Real Wheels

Warren Brown
Washington Post columnist
Friday, December 5, 2008 11:00 AM

Warren Brown has covered the car industry for The Washington Post since 1982.

Brown test drives all types of cars, from luxury sedans to the newest minivans and hybrids. His On Wheels auto reviews are lively, detailed accounts of cars' good and bad qualities.

Brown's Car Culture column addresses the social, political and economic trends of the industry.

Brown comes online Fridays at 11 a.m. ET to answer your questions on every aspect of the automotive industry -- from buying your dream car to the future of the internal combustion engine.

The transcript follows.

Subscribe to the Real Wheels RSS Feed

____________________

Fairfax: I'm sure you have some thoughts on the Detroit bailout proposals. One web commentator contends that it's a mistake to think of Detroit as one entity. He argues that Ford is in better financial shape than GM and might not even need government money, and that Chrysler is too far behind the curve to be saved and should be merged with somebody else. He also points out that Chrysler is owned by a private equity firm, whose principals would be the primary beneficiaries of any bailout. Do we really need Chrysler? And would it really be so terrible if GM shrunk, and American drivers bought more cars built by American workers in plants in Texas, South Carolina and other U.S. states?

Warren Brown: Good morning, Fairfax.

Here's my take.

We cannot be a First World country without ownership of core manufacturing enterprises, such as the automotive industry. We cannot be a nation of non-manufacturing, credit-laced consumers and remain nationally secure.

We need industrial and energy policies of the sort put in place by Japan's Ministry of International Trade and Industry. Japan actively supports its automobile industry. China actively supports its automobile industry. Ditto Korea, Germany, France and Italy.

Here, we actively support the banks that got us into this mess.

GM, Ford and Chrysler were making admirable progress in product quality and manufacturing efficiencies until the financial markets collapsed. GM and Ford, as you point out, are the strongest of a much-weakened three. Here's hoping that they survive. Chrysler? Cerberus is a three-headed dog that, when the wolf is at the door, will live up to its name. Chrysler, I fear, is gone.

_______________________

Geneva, Switzerland (but returning to NYC): Hi Mr. Brown, when we return to the States we'll be in the market for a car after going without for the last five years. Our last car was a Subaru Forester, and we're looking to purchase another Subaru. Are there any significant differences between the Outback (which you rated very high in your recent review) and the Forester that would justify the price difference? Second question, are there any differences between the 2008 and 2009 versions of either car? We're not wed to the idea of purchasing any car. We ask because if a Subaru dealership wants to unload a 2008 and gives us a price break, we'll likely jump at it given our prior experience with Subaru. Cheers.

Warren Brown: Yes, Geneva, there is a very big difference--but not what you might think. The Forester is classified as an "oversized SUV" by many NYC garages. That means they charge you anywhere from an extra $10 to $20 "oversized" parking fee. The Outback is classified as a car/wagon, which costs $10 to $20 less to park in NYC, which is why my NY lawyer daughter two weeks ago chose the Outback over the Forester.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: My elderly, increasingly wobbly father has a very hard time getting into and out of cars that have low or even normal-height seats. He's pretty good in and out of my RAV4, but that's a bit big for my mom to drive comfortably. So what kind of car should they buy? Thanks so much!

Warren Brown: Hello, Washington:

I'd recommend a four-cylinder Chevrolet Malibu, Honda Accord, or Toyota Camry--all of which have excellent build quality, good fuel economy, and excellent ingress and egress for those of us--ahem!--who are wobbly fathers and aging moms.

_______________________

Ocala, Fla.: Good morning Warren, what's your take on the future of Saab and Volvo? Assuming the Detroit Three get the bailout, can they use any of it to keep the Swedish brands going, or will they be cut loose to preserve Ford and GM's U.S. brands?

Warren Brown: Hello, Ocala.

They will cut loose to preserve Ford and GM brands, which is what Alan Mullaly successfully has been doing at Ford for the last two years anyway.

