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Maryann Haggerty and Elizabeth Razzi
Washington Post Real Estate editor and columnist
Friday, April 17, 2009; 1:00 PM

Post Real Estate editor Maryann Haggerty and author Elizabeth Razzi discussed the local housing market -- from condos and investment properties to contracts and mortgages.

The transcript follows.

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Elizabeth Razzi: Hi, everybody! Glad to have you back. Please, post comments to others' postings as early as possible, and we'll try to get them on. And, later, be sure to stop by the Local Address blog and put your .02 into the Weekend Poll, which asks for your thoughts on vacation homes.

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Maryann Haggerty: Hello everyone.

The cherry blossoms may be gone from the Tidal Basin, but the cherry tree in front of my house will be in peak bloom this weekend. (It's the variety that lags two weeks behind the famous ones.) It's so pretty that you don't even notice how badly the trim on the house needs paint. That tree is one of my favorite things about my house. Tell us some of your favorites about YOUR house.

Meanwhile, we'll do our best to answer your questions.

Elizabeth Razzi: Oh, let me take a spin! What I really, really love is the birdsong in the morning. Our neighborhood is full of trees, which provide delightful shade all summer. But I love the sound of mourning doves, woodpeckers (as long as they aren't drilling into the house), and the little chirpy ones that I can't identify. They do make me wish we had a garage, though.....

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The "might have been" blues: I'm a long-time reader and house-shopper who finally put a contract on a house. We close at the end of April. At the time of contract, the house was the better of only two for sale in the community where I wanted to live, and I was thrilled to find it. Now there are four more for sale in the neighborhood, some nicer than the one I've got. Any tips on how to avoid wishing I'd waited? There's nothing wrong with the house I'm buying, it's just not the absolute best house out there.

Elizabeth Razzi: Ah, a full-blown case of buyer's remorse! Almost everybody goes through it, and I think you may be even more susceptible if you've been shopping a long time. The hunt becomes a way of life. Don't worry, it passes. What you have to do is quit shopping homes! (Keep reading our stuff, of course, but only the parts geared to the ongoing homeowner, like articles on design, property taxes and homeowners associations) and turn your attention toward the future in your new home -- the flowers you hope to plant, draperies you hope to hang, etc. Oh, and congratulations!

Maryann Haggerty: Really.

Stop looking at listing Web sites.

Stop going to open houses.

It will seem weird, but you'll get used to it.

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Washington, DC: So where is this housing recession? I have made offers on two homes. One was a foreclosure in AU Park. Lost that one to someone who offered over asking. Second house in Forest Hill. I made an offer of $100K over asking and still lost out to someone who offered, as the realtor put it, "substantially more" then asking. I don't get it. I have an excellent credit score(820), money down (20 percent) and can't get my hands on a decent house. Now don't get me wrong there are plenty of house for sale in both of these areas but a lot of them are still way over priced and really crappy houses. The two homes I bid on needed substantial work but I had a builder and banker behind me ready to start construction. I am not trying to flip a house and make money. I am trying to find a new place to live. Should I just stay away from these very high end neighborhoods? Or should I stop trying for homes where it seems builders are still drooling over? What is a good strategy?

Elizabeth Razzi: Well, they are rather nice neighborhoods you're shopping. If you were willing to pay $100k over asking for a house that needed work, I'd think you'd agree that it was under-priced, no? Perhaps those other crappy houses aren't so under-priced as you think. Maybe you need to broaden your search to some of the other lovely neighborhoods in the metro area.

Maryann Haggerty: Yeah, sounds like you either need to switch your goals or your bids.

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McLean, Va.: Coming from out west, one thing that surprised me about northern Virginia is all of the "townhouses". Why are there so many townhouses in this area? Why don't they have many townhouses elsewhere? I never could understand this. The other question is: is it really a townhouse if it isn't in a town? Isn't there a better name? (My suggestion: "White Collar slums.")

Elizabeth Razzi: There's a simple answer: Land is very expensive here. That's why there are so many townhouses. They used to be called rowhouses -- back when they were only found in actual towns. Actually, some of the happiest years of my life were spent in a "white collar slum." And I'm guessing you haven't been through some of the posh townhouse developments, like the ones priced well over $1 million in the Evans Farm development in McLean. But...No problem if they're not your cup of tea.

