Jen Chaney and Liz Kelly
Washington Post "Lost" bloggers
Wednesday, April 14, 2010; 2:00 PM
Join "Lost" bloggers Liz Kelly and Jen Chaney each Wednesday at 2 p.m. ET to talk about "Lost's" sixth and final season.
A transcript follows.
Liz and Jen, both obsessive "Lost" fans, have been writing their weekly dueling analysis of the show since 2006. When not debating the merits of Sawyer's hotness, Liz Kelly writes the Celebritology blog and Jen Chaney acts as movies editrix and DVD columnist for washingtonpost.com. For episode analysis, discussion transcripts and more, visit washingtonpost.com's Lost Central.
Jen Chaney: Great to see you all here. As always, lots to discuss. But I want to throw out one more probably meaningless thought before we get underway.
It seemed to me that pretty much ever finale thus far was referenced in some way during last night's show, adding more creedence to the notion Liz and I raised in the analysis, that it seems like everything from the past five seasons is all coming to a head. (I was actaully counting finale moments last night before I went to sleep. Because that's what dorks do instead of counting sheep.)
Did you feel that way, too, or am I just looney tunes? Liz is joining us shortly. So let's get things rolling.
Michael: In your Pulitzer prize-winning point/counterpoint from this morning, you mentioned the possibility that Michael us the MIB trying to push Hurley one way or another and I thought so too when he showed up, all angry. But, Jack didn't see him. Do we have any indication that the MIB can take the form of another and have that viewing be limited? (Begs the question as to how he would do that). The whispers is a different sound than the crackling the smoke makes so I'm happy de-linking them. I think the creepy boy and Michael come from the same place and are controlled by the same thing...whatever that is at this point.
Jen Chaney: Thanks for saying Pulitzer Prize-winning and making me spit out my Coke Zero.
Jack didn't see him, this is true. That is a bit curious. And someone else has pointed out that MIB is supposed to be trapped in Locke at this stage in the game, which I forgot due to my infautation with the idea of him becoming Michael for a minute.
That may put the nail in the coffin of MIB as Michael theory, especially if that genuinely is Michael's limbo-spirit, as he contended.
Washington, DC: Ilana blew herself up on purpose. She was throwing those water bottles into that bag quite deliberately. Question is: Why?
Jen Chaney: Really? You think? Because if I were going to blow myself up on purpose, I'd at least finish my sentence first.
But that's me. And I'm a communicator.
Desmond v. Locke: Does Desmond know Locke isn't really Locke?
Jen Chaney: I don't think so, no. And since MIB and Sedated Sayid have kept him away from the rest of the camp, no one has been able to explain.
Speaking of Des and Locke, did anyone else see the wheelchair hit-and-run coming? I did, but no one was watching with me so there is no way for anyone to back me up on that ... once Des got chucked down the wall, I figured he'd hit Locke, just for symmetry's sake.
Baltimore: I guess Hurley's "the boss." He was meeting Rosalita at "Spanish Johnny's," presumably via the E street shuffle.
Jen Chaney: And driving a pink Cadillac.
DC: One thing I can't reconcile: in the analysis, you said that Widmore probably wants to harness the power of the island. But didn't he want to destroy the island via the freighter folks? Weren't they there to destroy it??
washingtonpost.com: They were there to get Ben off it/kill everybody.
Jen Chaney: Right, as producer Paul notes, Widmore wanted to boot Ben since Ben kicked him off the island and made him stay away.
So he did not want to destroy the island. He wants to preserve it and have access to it, although it's still unclear exactly why.
Liz is here now. So she probably can explain all of this in great detail.
Liz Kelly: Gee thanks Jen. I would love nothing more than to launch into an extended version of my thesis on Charles Widmore's plans for the island, but alas, it would eat up the rest of the hour.
Suffice to say I agree with Paul and Jen: Widmore's not there to destroy the island. Just MIB.
The Human Fund: Did either of you catch Hurley mentioning him attending a banquet for the "Human Fund"? How very Seinfeldian.
Jen Chaney: I did notice that! And completely forgot to mention it. Love it when they do shout-outs to other shows on "Lost."
The first one I remember was when they referenced a paper company in Slough, a nod to the original, British "Office."
Salem, OR: What do you think about the chances of Locke, rather than dying, being able to walk again after the car crash in the sideways world? It reminded me of Sun running into the tree and then starting to merge with her sideways personality. Maybe it works in both directions.
Jen Chaney: Oh, Salem, that is interesting.