Personally, I hate to see either Volvo or Saab cut loose. Those companies make good cars. Here's hoping that Tata, Mahindra or some equally competent and interested manufacturer snaps them up.

_______________________

Arlington, Va.: I'd like one pre-owned for daily commuting; when do the Smart Car and Honda Fit start to hit the "used car" market?

Warren Brown: Good morning, Arlington:

Assuming that U.S. gasoline prices remain at their current low levels through early spring, you can expect the Smart and Honda Fit models to reenter the U.S. used-car market around then. I am not at all convinced that we have learned our lesson from last summer's $4+per-gallon gasoline. If pump prices remain below $2 a gallon, expect an acceleration of a trend that already has started--small car sales falling more rapidly than sales of larger models in what is now a depressed automotive market. Keep an eye on gasoline prices. They will be your indicator of what's hot and what's not.

_______________________

Baltimore, Md.: Good Morning, I am considering buying a used Cadillac CTS from 2005. Do you like these cars? are they reliable? And do you know if they require premium gas? Thanks! I really value your opinion.

Warren Brown: Good morning, Baltimore.

"Yes" on all of those questions, with a couple of caveats.

Interior materials quality in the 2005 CTS is not as good as it is now. It's not bad. Just rather ordinary.

Premium gasoline is recommended for best performance. That means you can getaway with using regular grades.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: Hola, Warren. Well, I don't think anyone, in or out of D.C. and Detroit, knows what the auto industry will or should look like 10 years from now. My guess is very similar to what it's like now, for better or worse. Aside from streamlining brands and pushing hybrids (the current auto darling), do you see any significant, meaningful changes in: sales/distribution, size, fueling infrastructure? The need for quality vehicles is a given, but without other changes as well, I can't see how anyone can claim the industry will be fundamentally different 10 or 20 years from now.

Warren Brown: Good morning, Washington:

Congress doesn't get it. And, I fear, President-elect Barack Obama doesn't get it, either.

Here's the deal: Japan, China, Korea, Germany, France and Italy have all made strategic decisions to protect their automobile industries and assist them in owning at least a part of the future for advanced propulsion and alternative fuel vehicular systems. They've done this via tax laws that steer consumers toward more fuel-efficient vehicles, and through the coordination of industrial and energy policies, with financial assistance to industry and academia, to exploit ALL of the latest automotive technologies.

Here in the United States, we have not reached that level of maturity or common sense. We'd much rather help banks. We no longer seem interested in owning a manufacturing infrastructure. We'd much rather farm out that dirty work to foreign-owned manufacturers at the lowest possible labor costs, thus allowing us to continue buying high quality at relatively low prices.

In that regard, we are our own worst enemies, which is why ours is devolving into what I call the Wal-Mart economy (should be the Wal-Mart economy, if you get my drift)--an economy of low wages in which we import low-cost labor, skills and talent so that we might continue satiating our lust for the highest quality at the lowest possible prices. It is consumerism run amuck.

We seem to have forgotten that it is a viable U.S. middle class, fueled by well-paying U.S. manufacturing jobs, that helped to create what once was one of the strongest and most egalitarian economies in the world.

We now seem satisfied with borrowing, debt, outsourcing, and widening the chasm between the nation's haves and have-nots, those who have more than enough, and those who are barely making it. It is a recipe for unrest.

_______________________

Clifton, Va.: If you travel outside NYC, Boston, D.C., L.A., S.F. and Seattle you find many Americans drive and buy Fords and Chevys etc. Folks will always need full size pick ups and SUVs. They need them for work or their hobbies. My sis has an 2007 Tahoe to haul her 3 border collies. The breeder of my collie has a full sized pick up to haul her dogs usually 5 to 8 to herding trials. I have my Element to haul my two dogs. Having multiple vehicles is not economically feasible for us. My breeder and sis get 16-18mpg around town and 20mpg+ on trips. I get 21-25mpg around town and 27-28mpg on trips. A small city car won't work for us. I would love to get a diesel powered Land Rover Defender 110. Listening Tata. The gov't should not be in the business of telling us what vehicles to buy especially through tax policies. Interesting that the EU and PRC aren't bailing out GM! And Ford is mortgaged to max which is why it has cash! If the banks call in the loans Ford is up a creek!

