Jen Chaney and Liz Kelly
Washington Post "Lost" bloggers
Wednesday, May 19, 2010; 2:00 PM
Join "Lost" bloggers Liz Kelly and Jen Chaney each Wednesday at 2 p.m. ET to talk about "Lost's" sixth and final season.
Read their dueling analysis of "What They Died For."
Liz and Jen, both obsessive "Lost" fans, have been writing their weekly dueling analysis of the show since 2006. When not debating the merits of Sawyer's hotness, they write the Celebritology blog. Jen Chaney also acts as movies editrix and DVD columnist for washingtonpost.com. For episode analysis, discussion transcripts and more, visit washingtonpost.com's Lost Central.
Liz Kelly: Oh boy oh boy do we have a lot to talk about. Let's just jump right in...
... right after these reminders:
-- Vote in the
for the show's final scene.
-- Show up at the Reef in Adams Morgan tomorrow night for our
Jen Chaney: Liz said it all. And I've to bail at 2:30 so I can talk to LindeCuse. (Eeek!) So let's roll.
Baltimore, MD: A theory from my office's Wedenesday lost lunch dicussion group: In sideways world, Sawyer will go out for coffee, where he will meet Juliet who is. . .on the way to her son's concert! She asks him to come with her, and then Sawyer and Juliet will be there with Des and Kate and Jack and Sayid and Hurley. Also, Sawyer will be shirtless. Just go with me on the last part.
Jen Chaney: I am convinced Juliet is David's mom. Convinced.
And I like your coffee theory, too.
Liz Kelly: Well we're all in agreement here. I'm also thinking Juliet has to be little David's mom.
PlzPostit, INeverGetThrulandia: I am thinking maybe the surgery on Locke in sideways world will have something to do with what happens to Smokey on Island world. Will it cripple him in some way? If at a key moment when Smokey is about to kill Jack or Kate or someone will the healing of sideways Locke incapacitate Smokey, make him vunerable and allow the Island Losties the chance to kill him?
Jen Chaney: Despite your bald play for getting your question answered, I am answering it because I like the way you think.
I think the relationship between Jack and Locke is the core of the show, and I think that getting out of that chair, as John put it, has to have some kind of significance.
Rules? What rules?: I thought Ben couldn't kill Widmore and vice-versa. Wasn't that a thing from the deep, dark bedroom scene? Was that only while Jacob was still alive? Or only on the mainland? If neither of those, how did Ben shoot Widmore in the chest?
Liz Kelly: That's sounding vaguely familiar now that you mention it. Anyone else out there have time to consult the archives? Or, umm, Lostpedia?
McLean, VA: Since the last episode is super-sized from 1 hour to 2.5 hours, does that mean your last Lost chat will be as well?
Jen Chaney: My plan is to chat for the entirety of Monday. Bring provisions people.
I'm kidding ... mostly.
Liz Kelly: She says she's kidding, but I know her. And me. It will be a mammoth of a chat.
Brooklyn, NY: Never seen the show, can you give me the rundown, love? Cheers.
Liz Kelly: Sure. Do you have about 74 hours to spare?
Crofton, MD: The concert that comes up in Sideways World seems to be where all the Losties are going to meet up. It seems like the two worlds are colliding. I wonder if the concert is going to be some sort of integration for the two worlds. It is where Eloise Hawking is right now and she seems to be portrayed as the medium between the two worlds....?
washingtonpost.com: And she made a huge deal about the guest list, and not letting Desmond see it.
Jen Chaney: Man, I am so hoping for the best version ever of "We Are the World."
Dr. Linus: Mark my words...he will ultimately kill Locke.
Jen Chaney: You may be right.
Liz Kelly: That would have a certain poetic justice since MIB/Flocke used Ben as his tool of vengeance. And so the weapon would turn on his master.
Beltsville, MD: I guess the writers wanted to get back to the tradition of Michael Emerson wearing the beaten face make-up.
