Balance of Power with Tucker Carlson and Ana Marie Cox

Tucker Carlson. Ana Marie Cox. He's conservative. She's liberal. They both write for The Daily Beast, he's a contributor to Fox News and she's a national correspondent for Air America Media. They were online Tuesday, Oct. 29 at noon ET to offer their analysis of the Obama presidency and other goings-on in the world of politics.

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Ana Marie Cox: GREETINGS, people of the web. It's another gray autumn day, made bearable largely by the application of breakfast tacos and earl grey tea. I hope you're all well; now, TO THE POLITICS!

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Riva, MD: Next to Redskins owner Dan Snyder, who is the most hated man in Washington?

Tucker Carlson: Anyone who looks like Dan Snyder and is mistaken for him at the supermarket.

Ana Marie Cox: Basically the only thing that guy could do to make him less popular is to kidnap Butterstick.

Unless he made Butterstick play on the team.

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Washington, DC: Tucker, the other night on Countdown, Keith Olberman named you one of his worst persons in the world. Two questions: weren't you guys friends or at least were you when you worked at MSNBC, and, also, is it a badge of honor?

Tucker Carlson: The first rule of living a happy life in Washington is never to Google yourself, so this is the first time I've heard that. I wasn't watching the show, obviously.

My reaction: indifference. I've always gotten along with Keith personally. I didn't work directly with him, so he never had cause to scream at me or berate me or hide in fetal position under his desk while ducking my calls. I doubt whatever attack he leveled against me was personal. But when you're literally the only man in the world brave enough to tell the hard truths -- and Keith seems to believe he is -- sometimes people are going to get hurt.

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Richmond, Va.: I swear I'm not trying to play dumb (just am), but why exactly is the option of letting insurance compainies compete across state lines never part of the debate? The only argument (bad) that I've heard is that different states have different requirements and regulations in relation to protecting patients. Wouldn't it be easier to change that law as opposed to the whole health care system? It just seems that it has something for everyone...the competition will drive down prices, and the govt wouldn't have to get so involved.

Tucker Carlson: It is part of the debate, but it's not clear to me either why both sides can't agree that it's a good idea. Insurance companies in Massachusetts have to provide coverage for all sorts of pills and procedures (Viagra, hair transplants) that I may not need or want, or may be happy to pay for myself. Plans in South Dakota have no such requirements, and are therefore cheaper. Why can't I buy a South Dakota plan?

The answer is, because insurance companies in Massachusetts and other states overburdened with mandates want a captive audience, and their lobbyists have succeeded in making that possible.

Ana Marie Cox: I was going to say: I do think this is part of the debate -- I also think it's one of things that Dems are considering putting in as bait to moderates. That doesn't mean that the legislation they come up on the issue is a good idea, just that it's a place where the needs of state-level lobbyists are being played against the needs of national-level lobbyists. Whee!

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People of the web: Sorta like Children of the Corn, a suitable Halloween metaphor.

Ana Marie Cox: Which reminds me: Did anyone see our special "Mad Men" themed episode of ABC's "Top Line"? I went as Betty...

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Fort Worth, Tex.: Ok, I've got one for Ana on this health-care reform. It seems the real driver for reform isn't as much to get cost under control (John Dickerson had a great piece on the pipe dream of deficit neutrality) as it is to get everyone covered -- an admirable, noble, and moral goal. But...isn't it just enforcing charity? And does that get a little too close to legislating morality for you? I'm guessing no, but it'd be good to hear your thoughts.

Ana Marie Cox: This is a great question -- and I agree that John's article is an important addition to the debate. As for whether or not providing health care for every American is "legislating morality," well, I guess it may be, in the same way that allowing, say, women to sue contractors who allow them to get raped is. There's a moral component to all kinds of laws, that doesn't mean they necessarily go over the line. Also, I tend to only get uncomfortable with "legislating morality" when it seriously infringes on individual liberty -- which I understand is one of the philosophical objections to national health care, and an important question to confront. However, to me, the question of an individual's "right" to, say, go without health insurance, conflicts with the greater goal of keeping more people alive and healthy.

I'm amused by the new talking point -- being promoted by Rush right now -- that it's unconstitutional to "make" people buy health insurance, which seems to hinge on the idea that whether or not you have health insurance is something that has an impact on you and you alone. It's be like saying the government doesn't have a right to "make" you pay for roads or schools.

On the topic of legislating morality, tho -- and because I get jealous when you all get mad at Tucker and not me -- I'd like to register my objection of the hate crime legislation Obama signed last night. The brutal truth is that the life that is taken from a gay person because he or she is gay is just as valuable, no more and no less, as the life taken from anyone else. I wish more homophobes understood that.

Tucker Carlson: Once I decide that your health is my business, I have an interest in all sorts of traditionally personal decisions you make: What you eat, how many hours of sleep you get, your exercise regimen, who you have sex with. All those choices dramatically affect health, and health care expenditures. There's almost nothing I can't tell you to do.