Warren Brown: Ah, Clifton, I get you. But, dear fellow, the government has been in the business of telling us what to buy for 40 years, now. Kindly read all of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, or clean-air regulations from the Environmental Protection Agency, or the various mobile-source emissions rules implemented by the California Air Resources Board. All of those rules and regulations effectively dictate what kinds of cars and trucks manufacturers make and what kind we buy.

The problem is that all of this governmental guidance lacks effective coordination, and often is poisoned by overdoses of stupidity and other wobbly thinking.

Example: Mandating corporate fuel efficiency, but doing nothing whatsoever to encourage, through fuel taxes and other fees, wiser vehicular choices among consumers.

That signal government failure has helped to introduce disruptive, destructive volatility to the market--which is why even Toyota recently guessed very wrong in introducing its reworked, more powerful version of its Tundra pickup.

_______________________

Reston, Va.: During yesterday's WaPo online chat with a GM spokesman, he was trying to say that the Pontiac Aztek was in the same class as other "ugly" vehicles such as the Honda Element and Scion xB - that dude's crazy. Pontiac Aztek was garbage, while Element and xB are decent vehicles under fairly non-conformist bodies. These GM guys need to stop drinking their own Kool-Aid!

Warren Brown: Thanks, Reston.

I, too, like the Element. But there are any number of people who think I'm nuts for liking it. As for the Aztek, rare is the person who defends that one. But, so what?

The Americans have hit a number of homeruns--GMC Acadia, Buick Enclave, new Chevrolet Malibu and Ford Fusion, Ford Flex and the new Ram 15000 pickup with Ram Box, one of the best pickups available anywhere. No one has a corner on talent...or stupidity.

_______________________

Washington, D.C. : Hiya Warren, Isn't the question not whether the government should be a lender to the U.S.-based car companies, but rather the terms and conditions of the loan? When Congress approved the $700B financial services industry bailout, there were not enough specific performance benchmarks included as conditions of the "loan" to control those companies' behaviors once they received the money. Isn't that what is needed with regard to the car company loans? The citizenry does not want to give $25B or more of our tax dollars to the car companies only to see them continue to make marginal improvements and cut workers loose. For our money, there must be concrete, measurable, attainable progress, or the money is squandered.

Warren Brown: Yes, Washington. Specific, reasonable loan conditions--certainly more specific and more reasonable than those given Citigroup (were there any?)--are needed. But what's also needed is a national commitment to maintain a U.S.-owned manufacturing base. Congress seems unaware of the latter, necessary requirement.

_______________________

Pennsylvania: You have said today and in previous writings that the U.S. needs to maintain "core manufacturing competencies." However you haven't supported this statement with any reasoning or facts. Isn't the problem exactly that manufacturing, as executed by these firms, is incompetent? If one or more firms were allowed to fail, do you think we would be less capable of making enough tanks, planes, jeeps, and trucks, to wage a war? The defense industry is as well funded as the US wants to make it. A world war on the scale of WWII, which would require re-tooling of the auto industry, will never happen. It would go nuclear before that ever occurred. More likely we will be engaged in insurgencies, hot-spots, and counter-terrorism campaigns. Can you provide some additional rationale for your entrenchment?

Warren Brown: Well, Pennsylvania:

If your argument turns on competence, or the lack thereof, perhaps, given our performance over the last eight years, we should get rid of Congress and the entire U.S. government.

My argument is that we cannot possibly maintain a First World country with a Third World consumer mentality--outsourcing everything, ceding all or most manufacturing to foreign ownership. Again, I look at Germany, Japan, Korea, China, India, France--countries that see strategic value in maintaining ownership of core manufacturing enterprises.