Maryann Haggerty: Yes,it's all about land costs. But it's not just Virginia (and suburban Maryland). Northern New Jersey, for instance, has many many townhouses developments. And California does, too -- though out there, they are continually experimenting with designs that allow things such as stacking townhouses on top of each other as well as next to each other, in order to increase density more.

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washingtonpost.com: Real Estate Blog: Local Address

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Washington, DC: We own a three-bedroom row home in NW DC (20009 zip), just a five minute walk to the metro. We currently have it rented out because we did not want to sell in a bad market. We've left the DC area and are trying to decide how much longer before we discontinue renting it out and sell. However, we need some sort of value estimate. Based on your experience, how realistic are Zillow's Zestimates for determining home values? They claim that they're typically off by 10 percent (up or down)...but 10 percent is quite a large range, if you ask me. Also, how hard has the District been hit by the downturn of the market and the foreclosure mess?

Maryann Haggerty: I think 20 percent (10 either way) is a very large range. Zillow estimates are for amusement purposes, not big financial decisions.

We have an article in tomorrow's Real Estate section that offers a bunch of tips on how to set a house's value. I'm sorry; I can't provide a link -- it's not on the Web for a few hours yet. But you can see it tomorrow...

Elizabeth Razzi: Zillow's estimates are interesting, and I like the site overall. But you cannot use those zestimates to set your price. They don't go into the nuanced differences that make one house very different from another; they often don't note the change in values from one nearby jurisdiction to another. You have to do some legwork to set a price. Look at recent closed sales prices on homes like yours. (Trulia is one of the sites that shows them.) And go out and tour some open houses that would be competing with your own home. Good luck!

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Silver Spring: Hi. My husband and I are first time home owners who took advantage of the $7500 tax credit (we bought in October). Our house is in great shape, though there are a couple of projects we can do (tankless water heater, cleaning up the electrical) nothing is really pressing. Are we better off using the money to tackle these projects, or putting it towards making an extra payment or two on our mortgage? Thanks!

Maryann Haggerty: Put that money aside to fatten up your emergency savings. Live in the house a while and get to know it.

Elizabeth Razzi: The phrase "cleaning up the electrical" gives me pause. What, exactly, would you be cleaning up? Is anything a safety hazard? Get that fixed pronto. Niceties, like extra lighting in the kitchen) can wait. Tankless water heaters, while noble from a global warming standpoint, are pretty pricey, especially for first-time homeowners. You might want to shop that a bit more. And while I'm generally a fan of prepaying a mortgage, in this economy I really think socking away some extra cash in an emergency fund is the wise course for most first-time buyers. Later you can start prepaying principal.

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Confused about Tax Credit: Hey. Sold my property about eight months ago and have been renting since. Do I qualify for any of these snazzy tax credits if I buy now? I'm also going to make approximately $200k this year. Does that affect any credit? I looked around on the Web, but the answers I found were confusing. Thanks!

Elizabeth Razzi: Hey. No, it doesn't look like you'd qualify for a first-time buyer tax credit. They're available to people who have not owned a home within the past three years. You might, however, qualify for the Washington, DC, first-time buyer credit, which is available to people who buy for the first time IN THE DISTRICT.

Maryann Haggerty: Actually, you seem to make too much money for the DC credit. The income ceiling for claiming that is $90K AGI for single filers, $130K for joint.

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Alexandria, Va.: We are closing on a single-family house at the end of the month. I know we have to buy lender's title insurance, but I've heard owner's title insurance is optional. What are your thoughts on whether to buy it or decline such coverage? Thank you.

Maryann Haggerty: It has always struck me that this coverage (which is indeed optional) isn't all that expensive. On the one hand, it almost never pays out, because the things it covers are very rare. On the other, I figure if the bank insists on covering itself, there's a reason for that!

Elizabeth Razzi: Yeah, I agree on all points there. And if the bank thinks it needs protection, then I want it too. There is a risk, especially with all the foreclosures and short sales out there, that something is messed up with the title work. And there's always the scenario of the long-past ex-spouse of a previous owner showing up and staking a claim to the place. But talk with the title company and make sure you get their no-frills policy. Sometimes they make the upgraded policy their standard offering. Why pay extra?

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white collar slums?: Ummm, the townhouses they just finished building across the street from my apartment in Courthouse are starting at $1.2 million. Not quite sure they fit in the "slums" category!

