Transcript: Wednesday, March 4 at 11 a.m. ET

Government Careers

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Derrick Dortch
Career counselor
Wednesday, March 4, 2009; 11:00 AM

Derrick Dortch is a career counselor who specializes in government job searching and military transition. Currently, he is president of The Diversa Group, a firm that focuses on career counseling and development, entrepreneurship, leadership and organizational consulting, training and development. He also runs The Career Success Group as well as Targeted Resumes.

Find more career-related news and advice in our Jobs section.

The transcript follows.


Derrick Dortch: Good Morning, Good Morning!

Well the sun is back out in Washington, DC and today is a great day for the show. I am going to leave my comments for the end of the show and get right to answering your questions. Thank you as usual for stopping by the show and if you have any questions about the federal hiring process, getting security clearances, military transitions or anything career related then please ask. ENJOY THE SHOW!!!!


Arlington, Va.: What is the process for getting reinstated for a security clearance with the goverment or a civilian contractor? I understand I need a sponsor (company or gov agency) but unless I have a employer, I'm out of luck. I want to get back with DOD(prior service 10 yrs fed gov experience). I have been working in the financial services sector for the last 16yrs, not the place to be these days. I'm 53.

Derrick Dortch: Hello Arlington,

The only way you can get your clearance back is to be hired into a position with the federal government or with a government contractor that requires a clearance. Yes the government contractor has to sponsor you. It sounds like you have a great deal of experience that would the federal government would be quite interested in with both a background in financial services and DOD. Do not worry about your age. You are still a young man and still have quite a lot to offer. Develop a targeted, powerful and persuasive resume that shows your what you bring to the table and get out there.


Bowie, Md.: On Feb. 22, Mr. Dortch oversimplified the issue of getting a job without a clearance. He implies that contractors like SAIC "...will bring (people) aboard and clear them." Contractors have no authority to clear their employees -- the hire must be submitted to the agency, who will initiate the clearance process. Many companies are now giving folks "conditional offers." and hire only if they successfully pass the clearance process. As the former recruitment manager of a major DoD Agency and a curent personnel security professional, I might be able to assist you with direct insights on some of these issues...

Derrick Dortch: Hello Bowie, MD,

Thanks for your comment. I never implied that government contractors can provide clearances to people without the authority of the government nor did I imply that the contractors will clear the person without direction of the government. I always tell people that clearances can only be authorized by the federal government and that it is the federal government that conducts the background investigations through Office of Personnel Management (OPM), some other agency body or through federal contractors such as L-3 and that the designated agency within the federal government who is responsible for adjudications then adjudicates that person and determine if the person is eligible for a clearance.

What many people have asked and continue to ask is "Can they get a job with out a clearance?", and the answer is YES. If you are not a federal employee you do not have to have a security clearance to apply to a federal position that requires one. Once you are given an conditional offer of employment the agency who has hired you they will initiate the clearance process. If you are successful through the process of the background investigation and adjudication then you will be given clearance appropriate for the job you have (Confidential, Secret, Top Secret, Top Secret/SCI, Lifestyle Poly, Full Scope, etc.). For those who are interested in military service the same goes for when you join. If you are put into a position within the military that requires a clearance then the military will clear you. Do note that certain positions in the military require clearances, not all of them.

In regard to government contractors like Booz Allen, SAIC and many, many others you can get a position without having a clearance already. You want to look for positions that are "Clearable". This means a couple things: 1) that the position is open to people who do not have a clearance, 2) that the company will provide or should I say sponsor you for clearance if you are selected for the position, 3) the company is looking for someone who does not have too many red flags on their record that will prevent them from getting a clearance at all or within a timely fashion.

Many people have asked how do you find positions that are "CLEARABLE". There are two ways to do this search. First go to Job Search Engines like,, or (to name a few) that do meta searches across a a number of sites and pulls up jobs. When you go there do individual keyword searches under "CLEARABLE" and "ability to obtain a security clearance" When you do this a number of jobs will come up.

