Celebritology Live: Jon & Kate; Kids on Reality TV

You've Been Served... a Heaping Plate of Gossip

Join Celebritology blogger Liz Kelly LIVE every Thursday at 2 p.m. ET to gab about the latest celebrity pairings (and splittings), rising stars (and falling ones), and get the scoop on the latest gossip making waves across the Web.

Celebritology Live Archive

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Liz Kelly: Now that I've gotten my Jon & Kate rant out of my system, I'd like to draw everyone's attention -- again -- to the reality show we should be watching: "Real Housewives of New Jersey." As if the big hair and Carmela Soprano vibe weren't enough, we have been given -- gifted really -- with perhaps the best plot twist ever on a "Real Housewives" franchise: One of them is set to be outed as a former, ummm, "coke whore" (I'm quoting here), drug dealer and extortionist.

I'm not sure how the D.C. version -- in development now -- plans to top that. Or if it's even possible, but I'm interested in who you think should be cast in the D.C. version. Should it be confined to true residents of D.C. or do the outer burbs count, too? And will anyone actually in a position of power in this town really be stupid enough to attach herself to this train wreck?

One minor "Lost" point I wanted to include since the "Lost" chat is on hiatus -- ABC apparently slipped the identity of the four-toed statue into their recap of the finale. Thanks to EW's Doc Jensen for the catch. Apparently we were all wrong. It's apparently Egyptian goddess Taweret. Which just changes everything. (Okay, not really, but it's gotta mean something.)

Finally -- a shout out to the reader I met in line at CVS earlier today. If I came off as surly it was because I was anticipating the usual "we can't find your medication" ritual. It was lovely to meet you, though! You totally made my day.

Let's get started...

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Hot men in uniforms: Daniel Craig and Hugh Jackman will team up in a new play about two Chicago cops this fall on Broadway. Most attractive choices, but why would you hire a Brit and an Aussie to play Chicago policemen, even though both have law enforcement experience of sorts?

Liz Kelly: The same reason you'd hire Kate Winslet to play a German or Hugh Laurie to play an irascible American doc -- they're considered the best fit for the part at the time. Also, in the case of Jackman and Craig -- they're huge names that will doubtless create a nice steady stream of ticket sales for a play that might otherwise go largely unnoticed. I wouldn't be surprised to see more big names hitting Broadway since ticket sales have slumped along with the rest of the economy.

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You can't esc8pe, J&K Plus 8: Liz, last week you said you were tired of the Jon & Kate Gosselin scandal, and were waiting for it to blow over. Well, you can wait for a thunderstorm to blow over, but this week it has turned into a major hurricane. 9.8 million viewers for the season 5 premiere. You can't read a newspaper, watch a news outlet, read a celeb blog, without hearing about it. C'mon, Liz, - let us snark!!!

Liz Kelly: Snark away. I let it all out this morning. Jon and Kate are the story of the week, if not the month. But there's no way they can sustain this intensity. Unless they've got some bigger bombshells waiting in the wings -- like maybe Jon is a Chippendale or Kate's actually wearing a wig.

Liz Kelly: And based on the questions I'm seeing in the queue looks like we're going to be talking about Jon & Kate for the entire hour.

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Washington, D.C.: I read your posting about Jon and Kate and their poor children. I really don't understand how people can watch these kind of shows -- including "Real Housewives" (sorry!). I once went over to a friend's house and she insisted we watch some version of Real Housewives. It was pure torture for me. We almost got into a semi-fight about what to watch. I literally could not stand watching this show. Is something wrong with me, considering how people these shows are?

P.S. I am a fan of "Lost."

Liz Kelly: It's schadenfreude. We watch so we can scoff. Or, to put it more politely, to see how the other half lives. Also, it's bubble gum -- watching Jon and Kate or the Housewives or Rock of Love doesn't require much in the way of brain activity.

At least that's what I think. Any other thoughts?

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Let's say...: You (Liz Kelly) decide that self-promoting celebredom is your fondest wish. How would you market yourself? What would your reality show be?

I'm thinking some cross between "Miami Ink" and those "Animal Planet" shows about shelters and rescues. Tattooed snarkster with a heart of gold, but only for animals, and people get a lot of pithy verbal smackdowns. Maybe Molly Weingarten could consult.

Discuss.

