attention to your emotions, such as hurt, sadness, powerlessness, you are much more able to sense when something is going on and to address it. I also work with my clients about how to address it. Even though you're angry, attacking your spouse doesn't work. Anger is a way of staying away from your deeper feelings. Sharing your deeper emotion with your spouse, such as saying "I feel hurt," is much more powerful.

_______________________

Emily Brown: I've enjoyed "talking" with you all. We'll see what happens next with Edwards. Keep your eyes open about power and the underside of not feeling good enough about one's self.

And if you're one of the parties in an affair, or thinking about an affair, you might want to contact AAMFT's Web site.

_______________________

washingtonpost.com: Upcoming Discussion: Fallout From and Coverage of Edwards Affair (washingtonpost.com, 2 p.m. ET today)

_______________________

Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions. washingtonpost.com is not responsible for any content posted by third parties.