Let's map this out. So Locke's been hit by a car, like someone invariably always is on this show. He's got to go to the hospital. Who wants to put solid odds on who will be treating him at that hospital?
I'm going to say Jack. And then I'm further going to say Jack will finally give him that consult and, as you astutely suggest, figure out some way to "fix him."
Liz Kelly: So Desmond is again facilitating a situation in which Locke (and possibly Jack) will be forced into a realization of their island pasts? Me likey.
Another theory from blog commenter blondie3:
I think Desmond tries to kill Sideways Locke (after all, we don't know he's dead) so that when the two realities merge, MIBLocke doesn't have a corresponding body to merge with - ergo, he remains stuck on the Island. Just as Sideways Libby, Faraday, Charlotte, etc., will all disappear because they're already dead in the Island reality.
Jen Chaney: Can both of these concepts be correct? Because I really like both, although I don't want Faraday, Libby and Charlotte to cease to exist.
Mike Mclean: With all the talk of bloodbath and people dropping like flies, should we expect quick, unceremonius deaths for major characters? Am I going to see a tree fall on Sawyer and the other characters just kind of go "well that's the island for ya!" like Illana?
Jen Chaney: That's a good point. Not a lot of mourning there. Frankly, everyone seemed a lot more upset when Arzt went boom.
If a tree does fall on Sawyer, he will not die. He will simply say, "Son of a bitch," then wriggle out from underneath and make some sort of joke related to the planet Endor. He will do all of this without wearing a shirt.
Man, that sounds like a *really* good episode.
San Francisco: Ladies - the bag Hurley looked into after Ilana went kablooie was the one she kept the Jacob ashes in - so thats what Hurley saw, although why he freaked...who knows
Liz Kelly: Seriously, he seemed galvanized by his peek at whatever was in there. And you're right, it should have been Jacob's ashes. Maybe, a teensy three-inch-tall Jacob was perched inside the bag and shouted (with his three-inch-tall appropriate voice) that Hurley needed to destroy the dynamite?
Arlington, VA: Do you think they picked the Willy Wonka song at the end to foreshadow what is coming up? The whole point of Willy Wonka was to find someone to take over his chocolate factory. Can we assume a connection there?
Liz Kelly: Thank you for bringing this up. That parallel didn't occur to me until the analysis was already live on the site, but thanks to you and other astute readers it is out there. Viewed in that light, it's yet another reason to think Jack will be revealed as THE candidate over the next few weeks. As long as he and Grandpa Joe away from the fizzy lifting drink.
Jen Chaney: I also wonder about the name of the song: "Wondrous Boat."
Is it possible that they'll finally sail away from the island successfully, as Sawyer, Michael, etc. almost triumphantly did in season one?
Orlando, FL: So, who else needs a kiss to remember the island, and/or discover their true love?
Jen Chaney: Me. From Boone.**
**My apologies to my husband for making this comment. I am sure he knows I am kidding. You know, mostly.
Liz Kelly: I didn't realize it was possible for me to actual do a full 360 degree eye roll. But it is.
Santa Clara, CA: If it wasn't already clearly obvious, here are two more reasons to suspect Jack is THE Candidate:
1. When talking to Hurley, he mentioned that maybe he needed to cede control. Another way to interpret this statement is that he should let others make their own choices, which is basically what Jacob's role is, an observer who wants people to figure out right and wrong for themselves.
2. After Desmond hits Locke with his car, we see the same pained look on Locke's face that we saw after he hit the ground from his fall in Season 5's finale. Jacob subsequently touched him and revived him. My friends and I are betting that Locke will be taken to the hospital and be saved this time by -- you guessed it -- Jack.
Liz Kelly: We already covered your second point, but I think this is worth posting because your first is so interesting.
Jen Chaney: That's very true, Jacob has become more of a Jacob figure. And I wonder if it's that realization -- that it's not about him controlling others or being the Hero -- that will let him truly heal John in the sideways world.
Annapolis: "Maybe, a teensy three-inch-tall Jacob was perched inside the bag and shouted" I kinda think you're right! I'm thinking that the kid they saw in the jungle is Jacob...he's grown since last time they saw a kid in the jungle...he's like a phoenix! So, something Hurley saw (or maybe didn't see) in that bag led him to realize that Jacob's on his way back to life. Wow, that sounds so ridiculous now that it's been written down.
Jen Chaney: You're right. It kinda does.
Liz Kelly: Something that made him realize Jacob is that kid and is growing rapidly? Like a discarded retainer?