Liz Kelly: I like this question and your suggested hybrid.

I'd add to that a dash of "What Not to Wear" -- as in I get to comment on other peoples' unfortunate wardrobe choices, but I am the one who gets a $5,000 credit card each time. Hmm... maybe add a dash of "Biggest Loser," too, so I could get in some time with a trainer.

But the real reality is I'm a woman who spends most days with a dog, two cats and a computer. Not sure that would be much of a ratings grabber. Unless shut-ins are the next hip thing.

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And based on the questions I'm seeing in the queue looks like we're going to be talking about Jon & Kate for the entire hour. : Okay, but Nicole Ritchie is pregnant again. Can we at least acknowledge that in between J&K posts?

Liz Kelly: Wait -- I thought we already knew that.

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Hot men in uniforms, Chicago-style: Weren't both John Mahoney (Dad, on "Frasier") and Dennis Farina actual Chicago cops who acted part-time with the Steppenwolf company before making the break to full-time acting?

Liz Kelly: According to a quick lookie at Wikipedia, Farina served 18 years as a Chicago cop, but Mahoney -- who was born in Britain -- taught English and served as an editor of a medical journal before making the transition to acting.

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Washington, D.C.: a) If "Real Housewives" includes women who are neither "wives" nor women who stay at home with their kids, I do not see why the D.C. franchise could not include women from the 'burbs. (I'm thinking that some Loudoun housewives would be spectacular...)

b) The Jon and Kate rant was funny -- but you're just giving them more ink. Stop it already. (It reminds me of when people talk about Ann Coulter. Ignore and they will all go away...)

washingtonpost.com: I think we should campaign to get Liz on the show.

Liz Kelly: So you're saying I'm some kind of self-absorbed drama queen who would fit in well with a band of botoxed women in Talbot's suits? Thanks Paul. Thanks a lot.

I had my brush with reality TV a couple of months back taping the pilot for Michelle Obama's hairdresser's supposed upcoming show. That was enough to last me a lifetime. I'd rather sit on the couch.

As for Jon and Kate -- I tried, but it's like trying to stand up straight when being hit by a 40-foot wave.

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Also, it's bubble gum -- watching Jon and Kate or the Housewives or Rock of Love doesn't require much in the way of brain activity. : I think that's true. But also, I watch just for the "thank goodness that's not me" factor. I'm not a big fan of these shows so I don't watch any of them regularly, but when I do watch one I'm just flabbergasted by the people on them. It makes me really thankful for my nice, quiet life.

Liz Kelly: So basically schadenfreude, then?

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KC, MO: Do you think Bravo knew about Danielle's background on RHONJ or did they just luck into the crazy story line in an otherwise boring show?

Liz Kelly: I can't imagine they didn't know about it. She's reality TV gold. You'd have to think a show like that would require a detailed interview and bio -- including simple questions like, "Have you ever been arrested?"

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Seattle, home of SIFF: After a nice chat with Spike Lee, my next choice is Robin Williams - if you ran into him in the lobby for his film or at the after-party, what would YOU ask him?

My son's gaga over him.

Liz Kelly: Hmm, I actually did see Robin Williams a couple of weeks ago at the "Night at the Museum 2" premiere. I kept my trap shut, though, while colleague Jen Chaney interviewed him.

What would I ask Robin Williams? Hmm.... maybe "What were you thinking with the 'Patch Adams' thing?"

Speaking of that premiere -- best line of the night was uttered by Ricky Gervais. He was talking to us and noticed local TV newsman Arch Campbell, complete with moustache and fedora -- next to us in the press line, and said, "Is this guy for real?"

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J&K plus 8: This is the 5th week in a row they've been on the cover of US Weekly. Is the story that big or is there nothing else going on in the world of celebritology. Even the Brad/Angie/Jen triangle gets a week off every now and then.

Liz Kelly: I'm starting to think Bravo has some kind of pay-for-play deal with Us Weekly. It's been a bit overwhelming. Especially when this is usually prime season for stars with bad bikini bod covers.

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So basically schadenfreude, then? : Well not exactly, because I don't really take pleasure in their problems. That's why I'm glad it's not me. It's painful to watch, but I can't turn away once I turn it on.

Liz Kelly: A subtle distinction. Thanks for pointing it out.