Liz Kelly: Yeah, the poor guy does make a good punching bag.
It was also nice to see Ben slip back into his old familiar aura of dishonesty; possessed of the capability to kill in cold-blood. I have to admit I was not much of a fan of the new Boy Scout Ben.
Jen Chaney: I like both Bens, but I like him when he's at he's most dryly humorous. And he was that a couple of times in both worlds last night.
Denver CO: I thought Jacob's answer that he brought the candidates to the island because they were flawed and lonely like him was simple and right - perhaps a bit incomplete, but come on, when has a Lostie ever given a complete, unambiguous answer when a confusing and vague one will do?
I think what's interesting is that the candidates are all flawed and alone in a similar way - they all are people who started with good intentions and who have wanted to do right by others, but have made choices out of anger or pain or fear that have instead led them to doing wrong or hurting others, which is arguably exactly what Jacob did. Although I wonder to what extent Jacob played a role in their choices, given his early interactions with some of them (Kate and Sawyer particularly).
And now, they have the chance to choose the ultimate good (at least so far as what Jacob knows) by being the guardian, a chance Jacob is giving them to be better than he was. And isn't that something that many of us do, with our children or others who are younger than us that we influence? Try to get them to choose better than we did, even though they are just as flawed as we are?
Jen Chaney: Absolutely, Denver. I think my issue was that I almost didn't need to hear Jacob explain that. Our Losties did, but in that context, seems like they would have asked other things like, how did you find my name? How did you manage to spy on my for decades?
And they didn't ask that, so I just found that one scene a bit unsatisfying even if the explanation makes sense.
Liz Kelly: I'm with Jen. We got an answer, but it was somewhat half-hearted. Jacob explained that he chose them because they were flawed, like him -- but as I tried to (ineloquently) point out in the analysis, what made them any different from the other billions of flawed, lonely people on the planet?
Speaking of Penny: What happened to her Sideways date at the coffee shop with Desmond?
Liz Kelly: Well Des is so busy playing God, she may be waiting there for quite some time.
Also, to clarify -- do you think they were all headed to the concert or just Des and Kate (with her slinky dress)? I got the sense that Hurley and Sayid were bound for a different destination.
Jen Chaney: Good point, Liz. Although I feel like everyone has to get back in the same place at the same time, but maybe those two have a different agenda.
Kate: I really disliked at the beginning of the episode where Kate was telling Jack about Ji Yeon. Is it really possible that Jack did not know they had a daughter? Seemed to be such dumb narration.
Jen Chaney: Well, Kate's a little distraught so maybe she was just babbling. But yeah, you would think Jack was well aware of that since he had seen Sun since the baby was born.
Coq au Vin Night: If thinking that alt-Ben and alt-Rousseau are freaking ADORABLE is wrong, then I don't ever, ever wanna be right. I never thought a discussion about onions could be so sweet.
Jen Chaney: Coq au Vin night totally crushes Baked Ham Night.
Liz Kelly: But how nice that each of them has a signature dish they can bring to the relationship.
DharmaChamp: Does anyone think that maybe Hurley is the real canidate? It just seems to easy for Jack to be the one
Jen Chaney: Liz implied this in the analysis, I think. And I think that's entirely possible. Just as Hurley had to hit the gas on his VW bus and save the day once before, I think he'll be called upon to be a hero at some point in the finale.
Liz Kelly: Yep, as I pointed out in the analysis, I'm not convinced Hurley is THE candidate, but I still think he's got an important part to play in bringing this thing in for a landing. So to speak.
Jack may have been the one to step up drink Jacob's water/wine, but I have a feeling that defeating MIB will be a team effort.
Remember: Live together, die alone.
Who comes back: I'm sure not every character is getting his or her story wrapped up, but here are my guesses on who we'll see beyond the core group in the last episode.