As for the hate crimes legislation, amen. We're all equal under the law, or ought to be. Is Ana the only liberal left who's honest or bold enough to say that? I haven't seen another.

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Takoma Park: Tucker, you are the man.

I don't agree with a lot of your politics, but for anyone to harbor any resentment against you personally for your views....that is just crazy.

I think of you whenever I am fly fishing, "WWTD-What Would Tucker Do?"

Ana Marie Cox: I ask myself what Tucker would do in almost every situation that comes up. Unfortunately, I don't think he cooks very much and so I've burned a lot of dishes.

Tucker Carlson: To be thought of while fly fishing is maybe the highest compliment I can imagine. Thank you.

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For Tucker: There were 700,000 medical bankruptricies last year. 70 percent had health insurance, but could not afford the co-pays and deductibles. If you allow health insurance companies to all relocate to Delaware like credit card companies, you will get more useless policies which employers will force people to take because they are cheaper.

Tucker Carlson: Possibly. But if you decouple insurance from employment, you'll allow consumers to make their own adult decisions about what sort of coverage they want. And that ought to be the goal it seems to me.

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Insurance companies in Massachusetts have to provide coverage for all sorts of pills and procedures (Viagra, hair transplants): This is similar to the statement that Stephen Hawkins would be dead if he lived in England.

Come on, Tucker, you can do better than this.

Tucker Carlson: Haven't heard that line about Hawking. I don't know anything about his illness or how it's treated in England. But I do know there are significant differences between insurance plans offered in different states. Why should I be prevented from buying a plan that better suits my specific needs? Maybe you can think of a good answer, but I can't.

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D.C. Suburbs: Tucker: you mentioned decoupling health insurance from employment, and I just want to say AMEN to that. For me, that is the single biggest reason that I want to see a public option as part of reform. If not a public option, then please let the come up with SOME way to make individual health insurance more affordable and reasonable. I have a great plan where I work now, but I consider it "golden handcuffs" because, otherwise, I hate my job and I want out of here. But feel I can't leave because of the generous insurance. If insurance was decoupled from employment, then I'd have REAL freedom.

Tucker Carlson: The only reason your insurance is tied to your job is because the federal tax code encourages it. In other words, government regulation brought us the system you currently despise. Will more regulation fix that system? I wouldn't bet on it. Probably a better idea to give individuals the same benefits corporations get when they purchase insurance.

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Gaithersburg, Md.: If insurers can sell policies inter-state, won't the states race to the bottom, like credit cards from Delaware?

Tucker Carlson: Boy this Delaware credit card line is the talking point of the day. Yours is maybe the 15th variation on it. Where's it coming from?

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Net neutrality: You are both prolific Internet commentators and what you think about net neutrality and whether the Internet Freedom Act will result in bundling of paid sites like in cable TV or other digital/phone enterprises? And lead to formation of another "free" interweb someday?

Ana Marie Cox: I think the Internet Freedom Act is the most serious blow to my respect for McCain since Palin -- it may actually be more of one, because it has a chance of actually influencing my life.

It will TOTALLY lead to bundled services, a la cable, AND LOOK HOW WELL THAT WORKS. Weirdly, I remember McCain talking about how he was AGAINST bundled cable packages -- in part because it was, to his mind, not very free-market. Quoting from memory (could be misremembering!) "You should be able to pick what you want to watch and not pay for what you don't watch," which makes all kind of sense but apparently not applicable to technology he doesn't understand.

Great illustration of the issue

here

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Ana Marie Cox: Oh and while the quote might be off, I seem to have remembered McCain's position correctly: FCC "A La Carte" Report Says Consumers' Cable Bills Could Be Cut by 13%; McCain Pledges Legislation in Support

Tucker Carlson: I think anyone who supports the first amendment would be strenuously opposed to any law, including net neutrality, that might result in regulation of online content.

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Minneapolis, Minn.: Don't we empower state legislatures to make laws as they see fit for their states? Perhaps I should argue that I'd like to be covered by Montana's speed-limit laws next time I get pulled over for speeding!

Tucker Carlson: I've made that argument. Not a winner.

I do think health insurance is a different matter.

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Competing across state lines: OK, if you can convince me that it wouldn't result in all the insurance companies relocating to one or two states that would be the most hands-off, resuting in really crappy policies and terms that strongly favor the insurers -- like how the credit card companies have taken advantage of lenient-to-nonexistent regulations in South Dakota and Delaware to screw everyone nationwide -- then maybe we can agree on this.

Tucker Carlson: So competition among companies will make service worse? I thought even Democrats didn't believe that anymore.

As for the credit card industry, it has always struck me as sleazy to send pre-approved cards to kids. And I have no doubt there are other unsavory parts of the business. But the bottom line is it's voluntary: Nobody's forcing you to borrow money from Visa. It's your responsibility to pay it back. So how is it the taxpayer's job to step in and clean up your mess when you don't?

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Dallas, Tex.: Tucker, I -often- think of you when fly fishing.