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M Street, Washington, D.C.: We watch so we know what not to do in case we ever have 8 kids and decide to allow our children's lives to be exploited, er, filmed.

Liz Kelly: Education. You can never know too much.

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Reality Kids: Maybe you can answer this question I've been wondering about these last couple of days. I don't really watch the TLC shows with the huge ridiculous families (they kinda gross me out) but I do watch the "Real Housewives" (though they are only slightly less gross) and while watching one of the moms taking their kids to acting classes I was wondering what ever happened to all those child labor laws that make TV shows and movies always have to have twin kids to play the parts of small children and limit screen time for minors.

You always here about 'child actors' having crazy restrictions but some of these kids live with cameras in their faces 24/7 and nobody seems to care at all (in fact family/religious groups sometimes seem to promote them).

Is it because the kids are just living their lives and not "acting," even though we all know those shows are more staged then the local high school production of "Guys and Dolls?" Is there a difference between shows like John and Kate that are supposed to be about the "family" as opposed to the Housewives which are really more about the women and the kids are only on screen for a few minutes each week and are for the most part a lot older then the kids featured on the family shows?

washingtonpost.com: Celebritology Legal Dream Team, activate!

Liz Kelly: What Paul said --

That is a really good question, though. Parental consent or not, these kids are still minors and so unable to decide on their own whether they are okay with living their lives on TV.

And in a way it's almost worse than a child who is acting. At least in that case -- playing a fictional character -- a child's privacy is someone preserved. But with reality TV we see where they live, where they go to school, their meltdowns, etc...

There oughta be a law!

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Atlanta: I'm absolutely not a fan of reality TV, not "Survivor," not any of the Housewives, or any of the things on VH1, Jon & Kate, etc. It bothers me a lot that so many people have become watchers instead of doers. Sure it's snarkable, schadenfreude, etc., but so much of it is unseemly, fake, de-edifying. When you watch those shows, do you really feel better afterward, or do you think, "there's an hour of my life I'll never get back"?

I know I probably sound like a joyless prig but I'm not, really, I love life and I love good entertainment. But reality TV leaves me cold.

Liz Kelly: No, no -- you don't sound like a joyless prig. I'm sure you, too, have a preferred method of turning your brain off and vegging out. Maybe you just happen to watch "Star Trek" reruns or "Bass Masters." We all have our poison.

But, to answer your question, I usually think "there's an hour of my life I'll never get back." But I know if it hadn't been spent watching "Daisy of Love," it would have been something similarly undemanding.

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Washington, D.C.: J&K and cable/reality TV in general: Remember when TLC was The Learning Channel and it actually aired shows to make you, uh, learn? Remember when Bravo was a true arts channel? (I swear, I saw a documentary about Dame Judi Dench in a revival of A Little Night Music on there about ten years ago.)

The fact is, this stuff is cheap to make and endlessly replicable. The other fact is, as H.L. Mencken put it so vividly, "No one ever went broke by underestimating the intelligence of the American public."

Liz Kelly: I do. TLC should change its name at this point. The ________ Channel. I'll take suggestions, but it has to start with an "L."

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methinks: Liz, It's been forEVER since there was a good couch jumping celebrity breakdown type thing happening. What's the deal with that? I think we're due. By the way, are you and Jen going back to ComicCon this year?

Liz Kelly: Jen is headed to ComicCon this year, but not as an official post.com envoy. Unless something changes, I'm not going to make it. The newspaper industry slow down has obviously hit hard when they can't even afford to send two Web staffers to a pop culture fest.

It's a crying shame.

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Washington, D.C. : They're going to pass off a bunch of NOVA new money technology wives as D.C. and call it a show. One season tops.

Liz Kelly: Agreed. I'm thinking Tysons Galleria will loom large.

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Los Angeles: As someone pointed out earlier in the blog, the unfortunate result of J&K and the Duggars and anyone else making a living off of having a freakishly large family is ... the tetradacamom. When the answer to "I'm dumb, mentally unstable and can't get work, how do I cash in?" turns out to be "reproduce" we all suffer for it.

Liz Kelly: True -- though I think the ones who will suffer the most are, unfortunately, those kids. What will it do to the Gosselin brood to grow up in this kind of environment? Again, this gets back to the idea of the legality -- or rather the ethics -- of allowing kids to be dragged into these shows.

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Dupont Circle: The Loser Channel

Liz Kelly: Yes, a solid choice.

