Lost Book Club: 'Slaughterhouse-Five'

A Monthly Dissection of the Books That Matter to 'Lost'-ophiles

Kurt Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse-Five" shares some remarkable parallels with "Lost's" finest hour from last season, "The Constant." Try not to be unstuck in time at 2 p.m. ET, Friday Oct. 3 when we convene to discuss what we've learned.

Submit your questions, comments and convoluted theories either before or during the discussion.

For more "Lost," visit post.com's "Lost" Hub for show-by-show analyses,"Lost" Madness results and to review last year's book club selections.

Liz Kelly's day job is asCelebritologyblogger, while Jen Chaney presides asMovieseditrix. Both consider "Lost"-watching a passion.

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Liz Kelly: Afternoon. Like a true Tralfamadorian, I can see this entire hour's chat all at once and there's some good stuff coming up, so go grab your glasses, your worn copy of "Slaughterhouse 5," your encyclopedic knowledge of "Lost" and, above all, your thoughts on how Vonnegut's best-known work might help to inform our "Lost" mythology.

Jen Chaney: I committed a total book club party foul: Left the book at home. (D'oh!) But I wrote down some notes. Personally, I think "Slaughterhouse" is one of the most "Lost"-esque of the books we've read. Every page seems to have some kind of connection. Plus, it's just a fantastic read.

While we're talking about the book, I'd also be curious to know how many of you are rewatching the "Lost" episodes on Sci-Fi or G4. I must confess, I got bored during "Heroes" the other night and switched over to "Lost" on Sci-Fi. I know, predictable of me, right?

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Alexandria, Va.: What happened to Slaughterhouses 1-4?

Liz Kelly: Well, to be ridiculously literal, I would assume they were vaporized in the fire-bombing of Dresden.

I'm sure that's the answer you were seeking.

Jen Chaney: I thought they got vaporized when Demond turned the fail-safe key.

Worlds colliding....

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I think I cried...: So this is one of those books that I've wanted to read for over five years. Just never got around to it -- the time fracture, Billy's captivity by the trafalmagorians (sorry if I spelled that wrong don't have the book with me) all hit me in a very specific way

In terms of LOST I was surprised at how many parallels there were. Not only in terms of "The Constant" but also the similarities of watching Sawyer and Kate in the cage vs Billy and Montana in a cage.

I also was struck at how the aliens seem to know exactly what is going to happen, much like Dharma and Ben all seem to always know what is going to happen next. (Though of course, the aliens sort of are content with the path of the future, while the others are not).

There's more but I think I'm losing coherency after staying up too long after the debate.

Liz Kelly: I'm not sure the aliens feel contentment or merely curiosity. If they indeed see time like a mountain range vista -- all at once, then what's the point of feeling passion. You always have known and always will know the exact same thing.

But the very fact that they've captured Billy and Montana to display in a Tralfamadorian zoo indicates to me that there must still be some wildcards in the universe for them, some things they can't anticipate. Otherwise, what would be the point of watching Billy and Montana at all?

Jen Chaney: You know, I hadn't even thought about the connection to Sawyer and Kate in the cage, but that's very true. I definitely got a sense of contentment and peace from the aliens. They represented enlightenment, and their perspective is certainly one I would think John Locke might agree with: Everything has been pre-ordained, so all you can do is have faith in what has already been determined to happen. Free will is a bunch of bull, as far as they are concerned.

Can't say I necessarily think that's true, but if you believe that, it certainly takes the pressure off, doesn't it? Like, I could stop typing right now because why bother? This sentence has been destined to be finished without my even having to

Jen Chaney: You guys know I did that on purpose, right?

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Matthews, N.C.: I admire Vonnegut's progression through his first five novels to arrive at what I believe is a masterfully crafted attempt to focus our attention on death. The phrase, "So it goes," which permeates the text, is applied to such a range of demises that we are forced to look at Dresden with new eyes. So much for the "good guys/bad guys" distinctions which may have made us comfortable in WWII. We can reflect on them with benefit regarding the events in Iraq.

Jen Chaney: That's a very good point. The phrase itself almost sounds flippant or nonchalant. But Vonnegut uses it so much that it has the opposite effect: We stop and think (or at least I did) every time we read about another death.

Liz Kelly: Yes, each subsequent time I read the phrase I saw it as a sign of increasing detachment or desensitization. We are powerless in the face of man's inhumanity to man. Essentially, powerless to resist our basest natures. It's not a hopeful message.