Maryann Haggerty: Right.

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Beltsville: Re: Townhouses. Some builders have avoided the townhouse stigma by making sure there's 15-foot strip of grass between neighboring dwellings. A trivial gain, IMHO.

Maryann Haggerty: I have lived in a townhouse for more than 15 years, and I like it.

But let me tell you --a 15-foot strip of grass is not trivial when the kid next door is a teenager with teenage taste in music.

Elizabeth Razzi: As a parent of a teenager, allow me to point out it's the middle-aged parents who blare music. Teens use headphones.

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Arlington, Va.: My fiance and I recently started looking at SFHs in Fairfax County. After talking to our realtor we found that some sellers have started pooling offers again as a result of increased demand. Do you foresee this continuing or is it just the result of normal spring-time buying patterns coupled with low interest rates and some being eligible for new home buyer tax credits?

Elizabeth Razzi: Well, that's the question of the month, isn't it? Maybe of the year, come to think of it. Nothing in this real estate market is normal. The government incentives, including artificially low interest rates, are phenomenal. And, so, I'll just say I wish I knew the answer, but I don't. Anyone else out there hazard a guess?

Maryann Haggerty: Both the president and the chairman of the Fed have pointed to glimmers of hope in the economy in recent days.

To balance that out, Paul Krugman writing today in some other newspaper ran down a list of reasons why the economy is still hopeless.

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Forestville, Md.: Have you noticed if banks are responding quicker when a contract is submitted for a short sale property? I submitted a contract for $10k less than the short sale price and asked the bank to pay 6 percent closing. The property has been on the market for five months and has only had one other offer and according to the real estate agent the couple walked after no response from the bank after three months. The property had actually been taken off the market and had been listed as under contract.

Elizabeth Razzi: Good question. What are you folks seeing out there?

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Orlando, Fla.: Thank you for taking the time to do this chat. My husband and I would like to purchase a home before 12/1 to qualify for the tax credit. We are currently renting, and our lease ends on 10/31. We don't want to pay our lease and mortgage, so ideally we would like to move in/close around the end of October. What should our time line be for getting pre-approved, house shopping, etc. Thank you!

Maryann Haggerty: Right now, check your credit and make sure it's as shiny as possible.

Actual loan approvals don't take very long.

How long do you figure home shopping should take you? You'll want contract in hand by late August to mid-September. If the central Florida market is still flooded with homes, you may find what you want immediately. BUT-- and this is a big but -- if you think you'll be looking at foreclosures or short sales, these are going VERY SLOWLY. Allow yourself extra time -- these can take months.

We'll see if we can find a recent story we ran about foreclosure sale delays...

Elizabeth Razzi: You can negotiate a delayed closing date with the seller. And considering all the desperate sellers in the Orlando area, you may find them quite willing to work with you. Just be sure to write the delayed closing date into your first purchase offer. It would be much harder, and perhaps impossible, to negotiate that after the seller signs your offer.

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washingtonpost.com: "Foreclosure Sales Stalled by Red Tape" (Post, April 13, 2009)

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Choosing a realtor: My thoughts have always been to find a neighborhood you want to buy into, then find the successful realtors who work that neighborhood. You might even get lucky and find a home before it comes on the market -- that's how we bought our current condo. But we'll have a sale as well as a buy next time. I don't think it makes sense to have the same agent for both transactions, since they will be in different neighborhoods. And since there is so much information out there, I could see using Redfin for the buy. (I would never, ever use anyone but an experienced in my neighborhood agent when selling a home.) I guess I don't see the value of using the same agent to sell my home to buy another one. Except, of course, making the agent happy by getting both commissions and possibly working harder to complete my sale. But don't they want to get it sold as fast as they can, regardless?

Maryann Haggerty: I think the reason to use the same agent for both transactions is just that it's simpler to deal with one businessperson you know and trust, rather than with two different people.

If that's not important to you, then you should evaluate each transaction separately. It may turn out that you use the same agent, but only because she's convinces you it's in your best interest to do so.