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T_C: "Litter" (garbage or many kids - you decide)

Liz Kelly: Another entry...

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washingtonpost.com: No no, I'm suggesting it would be highly entertaining to have you on the show making pithy putdowns about the self-absorbed drama queens in Talbots suits.

washingtonpost.com: No no, I'm suggesting it would be highly entertaining to have you on the show making pithy putdowns about the self-absorbed drama queens in Talbots suits.

Liz Kelly: Maybe the D.C. version could be produced ala "Pop Up Video" and I could type barbs into little bubbles that would caption each show.

That would rock.

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Hartford, Conn.: We heard that Jennifer Lopez walked away from a reality show because the producers wanted to include her children and JLo did not. Good mother points to her?

Liz Kelly: Sure. Everything's relative.

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Cynical?: Is it just me or does the timing of the Jon and Kate relationship turmoil seem too terribly contrived? I can imagine two scenarios: (1) a TLC producer leaked this drama to put in the tabs to build interest in the new season; or (2) Jon and/or Kate engineered this drama as a way to leverage more money, interest, contract renewal, etc.

I don't know. I had no clue who the Gosselins were before all this happened. It just feels very calculated. By whom, I don't know...

Liz Kelly: It's not just you at all. I said as much in my piece this morning. The bombshells started dropping in the last couple of weeks -- right before Monday's season premiere which, not surprisingly, drew over 9 million viewers.

It would seem the TLC publicists borrowed a page from Jennifer Aniston's playbook.

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Springfield, Va.: Liz - I don't understand your venom when it comes to Evangeline Lilly. She is no different than any of the other young attractive actors who have been lucky enough to land on a TV show or movie that becomes a surprise hit. She might turn out to be a one hit wonder, but so what. Everyone, including actors, value their privacy so is it really so horrible to complain about the intrusive paparazzi. I think she is more commendable then most of the celebs you talk about. I haven't read any stories about Evangeline using drugs, getting arrested, falling down drunk in public, breaking up marriages, having anorexia, or dating a conman or thug.

Liz Kelly: We're all of us entitled to our own likes and dislikes. Turns out I dislike Evangeline Lilly. I don't think she's much of an actor, especially when stacked up against "Lost" castmates like Michael Emerson, Terry O'Quinn and even Elizabeth Mitchell. And that would be fine -- she does a serviceable enough job.

The true annoyance comes from her presumption to superstardom -- even from the show's early days she was complaining about being a star, about the annoyance of being recognized. Then she once said she viewed herself as similar to Cate Blanchett. (In that they're both female, maybe.)

And, as I wrote earlier this week, her latest quote about passing on the opportunity to be the next Angelina Jolie is just over the top.

She's no Blanchett, no Jolie and once "Lost" is gone, I'm suspecting she'll fade away, too.

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Literary News: So Mary Jo Buttafuoco and Jody Sweetin are writing their memoirs. Are they also planning on inventing a time-machine, so they can sell their books to someone who gives a rat's tucchus about them?

Liz Kelly: HA! That maybe be the quote of the week.

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Ishkabibble: can we have a face-off between Brooke and Heincer's "blond on a beach" videos? I DO hesitate at offering any semblance of support for either video, but the opportunity is TOO delicious. (Which is worse? Shoddy camera work, or the inability to lip sync your own song?)

Liz Kelly: Ish -- I saw your similar comment in the blog yesterday and saved it for Celebritology Honors time this fall. We will SO have a "worst blond on a beach" video category.

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Child Labor Laws and Reality TV: Child Labor Laws are, state specific. Because of the entertainment industry and the implications for child actors, California has some of the strictest...

So, it's really not a stretch to take a look at it and notice - not a lot, if any, reality shows with kids in them film in CA.

Remember that "Kid Nation" show? That one was filmed in New Mexico for the sole purpose of skirting child labor laws.

Liz Kelly: Interesting -- thanks for the insight.

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child labor laws: There was a story about this on e! online a few days ago. But the answer is essentially what the questioner suspected.

washingtonpost.com: Do Child Labor Laws Apply to Jon & Kate's Kids?

Liz Kelly: I shouldn't be surprised that the fab Answer Bitch already covered this. Here's the crux of Leslie's answer:

Translation: When a TV show has a script, kids can only work a set number of hours per day, they must have a certain number of breaks per day, and they must have on-set tutors to ensure their studies do not slide.