Likely: Eloise, Daniel, Charlotte, Penny, Libby
Less likely but hoped for: Boone, Charlie, Rose and Bernard, Juliet
Unlikely: Michael, Walt, Aaron, Mr. Eko
Outta nowhere: Frogurt
washingtonpost.com: No Nikki? Paulo? VINCENT?
Jen Chaney: You didn't mention Shannon. And I have a sneaking feeling we will see her.
Liz Kelly: Well, all these returns would certainly help to fill out the stage for the "We Are the World" concert performance.
And out of all of the above, the one I see as a solid bet is Juliet.
Darn those pesky rules: But Ben also said Widmore broke the rules when he had Alex killed, so maybe turnabout is fair play?
washingtonpost.com: "Shape of Things to Come" is probably my favorite episode, and Ben and Charles have this exchange:
"Did you come here to kill me, Benjamin?"
"We both know I can't do that."
I would guess it had more to do with Jacob's death than Alex's.
Liz Kelly: Ahhh, thank you!
So it seems that at one time Ben/Charles Widmore were bound by some rules -- but maybe it was more of a gentleman's agreement than a supernatural inability to physically harm each other?
LOST Finale Snack Food: I don't eat pork, but since Dharma dressing doesn't exist I can't think of anything better than some wild boar or boar's head at least. Seriously, over 5 plus hours of watching Sunday. What is everyone gonna eat with their side of smokey?
washingtonpost.com: Apollo Bars.
Jen Chaney: Sunday night is Coq au Vin night!
Actually, I plan to snack on invisible peanut butter. It's sooo delicious.
Liz Kelly: I would go for the Ben ham special, but that would kind of put the kibosh on my whole vegetarian thing.
Rockville: When Hurley was paying the bribe to Ana Lucia, it sounded like he asked Desmond something about whether she was coming too and Desmond said "she's not ready yet." Did I hear that right? Do you think it had any meaning other than to explain that she's not important to the plot?
Liz Kelly: You did. I heard that, too. And just as quickly forgot it as I was trying to figure out whether or not I was justified in being annoyed that Des had bought Kate a slinky black strapless dress to wear to the concert.
That does connote that he's gathering the Losties to take them on another journey... the implication being that Ana isn't ready to move on from sideways world where, mayhaps, the rest are.
Memorial Day: Remember, Monday is Memorial Day, so TiVO + a day spent re-watching isn't out of the question for people with the day off. Also, on food, mangos and papayas gotta be in the menu somewhere.
Liz Kelly: Sorry dude -- but Memorial Day is the following Monday, May 31. So we'll all be up late and playing hurt at work on Monday.
Christiansburg, VA: What do you all think about some of the unceremonious ending to the more mysterious characters? Widmore and Richard, gone! Seems rushed does it not?
Jen Chaney: Yeah, it does. That also goes double for Lapidus, who I wasn't even sure was dead after that episode two weeks' ago. But apparently he is. And no one has even bothered to say, "Hey, where's Frank?"
Hello? Doesn't anyone care about our pilot?
Liz Kelly: Yeah. That was really frustrating. I still don't understand why he was included in this season's regular cast if all he was going to do was schlep around the island saying nothing. They could have had him die soon after the Ajira flight landed on Hydra Island and it would have affected the story not at all.
I'm really glad Damon and Carlton are too busy to read our analyses and chats because after reading today's fare, they might not be feeling too hospitable towards Jen when she arrives for her interview this afternoon.
Jen Chaney: Indeed. And with that, I gotta roll so I can go talk to those dudes.
Thanks to those of you who suggested questions. A transcript of our Q&A should show up in the blog tomorrow.
Sorry for missing the rest of the chat!
Hugo, LA, CA: What do we make of the fact that Hurley knows who Ana Lucia is in sideways world? Has Desmond broken him through so he knows what the Original Hurley knows?
Jen Chaney: Good question. Hurley does seem to have a mastery of what's happening that exceeds everyone else and their itty bitty flashes.