A little bug with feathered hair, stuck on the end of a hook ...

:) Happy Halloween!

Tucker Carlson: Pretty good, I'll admit.

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Washington, DC: Tucker and Ana,

I ALWAYS mix up those great political thinkers Sun Tzu and Mao Tse Tung (it's really embarrassing sometimes). Are there thinkers that you routinely namedrop (either correctly or incorrectly)?

Ana Marie Cox: Oh gosh, is that the new line from the WH? Sigh. I wish they'd just have gone with the "it was a joke that fell flat" that worked so well for Kerry.

Does Gob Bluth count as a "thinker"? (Says the man in the $6,000 pants!)

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Arlington, Va.: Ana, you're missing the point of the Hate Crimes amendment. Previously, if a black man was attacked for his race in an area where local authorities turned a blind eye, federal law could step in. But if a person was attacked for being gay or transgender, that wasn't an option. And believe me there are many places in this country where local authorities routinely ignore anti-gay hate crimes.

And for the record, the far right religious fringe most against this update never happen to mention that religion was already a protected class in existing law.

Ana Marie Cox: Can the federal government step in if local authorities turn a blind eye for someone who is murdered for wearing white after labor day? I guess my hope is that the federal government have options to step in whenever local authorities miscarry justice -- and I have tended to assume that our court system allows for exactly that. I realize the implementation is imperfect, but I worry that creating a special class of victims goes against the ultimate goal of saying all lives, and all people, are equal.

It's horrible that local authorities ignore crimes against gays. But I want those authorities to be held accountable for ignoring crimes against PEOPLE, who may happen to be gay.

I realize it's a complicated issue (and I do see the logic of protected classes in general and think sexual orientation belongs there) and it's possible that Hate Crime laws are the most elegant -- or most immediate -- solution. But I stand my ground as far as a philosophical objection goes.

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Totally Irrelevant, but funny : On NPR this morning, they told a story of Barney Frank in the Mass State house in the 70s introducing a bill to de-criminalize marijuana, and a conservative Democrat stands up and complains that Frank had introduced bills to legalize prostitution, drug use, homosexual sex, and now marijuana, and "when is he going to stop?" to which Frank replied "I'm going to keep this up until we find something you like to do."

Ana Marie Cox: An excellent note to end on.

Thanks to the people of the web! Thank you, Tucker, and thank you, internet, for still being basically free.

See you all next week.

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Mr. Carlson...: The reason Mr. Olbermann had you on his "worst persons" segment was because you criticized Mr. Olbermann's and Rachel Maddow's lunch with President Obama, when you, youself, had lunch with President Bush. Sorry, while I don't think you rank as worst person in the world, I do think it is a bit hypocritical.

Ana Marie Cox: I also wonder if there's any journalist in Washington -- R or D -- that would reject such an invitation. I guess it's possible that Keith would have said no to Bush, mainly to brag about saying no, but it's also possible he'd have said yes, so that he could SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER. Being the speaker of truth that he is and whatnot. I'm quite sure he would be offended at the notion that a simple invitation could influence him.

(PS: It would totally influence me, Mr. Obama, IF YOU ARE LISTENING! SCHEDULE IS WIDE OPEN!)

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Hartford, Conn.: "The first rule of living a happy life in Washington is never to Google yourself"

Absolutely. That's intern work.

(Remember when there were such things as "clipping services"? Back when information was printed on paper that had to be scissored into small chunks when you wanted to save a story?)

Ana Marie Cox: Also that is what Politico's "Click" is for.

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Silver Spring, Md.: "you will get more useless policies which employers will force people to take because they are cheaper."

But couldn't states mandate that any insurance company wanting to sell insurance within their state must comply with that state's laws, such as those who reside in the state currently do?

Ana Marie Cox: Yeah, I think there are regulatory solutions to allowing cross-state competition -- but the "race to the bottom" a la Delaware is the real concern. And there's probably a regulatory solution to that, too, but then you have to ask if banning cross-state sales isn't just simpler.

I don't actually know the answer here, can just speak to the politics, which makes it seem like interstate sales is on the table.

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Coral Springs, Fla.: Can either of you think of any legitimate reason for the Democrats to pretend that Joe Lieberman is of any use to them in the Senate?

Ana Marie Cox: Comic relief?

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Mt. Holly, N.C.: Is our system starting to fall the way the Koran parliament, where we are about to see fist fights on the floor of the House and the Senate?

Ana Marie Cox: OH GOD I HOPE SO! Jim Webb has little other hope of re-election.

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Arlington, Va.: I would be considered a liberal (which is not an insult, by the way) and I'm totally against Hate Crime laws and Hate Speech laws on campuses. I do not want to get into creating legal penalties for thoughts. Yikes! If you beat someone, that is a crime. If you did it because you didn't like something about them, how does that change things?

Tucker Carlson: Amen. Tell me if you're interested in starting a Left-Right Coalition Against ThoughtCrimes. I'd join.

Thanks for everything today. See you next week.

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