A reality-show camera can track children from morning to night, parents can rake in wagonloads of cash, and Moretti knows of no laws that can change that on behalf of the child.

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Nosy Parker: The Lookatme Channel? The Licentious Channel?

Liz Kelly: Hmm, I like "lookatme."

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Pop Up Video!: God I loved that show. When will VH1 bring that back? My brother and I could literally lose hours to a PUV marathon giggling at the random stuff that ends up in the bubbles. Good times.

Liz Kelly: Every now and then they play reruns of old episodes. I would love it if they brought it back for new vids, tho. There is a lot of snark going unremarked.

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still learning: I always wondered what "schadenfreude" meant and was too lazy to look it up. Now I know from this clever banter. Thanks.

washingtonpost.com: Not an Avenue Q fan? (YouTube, probably NSFW.)

Liz Kelly: Did I miss Avenue Q's D.C. run?

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Nosy Parker: What cataclysm will be required to shove J&K+8 out of the tabloid spotlight? A Brangelina/Jen 3-some? Clooney tying the knot? Other chatters have ideas?

washingtonpost.com: LiLo dating Britney?

Liz Kelly: Jennifer Aniston dating K-Fed.
Katie Holmes writing a tell-all.

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Show prep tweet: Liz, How do you "prep" for the online chat? Gather the tools of your trade around you?

Liz Kelly: It's top secret, but I can confidently state that it doesn't violate any child labor laws.

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washingtonpost.com: Liz, do you think we're getting near the point that TLC could greenlight Jack Donaghy's MILF Island?

washingtonpost.com: Liz, do you think we're getting near the point that TLC could greenlight Jack Donaghy's MILF Island?

Liz Kelly: The Cougar is basically MILF island, eh?

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Washington, D.C.: The Lobotomy Channel

Liz Kelly: Oh -- this is our winner.

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JK +8: when you sell your soul to the devil, you have to deal with him. J & K sold their souls for a bit of money, a tummy tuck and hair implants. Now they have to deal with the fallout. I don't feel bad for them for a minute.

The kids should sue them when they get older.

washingtonpost.com: On the other hand -- does anyone think they would be up for parents of the year even if they weren't on TV? Those kids were going to have a rough time either way, at least this way they have financial security.

Liz Kelly: Financial security at what cost, Paul? Their privacy? Their innocence? Their mother's humility?

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The H8: I'm torn over even submitting this because I don't want to give Jon & Kate any more publicity, yet here I am... I'm by no means a regular viewer, but I've watched the show over the years. I always found her unbearable, while weening a bit of sympathy her way because ain't no way I'd ever want to trade places. I figured she had to be neurotic to be able to survive in the first place and that he had to be extremely passive/docile/indifferent to ever tolerate her. The more I saw, the more I questioned her motivation b/c they were always getting free loot, trip and TV appearances. Made me wonder how much time they actually spent with the kids when the cameras weren't around.

Then I caught one of those "before we were stars" type episodes where they candidly mentioned that her family did not attend their wedding and that they remained estranged. Got me thinking that with all of the angst and drama, there seems to be one common denominator: Kate.

So after really giving all of this too much thought, I do have to say that I wish they would stop for the sake of the kids. Tour the country, sell your books, but please, please, please, take the cameras off of the children.

Liz Kelly: Thanks for sharing. I don't have anything to add, but thought you made some good points.

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RPatz: So, Liz, is there a consensus on whether Pattinson's abs were real or painted on in those viral shirtless pics yesterday?

washingtonpost.com: EW: Robert Pattinson. Shirtless. Filming 'New Moon.' Yes!

Liz Kelly: Tough call, but I'm thinking they're real.

Gulp.

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replacing J&K+8: Open casting calls for "George Clooney's Next Top Waitress"

Liz Kelly: Good one, but according to reports earlier this week that position is filled right now by Florida waitress (and aspiring actress) Lucy Wolvert.

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Not a network programming office, honest: Okay, how about this: a reality show of the lives of Washington Post reporters. Somehow I think Milbank, Weingarten, and Kelly could carry that show all by themselves.

washingtonpost.com: Al Kamen make Gary Busey look like Mother Teresa.