Liz Kelly: Hurley seems to have total recall of his island life since his beachy Libby kiss a few episodes back. One can only extrapolate that he is benefiting from the knowledge gained by subsequent kissing.
lostmumblings: In "Across the Sea, Jacob's mother mumbles something over the wine when she's passing over her job and again last night when Jacob was passing over his job to Jack he mumbles something over the drink. Does anyone know what the heck they're saying?? What are these magic blessings. And was Widmore's weird sounding whispers to Locke in Latin?? That was some crazy whispering noises.
washingtonpost.com: From Lostpedia:
"A likely translation of the Latin incantation Mother makes when offering the wine to Jacob as his initiation is "For we do not accept this just as a common drink, but as if that (he?) should be one with me." (Nam non accipimus hoc quasi vulgarem potionem, sed ut ille sit quasi unus mecum.) "
Liz Kelly: Thanks Paul.
As for that whispering, that was another rather annoying bit of trickery in last night's show. I mean, whispering so we can't hear? What is this -- "Saved by the Bell?"
Snack Food:: Mr. Cluck's chicken of course.
Liz Kelly: Ding ding ding.
Buffalo, New York: Will we find out in the finale why Dharma kept dropping food? They somewhat disappeared completly from the show. Please post this, I'm writing from French class!
Liz Kelly: Bonjour, mon ami. Ecouter et repeter... or something like that.
I'm guessing that the Dharma drops will, sadly, probably not be one of the mysteries we'll have solved in the finale. There are just too many larger questions that still have yet to be answered. And, in the meantime, we need to get to Jack's big MIB confrontation. Oh, and reach some kind of denouement (Francais!) in sideways world.
Washington DC: I have to say it, but I don't think Jacob was cast well. All the other casting has been just spot on, but I just don't get anything from the Jacob character. Agree?
Liz Kelly: Not at all! In fact, I think Mark Pellegrino has done a fabulous job playing what has been a nuanced and ambiguous character.
When we assumed him to be omniscient, he was able to carry his lines with the requisite subtle authority. And, since last week when we found out he pretty much considers himself a failure, well, he's done an equally fine job of adding that note to his delivery.
Arlington, VA: Where is Miles? I thought he slipped out with Widmore and Zoe, but was not with them in Ben's secret room when MIB and Ben came calling. And what, if anything, was the walkie talkie doing for him?
Liz Kelly: Miles took off on his own into the jungle. Will we ever see him again? Good question... though Ben did make a point of giving him that walkie "in case I need you."
Just a second here...: Who said Richard was dead? Smokey just batted him out of the picture, but I don't think we can assume that he is deceased. I think he'll be showing up for the final battle on Sunday.
Liz Kelly: You could be absolutely right. He might have just been swept away by an angry Smokey only to be dealt with later. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if he did bite it since Lapidus was offed with less fanfare.
Script writing: Jack HAS to be the hero. That's the rules of writing construction. He was the designated protaganoist from the start. Yet, I don't know if being the hero means that he is the candidate. I do suspect he has figured it all out, and he will solve everything.
Liz Kelly: Again, I'm convinced it will be a team effort. Though if someone needs to, say, sacrifice himself to bring this thing to a close -- I think that person would be Jack.
Kate and the dress from Des is a reference: to when Mr. Friendly gave Kate a dress to wear to have breakfast with Ben when the Others kidnabbed Kate, Jack and Hurley at the end of Season 2. So it was beginning of Season 3. And Kate asked Ben, why am I wearing this dress? And Ben said, So you could remember what it was like to feel like a lady.
And we were like, oh blech. They had breakfast. Not ham.
Liz Kelly: I do remember that ugly floral print. Ick nast, indeed.
So are you suggesting that this is more proof that sideways Desmond has become, in essence, island Ben?
