Tucker Carlson and Ana Marie Cox: Palin's Potential, Obama and Iran, More

Tucker Carlson. Ana Marie Cox. He's conservative. She's liberal. They both write for The Daily Beast, he's a contributor to Fox News and she's a national correspondent for Air America Radio. They were online Tuesday, June 16 at noon ET to offer their analysis of the Obama presidency and other goings-on in the world of politics.

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Tenleytown: There's a lot of talk about Obama's silence so far on the Iran elections. Why does it matter? It seems that this may be the best way to go for the U.S. In other words- sure we might wish the winner would just disappear- but we're respecting democracy and for once letting a country decide how it wants to handle allegations. I mean, the alternative is to go crazy, so there's no way the election was fair, draw ire from Iran and the rest of the Muslim world because we're denouncing a country's process and pretty much sayign they can't do anything right. Let their own people, and their own system solve this. I seem to recall the U.S. had a heck of a time in its past that we solved on our own and it made us stronger.

Tucker Carlson: Happy Tuesday!

First of all, the purpose of American foreign policy is not to encourage democracy in foreign countries, despite the claims of the previous administration, but to protect and advance American interests. (Democracy in certain countries -- Saudi Arabia and Jordan come to mind -- would hardly help us or the world.) So we're under no obligation to approve of the election results in Iran, whether or not the process was rigged.

Second, why shouldn't we publicly support Mousavi? We know that many of the pro-reform (and hence pro-American) elements in Iran are backing him. In his public statements, Mousavi comes across as far more open to the west -- and considerably less crazy -- than Ahmadinejad. His election would seem to be a good thing for us.

Why hasn't the administration come out with a statement of support? According to the White House, an endorsement from Obama would be counter-productive, because the US is so unpopular in Iran.

Nonsense. Did US support of Solidarity sink Lech Walesa in Soviet-backed Poland? Of course not. It strengthened him.

I'm beginning to think the White House isn't sure what to think of what's happening in Iran. Which is scary. Obama strikes me as over his head on foreign policy. He ought to be consulting more often with Biden, who actually knows what he's doing.

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Atlanta, GA: Ana: What is Tucker's TIE THREAT LEVEL?

Tucker Carlson: We're in different places, so Ana hasn't seen today's neckwear choice. But trust me, it's extremely high.

Ana Marie Cox: Tucker is a constant threat.

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Concerned, Wisconsin: I'm glad the government has it's priorities in order and getting the FDA to regulate cigarettes seems like a good idea to me because I know I can trust the government to keep our food supply, water, air, children's toys and medicines safe. Now if we could get them to go after that evil whiskey we might all have a chance to live better lives.

Tucker Carlson: You're on to something, Wisconsin. Want to save thousands of lives? Improve the culture? Rescue children from poverty? Balance the budget? Then tax the hell out of alcohol -- a drug that's caused far more suffering for far longer than tobacco, by the way.

It'll never happen. Not because the administration and congress believe you have a right to make your own decisions about how you live -- they emphatically don't -- but because most voters in this country drink. And you can't get reelected by attacking the majority. So instead Obama goes after unpopular minorities like smokers and fat people. Cowardly but understandable. What drives me crazy is the overheated moralizing that accompanies what is basically a power-grab posing as a public health measure: We're doing this for the children, etc....

Barf. Spare me.

Ana Marie Cox: It also much easier to make your own alcoholic beverages than grow your own cigarettes. I'm not saying I think the gov't should take any steps in that direction, but I AM PREPARED.

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Houston: From my little corner of the world, Palin seems like a caricature. A joke. Someone who could never seriously be expected to win a race for the White House. Am I misreading America's reaction to her?

Ana Marie Cox: I think you're not misreading the coverage of her. I think there are very sincere people out there who personally take her very seriously, however, and who feel like she represents a point of view that they don't see elsewhere -- and those of us who would like to raise the level of political debate are not doing ourselves any favors when we ignore those who find her (and her story) compelling.

All that said, I don't know if she did herself any favors in the whole Letterman thing -- it was not the kind of behavior you expect from a candidate -- but we in the media were not terribly responsible in how we covered it, either. (I.e., in covering her as if the situation WAS a political one.)

Tucker Carlson: That's certainly how the entire national press corps sees her. And there's no doubt she's mismanaged her image pretty dramatically. Responding to Levi (was that his name?) in public was really stupid. Huge mistake. And there were others.

On the other hand, she single-handedly changed the narrative of last year's Republican convention -- not something vice presidential candidates typically do. She's talented and forceful. And there's no question she has the capacity to speak for a large group of people. I've always thought the Palin story was fundamentally about abortion. If you oppose it, you tend to like her. If you support it (and this includes virtually every single person in the media), you don't.