I did this search this morning and these are two positions I found:


Business Objects Developer - Must be clearable

Job Description:

Full time Business Objects Applications Developer for a large DoD program. Job location will be in Manassas VA. Responsible for Design of universes, reports, and dashboards following customer approved requirements; Implementation and testing of universes, reports, and dashboards using Business Objects; Development of embedded SQL and development of applications utilizing the Business Objects SDK

* Ability to obtain clearances including IT 2, Adjudicated National Agency Check with Law and Credit (NACLC); Active DoD Secret Clearance will be required

* Bachelor's degree in Computer Science or related Technical degree

* 5+ years of Business Objects or similar experience supporting an IT systems development effort. Must have recent experience on a mid-large, complex, full lifecycle program. Hands-on experience with Business Objects SDK.

* Experience working on CMMI level 3 or higher certified software development programs. Experience with process improvement methodologies. Experience with DoD managed systems. Experience with using and administration of Business Objects XI R2 (Web Intelligence, Crystal Reports, Dashboard Manager, Performance Manager, Set Analysis, and Excelcius); Oracle/Teradata; Experience with logistics, supply, and transportation also desirable.

If you are interested in hearing more about the position - or if you know someone who may match this skill set, please email ( your updated resume and contact Mark Sterling, Sr. Recruiter for Manpower Professional Southeast region at toll free 888.832.4199 ext 15.

Security Researcher

Company: Crucial Security

Company Profile | Current Opportunities (18)

Job Location(s): Chantilly

Employment Term: Regular

Employment Type Full Time

Start Date: As soon as possible

Starting Salary Range: Not Provided

Related Categories: IT - General, Security Clearance

Position Description

Candidate requires advanced technical knowledge in the areas of system-level programming (including driver development), x86 assembly, reverse engineering, kernel-mode debugging, and operating system internals. Experience with the development of any of the following is a plus: software protection, distributed programming, automated executable analysis, virtualization, or emulation engines. Excellent writing ability desired.


* Short engagement, complex network penetration testing

* Design, develop and debug software in C/C++ and x86 assembly

* Contribute to the design and development to innovative research projects in the areas of virtualization and distributed programming

* Develop and innovate low-level software protection methods and executable dissection algorithms

Maintain current knowledge of new technologies, systems, and tools

* Co-author small-group project reports, documentation, and proposals for a highly technical audience

***Candidate must be a US Citizen with the ability to obtain a Government Clearance***


The second way to do this is to get a list of the government contractors who are hiring. This is a large list but to get you started Gov Exec put out a list of the Top 200 that you can find here:

Once you get this list go to the company itself and begin doing a job search. I will use Booz Allen as an example. If you go to Booz Allen and begin doing a job search you will find that they have a section on their that asks you to check off which type of job you are applying as it relates to clearance levels. One of the checkboxes says "CLEARABLE". When you check this and do your search it will list jobs that say "Ability to obtain a clearance". Here is one of these jobs from a search I did this morning on Booz Allen's website


Key Role:

Provide expertise as a mid-level accountant documenting accounting system processes and identifying financial management improvement opportunities. Review and comprehend various accounts receivable processes from among multiple financial and accounting systems with the goal of documenting system processes and internal control points. Support a team of accountants that are focused on ensuring audit readiness of a large federal government agency. Brief senior-level managers on research findings and propose process improvements. This position is located in Indianapolis, IN.


Basic Qualifications:

-2+ years of experience with performing audits of financial systems or preparing for external audits

-Experience with analyzing accounting systems and accounting processes

-Experience with documenting accounting processes or system processes

-Experience with using Microsoft Office, including Word, Excel, and Access

-Ability to obtain a security clearance

-BA or BS degree required

-Certified Public Accountant (CPA) required

Now do keep in mind that some companies will not make it this easy. For some you have to dig through their job announcements and find jobs that state "Ability to obtain a security clearance". For some companies these jobs are not always the top list or top priority jobs so they may not be advertised as much on job boards it just depends on the need.

Many of the jobs with government contractors that do not require you to have a clearance when you apply and the contractor will sponsor your clearance are usually very technical or require certain certifications, skills and qualifications or they are junior level positions. There are some exceptions. Also do keep in mind that there is a great deal of competition for these positions so I definitely recommend that you have some very strong, targeted, powerful and persuasive self marketing materials and that you also do your best to implement a good networking plan and either tap into people who you know who may work at these government contractors or go to career fairs and other events to get some face time and make a strong impression. With many companies such as Booz Allen and others if you know someone and they recommend you then it can make the world of difference with you getting into the door.