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NoVA: Not on Sci-Fi but on abc.com for sure! Of course, I can't watch it on my flat screen TV but it's better than nothing when you don't got cable...and the HD is really great!

I read "Slaughterhouse-Five" in high school and only remember that I was nothing but confused through the entire thing. I hope "Lost" concludes better than that...

Jen Chaney: Don't get cable? My God, how do you function?

You should revisit "Slaughterhouse." I suspect you would grasp it much more fully now, and it certainly connects beautifully to "Lost."

Liz Kelly: I agree with Jen, get cable and give Vonnegut another try. It's a quick read and well worth it. Beyond any of the "Lost" connections it is also, as one other reader commented earlier, particularly prescient considering current events.

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dre7861: I'm on vacation this week, so for the first time I get to participate LIVE with the Lost Book Club. Sweet!

The thing that struck me the most about "Slaughterhouse-Five" was this particular passage: "The most important thing I learned on Tralfamadore was that when a person dies he only appears to die... All moments, past, present and future, always have existed, always will exist... It is an illusion we have here on Earth that one moment follows another one, like beads on a string, and that once a moment is gone it is gone forever."

Perhaps this explains why Christian and Charlie appear to be alive but at the same time we know they are dead. Clearly people who might be in "bad condition" from our prospective are still able to communicate and interact with those in much better shape. If the Island is a concentration of time, where one can see different periods at the same time, like in Daniel's little experiment with the rockets.

Maybe the whole idea we have about the Flashbacks and the Flashforwards is incorrect. Looking forward I know that Damon has hinted that the Flashback/forward will be different in the coming season. What I'm thinking is that the structure of sequences will be harder to place in time.

BTW, did you know that "Lostpedia" is having a their Lost Book Club on the same book as yours. How interconnected is that?

Liz Kelly: Well, there are only so many books in the "Lost" universe and "Slaughterhouse-Five" loomed large last season, so not entirely out of the realm of possibility that Lostpedia would settle on the same text. Just think how prepared you'll be when they get around to their analysis.

Re: the quote you pulled. That is definitely one of the passages that struck me as particularly applicable to our "Lost" timeline. And it's actually a theme we've hit before -- remember Dr. Manhattan from "Watchmen" experiences all time at once, making him omniscient and -- like Vonnegut's narrator -- a bit wistful.

I like your notion of the timeline getting even more confused in the coming season. If done right, that could make for an incredible mythology. If done wrong, it could utterly alienate a primetime viewing audience.

Jen Chaney: They definitely are doing something different with the time issue in the upcoming season. I think there will be a combination of flashbacks and flashforwards. I wonder if they will handle some of those the same way they did in that Sun and Jin episode (the one where Jin seemingly died) from last season, which I loved and other people found infuriating. In other words, you might not know whether you're flashing back, forwards or nowhere.

Of course I don't have my book with me to quote specifically, but I also found it interesting that Billy sees his own death. That, too, reminded me of Desmond and his flashes re: Charlie's death.

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Matthews, NC: How does this discussion work? I want to take part - I tried to write a Master's thesis on this book - I believe it is a very serious work that masks its seriousness in Vonnegut's humor.

Liz Kelly: You've figured it out Matthews. Tell us more about your thesis. I'm interested in Vonnegut's use of gallows humor throughout the text, as well. It's a trait that is used to poignant effect by Sawyer on "Lost."

Jen Chaney: True, but Vonnegut's humor is a little, shall I say, more sophisticated than Sawyer's. Not that I don't enjoy a good Jabba the Hutt reference.

Please do share more info about your thesis. These discussions obviously focus on the book's connection to "Lost," but we certaily can discuss the book on its own merits as well.

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Liz Kelly: Jen, what are your thoughts on the British soldiers who were living quite happily in the middle of one of the German camps? They have a pretty negative reaction to Billy and his fellow American soldiers, who are dirty and battle-scarred. These smelly, PTSD-rife Americans have invaded their calm oasis where they put on plays, smoke cigars and even dole out precious rations to their captors. They really reminded me of the Dharma folks -- people who mainly thought they were happy living on the island until the "Losties" came along and upset their neat little society.

Jen Chaney: That's a great, great point. And in wartime, these soldiers are sort of stuck in their situation, much the same way that people can get stuck on the island. For Billy, it seems like the gravity of the war itself doesn't hit home until Dresden is bombed. And, coincidentally, that's roughly when he started to get lost in time.

