Real Wheels

Washington Post cars columnist Warren Brown was online Friday, June 12, at 11 a.m. ET to discuss the auto industry and offer purchase advice to readers. Brown has covered the cars industry for The Washington Post since 1982.

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Short Commute: I commute less than 15 miles round trip each day. An all-electric car would be ideal, as I would never need to engage the gas engine in a typical work week. However, the only options that look like they're anywhere near commercialization are way too expensive to justify getting rid of my current ICE car. Even the hybrid solutions are not cost effective for me, as I use so little gas/month. When are short haul commuters going to see a true electric option?

Or is it more likely that reasonable bicycle lanes will be installed in Tyson's before cheap alternative-fuel cars are?

Warren Brown: My friend, Miles Rubin, says he has the car for you--an all-electric car that looks like a car, feels like a car, and is capable of moderate highway travel on electric power. I plan to take a look at the car, the second iteration of the Miles Electric, later today. I'll get back to you on efficacy of purchase after that. Meanwhile, assuming you can get to and from work using only surface streets, there are the urban runner elctrics from Global Electric Motors (GEM), which was a subsidiary of the old Chrysler LLC. Oh, and check out more possibilities at www.greencarjournal.com. Also, have you driven the Ford Fusion Hybrid? Here's strongly suggesting that you do so.

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Kensington, Md.: GM's Vice Chairman Bob Lutz was quoted in Sunday's Post as saying that we should be building "cars that Americans want to buy," and it's hard to argue with that.

But isn't what "Americans want to buy" dependent on the cooperation of the oil producers to keep their prices down? And if they don't cooperate, as has happened before and will happen again, what happens then to the sales of those "cars that Americans want to buy"?

You could (and still can) see acres of used car lots filled with unsellable gas guzzlers. Who's going to be buying them if the oil sheikhs don't cooperate? And what's going to happen to the price of oil when the world economy picks up and those hundreds of millions of Indians and Chinese consumers start deciding to replace their bicycles with automobiles? These are the sort of questions that the Bob Lutzes of the world don't like to answer.

Warren Brown: I read that story. I didn't particularly like it because, knowing Lutz and how he talks and thinks, as well as how he is so easily misinterpreted, he is taken out of context more often than not, which appears to have happened in the Post's piece.

Lutz translated:

Car companies, foreign and domestic, build big cars and trucks for the U.S. market because that is what the U.S. market historically has demanded.

Car companies, foreign and domestic, have no qualms about rolling out smaller, more fuel-economical cars, as long as those cars can be built, distributed and sold at a profit the way they are in Europe and Asia.

Small, fuel-efficient cars have a profitable overseas presence because consumers in those places see value in small, fuel-efficient vehicles.

Why?

Because gasoline is expensive in Europe and Asia, partly because those places must import most of their oil, but also because governments in those places tax motor petrol at a high rate. Overseas governments also place taxes on things such as engine displacement and C02 output.

But, as Lutz repeatedly has noted, "the United States isn't Europe or Japan."

Translation:

Politicians overseas say they want cleaner, more fuel-efficient cars. They tax accordingly. U.S. politicians say they want cleaner, more fuel-efficient cars. They put the entire burden for that automotive transformation on the backs of automobile manufacturers, while doing next to nothing (and the cash-for-clunkers bill is next to nothing) to ask consumers to help bring that transformation about.

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Toyota Rav4: What's the data on reliability and safety? Thanks!

Warren Brown: All good. Check reports from Auto Pacific, Consumer Reports, J.D. Power & Associates.

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Dumfries, Va.: What do you hear about the "clunkers bill" in Congress? I have 12 year old Explorer that still runs good, but I am thinking about a new car.

Warren Brown: Morning, Dumfries.

The bill passed the House. Now winding its way through the Senate, where it probably will pass.

In effect, it will help to jump-start car sales. Whether it will reduce overall national fuel consumption is another matter. Here's why:

. If you truly need something as big as your Explorer, you are not likely to want, need, or buy something smaller.

. Let's say you buy a hybrid SUV. Currently, even the more advanced dual-mode hybrid types are designed to save more gas in urban traffic. What will you save by putting it on the highway every day?

. Let's say you dump your SUV for a more fuel-economical car. Cars, as a group, hybrid or otherwise, save more fuel than trucks. Couldn't you have done that without taxpayers giving you a $3,500 inventive to do so? Exactly, what are we paying for? How will your guzzler be disposed? Does it make sense to trash a perfectly good vehicle to get a tax incentive to buy another perfectly good vehicle? Where are the savings in that for you (your replacement vehicle comes with financing, finance charges, taxes and fees)? How much energy is involved in trashing guzzlers to produce supposed sippers? Is there a net gain in energy conservation? Would you/we have been better off environmentally by keeping your "guzzler" but, perhaps, using it more sensibly?