We're kidding, of course. Hurley clearly saw something surprising. It's just a question of what.
It's all about Lapidus: I sent this in late a couple weeks ago, but more and more there are rock references (last night Jack said something about getting off this rock when he very easily could have said island. Lapidus means of stone; Simon and Garfunkel's "I Am A Rock" with its "I am a rock, I am an island" lyrics immediately comes to mind. He's still hanging around, he's brought people to the island twice, and he's due for more of an explanation. Jeff Fahey's comeback will soon be complete.
Jen Chaney: Is he the Candidate, then? I was wondering about him last night, actually. They've done very little with Lapidus's character this season, so he is due for a bit of attention.
Liz Kelly: Agreed.
Another thing: They need to give him a wardrobe change. If Ilana could somehow lose her vest in the last couple of episodes surely someone can give the man a t-shirt to swap out for that Captain Steubing-looking pilot's uniform.
Jen Chaney: Looks good on him, though, Liz.
Liz Kelly: No, the white is really starting to show some wear and tear. I'm thinking some kind of olive-toned tee.
Libby on the Label: I can't get this early 80's jingle out of my head since last night. Libby Libby Libby on the Label Label Label....anyone else remember this?
Jen Chaney: Yes! And now it's in my head, too.
Thanks for the earworm, man.
Brooklyn, NY: While the past couple episodes are vastly better than the beginning of the season, they feel a bit rushed all of a sudden. At the same time, the story line of the temple is less and less important and doesn't seem critical to wrapping up the series at all. So why did we waste so much time at the temple at the beginning of the series at all? I can't understand it.
Jen Chaney: You and me both, Brooklyn. If we ever talk to LindeCuse again, I really want to ask them about Dogen. I don't see, at least right now, why we spent so much time with that dude at the beginning of the season. A bit baffling.
Liz Kelly: Again, I would have been perfectly happy if the season had begun with last week's Desmond episode.
Burke, VA: Is it just me or did the Desmond vehicle demolition of sideways Locke look really bad? The way he was convulsing my first thought was "traumatic brain injury and death". I don't think he's walking away from that one. Next week should be legendary!
Jen Chaney: I initially thought he was a goner, too. But now that we've advanced this Jack Will Heal Him Theory, I am thinking he might come close to death's door, then retreat thanks to the healing hands of one Dr. Shephard.
PM Ontario Canada: Did you pickup on Hurley's response after he blew up the Black Rock? When confronted he stated "I was trying to save or protect IT" What it, MIB or the plane?
Jen Chaney: Or Door No. 3: the island.
Everyone DOES Love Hugo: Where is Jin? Was I the only one who hadn't really noticed he wasn't around and when Sun walked into MiB Camp, was all "oh my god, we're finally getting the reunion of the series" only to realize "Jin isn't there. Where did he go?" BTW - my sweetie and I were both laughing so hard we almost fell off the couch when Desmond gunned his car into Locke.
Liz Kelly: He's with Widmore over on Hydra Island.
Jen Chaney: Laughing at Locke getting runned down? That's cold-blooded, brotha.
And I'm with you on Jin. Liz had to remind me he was on Hydra Island because I, too, was caught up in the two of them reuniting.
Milwaukee, WI: Ok, why in Season 4 was Widmore concerned with capturing Ben and not MIB? Now he wants MIB and from what we can tell he couldn't care less about Ben. What the heck is going on with that?
Liz Kelly: At that point perhaps things were at a point where containing Ben -- who was still somewhat in control -- would have achieved Widmore's goals? Because at that point John Locke was still alive and had yet to be killed by Ben, which then made it possible for MIB to take on Locke's form and mount an escape attempt from the island.
Jen Chaney: Or maybe Widmore knew that MIB was controlling Ben, or trying to? So getting to Ben was akin to getting to MIB, in Widmore's mind?
Hugo vs. Richard: Did anyone notice that the people who went with Hugo were all the original plane people plus Frank who was supposed to be on the original plane while Miles and Ben who got to the Island other ways went with Richard? A very neat separation.
Jen Chaney: Nice observation.
Jacob's Ashes: I can't believe no one has mentioned that Hurley's decision to go see FLocke came after he found Jacob's ashes. What can Jacob's ashes do if spread in a circle around him? Why trap him, of course! Not sure that's where this is going, but seemed worth mentioning.
Jen Chaney: Good point. We mentioned the ashes, as well as a nutty theory about mini-Jacob. But this is the obvious answer: Hurley knows about relevance of spreading the ash. So he thinks they can confront MIB and stay safe.