I hope this clears up what I was talking about when it comes to "Clearable" jobs. Its not a simple process but there are positions out there. I have worked with many people to help them get cleared jobs when they did not have clearances and have seen it happen on numerous occasions so do know that it is possible.

I am always open to any comments, recommendations or suggestions so please send them. The more information we can get out to the people to demystify this process and help everyone succeed the better.

Please send any information and insight you have. Take care, thanks for the comments, and I wish you much success.


Washington, D.C.: How can you find a good job with extensive professional experience and no security clearance?

Derrick Dortch: Hello DC, read the answer I gave above about finding a "CLEARABLE" position and it should be of assistance. I would definitely recommend you look at federal jobs right now. Many agencies are in a hiring mode. FBI, Secret Service, Customs and Border Protection, National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, CIA, FDIC, Treasury, NSA, and others are hiring right now for a wide range of positions. Go to and and look for and apply for these positions. Also go directly to these agencies websites.

I would also suggest you begin going to career fairs in the area. Think about your strategy before going to a career fair and plan out how you will target certain agencies or companies and how you will sell yourself to them. Do not go to a career fair without a strategy. This is an ineffective use of your time. Career Fairs can be overwhelming but if you develop the right strategy then they can be quite a successful experience for you.

For many of these positions a clearance is require so I suggest you do a parallel search. This means that you look for positions that do not require clearances where you can get hired quickly to in order to sustain yourself. I know with the economy this is not easy but trust me there are jobs out there. Many are not advertised but there are places that have openings. Federal jobs and government contractor jobs that are "CLEARABLE" but require clearances will require you to have to wait a few months even after getting a conditional offer of employment so you need to have another job to provide stability in the mean time.

I wish I could go into more detail about the hidden job market but I don't have time today. I will try to focus in on that for next show.

I hope this helps, take care and I wish you much success.


New Brunswick, N.J.: My boyfriend has a felony from about five years ago for a possession charge, nothing really serious though. He made some bad decisions when he was younger. He has been trying very hard to get his life together and is having a very hard time finding a job. He got a couple jobs here and there, but was laid off from his last one. Do you know of any agencies that are more likely to hire ex-offenders?

Derrick Dortch: Hello NJ,

I am sorry to hear about your boyfriend being laid off. With the economy the way it is right now this is unfortunately a common occurrence. Pursuing a position with the federal government is definitely something I suggest because many agencies are hiring. Him having a felony does not prevent him from working for the federal government. What it does prevent him from doing is working for specific agencies. Agencies that will not hire a person with a felony will usually be those in the law enforcement, national security, homeland security/defense, and intelligence communities (IC). Also jobs in agencies that have either a law enforcement or national security status will be unattainable.

To give you an example, here are the FBI Employment Disqualifiers are:

* Conviction of a felony

* Use of illegal drugs in violation of the FBI Employment Drug Policy (see the FBI Employment Drug Policy for more details)

* Default of a student loan (insured by the U.S. Government)

* Failure of an FBI-administered urinalysis drug test

* Failure to register with the Selective Service System (for males only)

Also under the Adjudication Desk Reference (ADR) which is used as the guideline to determining a person can receive a Security Clearance under Department of Defense Guidelines it says the following:

Section 1071 of the National Security Act of 2001, commonly known as the Smith Amendment, was enacted as 10 USC 986 and amended in late 2004. It applies only to the Department of Defense (DoD). As currently worded, it prohibits DoD from granting or renewing a security clearance if the individual:

* has been convicted in any court of the United States of a crime and sentenced to imprisonment for a term exceeding one year and was incarcerated as a result of that sentence for not less than one year;

* is an unlawful user of, or is addicted to, a controlled substance;

* is mentally incompetent, as determined by a mental health professional approved by the DoD;

* has been discharged or dismissed from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions.

The law applies to all security clearances adjudicated by DoD, whether military, government civilian, or civilian in industry. Among the military, it applies to active duty, reserve, or National Guard personnel. The law does not apply to clearances processed by other non-Defense agencies. For that reason, the Smith Amendment requirements are not included in the national adjudicative standards. They are, however, included in the DoD and military service issuances of these standards.