Elizabeth Razzi: I'm with you, Choosing, about the different neighborhoods point. You do want to choose an agent who knows the individual neighborhood. I can't tell you how many agents have assured me they can work equally effectively in DC, MD and VA (now, that's a huge, varied territory)because they're licensed in all places. And I don't buy the argument. However, if you are working in closeby neighborhoods and one agent truly is familiar with both, there's a simple reason you would keep all your business with the one agent: You can probably negotiate a smaller listing commission if you use that agent to help buy, too.

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7500 tax credit?: Is that a tax credit? Or more like a loan that you have to pay back? I thought that amount was the "loan" and recently another incentive kicked in that is an $8,000 tax credit?

Elizabeth Razzi: Well, you're right. As we noted many times (and Michelle Singletary has gotten particularly worked up over the point) that credit has to be paid back over time. But it does have tax-credit characteristics (as opposed to a tax-deduction) in that it reduces the tax bill dollar for dollar instead of simply reducing your taxable income. It's important to note here that the new $8,000 tax-credit available this year is a true tax credit, which does not have to be repaid.

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Bethesda, Md.: The $8000 tax credit for first time buyers: do I have to live in the home, and do you think it will extended past Dec 1?

Maryann Haggerty: It applies only to homes used as a principal residence.

Whether it will be extended past Dec. 1? That's a question that requires predicting both what will happen to the economy and what will happen in Congress. Ha!

Here's a link to an overview on the IRS Web site:

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=204671,00.html

Elizabeth Razzi: I don't think it dictates that you actually move in by Dec. 1, but you have to close on the property by that date. And it must be a principal residence, which will be noted on your mortgage and other closing documents. Fibbing about that is a form of fraud.

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Obama HASP Modification Plan STILL NOT AVAILABLE: Why is it taking so long for Obama to give the HASP Modification plan to the servicers and lenders? The refinance plan is available but up until this day the modification plan IS NOT available yet. Does it really take over one month to get this out into the pipeline?

Elizabeth Razzi: I'm actually surprised any of this is moving as fast as it has been.

Maryann Haggerty: However, that's a question worth looking into. I wonder if it's just normal bureaucracy, or whether there are still policy details being worked out?

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Silver Spring, Md.: I'm wondering what happened to all the homeowners who sold during the height of the boom . Those folks walked away with what could be called counterfeit equity. People who bought a home in the 70s or 80s for $70k sold for $600k in 2005. Why isn't anyone focusing on the flipside of this downturn. All those who walked away rich while people struggling today are left upside down with all that fake equity owed to the banks.

Maryann Haggerty: "Counterfeit equity?" Interesting concept.

I'm guessing most of them used that cash to buy another home

Elizabeth Razzi: Wow. Were last year's stock gains counterfeit equity, too? What, then, would be real equity?

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Washington, DC: Title insurance: In my experience they often make the upgraded owners title insurance the standard offering. And if you ask you have to keep digging to get them to admit that their is a cheaper alternative.. They do cover different things (one covers things that happened before you bought versus stuff that happens after) but when I asked how often do you see that being necessary he could give me one example that he kept repeating. When I finally said "Any other?" he admitted that that was it. I gambled and took the cheaper policy but you'd have though I was kicking his dog in the process. It was huge big deal to redo all the paperwork. Saved me quite a bit of money as I recall.

Maryann Haggerty: Yes, there are two varieties of owners title. You'll want to see whether you want the less expensive one (which used to be the standard) or the upgraded (which as you point out the salesman wants you to treat as the new standard.) Or none.

Elizabeth Razzi: You were kicking his dog. There's a big commission on title insurance. Good for you, though. Title companies should ask before they draw up the paperwork selling you the upgraded policy.

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Washington, DC: Fifteen years ago, I rented a house in Arlington that I liked very much, in a great location. Today, that house is still being rented, and I'm thinking about asking the owners, who live out of state, whether they'd be interested in selling. What are some of the things I need to consider? Do you have any advice on how to proceed?

Elizabeth Razzi: They might really welcome your inquiry. However, if they've owned the house at least 15 years and had steady, reliable rentals, they may not feel any urgency to sell whatsoever. Research the recent sales prices on similar homes in that neighborhood and come up with a realistic target price. Then I would simply write them a letter, without naming a price yet, asking them if they would be interested in selling to you. Make clear that you're not a real estate agent trawling for listings. (They sometimes write such letters, without even having a serious buyer in the wings.) Point out that you were a good renter years ago to jog their memory. If you proceed, you probably don't have to involve a real estate agent, but a good real estate lawyer can help you draw up contracts.