That's important, because, yes, without maintaining ownership of core manufacturing enterprises, we will be less capable of building tanks, planes, missiles...or anything else. That "defense industry" you speak of has long included companies such as GM, Ford and Chrysler. Do you now propose that we rely on BMW, Toyota, and Mercedes Benz, or Hyundai, Mahindra, and Cherry of China?

_______________________

The Forester is "oversized"?: Good grief! What are they getting for parking an Expedition? This is how the market solves challenges, huh?

Warren Brown: Many NYC garages will not accept Expedition-size vehicles; or, for the few who do, they'll charge you enough to go on an expedition of your own.

_______________________

Arlington, Va.: I love the Buick Enclave, which I looked at after reading your review. My wife is hesitant to commit because she worries about the current state of GM, and Buick specifically. Couple of questions, (1) how big of a concern should that be? and (2) the main reason we like the car is due to the middle bucket seats, which makes it SO much easier for us to use with 3 kids in child seats - are there any other SUV models out there that are looking to do the same (besides the other GM models that share the same platform as the Enclave)?

Warren Brown: Hello, Arlington:

Even in the unhappy event of a bankruptcy, there will be enough parts and people available to repair your Buick Enclave, Saturn Outlook and Chevrolet Traverse (all of which share the same platform). You might encounter some difficulties in terms of convenience, but nothing catastrophic.

But our question speaks to exactly why car companies seek to avoid the stigma of bankruptcy. It scares customers. Scared customers tend not to buy from bankrupt companies, although those countries successfully are restructuring their operations.

I can't say this enough:

The current mess has been caused by the banks and financial institutions, not by American product quality.

The sales at ALL major car companies are down by more than 30 percent. All major car companies, with the exception of the car company/bank Toyota (thanks MITI, thanks relatively closed Japanese market), are seeking some kind of assistance.

It is hypocritical for Congress to dump on Detroit and pump up the banks. House Speaker Pelosi needs to get her head out of California and Washington and look at the rest of the world.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: Congress needs to stop posturing and act with some integrity. 1) Force the Big 3 into a prepacked bankruptcy with the U.S. gov provided debtor in possession financing - plants will be closed; the execs will be fired; dealers will be fired; the platinum health and retirement benefits will go; and shareholders will get zero; 2) Forget about CAFE and pass a real gas tax to set a floor for gas prices. It doesn't matter if you make cars that get 100 miles to the gallon if gas goes down to $1.50 a gallon - people will go back to driving their gas guzzlers. Think of it as an investment in the industrial base. A real gas tax provides steady revenue for roads and rail and ensures that auto manufacturers will be able to make money on whatever new propulsion technology wins the race.

Warren Brown: I mostly like that idea, Washington. But, again, I think it's patently unfair to blame the American Three car executives--all of whose companies were making admirable progress before the financial markets collapsed--for problems caused by banks and other financial institutions involved in a global Ponzi scheme. Fire the bank heads. Send somebody to jail.

_______________________

Warren Brown: Okay, good people. Gotta go. Please come back next week. Thanks, Sakina, for another fine production.

Note:

Please keep the families and victims of the Mumbai massacre in your thoughts--and for those of you so inclined--in your prayers. If the people in Mumbai aren't safe, neither are we, which is the evil genius of terrorism.

Eat lunch, Ria.

_______________________

Arlington, Va.: Thanks for taking my question, Mr. Brown. My husband and I own a 2000 Toyota Corolla that's never given us any problems and is fully paid off. However, my husband is sick of the car and wants to buy something new. He's interested in smaller SUVs, whereas, if I had to buy anything (but who wants a car payment right now?), I'd want a wagon or hatchback. I'm very against buying an SUV because of their size and the difficultly of parking in the city. We've looked at the VW Rabbit, which we really liked, and the Toyota Matrix, whose interior seemed cheap. What other vehicles should we look at? And is it better to buy or lease? Leasing seems like it could turn into a cycle of constantly getting new cars, which we're not into. Thanks so much.