Outside of the type of agencies and positions I mentioned for most other federal positions your boyfriend is eligible to apply. He has served his time and now should be allowed to be a productive member of our society. What I would suggest you do is that if you have any doubts about the position and what agency it may fall under or what status it may be classified as then go to the "How to Apply" section and look for the contact information and call. They should be able to clearly tell you if this is a position that he is ineligible to apply for or not. You dont have to give your name when you call. You can just call and ask for information about the situation.

Tell your boyfriend not to give up on his job search. There are positions out there. I would recommend that he still focus on doing a private/commercial or non-profit sector job search for positions while still looking for federal jobs. The federal hiring process can still take quite some time.

If you have more questions please contact me at Take care and I wish you both success.

_______________________ We are currently facing technical difficulties. Derrick Dortch will be live shortly.


Interim Cleareance: Interim Clearance--I have a question that I really need your help on. I have interviewed with a government agency and everything looks good. My only concern is regarding obtaining an interim clearance while I get a secret clearance. The reason I am concerned about this is because I am a dual citizen (USA and Egypt). I was born in the USA and lived here all my life. Everyone in my immediate family is a US citizen except my mother, who only needs to take her oath before becoming a US citizen. Everything else in my background is fine, I do not have any credit issues, criminal issues or past employment issues. Will the fact that I am a dual citizen, or that my mother is still in the process of becoming a citizen negatively effect my chances of obtaining an interim or a secret clearance?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Derrick Dortch: Hello Interim Clearance,

Thanks for your question. Dual citizenship and being able to maintain it really depends on the level of security clearance you are getting and many times on the agency you are getting it from. The concerns about dual citizenship really fall under 3 areas.

Allegiance to the United States

Foreign Influence

Foreign Preference

Let me give you some background about each. The Adjudicative Desk Reference (ADR) which is used as a reference for Adjudicators and other involved in the security clearance process says the following about each. As read these make you take a good look at Foreign Preference and the disqualifying and mitigating factors.

Allegiance to the United States ----

The Concern. An individual must be of unquestioned allegiance to the United States. The willingness to safeguard classified information is in doubt if there is any reason to suspect an individual's allegiance to the United States.

4. Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include:

(a) involvement in, support of, training to commit, or advocacy of any act of sabotage, espionage, treason, terrorism, or sedition against the United States of America;

(b) association or sympathy with persons who are attempting to commit, or who are committing, any of the above acts;

(c) association or sympathy with persons or organizations that advocate, threaten, or use force or violence, or use any other illegal or unconstitutional means, in an effort to:

(1) overthrow or influence the government of the United States or any state or local government;

(2) prevent Federal, state, or local government personnel from performing their official duties;

(3) gain retribution for perceived wrongs caused by the Federal, state, or local government;

(4) prevent others from exercising their rights under the Constitution or laws of the United States or of any state.

5. Conditions that could mitigate security concerns include:

(a) the individual was unaware of the unlawful aims of the individual or organization and severed ties upon learning of these;

(b) the individual's involvement was only with the lawful or humanitarian aspects of such an organization;

(c) involvement in the above activities occurred for only a short period of time and was attributable to curiosity or academic interest;

(d) the involvement or association with such activities occurred under such unusual circumstances, or so much time has elapsed, that it is unlikely to recur and does not cast doubt on the individual's current reliability, trustworthiness, or loyalty.

Foreign Influence ------

The Concern. Foreign contacts and interests may be a security concern if the individual has divided loyalties or foreign financial interests, may be manipulated or induced to help a foreign person, group, organization, or government in a way that is not in U.S. interests, or is vulnerable to pressure or coercion by any foreign interest. Adjudication under this Guideline can and should consider the identity of the foreign country in which the foreign contact or financial interest is located, including, but not limited to, such considerations as whether the foreign country is known to target United States citizens to obtain protected information and/or is associated with a risk of terrorism.

Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include:

(a) contact with a foreign family member, business or professional associate, friend, or other person who is a citizen of or resident in a foreign country if that contact creates a heightened risk of foreign exploitation, inducement, manipulation, pressure, or coercion;

(b) connections to a foreign person, group, government, or country that create a potential conflict of interest between the individual's obligation to protect sensitive information or technology and the individual's desire to help a foreign person, group, or country by providing that information;

(c) counterintelligence information, that may be classified, indicates that the individual's access to protected information may involve unacceptable risk to national security;

(d) sharing living quarters with a person or persons, regardless of citizenship status, if that relationship creates a heightened risk of foreign inducement, manipulation, pressure, or coercion;

(e) a substantial business, financial, or property interest in a foreign country, or in any foreign-owned or foreign-operated business, which could subject the individual to heightened risk of foreign influence or exploitation;

(f) failure to report, when required, association with a foreign national;

(g) unauthorized association with a suspected or known agent, associate, or employee of a foreign intelligence service;

(h) indications that representatives or nationals from a foreign country are acting to increase the vulnerability of the individual to possible future exploitation, inducement, manipulation, pressure, or coercion;

(i) conduct, especially while traveling outside the U.S., which may make the individual vulnerable to exploitation, pressure, or coercion by a foreign person, group, government, or country.

Conditions that could mitigate security concerns include:

(a) the nature of the relationships with foreign persons, the country in which these persons are located, or the positions or activities of those persons in that country are such that it is unlikely the individual will be placed in a position of having to choose between the interests of a foreign individual, group, organization, or government and the interests of the U.S.;

(b) there is no conflict of interest, either because the individual's sense of loyalty or obligation to the foreign person, group, government, or country is so minimal, or the individual has such deep and longstanding relationships and loyalties in the U.S., that the individual can be expected to resolve any conflict of interest in favor of the U.S. interest;

(c) contact or communication with foreign citizens is so casual and infrequent that there is little likelihood that it could create a risk for foreign influence or exploitation;

(d) the foreign contacts and activities are on U.S. Government business or are approved by the cognizant security authority;

(e) the individual has promptly complied with existing agency requirements regarding the reporting of contacts, requests, or threats from persons, groups, or organizations from a foreign country;

(f) the value or routine nature of the foreign business, financial, or property interests is such that they are unlikely to result in a conflict and could not be used effectively to influence, manipulate, or pressure the individual.

Foreign Preference ----

The Concern. When an individual acts in such a way as to indicate a preference for a foreign country over the United States, then he or she may be prone to provide information or make decisions that are harmful to the interests of the United States.

Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include:

(a) exercise of any right, privilege or obligation of foreign citizenship after becoming a U.S. citizen or through the foreign citizenship of a family member. This includes but is not limited to:

(1) possession of a current foreign passport;

(2) military service or a willingness to bear arms for a foreign country;

(3) accepting educational, medical, retirement, social welfare, or other such benefits from a foreign country;

(4) residence in a foreign country to meet citizenship requirements;

(5) using foreign citizenship to protect financial or business interests in another country;

(6) seeking or holding political office in a foreign country;

(7) voting in a foreign election;

(b) action to acquire or obtain recognition of a foreign citizenship by an American citizen;

(c) performing or attempting to perform duties, or otherwise acting, so as to serve the interests of a foreign person, group, organization, or government in conflict with the national security interest;

(d) any statement or action that shows allegiance to a country other than the United States: for example, declaration of intent to renounce United States citizenship; renunciation of United States citizenship.

11. Conditions that could mitigate security concerns include:

(a) dual citizenship is based solely on parents' citizenship or birth in a foreign country;

(b) the individual has expressed a willingness to renounce dual citizenship;

(c) exercise of the rights, privileges, or obligations of foreign citizenship occurred before the individual became a U.S. citizen or when the individual was a minor;

(d) use of a foreign passport is approved by the cognizant security authority.

(e) the passport has been destroyed, surrendered to the cognizant security authority, or otherwise invalidated.

(f) the vote in a foreign election was encouraged by the U.S. Government

Now based on what you have told me this could be an area of concern but you also have the mitigating circumstances that will clear you. For the moment I do not think this will be an issue for you and if you have been given an Interim Clearance then I think you will be fine. If it does come up explain you have dual citizenship only because of your parents. If you do have a passport from Egypt then you may have to turn it in and you may be asked to renounce your citizenship from Egypt as well. Be prepared to do this.

What I would suggest is that you check in with your Security Officer and see how things are coming along with your clearance. If everything is moving along smoothly and you have filled out all forms honestly then do not worry about it too much. I would suggest that you talk to your Security Officer and ask them if you need to put any additional information in about your dual citizenship. You want to make sure you are fully honest about this and it is not something that comes up and it seems you were hiding. Overall I think you will be fine just make sure you are upfront.

Keep me abreast of your situation and if you have more questions please contact me at

Take care and I wish you much success.