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Elizabeth Razzi: Chatters! Our colleague Renae Merle would love to speak with folks who have applied for refinances under the Obama plan, including folks underwater. You can reach her at merler@washpost.com

Elizabeth Razzi: One more thing...she's interested in any aspect of the Obama housing plan, including loan modifications....Thanks.

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Martinsburg, W.Va.: The water in our area has lots of calcium and minerals. We've been in our house almost four years - bought when it was new - and we're noticing some potentially major problems. We know we need to get a whole house water softener or treatment system, but are there any ideas on what we should seek to install or avoid for resale and overall home value?

Elizabeth Razzi: Are you on a well or municipal water service? If it's municipal, the folks selling the water may have some advice for you -- or run discounts on water softeners. The County's agricultural extension service might have advice as well. But you sound like a good candidate for a professional home inspection. It will cost a couple of hundred dollars, but a good inspector should be able to tell you if the plumbing is being damaged or other bad stuff is happening.

Maryann Haggerty: An inspector may also be ale to tell you what type of system is standard in your area, and unlike a plumber, he won't try to sell you one.

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MD: Do you have any advice for an intended-first-time buyer who is currently unemployed? He has some savings to put down 20 percent and uses 401k. I forgot to say that he has a great credit.

Maryann Haggerty: I'm sorry, but in addition to good credit, lenders want to see income, or evidence of significant assets.

Also: Don't use your 401K money to buy a house!

Elizabeth Razzi: Seriously, unless he has a large trust fund supporting him, getting a job is job one. Forget about buying a home.

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New Appliances: We're looking to sell in the next year or so and want to put in new appliances. Any thoughts on what is currently hot now?

Elizabeth Razzi: There seems to be genuine interest in energy-saving features. Gas cooking is usually preferred to electric, if gas is available. A lot depends on the price range of your home, but in general, I think there's been a step back from the extravagant stuff. Functional always works. A good, attractive range hood (though not necessarily a design show-stopper). Multiple sinks in a big kitchen, with both being big enough to be really functional, and both with disposers. You might avoid tiny "vegetable" sinks that could be more annoying than useful. And it's extravagant, but I totally understand the desire for multiple dishwashers when you host a crowd. If it's a high-end kitchen, one of those dishwashers might be a set of high-end dishwashing drawers. Have fun.

Maryann Haggerty: In anything but an entry-level house, you also want a nice upgraded refrigerator.

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Re: Forestville, MD: I forgot to mention the owner who was an investor signed off on the contract I submitted as well as the one the bank never responded to. The realtor thinks it has to do with covering the closing cost. Aren't most buyers and sellers expecting to get/pay for closing cost at this time with many foreclosures/short sales? Even new homebuilders are paying for closing cost.

Maryann Haggerty: Private parties and builders are covering closing costs. (Builders were the first ones to jump in with this.)

Banks, not so much. They just aren't very flexible, it seems.

Elizabeth Razzi: I'd make that banks not at all. They're not paying closing costs, making repairs, etc. Don't get too hung up on closing costs! Money is money. All that matters -- to buyer and seller -- is the bottom line.

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Rental laws: I am considering buying an investment property to rent out in VA, MD or DC. But before I do, how do I find out the different landlord/tenant laws for each state/district? Is this information available on the state or county tax sites?

Maryann Haggerty: Yes, that info is available on the Web sites. It's not always easy to find, but it's there. Sometimes it is spread between several Web sites (DC, I'm talking about you) but it is there.

Elizabeth Razzi: You won't generally find it on tax sites. But look for the consumer affairs and other regulatory sites.

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Davidsonville, Md.: Got divorced April 2008. Bought a SF house for $390k. Market tanked. Got engaged. Don't need my house any more. Sell, or rent and wait for prices to maybe rise a bit? Can afford the payments (6 percent loan) and rent would get me just over half of my payment since IU had no money to put down. Thanks.

Maryann Haggerty: If you don't need the cash, consider renting. Why sell now if you don't have to? Even in a good market, you'd expect to take a loss on the sale of a house you have only owned for a year. (Tho a good part of the tanking had already happened when you bought.)

Elizabeth Razzi: Long-term that might be a nice little investment, if you can carry the payments now with reasonable ease. You might consider offering it as a rent-to-own deal, attributing a portion of each month's rent toward the renter's down payment.