Finally, with a more efficient vehicle combined with what remains the cheapest gasoline in the developed world, will you be driving more, or less?

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KIA Rondo: Warren, what do you think of this car? It seems like a good option for my family, but I'm wondering how reliable it is. Also looking at the Honda CRV and Subaru Forrester, but I prefer how the Rondo seems more like a small wagon and less like a small SUV. At least the older models I've seen do. Maybe they are also moving in that small SUV direction with the new models.

Thanks.

Warren Brown: The Kia Rondo is a perfectly good hauler of families and their stuff. It is less than attractive stylistically. But eye-popping design isn't the reason to buy this one. It's a utility/service vehicle, as safe and reliable as the Subaru Forrester and Honda CR-V. It's not nearly as much fun to drive as those Japanese rivals. But it comes with a better warranty.

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Fairfax, Va.: I don't understand why electric motors would be more efficient than gas motors. Could all cars just have a generator that creates the electricity? I would think that you loose something with the storage and transmission process.

Warren Brown: Your point is well-taken, Fairfax. The laws of thermodynamics still rule. Neither the production nor use of energy, regardless of source or type, comes free of charge. A gain here usually translates to a loss there.

Electric car advantages: Elimination of mobile-source pollution. Less reliance oil-based products. Direct propulsion--wheels driven by electric motors require no transmission.

Disadvantages: With plug-in types, that electricity has to come from somewhere, be produced maybe via that oil-fired, coal-fired, or nuclear powered plant down the way (but not in your backyard).

Remember thermodynamics, the bit about energy being neither created nor destroyed, but transferred from one state to another. When those electric car batteries are depleted of useful energy, where will they go? Philippines? Madagascar? South America? South Africa? Someone else's backyard?

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Mobile, AL AWD: Warren, I listened to T. Boone Pickens on Mississippi Public Broadcasting this morning. He drives a Honda Civic GX. Have you had any experience with the Natural Gas vehicles? NG company add a pump in your garage. He said, GM makes over a dozen NG vehicles, none here, South America and Europe. He said he spends $1 a gallon on NG.

Warren Brown: Yep.

Pickens has a point.

I've driven many CNG (compressed natural gas) models. They work just fine, but tend to have a shorter driving range than gasoline models. Honda sells its Civic natural gas model in tandem with a home-fill CNG station. Makes sense. And, yes, GM sells CNG models in places such as Brazil.

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Cash for Clunkers: Seems like a pretty simple rationale: the taxpayers and/or unions own GM. Making it more attractive to buy a new car helps GM. The taxpayers benefit because GM sells more cars. The administration doesn't mind using our own money to sell ourselves our own cars, because "all glory to the state," right? That is what 53% of the people who voted wanted, isn't it?

Warren Brown: It makes sense for the short-term gain of jump-starting stalled automobile sales. But, again, I see no guarantee that cash-for-clunkers makes long-term environmental or business sense absent a long-term, revenue generating mechanism (for industry and government).

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Washington, D.C.: Is the Hyundai Genesis as good as most of the reviews make out? This is new territory for Hyundai.

Warren Brown: Yes. But I much prefer the sedan version of the Genesis. The coupe version now in our possession feels a tad cheap. But, overall, the Genesis represents a strong move forward by Hyundai in the North American market.

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Pittsburgh, Pa.: Read your review on the Benz this past Sunday. One important item was left out of the spec details. CUPHOLDERS. Don't you know Americans are more concerned about how many CUPHOLDERS a car has than anything else?

Warren Brown: I only comment on cup holders in minivans. Otherwise, I tend to ignore them.

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washingtonpost.com: Warren Brown's review of the 2009 Mercedes-Benz S63 AMG (Post, Sunday, June 7, 2009.)

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Cars Americans "Want to Buy": Why does your explanation focus on Europe and not GM's competition domestically from foreign manufacturers? Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, VW etc. have had no problem selling "small, fuel efficient vehicles" that people "wanted to buy" here in the States.

When I was in the market for a new car about 5 years ago, the only thing GM was offering me was 28 different trucks or SUVs and maybe 2 or 3 smaller commuter cars that were ugly, terrible to drive, and cheaply made.

Warren Brown: Baloney.

In the U.S., Honda, Nissan and Toyota--especially Nissan and Toyota--made their money the old-fashioned way, selling SUVs, sports cars, luxury and near-luxury sedans, and trucks.

Honda was the only company that flirted with, but stayed away from V-8 engines. And had the global economy not collapsed, it is a safe bet that Honda would've gone ahead and did what Hyundai did anyway--introduce a V-8 in the U.S. marketplace.