Liz Kelly: I dunno. I'm not sold on it. I think he saw something else in there.
Don't stand next to wells with people you don't know: I think Desmond does know Locke is not Locke. When Locke turned to talk to Sayid, Desmond gave him a very unfriendly look. He was not surprised at Locke's question about not being afraid. Also, he tells Ben he has a son named Charlie in the Sideways world. Why would he know that much and not who Locke isn't?
Liz Kelly: I'm with you. I think Des totally realizes that Locke is MIB. Or at least that he is no longer the Locke he knew.
Jen Chaney: Hmmm. I'm still not sure if he does. But I concede it's possible.
And thanks for mentioning his reference to Charlie. That struck me, too. I thought maybe he just invented the first name that came to him and, like Claire, he was able to pull his actual son's name from some corner of his subconscious. But maybe he does know more than that.
Ilana we hardly knew ye: Although I saw it coming a mile away, I was pretty dismayed by Ilana's sudden death. Namely because she seemed to have some pretty important backstory relevant to the plot. You know, her years of training, Jacob is her father figure, why out of all people Jacob picked her for the job, etc.
Do either of you have any hope that her back story will still be explored? It felt really important to me... and of course in true Lost fashion, a character is bumped off before their relevance can be explored. I mean, in her time on the Island, she didn't really DO anything. She didn't even protect the candidates very well, which was apparently her job.
Liz Kelly: Well, Zuleikha Robinson did say -- in a NY Mag Vulture blog interview we've linked here before -- that we would get more of Ilana's back story. But at this point, I don't see the point. Or how they'd work it in, unless she surfaces in sideways world.
Despite the fact that Ilana seemed like a strong addition to the cast, and the story, when she arrived last season, she just never ended up adding too much to the show. The woman had no idea what she was doing there. She followed orders.
I guess I'd be more interested in learning more about her in terms of what she represented -- f'rinstance a sect of off-island knights sworn to defend his candidates -- rather than find out more about her personal story. And if she was a member of some kind of brother/sisterhood sworn to Jacob, are there more like her?
Jen Chaney: I just want to understand how she came into contact with Jacob, and how she was "trained."
Hey, Wasn't that....: .....one of the 3 geeks from "Freaks and Geeks" as the cashier at the Mr. Cluck's where Hugo and Desmond have their conversation?
Jen Chaney: Yes! Let's hear it for Samm Levine! Forgot to name check him in the analysis.
He's responsible for one of my favorite "F&G" quotes: "Friday night -- always a good time for some Sabbath."
TheTruckGuy, DC: Did Hurley get a mirror reflection scene in his flash sideways? Who are all the ones who have gotten to see the mirror and who havent? I know Jin didnt see the mirror but Sun saw, did Sayid see the mirror reflection? did Hurley?
Jen Chaney: Sun did, Sawyer did, Jack did. I can't remember whether Sayid did. Liz?
Liz Kelly: Shoot. That's a good question. And thanks to the ever helpful Lostpedia, we have an answer.
These are the main characters that have supposedly seen their reflections in varying surfaces (not always an actual mirror) in sideways world:
They don't include Hurley, but it could be they haven't updated to reflect (ahahaha) last night's episode yet. And I honestly can't remember.
Bedford PA: Re the dark haired boy in the jungle. A commenter on your analysis suggested it was the same blonde boy as earlier in the season with dark hair. Perhaps he is the young version of MIB and the blonde the young Jacob as supposed previously. But instead of two separate entities they are the same boy, the good and the evil side, who at some point in time, separated and grew to become Jacob and MIB.
Liz Kelly: So you're saying he's like the Cher action figure I had in second grade whose scalp swiveled so she could have either blond or black hair?
Jen Chaney: Oh man, I remember that doll.
I'd like this idea except it was clearly a different kid. Not only the hair color was different, but his face was completely different, too. So I don't know about that one.
Jack: Someone posited over on the ew.com thread that Hurley watching the tribute video to himself at the awards ceremony might/should count as him seeing his "reflection".
Liz Kelly: Meh.
Jen Chaney: A stretch, yeah. I'd go with it being flashes before your eyes -- sort of seeing your whole life really quickly, as Des has done before -- as a more apt analogy.
The Plane, The Plane!: It's getting on my nerves that Richard has been going on about the plane for a few days (island time) and Frank has yet to say anything. I really don't think it can move, much less fly, so why doesn't Frank just speak up and say "Well, that ain't going to happen!" Of the whole crowd he's the one who would actually know.