Liz Kelly: Except two out of three of your cast spend most of their work days at home. Again, I'm not sure an unshowered Weingarten is the kind of thing that will bring 9 million viewers to the table.

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From Somewhere Deep in the Jungle: Hi Liz,

What's the fallout from Spencer failing this medical screening or whatever for "I'm a Celebrity...?"

I was under the distinct impression from the commercials that I was going to be able to use my Cell Phone to shoot bees at Heincer. Have my dreams been dashed?

Liz Kelly: No fallout -- yet. I assume Spencer is doing his utmost to boost his blood platelet count in time to show up for the season premiere along with castmates Heidi, Kevin Federline, Stephen Baldwin, Janice Dickinson and Lou Diamond Phillips.

And this is as good a time as any to announce that we'll be following "I'm a Celebrity..." closely in the blog with a quick-hit next-day analysis. And when I say analysis, I mean all the snark you can shovel -- so set your DVRs to start recording:

The new series will debut as a two-hour television event on Monday, June 1 (8-10 PM) and will follow with broadcasts on Mondays through Thursdays (8-9 PM) for the first three weeks. During the fourth week of June, the series will be telecast Monday through Wednesday (8-9 PM) with the finale on Wednesday, June 24 (8-9 PM). (Source)

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Housewives: It amazes me that someone (Danielle) could be so arrogant as to think her past wouldn't come out if she subjected herself to filming by Bravo. I'm scared to go on a reality show for many reasons, one of them including that sometimes at work I say not-so-nice things about my boyfriend and I worry he'd be upset. If they catch you doing dumb stuff like that on tv, you think those crazy mafia wives wouldn't publicize that you were a coke whore?!?!

Liz Kelly: Well, and not to be too crass here, but one of the other NJ Wives this week described Danielle's 26-year-old boyfriend as only going over to her (Danielle's) house for his daily [something we can't type here on post.com, but By Jove, use your imagination.]

I mean, really?

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Arlington, Va.: Yes! I agree with you completely on the Evangeline Lilly thing. I guarantee that 99% of people who don't watch Lost have no idea who she is. I am mildly obsessed with celebrity gossip and even I have zero interest in whether she is dating the hobbit guy. Nothing irritates me more (celebrity-wise) than those who take themselves too seriously and presume to be a superstar when they are not. One has to earn that entitled, bitchy attitude with years of mediocre work and public relationships until you're spit out the bottom of the Lifetime movie industry with a frozen face and pill addiction.

Liz Kelly: Thank you. I am vindicated.

Oh, and she hasn't been dating Hobbit guy (Dominic Monahan) for a year or so.

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MILF island: No reality show can top, in terms of "wrongness" that show where couples were thrown on an island with hot singles who were trying to break them up.

washingtonpost.com: Temptation Island! My favorite reality show of all time.

Liz Kelly: Ooh, that was a good one.

Though I still miss long-gone "Bands on the Run." We still remember you, Flickerstick!

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Security? : I have to agree J+K can't keep this up forever, meaning they will be left with an expensive lifestyle with no way to sustain it. At that point, there won't be financial stability for the kids. Their trusts will be drained faster that Kate can run two loads of laundry.

But Paul's point is a valid one, and points to the obvious: bad parents make bad decisions for their kids.

Liz Kelly: Right o.

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DC Capitol Hill: The Real Housewives of DC? Yea, right. I said to my partner that they might as well be calling it The Real Housewives of McLean because none of the monied and/or powerbroker women in D.C. would ever be caught dead on that show. No matter what, it's always been women who are anxious to climb the local social ladder in one way or another and their "target" ladies of D.C. have no reason to play that game.

Liz Kelly: Agreed. I'm thinking we'll see some of the same people that populate the self-involved society pages of Washingtonian?

Though they might be able to attract the Marlene Cook types. I wonder if Dan Snyder's wife has been approached.

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Already Real: Liz already has her own reality show in this chat, where Producer Paul plays Elinor Clift to her John McLaughlin. Except she's better.

Liz Kelly: New Topic: That's all the time we have for today. Join us next week for another thrilling hour of the Jon & Kate Plus 8 chat in which we'll be discussing Kate's hair -- intimacy-making or intimidating?

Okay folks, thanks so much for joining me today. Another reminder of why htis is my favorite hour of the week. See you here next time and in the blog tomorrow!

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