Small cars were non-starters in a market awash in cheap gasoline. That's largely why Toyota concentrated on rolling out bigger and better trucks, as opposed to really doing something to improve its little Corolla.

Nobody lined up to buy the itty-bitty Toyota Yaris. And the Honda Fit took off only when gasoline prices in the United States took off in the summer of 2008.

It's time for us to dump the hypocrisy and face the easily documented truth:

We didn't give a darn about small cars in this country until we started feeling pain at the pump. I challenge you to show us ANY statistics that prove otherwise.

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Arlington, Va.: Warren, what is your opinion of the Hyundai Elantra? Is it as good a value as the Hyundai Sonata in its class? Thanks.

Warren Brown: The Elantra is a well-designed, very affordable, compact car that comes with the best warranty in the business. Ditto the Sonata in the mid-size car category. In terms of quality, purchase price and warranty protection, that makes them two of the vey best values in the automotive retail market.

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"The United States isn't Europe or Japan." : And therein lies the issue. You can drive from Paris to Prague in less time than it takes drive from Tyler to Topeka. Taxation policies like Japan's won't work here.

Warren Brown: That's apples-oranges nonsense. It makes better economic and environmental sense to drive from Tyler to Topeka in a good car that gets at least 35 mpg than it does in one that barely gets 20. I drive from Northern Virginia to upstate New York every other week. I drive cross-country at least twice yearly. I seldom see gas-guzzling automobiles on those trips. As for trucks, I see them doing what most trucks are designed to do--hauling lots of people and stuff, rendering "efficiency"--the amount of fuel used per unit of work done--through use.

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Silver Spring, Md.: Warren, I had my 96 Acura Integra stolen just yesterday. I've filed a police report and talked to my insurance co. I'm faced with replacing the stolen car. Is there a website with good info. on the latest car incentives and deals? Thanks.

Warren Brown: Yes, Silver Spring:

Check out the site for Automotive News (www.automotivenews.com), also www.thecarconnection.com, www.cars.com (Washington Post affiliate), www.edmunds.com (the "u" in the name is correct), www.greencarjournal.com, and www.kbb.com.

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Honda Fit: Did you see the insurance institute's report on damage from low speed collisions? Care to comment on the results? My Fit did not do well, because "the rear bumper is in the wrong place". I imagine they are correct - that bumper is pretty low. However, I skimmed through the rest of the vehicles on the list (in all classes) and very very few scored in the acceptable range. This includes midsized cars and minivans. Looking at the repair costs as a total fraction of new car value, and consequently scoring small cars (that are relatively inexpensive to purchase) seems odd. Isn't the insurer out the same cost for a $1000 fix on a Fit as they are for a $1000 fix on a Buick?

Warren Brown: Auto insurers understandably want to limit their risks (amounts paid on repair claims, for example) as much as possible. You can't guarantee type of collision in advance. Life is awfully random: You buy a car that has lower repair costs than a Fit; and then you run into a tree, or a tree falls on your car.

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Over here in a big city, U.S.: Warren, I see the North American market as urban, sub-urban and rural. GM Ford and Chrysler dominate rural and the outer suburbs but don't compete for the rich urban customer. Toyota, Nissan & Honda and their German counterparts dominate urban and are very competitive in the suburbs. And recently the Japanese have brought the fight to rural with well made trucks. I think GM & Ford can be successful if they challenge for the urban market. Right now they have no alternative to the Civic or the Prius. While the hybrid Fusion with 41 mpg is nice how about a Hybrid Focus that gets 50 mpg and maybe an upscale version with leather? I would love to buy American but nothing fits for me.

Warren Brown: Well, big city:

GM and Ford are doing quite well in your region--GM with the Chevrolet Malibu mid-size and Cadillac CTS and Ford with its Fusion mid-size and Lincoln MKZ.

Ford's Fusion Hybrid beats the wheels off both the Toyota Prius and Camry hybrids. Don't believe me? Take a few comparison test drives.

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Arlington, Va.: The problem with electric vehicles is if you are heading to upstate NY or down to Atlanta you have to rent something else. Heading to the beach with AC running on Saturday morning for a week would be dicey with the current range. The Chevy Volt is a nice compromise. Also remember that the Japanese govt is subsidizing the price of all Toyota hybrids with a $4k to $6k for each hybrid sold.

Most folks don't want to deal with renting something.

Warren Brown: I can't argue much with any of that, Arlington.

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Warren Brown: Geez! Time flies. Thank you for joining us today. Please come back next week.

Thanks for producing, Sakina.

Eat lunch, Ria.

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Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions. washingtonpost.com is not responsible for any content posted by third parties.