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Washington, DC: A poster on the earlier Politics chat wrote:

"David Letterman has now apologized repeatedly in public for his Palin-daughter/A-Rod joke. Yet some supporters of Sarah Palin are still calling for his firing."

Kind of reminds me of when Imus apologized a million times and still got fired at the urging of most liberal groups. Now what Imus said was idiotic (and not funny at all, I was listening live when it happened and thought that it was stupid) but why is what Letterman said any less bad? He 1. joked about the rape of a 14 year old and 2. called a female politician a slutty flight attendant. If Imus aid this about Michelle Obama he'd be out on his butt again. Thoughts?

Tucker Carlson: Both Imus and Letterman strike me as sad, weird, lonely bitter people. And I wouldn't jump to defend either of those remarks.

On the other hand, this is getting to be an awfully uptight country. How sensitive and easily offended we all are. And humorless. You hurt my feelings! You must be silenced!

Get a life.

Ana Marie Cox: I have to agree with the sad, lonely, bitter part. And with finding both remarks objectionable.

But if Tucker is going to call me humorless then I'm taking my ball and going home.

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re: Why hasn't the administration come out with a statement of support?: Ah, yes, let's forcefully denounce the current Iranian regime and give our full-throated support to the protesters. And then sit back and watch as the Iranian government declares Mousavi and his supporters to be nothing but puppets of foreign influence and any opposition to be illegitimate. Maybe that's when the tanks start rolling out? Sometimes, when a country seems to be on the precipice of revolution, the best thing other governments can do if they want the revolution to succeed and gain legitimacy is stay out of it.

And don't forget, we are not entirely sure how much support the protesters actually have internally, but we do know there are lots of Iranians who are still alive to remember what happened in 1953.

Ana Marie Cox: As I said, earlier, this is the kind of feedback I've been hearing from foreign policy experts -- of all the situations in which the US SHOULD take an official position on behalf of reformers, this isn't one of them... yes, primarily because of our own history with the country.

The reformers aren't ASKING for Obama's explicit support, so I think it's fine for him be more subtle -- there may be a time when it will make sense to be more forceful; I hope we're smart enough to recognize it when it comes.

Tucker Carlson: I heard the same, lame comparison to 1953 on NPR (of course). I don't get it. So Mousavi is the Shah? Wait. I thought he was exactly the opposite. In this case, Mousavi is the one whose rightful position is being stolen by anti-democratic forces.

Your real point seems to be that any candidate endorsed by the United States is by definition illegitimate. I disagree.

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Evanston, Ill.: Could it be that in trying to steal the election the mullahs have unleashed a wave of social change that will be much further reaching than if they had not interfered in the result?

Tucker Carlson: No way to know for certain from here, but that'd be my guess. I suspect we're watching the beginning of the unraveling of the 1979 revolution.

Ana Marie Cox: Agreed that it looks like they "over-stole," especially considering the sad fact of the election being effectively "pre-stolen"! The mullahs had already approved the presidential slate that ran, presumably because they would have been okay with any of them taking over that largely ceremonial position.

Sometimes power corrupts the intellect as well as the soul.

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Virginia: What do you think Deeds chances are in Virginia? Will Virginia continue it's more to middle with centrist Democrats or do you think the very conservative Republican will prevail?

Tucker Carlson: I'm not sure that's exactly the choice Virginia voters will be facing in the fall. But as a general matter, once you pull off an upset like that in the primary (eg., Obama) you've got a pretty solid advantage in the general.

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The Letterman Palin thing: Jeez - I have to agree with Tucker that we could be humorless and I am so liberal..... But NOW wanting an apology from Letterman for the Palin/female thing. I am curious how Ana Marie feels about NOW making noise.

Tucker Carlson: NOW still exists?

Ana Marie Cox: Exactly. If this kind of noise is part of their bid to become relevant again, well, good luck with that.

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Anonymous: Letterman's joke while hardly funny seem to damage Alex Rodriquez most and yet not one word from his fans -- why is that ?

Tucker Carlson: Yankee fans are a hardened group.

Ana Marie Cox: Also they may have not realized it was a joke.

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"Your real point seems to be that any candidate endorsed by the United States is by definition illegitimate.": Tucker, that's a deliberate misreading of the post that's beneath you. The point was that the charge would be made that if the US is supporting Mousavi he must be a puppet of the US -- not that it's true, but it would only serve the interests of the anti-reform forces.

Tucker Carlson: Fair enough. But if Mousavi really does have popular support, it's hard to see why we'd be hated more for supporting him.

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Reston, VA: You can take my bourbon when you can pry it from my cold, comatose hands...