Chicago, Ill.: Do you think an unemployed person should include an explanation of why she is unemployed in a cover letter? Does it depend upon the circumstances? Thanks!

Derrick Dortch: Hello Chicago,

Good Question! I think you should focus on what I call your SEEQ (Skills, Education, Experience, Qualifications) and how they relate to the job you are targeting. Do not focus in on you being unemployed. There are many people in that same position. What I want to know as an employer is what you can do for me and why you are the best person for me to hire. When you are in the interview if it is something that comes up or is some type of story that can assist you in winning the job then you can bring it up then.

If you are asked about it in a career fair or somewhere else you can give a response on why you are unemployed (be prepared to answer this question effectively) but do not focus on it too long. Go right back and focus on what you can bring to the position and how you are the best candidate.

I hope this helps. Take care and I wish you much success.


McLean, Va.: Good morning Derrick, I have an interview coming up at one of the federal agencies. The interview is about four hours with lunch. Is this interview schedule normal for the federal government? I'm used to an hour to two hour interview time-frame in the private sector and I've never had lunch as part of the process.

Derrick Dortch: Hello McLean,

There is no set standard for federal interviews. Some last about 20 - 30 minutes others last 4 hours and some will have a full day planned for you that will include some testing. It all really depends on the agency. Many agencies in the Intelligence, National Security, Law Enforcement and Homeland Security fields will have long interviews and long interview processes that may involve multiple interviews, tests, and submission of materials. This all just depends on the agency and how they want to hire.

Because you have such a long interview I want you to look at it as a positive thing. This means you have 4 hours to make a very powerful impression on those who are evaluating you. This means you need to be very much so prepared. I would suggest you doing extensive research on the agency, its leadership and those who you will be interviewing with if you can get their names. Look at press releases, news about agency and the area you will be working on and much more. You need to gather as much intelligence as possible.

After you gather this information then I want you to break down the job you applied and get the duties and qualifications they were looking for and turn them into questions. For each one of the questions make sure develop a strong response. The response should be success stories from your experiences that are relevant to the work of this positions and this department or office in the agency you are interviewing with. You should have at least 2 success stories that you are ready to rattle off when asked a question.

I would also suggest that you pull together a portfolio to show your work. Its what I call a Career Success Portfolio. This has a copy of your presentation style resume as well as samples of your work that you can give to your interviewers and that you can talk about during the interview. This is an effective tool so make sure you have copies for each person you will be talking to.

Those are some of many suggestions I can give you. Let know how it goes and I wish you much success.


Southern Maryland: Mr. Dortch: How important is the veteran's qualificatin when applying for clerical positions? I've applied for a clerical position at an agency where I started working many years ago. I left to go into private industry but have never served in the military. (Not a requirement when I started working back in the Stone Age.) I acquired much more experience plus a degree since then, but the agency said I'm not qualified since I'm not a veteran. It's only a clerical job, for heaven's sake.

Derrick Dortch: Hello Southern, MD,

Thanks for your question. Some positions within the federal government are set aside for veterans. Some clerical positions do fall in this category sometimes. This may have been one of those cases. Please do not be discouraged by this. There will be more positions that will be open to you that will not have these preferences on them. You are doing the right thing by getting more SEEQ (Skills, Experience, Education and Qualifications). Keep doing this. Get as much training as the federal government will give you. Get on special details and do a great job so managers will see how capable you are. Keep pushing forward and you will get the next position and go even higher.

Take care and I wish you much success.


Derrick Dortch: I thought I was going to be able to go till 12:30 today but my producer is telling me we have to wrap it up. We will be back on March 18th at 11:00 am for another show. Please submit your questions early (days earlier) and I will will try to go in our system early and begin answering questions. As usual I want to thank my Producer Sakina and my Editor Amy for all of the great support they give me. And most of all I want to thank you for stopping by and sending in your questions, comments, and recommendations or for just tuning in.

I will be on Federal News Radio at 12 noon for my weekly radio show "Fed Access with Derrick T. Dortch. We will be talking more about the "Critical Issues facing the Foreign Service". This is part 2 of my interview with John Naland, President of the American Foreign Service Association (AFSA).

Till the 18th take care, be safe and I wish you much success in your career, work and life.

Derrick T. Dortch


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