Jen Chaney: Good point. As I made clear in the analysis, Richard's fixation on the plane also strikes me as oddly short-sighted.
Liz Kelly: And one would think Lapidus would also have some handy ideas for disabling the plane that don't rely on porting wildly unstable dynamite to a whole other island while possibly being shot at by Dirty Liz Lemon.
Chicago, IL: Seeing Libby in the mental institution at the end of the "Dave" episode in Season 2, was that a sneak peak into the alternate world we now have going on in Season 6, with Libby again in a mental institution. Or is Libby in a mental institution in both the "main" reality and the alternate reality?
Jen Chaney: Good question. Last night, Libby mentioned that she remembered being at Santa Rosa before. Which makes me think the second thing you said -- that she's in an institution in two versions of reality -- is probably right.
Dazed and Confused: I agree with the comment that things seem to be really rushed. There's so little time left and every week it seems we're given with a new explanation: Richard - The island is hell. Michael - The island is purgatory. Desmond - We're in the Matrix. Jus sayin".
Jen Chaney: I hear you. In general, though, I think the episodes have been stronger in the second half of the season. Although, one other complaint: I noticed last night that there is some unnecessary summarizing, as if we're getting "Previously on Lost" moments during the episode for those who are tuning in for the last leg.
When Hurley was at Libby's grave and reminding us that they were supposed to go on a picnic date before she dies, I felt like that was a reminder for those who might not catch the relevance of their inevitable picnic later in the episode.
Liz Kelly: True. Though I have to think those gentle reminders are inserted for viewers like my mom, who has been watching for five years but gives "Lost" the same level of concentration she devotes to "Desperate Housewives." People like mom may actually have forgotten about that season two moment.
Frederick, MD: Hope this isn't too late. I just remembered that Desmond came to see Mrs. Hawking when she told everyone they had to be on the Ajera flight to Figi, then stormed out. He might have found out about John Locke's death then.
Jen Chaney: How would he have found out, though? Locke was undercover as Jeremy Bentham, which is the name that ran in the obituary.
And Ben was taking Locke's body to the 'ol butcher around that time. So I don't know. Not saying he doesn't realize Locke isn't quite Locke, but I'm not sure he found out he died.
Liz Kelly: I guess I'm assuming that when Desmond had his latest electromagnetic experience (in last week's show) all was made clear. That somehow he is now possessed with certain knowledge of where everyone and everything stands on island.
I'll admit that's a pretty big assumption.
Jen Chaney: No, that's possible. At least within the context of Lost.
I don't think he knew Locke died before then, though. How's that?
Hugo-a-go-go: I was hoping to see the crazy guy who gave Hurley the numbers when he went to see Libby at Santa Rosa (who also appears to Hurley on the island). Anyone?
Jen Chaney: Well, there was a crazy-seeming dude playing Connect Four. But I don't think that was Leonard.
Richmond, VA: Jen and Liz: One of your astute readers checked Wikipedia and noted that one actor played the kid in the jungle in both episodes. I think you need to let go of the Aaron theory, too, as do many of your other readers.
Liz Kelly: Hmm, just did a quick look back at the press releases and one Kenton Duty is listed as appearing in both episodes as "teenage boy."
So maybe you're right. But if so, that raises new questions: Why the changing hair color? Is it meant to hint the duality of Jacob/MIB. Suggest that they are, in reality, one person with two distinct sides?
Jen Chaney: I looked at the screencaps and it's definitely the same kid. So I totally stand corrected.
And now I think he's mini-Matt Damon, sent to the island to set things straight, Jason Bourne-style.
(Seriously, he does look kind of like Matt Damon.)
I think the black vs. white idea has more creedence now. I still want him to be Aaron, though, because I want Aaron to be important!
bethesda, md: so no one has mentioned the fact that richard claimed that jacob told him what the island was and no one seemed to pay this any attention. how does anyone let something like that slide!?!?
Jen Chaney: I guess I thought Richard was referring back to the conversation we saw him have with Jacob during "Ab Aeterno."
Jacob told him it was not hell, and made the whole bottle-with-the-cork comparison and talked about how he brought people there to prove that they can evaluate right vs. wrong on their own. Which is a pretty vague explanation. But maybe it worked for Richard.
Liz Kelly: Okay, thanks for playing along. A really good chat today. Lots to ponder as we count down to the end.
See you back here next week after we all digest "The Last Recruit."
Jen Chaney: Many great observations and insights here today. Thanks for all of them. See you next week.
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