Warren Brown: Quick hit, Arlington:

The VW Rabbit is a good choice. Ditto the larger, fancier, quite likable VW CC. Also check the Audi A4.

_______________________

Rockville, Md: I just asked David Broder why the Big 3 don't go hat in hand to the Oil Co. and their R & D for investment capital. It would be a partnership in the future and if necessary there could be limited gov't oversight. It seems to me it would be an advantage to everyone for the OIL Co. to get involved with GREEN as soon as possible.

Warren Brown: Hat and hand? You mean like Citigroup? Oh, you're right. The White House, instead, rushed with palms extended to Citigroup.

_______________________

Chinatown: Maybe Wal-mart should start making cars...

Warren Brown: Trust me, Wal-Mart has considered that.

_______________________

You're right: "It is hypocritical for Congress to dump on Detroit and pump up the banks. House Speaker Pelosi needs to get her head out of California and Washington and look at the rest of the world." Speaker Pelosi needs to start addressing the fact that Detroit's problems are compounded because unregulated banking bailout money is being squirreled away instead of being used to unfreeze lines of credit. They can't give loans to the people that want to buy, but no one is holding the banks accountable.

Warren Brown: Posted

_______________________

Bonifay, Fla.: I agree that "We cannot be a First World country without ownership of core manufacturing enterprises, such as the automotive industry. We cannot be a nation of non-manufacturing, credit-laced consumers and remain nationally secure." However, to lure customers with something other than the equivalent of Jimmy Carter's "We should all sacrifice because it is morally right" the "Big 3" need to change their recall and dealer repair philosophy. Too often they try to sneak non-safety problems through the warranty period, and/or fund them so that they are a low priority item. Warranty repairs. perhaps other than cosmetic, that require more than an hour beyond an oil change could provide a loner car. Low cost trip interruption insurance could be made available, so that (1) a loner AND meals and lodging would be covered, and (2) the problem would be NEXT. Also, "we need to order the part, so it will be two or three days" doesn't cut it, unless trip interruption is compensated.

Warren Brown: Thank you, Bonifay:

I have been first and foremost criticizing Detroit when such criticism has been warranted. But so much of it has been unfair. Have they screwed up on warranties? Yes, they have. But an objective check of the record (www.nhtsa.dot.gov and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety are two recommended repositories of information) show that the Detroit companies have been far more responsive to consumers on warranty matters than many of their foreign rivals. Of course, they can always do better.

_______________________

Washington, D.C.: Warren, I agree that the industrial base is critical to our economic and strategic survival - hell I worked on a number of Industrial Base studies that were funded by Congress. But Pennsylvania has a valid point. Defense and logistical systems - are built by Lockheed, Boeing and the like NOT GM, Ford, or Chrysler. The A1-Abrams and Future Combat Vehicles and F-22 Raptor are all built right here in the USA without any links to U.S. Auto Manufacturers. So are all of the air and sea lift assets the military uses. So please explain your statement about the link between the auto industry and national security.

Warren Brown: GM, Ford, and Chrysler all supplied weapons in WW1, WWII and the Korean War. GM's OnStar emergency communications system has helped the Homeland Security people track traffic flows in national disasters. Alan Mulally, Ford's current chairman, led Boeing for decades. And if you go all through those companies, you'll find lots of cross-breeding in the executive ranks between automotive and defense people.

The bottom line is that we get nothing, and risk losing more than jobs by lessening our ownership of core manufacturing enterprises.

_______________________

Cary, N.C.: Over the last few weeks I've been re-watching a bunch of old Top Gear episodes (a totally kick-ass BBC car show, for those that know of it), and I've noticed something I didn't fully appreciate earlier: two of this chest-thumping hour of pure testosterone's favorite cars in the world are the Ford Focus and the Ford Mondeo (Britian's version of the Taurus, I gather). As I've been going back to 2003 or so, I've been wondering... have Ford secretly been making pretty good cars here in the States for the last five years, or had that energy been spent on SUVs and trucks?