Ana Marie Cox: I imagine it will be well-aged by then.

Tucker Carlson: If only more people had that attitude, this would be a free country.

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Kim Jong Il: The ailing Great Leader is purportedly grooming his #3 son to be his successor. Do we have any inkling whether this twenty-something guy is any less deranged than his dad? A tiny, highly bellicose nation with the world's fourth largest standing army and an itchy nuclear trigger finger is cause for grave concern.

Tucker Carlson: There is only a single photograph of him available in the west, taken when he was a child. So, no, we don't know much. I think we can be certain he's pretty weird though.

Ana Marie Cox: Weirder than KJI? I think VH1 has a new reality show star on its hands.

Or, rather, that's the only situation in which such crazypantsness would be amusing and not, I dunno, HORRIFYING?

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Re: any candidate endorsed by the United States is by definition illegitimate: No, Tucker, it's that any candidate endorsed by the US will have that fact used against them within Iran. We have to be able to see how thinks look from other points of view.

Ana Marie Cox: Yeah, I think that's the point my sources were making.

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Somerville, Ala.: With the GOP at its weakest point, why isn't Obama pushing his progressive (pre-election) agenda? (This may be too weighty)

Ana Marie Cox: I'm sure that Tucker will say that Obama's financial policies seem to fit right into the progressive agenda. But why is he not doing more on social issues? I have no idea. In some ways, I think moving forward on DADT and marriage equality might be LESS controversial than, say, taking over GM. I know plenty of conservatives who think DADT should be, at the very least, re-evaluated. They do not feel the same way about health care.

Tucker Carlson: Ana's right: I think Obama's economic program is about as "progressive" as any president could hope to get away with. How's he getting away with it? The Republicans barely exist. That helps. But mostly, the public has no clue what he's actually doing.

As for the social issues, one of Obama's first acts as president was to make sure US tax dollars can fund abortions abroad. Pretty "progressive." Yes, he's proved a coward on gay marriage, but I suspect (would bet in fact) that'll change by his second term. Have no fear: He will change the country dramatically by the time he's done.

Thanks for another good time today. See you next Monday.

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Rockville, Md.: DOMA and DOJ: Is the issue more about the language in the brief (which is awful) than the actual brief itself? I've read that the DOJ says they had no choice but to defend the law but have read other opinions by lawyers who say that's not necessarily true. Help!

Ana Marie Cox: It would be difficult to do something besides defend the law but not impossible. At the very least, the admin could have chosen a slightly less, uhm PROACTIVE argument than the one the DoJ wound up filing.

As Chris Geidner put it: "The government lawyer defending a statute with which she disagrees needn't add gratuitous demeaning statements into the legal brief she files." America Blog's John Avarosis is summarizes the low lights of said brief bluntly: "Obama defends DOMA in federal court. Says banning gay marriage is good for the federal budget. Invokes incest and marrying children." (http://www.americablog.com/2009/06/obama-justice-department-defends-doma.html)

So, yeah, it's about the language in the brief -- and that matters.

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Alexandria, Va.: I'm hearing a call from Senator McCain and some other Republicans for President Obama to come out clearly in on the side of the reform movement in the Iran conflict? Wouldn't that be a real gift to Ahmadinejad?

"The reformists are American stooges! American agitators are attacking the peaceful Iranian elections!" If I were an Iranian reformer I wouldn't want to hear anything from the US.

Ana Marie Cox: I was talking to smart foreign policy folks about this just yesterday -- and they said pretty much exactly the same thing. Iran, unlike Iraq, is a country with a strong historical national identity and if the reformists are going to succeed, they need to be able to claim reform as a home-grown movement.

That said, I think there's something to individuals declaring their support for the protesters and being skeptical about the election results... but there's no need, as my source put it, "internationalize" the debate.

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"I've always thought the Palin story was fundamentally about abortion.": Maybe for some, but I don't think that's universal. I'm liberal, I uncomfortably support abortion, but my dislike and lack of respect for Gov Palin come from her (apparently) superficial understanding of government, econcomics, foreign policy, etc and her disgusting attempts to link Obama to terrorism. Abortion is way down the list.

Ana Marie Cox: I think the part of the Palin story that her admirers find appealing is less about abortion than about being a tough woman who made tough choices (among them the decision to have Trig) -- and I agree, she is a tough lady; tough and beautiful and poised. She is also incurious, self-satisfied, vindictive and a sort of immature -- factors that make me think she'd be a bad leader, no matter how much I respect some of the tough personal choices she's made.

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Ana Marie Cox: And so the hour winds to a close. Thanks so much for joining us -- always a highlight of my week, and I assume it doesn't suck for Tucker, either. The questions are good and the company is excellent.

See you all next week.

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