In that way, all the time travel could be read as PTSD. Billy's only way to handle what he saw is to disengage from it and put his mind elsewhere, and elsewhen.

Liz Kelly: So, following that line of logic, should we assume that our "Losties" -- or perhaps one through which we experience everything -- may also just be suffering from a wicked case of PTSD?

I know Damon and Carlton have poo-poohed the idea that the "Losties" are dead or that this is a dream, but I don't believe they've ruled out the idea of hallucinatory projection. Have they?

Jen Chaney: I don't think so, no. So when you raise this idea of PTSD, would it be PTSD from the crash, I assume?

Liz Kelly: Right. I should think a plane crash would be relatively trauma-inducing.

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Rockville, Maryland: My favorite book by Vonnegut was The Sirens of Titan.

I tried "Lost" but what I saw had activities so contrary to human nature, that I could not sustain any interest. But that is just my preference. Hope you enjoy all the episodes. And quite frankly, I never thought of the connection between book and show.

Jen Chaney: I have not read that one, but I may have to check it out.

Please tell us which activities you are referring to. I am curious now. If you only watched a few episodes of "Lost," I am not surprised you didn't pick up on literary references. They don't surface on a regular basis until several episodes in, and much more noticeably in season two. But trust us, they are there.

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I listened to "Slaughterhouse-Five" on talking book: and it was read by Ethan Hawke, which totally made me hate the book.

Liz Kelly: Was it Ethan's voice or did this "talking book" flap around like an agitated bird?

I know books on tape (or iPod) can be a commuter's sanity saving device, but I'm more of a hands-on girl. I like my books to have paper pages and to hear the words without the benefit of Mr. Ethan Hawke reading them to me.

Jen Chaney: But you also hate Ethan Hawke, Liz. So that has to be part of the problem.

Seriously, I agree. I prefer to read myself, particularly when it comes to fiction.

Liz Kelly: True, but it wasn't I who wrote in to say I hated the Hawked-up version.

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Rockville, Md.: How do you compare "Lost" to "Ubik."

Liz Kelly: Never read " Ubik." But maybe I should.

Jen Chaney: Ditto.

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Revenge...: is a big factor in the book, and parallels Ben's mission of revenge for the death of his daughter.

Liz Kelly: The revenge we see in the book is misplaced? In fact, the revenge that Roland feels toward Billy Pilgrim is almost a reflection of man's warlike tendencies playing out on a smaller scale. The message being that when it comes right down to it, Weary has no valid beef with Billy -- just as perhaps warring nations have very little to justify their aggressions, too.

So I'm not sure that parallels Ben's parental feelings of wanting to avenge his daughter.

Jen Chaney: Yeah, I think the parallels there extend more to the beefs between the Losties and the Others than they do specifically to Ben and the killing of Keamy.

I can't believe no one has mentioned the fact that this book also contains a plane crash, and frequent references to certain numbers, like 44. Both plot points/details reinforce this idea that there is a "grand plan" at work. Or could that be another one of the protagonist's defense mechanisms, a way to cope with the reality that life is really just random and cruel?

How's that grab you on a Friday afternoon?

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Off-topic: Wanted to know what you thought about "Fringe" so far? I thought the last episode nicely kicked it up a notch.

Jen Chaney: I feel terrible about this, but I really haven't watched. I've seen portions of the first one but have been so busy (and my DVR is so filled) that I haven't seen the others.

I definitely need to catch up. This is a totally random aside, but I did manage to more or less catch the return of "Pushing Daisies" the other night and just wanted to say in some kind of public forum that the sets and costumes absolutely amaze me. That might be the best show to watch in high-definition right now.

Sorry, just needed to say that. Now let's return to regularly scheduled programming.

Liz Kelly: Okay, I watched both the two-hour pilot and the first hour-long episode of "Fringe" and I just didn't like it. Though if you're saying that the last episode kicked it up a notch, maybe I didn't hang in there long enough.

In a nutshell: I thought the storylines were weak, the lead actress is both wooden and inept and the floating location labels were distracting. I get that it's meant to be engrossing in the same way the "X-Files" was, but from what I saw it didn't measure up.

Oh, but Joshua Jackson is hot. I wonder if Katie Holmes is watching. (Sorry, my Celebritology side reared its head. Like Vladimir Putin over Alaska.)

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Anonymous: I believe Guillermo Del Torro has been contracted to make a new movie version of Slaughterhouse. Who would you have play Billy? I'm thinking Toby McGuire, for some reason.