Warren Brown: Ford has been making very admirable cars in this country for at least the last 15 years. But perception sorely lags reality.

_______________________

College Park, Md.: It's becoming pretty clear that the full-size SUVs and trucks that the American auto industry depended are, essentially, a thing of the past. The product line available from the U.S. companies is going to shift to smaller, more efficient cars. The question is can they do it fast enough to save themselves. That's, from my understanding of the situation, part of the reason they are trying to get loans from Congress. Many, if not all of these companies, have product lines in Europe that are high quality, smaller, and fuel efficient. Wouldn't selling some of these models here help get them around their short-term problems? I know that the safety and emission standards are slightly different but I'd think that modifying them would be quicker and cheaper than trying to design an entire new product line.

Warren Brown: Good points, College Park:

But, no, SUVs won't disappear. Many people need them. Keep in mind they've been around since at least 1935.

Yes, The American Three put too many of their products in the truck basket. But keep in mind that they were robustly joined in that foolishness by BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Honda, Toyota and Nissan. The foreign rivals all received healthy tax incentives from state and local governments--usually in anti-union states--to set up car and truck plants to

compete against unionized domestic companies. Exactly, how is that fair, Senator Shelby of Alabama, whose state gave hundreds of millions in incentives to foreign rivals? Is that why Shelby is so against Detroit?

_______________________

Arlington, Va.: I just returned from a vacation in SE Asia. Thailand seems to have a lot of cars running on LPG. I believe most fleet vehicles are using it and probably most of the numerous taxis in Bangkok. I had to drive from Bangkok to the south in order to get home because of the airport closures. My driver stopped a couple of times to refuel at LPG stations along the way. The infrastructure there for alternative fuels seems to be much better developed than what we have here. Do you think we will see much expansion in alternative fuel stations in this country in the near future?

Warren Brown: Here's hoping, especially in LPG applications for commercial and construction vehicles.

_______________________

Sandy Hook, Conn.: Help! The wife hates the way I drive her 2007 Saturn Vue hybrid because I set the parking brake before shifting into "Park." She thinks having to release the parking brake is annoying; I think it will save wear on the transmission. Who's right?

Warren Brown: Your wife, Sandy Hook. There is no need to set the parking brake before shifting into park. Advantage, spouse.

_______________________

Wilmington, N.C.: Regarding your response to Fairfax ... Mr. Brown why when I'm listening to the congressmen on PBS, am I not hearing some words of wisdom as you and one of your fellow reporters/writers impart to us daily... don't they read the Washington Post. They all sound really misinformed or uncurious about important details re: auto industry. Do we need to start a Preserve the American auto industry group run by citizens and not the labor unions for them congressional types to start listening ?

Warren Brown: Yes, Wilmington. But what we really need is a national demand for a more intelligent Congress. Seriously. The current posturing on the Hill is embarrassing, far south of ridiculous.

_______________________

Mclean, Va.: One of the likely results of a bailout of the Big 3 is that there will be fewer dealers around. Do you see any fundamental difference in the purchasing process as a result of a bail out? For example, no more random pricing structures that make the entire buying experience unpleasant. Can't the companies and the dealerships figure out what a reasonable profit at the points along the supply chain and price the cars accordingly? I would like to know ahead of time what a car will cost. This is an anomaly that could be fixed now.

Warren Brown: The truth, McLean, is that the American Three companies for more than a decade now have been trimming their dealership ranks. They had no choice. Ours is the most open, most lucrative car market in the world. It's hard to be that open in a market that attractive to global competition without losing market share. Given that scenario, the American three have done well to hold onto 47 percent or so. But 47 percent is not 60 or 70 or nearly 100. Dealership ranks must shrink accordingly.

Okay, Sakina, I'm done.

_______________________

Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions. washingtonpost.com is not responsible for any content posted by third parties.