Why Jacob Chose Them: Does it really matter? Whether he chose them because they're all the same astrological sign or because they all have great hair, they're all still on the island either way. I'm inclined put this in the "what happened happened" column. There's only so much time left to explain things and bring the series to a satisfying conclusion, and this kind of info--not unlike the outrigger mystery from last season--isn't particularly important in my opinion.
Liz Kelly: Out of the billions of people in the world, Jacob chose this crew and... well... I still just don't get why. But maybe the point is that it could have been anyone. I dunno. I see your point, but I'm still dissatisfied.
New York, NY: This is kinda geeky, I know, but what do you make of the fact that Jacob drank a cup of mumbled-over wine to join the Immortal Enlightened Island Guardians Club, while Jack drank a cup of mumbled-over water?
p.s. love you guys. Can you just make up a fake season 7 and blog about it next fall?
Liz Kelly: Hmm, that's not a half bad notion. Or we could try to find a donkey wheel to turn to push us back six years and start this thing all over again.
I've said it before...: The final conclusion of Lost has been playing out, right in front of us, this entire season. The sideways world IS the conclusion--because how much of a downer would it be if everybody is so much better, and happier, in sideways world, only to have that taken away? The only real question is, how do we get there from here? Somehow they have to sink the island, and somehow that re-sets everything--all their lives, in fact the whole world--back to before Jacob ever found and touched all of them.
Liz Kelly: I think, like you, that yes -- they will (or most of them will) end up in sideways world.
But here's the thing: Are the island Losties and Desmond and the sideways world Losties working at cross purposes? On the island, it would seem that the plan is to destroy MIB/the island in order to save the world. Yet, back in sideways world, Desmond seems to be working overtime to get the Losties to return -- at least mentally -- to the island.
Ben's deal?: Did MIB tell Ben that if he helped him, Ben would get the island? But then at the end he told Ben that he wants to destroy the island. So, what's in it for Ben to help him now? Will this ultimately lead to Ben changing sides for, like, the fifth time?
Liz Kelly: I think Ben may have been influenced a bit by MIB last night, but I'm not convinced he's under his power -- ala Sayid earlier in the season. I think Ben is acting to bring about his own desired outcome and, right now, his path lies parallel to MIB's. But, yep, I do think Ben will ultimately betray MIB and, as some have suggested, possibly have a direct hand in MIB's destruction.
My best guess as to why Ben returned to his ruthless self last night? Because he was reminded of his utter guilt in Alex's death and gave himself up as a rotten man. But he's out for vengeance now. He smoked Widmore and I think he's aiming for MIB next.
Going Back 6+ Years: If you knew then what you know now about Lost, what would you do differently? Learn Latin? Major in Advanced Theoretical Physics? What?
Liz Kelly: Move to Hawaii?
Love hurts: Is there really "a supernatural inability to physically harm each other" or is that just part of the mythology? In "Across the Sea" Jacob beat his bro to a pulp and then ultimately killed him. So much for not being able to physically harm each other.
washingtonpost.com: But Smokey def. couldn't kill Jacob -- that's why he needs to set up the years-long process of getting Ben to do it.
Here's a question though; how long did MiB start with that plan? Did he corrupt Ben as a child and manipulate Sayid into going into the past and shooting him, or did he just take advantage of circumstances as they occurred?
Liz Kelly: I don't know that MIB did have to use Ben to kill Jacob. He just believed he did.
Life without Lost: My daughter and I were chatting post-show last night (she's in college) and we realized that she is now 20 and started watching Lost when she was 14. She became a woman to Lost. Six years is a long time. What are we going to do without Lost. I'm losing it now.
Liz Kelly: No losing it allowed. At least not until Monday's chat!
But stay tuned for a Hank Stuever piece that is set to appear in Style Friday that kind of charts the parallels between Lost and the U.S. over the past six years. Not quite what you're getting at, but close...
Happy Hour? DC: When is the Happy Hour? Did I miss it? Is it this week? Next week?
washingtonpost.com: LOST Finale Fest Happy Hour
Liz Kelly: Tomorrow night -- 6 - 8 or 9 p.m. at the Reef in Adams Morgan. Please come!