Jen Chaney: For obvious reasons, the whole time I was reading, all I could picture was Desmond. But casting Ian Cusick would be a little weird.

Hmmm ... maybe Jake Gyllenhall, since he knows a thing or two about time travel via "Donnie Darko"?

I am really intrigued by the idea of Del Toro adapting this. But since he's got to finish "The Hobbit" first, I may be on a UFO myself before he ever gets this into production.

Liz Kelly: Hmmm. I dunno. I think James Franco might make a good Billy Pilgrim.

You know who wouldn't? Ethan Hawke.

Jen Chaney: I bet you also think a younger Matthew Broderick would have been terrible, too, don't you?

Liz Kelly: Well, maybe a pre-Ferris Bueller Broderick.

Jen Chaney: So ... the dude from "WarGames"? Or the kid from "Max Dugan Returns"?

Liz Kelly: Oh, "War Games," for sure.

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DC: Liz, great "Putin over Russia" joke - I wonder if Sarah Palin can see the Island from her house too?

Liz Kelly: Awww, thanks. She does live on the water...

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Matthews, NC: Re: my thesis - I approached the novel finally as an incredible piece of craftsmanship. Did you know that in writing it, V. put all the characters on a long piece of kraft paper on different colored lines so he could plot their lives against real time. Then he played fast and loose with time by jumping back and forth to the future and back to the past. You knew early on how Billy would die, and all that - the point of the book isn't what happens to Billy. And the importance of the frame - V.'s description of his visit to his friend in PA, and the afterword about flying back to Dresden. This frame was removed from the movie, and V. later expressed disappointment with themovie because "they left me out of it." It was most important to him that readers realized that he was a witness - was there when the firestorm happened- and wanted them to understand his mission to find a way to deal with that event.

This idea of putting the book together in such a deliberate fashion for a specific effect really struck me. In a Playboy interview in 1973, V. said that Slaughterhouse Five was his reason for writing, and even though he wrote more after that, this was his mission.

Jen Chaney: Well, it's very clear that he cared deeply about this book. You can tell from reading it. It seems so meticulously crafted, even if you don't know the backstory.

That must have been a really fascinating thesis to write.

Liz Kelly: Well, I think Vonnegut's interest in this book probably had something to do with the fact that he was himself a POW in Dresden at the time of the allied attacks. In fact, here's an account of his experiences in his own words: The Blood of Dresden, ( The Sunday Times, June 1, 2008)

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Was it Ethan's voice: Yes, it was his voice.

Thanks for letting me get a little Celebritology into the Lost chat.

Liz Kelly: See Jen. It isn't just me.

Jen Chaney: Sigh. I know.

It's just ... well ... I loved him in "Reality Bites" and "Before Sunrise."

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Inquiring Minds: This is Banned Books Week, and since "Slaughterhouse-five" regularly appears on the lists of banned books we're all doing our part for freedom of the press! I'm just sayin'.

Jen Chaney: It is indeed Banned Books Week. Thanks for the reminder. Seriously, why would you ban "Slaughterhouse-Five"? Or anyhing, for that matter?

Liz Kelly: Because Joe Six-Pack can't be trusted to read about high-falutin' elite ideas. Duh.

Jen Chaney: Doggone it, Liz. I refuse to accept that.

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Movie Version: Ethan Hawke will be so disappointed if he doesn't get the role. It's his all time favorite book, besides the one he wrote himself.

Jen Chaney: Dang, what is this, bust on Hawke day?

Jen Chaney: Dang, what is this, bust on Hawke day?

Liz Kelly: Jen, no need to repeat the question -- it's always bust on Ethan Hawke day.

Jen Chaney: Rude!

Jen Chaney: I repeat: Rude!

Liz Kelly: You can't handle the truth!

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Liz Kelly: Thanks for joining us for this month's discussion. Next month, we'll continue the theme of books with numbers in the titles by reading Dr. Seuss's "One Fish, Two Fish, Red Fish, Blue Fish."

I kid. Jen has the scoop on our actual next selection below...

Jen Chaney: Liz and I spent hours deciding what to read next. And by hours, I mean five minutes.

But that's only because our next choice was obvious. It's a classic, it was on Naomi's person when she parachuted onto the island and it's ... "Catch-22" by Joseph Heller. Come prepared to discuss on Friday, Nov. 7 at 2 p.m. ET. Hey, we'll know who our next president is by then! Unless they're still counting votes...

Either way, we'll see you then. A link to that page will be live on the site shortly. Thanks, all.

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