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Clifton, Va.: Navy Federal Credit Union offers title insurance at a cost if you use them for a mortgage, saving you significant bucks. No junk fees with them and the three bureau credit report is at a reasonable price but it would be nice if it was at their cost. It isn't.

Maryann Haggerty: Here's a tip for those who are eligible.

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Arlington, Va.: I suppose I am a recipient of some of that counterfeit equity that the poster referred to earlier. My wife and I got married in 2004, bought a condo in Arlington we liked, and then sold and bought a SFH two years later using the (significant) equity we had for a down payment. It's now three years later and while we aren't underwater, the value of our home has certainly gone down (AND we've put in at least $40k in improvements).>So I'm supposed to feel bad for selling my condo at a certain time to take advantage of market conditions? Give me a break.

Maryann Haggerty: I see no reason you should feel bad.

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Clifton, Va.: What is your opinion on investment property these days. In particular, I own a summer rental (beach house) that has been on the market for about two months. I am not upside down, but what do you think will make it more attractive to potential buyers?

Elizabeth Razzi: Well, there's the always-popular price reduction. I'm seeing a lot of vacation homes being sold furnished, which works pretty well if it's nice furniture. Warm weather might help you, too. It's hard to generalize about the investment value of beach houses. If it's a prime spot near the water, your value may have held up pretty well. If it's a sprawling development inland, not so much. Anyone out there familiar with that market?

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Atlanta, Ga.: My house is now worth about 25 percent less than I paid for it. I am not happy about this, but I do still love the house, the neighborhood, etc. Why am I writing? I am current on my mortgage, but don't have enough equity for a refinance. I keep hearing that I should ask my mortgage company (Countrywide) about the president's plan. The reason I am writing is I don't know what to ask once I get on the phone. What exactly do I say? This is a serious inquiry. (I did ask about refi, that's how I found about equity.)

Maryann Haggerty: Take a look at this page on our Web site, which helps you determine whether you're eligible and includes a lot of useful inks:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/foreclosureprevention/

The government's site is www.MakingHomeAffordable.gov.

I'm betting you just ask the loan officer whether they have refinacing available yet "under the president's plan." They should know. Depending on how much you put down, you may or may not be too much underwater for one of these loans.

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Silver Spring, Md.: This is probably a dumb question, but, what the heck, it's anonymous. Anyway, can you explain why interest rates are pushing historic lows? What economic factors are driving it? Is the Treasury Department helping to push/keep rates low to help distressed homeowners to refinance to conventional fixed mortgages? I note that 30 year fixed rates are particularly low. Thanks.

Maryann Haggerty: There has been a conscious effort by the government to push down long-term loan rates (i.e., mortgages.) For instance, the Fed has been buying large amounts of long-term government debt.

Elizabeth Razzi: Not a dumb question at all. It is very decidedly a government-driven push to lower mortgage interest rates. The government wants to get more cash in the hands of homeowners, with the hope that they spend it on something. And they'd like to help people refinance out of high adjustable-rate loans, if they can qualify now.

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for the absentee landlord...: Remember the primary residence rule to avoid capital gains in your house. If you have any equity in your house and you eventually sell it and have lived in it for over two years, you are going to pay taxes on any gains. Maybe that balances out for waiting in a down market, but I shouldn't would want to chance it.

Maryann Haggerty: Yes, an important consideration

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Elizabeth Razzi: Time to run! Thanks, everyone for some very thougtful contributions. See you 'round the blog. Your thoughts are welcome there any time.

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Maryann Haggerty: Oops, we're running out of time here. But there's plenty more you can read about Real Estate:

--Saturday's section looks at the mortgage market for second-home buyers, and also at how you arrive at a value for a house in a slow market.

--Elizabeth's "Local Address" blog is right here at the Web site, every day. Go now and take the poll. While you're there, why not sign up for an RSS feed? It's free, it's easy. And if we didn't get to your question today, we may answer it there next week.

Have a lovely weekend. Get out of the house, enjoy the spring flowers!

Maryann has been a business and real estate editor and reporter for about 25 years. Razzi is the author of two consumer-advice books, "The Fearless Home Buyer" (2006) and "The Fearless Home Seller" (2007). Join their Live Q&A every other Friday at 1 pm.

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