Falls Church, VA: Weeks ago I posted a prediction that Locke may try to use Desmond as a vehicle off the island through D's special electro powers. And you SCOFFED AT ME! (Actually, you didn't post my comment, and might not have even read it. But it FELT like scoffing). Anyway, now who is scoffing?
Liz Kelly: I don't recall doing any scoffing. And Jen's not here to defend herself, but I'm sure I would have recalled her scoffing, too... and I don't.
So, I guess that leaves you scoffing?
Best line of the night: "He doesn't get to save his daughter." Gave me chills.
Liz Kelly: Same.
Sarasota, FL: Wait... remember how Jack was all lame at the end of last season and said that he wanted to detonate the bomb so he could have another chance at a relationship with Kate? So, I guess that is all out the window? What was the point of that then last season? I guess he could have changed his mind along the way but it was such a lame excuse last season I hate to see it so casually tossed aside without explanation.
Liz Kelly: But Jack didn't have the information then that he has now. So it's perfectly plausible -- at least to me -- that he would have (somewhat selfishly) thought detonating the bomb would give him a second chance.
Now, though, he's moved beyond selfish motives and is all about saving the world.
And I don't think that makes last season a throw away. It was just something we had to go through to get from there to here.
Jack's shaving cut: I think it's a sign that he's disappearing from the sideways world. By taking Jacob's role, he disappears from the world as we know it, but saves everybody else, allowing them to continue their lives in the sideways world (which therefore, becomes the real world). But then what, I wonder, is the purpose of Desmond getting them all together in the sideways world. Maybe it's simply to remember the love and connections they all made on the island, and to honor the heroic move Jack made to save them all, by thanking him (with his son's beautiful classical music as a backdrop) before he disappears? It's like Donnie Darko (ha!). He had to die so that all his loved ones would live in an alternative reality that becomes the real reality. But everyone he touched will be left with an emotional memory of him even though that reality (the island) no longer exists in their world. Is that possible? Thanks, girls. p.s. I don't think Ben will be able to kill Jack. I don't believe he can be that evil after everything that has happened. I think he's just self-interested and confused, but when the moment comes to kill Jack, he won't be able to.
Liz Kelly: That reminds me of one of the predictions submitted to our Message in a Bottle feature that I particularly liked. It kind of goes along with what you're saying:
With MIB dead and the island saved, the ending will be a sad farewell scene between the few characters who survive and Jack, who they must leave behind, completely alone, to guard the island for eons to come. Probably they leave knowing they won't even be able to remember him in their new timeline. Plus, as the saying goes: Skate happens.
Both end up with Jack sacrificing himself so that others may live. There we go getting Biblical again...
AfterLost: In the great tradition of "AfterMash," "Joey" and the recently failed "Scrubs" pseudo spinoff: Premiering next season on ABC, "AfterLost": Ben, Rousseau, and their daughter Alex, are a family struggling to get by on a teacher's salary -- but they make it on a steady diet of coq au vin and love! Hurley is their wacky neighbor who always pops in with his crazy requests. Lil' Jacob and Lil' Smokey are two neighborhood scamps who bring mischief . . . and smiles . . . everywhere they go.
Liz Kelly: We'll have to add that to our "Lost" spin-offs list. My favorite, though, remains the Sawyer/Miles buddy cop show.
Liz Kelly: Okay, that's it for today. Keep checking the blog through the rest of the week and over the weekend for more "Lost" content. We'll be doing a Lost 5 post on Sunday ahead of the finale and back here Monday afternoon for our finale chat. Sniff sniff.
30 Rocked: We haven't even celebrated Dirty Liz's sweet demise. Did I hear her gurgle "Blerg!" right after she'd been slashed?
Liz Kelly: Good point. I think she was totally Lizzing.
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