Faith on the Trail

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Faith on the Trail

posted at 12/12/2007 9:30 PM EST

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Ramesh_Ponnuru

First post: 7/25/2007
Last post: 11/24/2009
Total posts: 273

Last week Mitt Romney gave a speech about "Faith in America," including his own Mormon faith. Mike Huckabee ran an ad that called him a "Christian leader"--and later switched it to "proven leader." Now he has had to backtrack again, apologizing for raising questions about Mormonism.

The Republicans don't have a monopoly on this kind of political religion. Michelle Obama says of her husband, "We need a leader who's going to touch our souls." Oprah Winfrey says that candidates sometimes tell the truth, but "we need politicians who know how to be the truth.” (At least she didn't say "the way, the truth, and the life.")

At the moment in Iowa, the leading candidates are the ones who are running on faith--in evangelical Christianity, in Huckabee's case, and in Barak Obama, in Obama's.

Is this the future of American politics? I hope not.

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Faith on the Trail

posted at 12/13/2007 11:30 AM EST

RollaMO

First post: 10/23/2007
Last post: 2/28/2008
Total posts: 7

Ramesh, you see no irony in the Frankenstein's monster created and relied upon by the party for the last 20 plus years?

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god's position on SCHIP

posted at 12/13/2007 11:33 AM EST

JoeT1

First post: 10/5/2007
Last post: 10/29/2009
Total posts: 167

the point being he doesn't have one, of course. politicians who want to inject their religion on the trail keep telling us their faith informs their actions. but how exactly? can't someone who is a lapsed catholic have the same position on any issue as a fundamentalist? and any given lapsed catholic could maintain that position (let's just say pro life) just as well as Mitt Romney (just to pick someone whose committment to the issue can be questioned). so unless you are actually pandering to those who think only believers should serve in the first place, and especially the believers in your church, what difference does belief make? if Jefferson told voters today what he believed about god he couldn't get elected dogcatcher. what a shame.

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uh, what???

posted at 12/13/2007 11:38 AM EST

khote14

First post: 8/1/2007
Last post: 11/26/2009
Total posts: 146

A right-wing republican complaining about too much faith on the campaign trail?

I say again ... what????

You folks in the republican party wouldn't be where you are now without the culture war your religous owners declared on America. You seemed so happy to gather as many faithist votes as you could get, so what's going on now, buyer's remorse?

Why didn't you bring this up when bush was running in 2000?

And Romney specifically told me that as a man without faith I am not worthy to be American. This is what your party is all about now.

And trying to tar Obama with the same brush as the evangelicals ... that's really just sad.

You're lost now aren't you Ramesh? The neocons and the religious fanatics have taken over your party from you and you mean to say you didn't see it happening? Hell, I left in 1988 when Pat Robertson ran for the republican nomination.

Just because the democrats suck doesn't mean the republicans don't suck harder. And just because some few republicans don't suck doesn't mean most of them aren't busy out there destroying everything they can get their hands on.

Ramesh, are you feeling a little abandoned these days?

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Your party caused this.

posted at 12/13/2007 12:03 PM EST

TruthShallSetUsFree

First post: 7/12/2007
Last post: 1/22/2008
Total posts: 38

You and your party made this bed, now it's time for you to lay in it. Religious discussion, in it's current state, should never have been injected into politics, but the republican party (especially Karl Rove and the like) created a couple of wedge issues and injected them into the political discussion in order to get evangelicals and other radical christian groups to vote for the GOP.

You hope this isn't the future of American politics??????!!!!! How dare you. That is such a classic republican response. You do anything and everything to gain power, screw everything up and then when RATIONAL, sane people begin to realize that they've been hoodwinked and vote in another direction, now you hope this isn't the future of American politics. The republican party is living a lie and has been for many years, hence the ridiculousness, hatred and bias that is on display every time you guys have a debate. Enjoy what you've helped to create, Ramesh, you deserve it.

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From an Atheist

posted at 12/13/2007 1:00 PM EST

Doug0

First post: 12/13/2007
Last post: 4/14/2008
Total posts: 10

People use pseudo-science when they don't understand how the world works. Primitive man attributed weather to angry gods; ignorant modern people believe in astrology and creationism.

The candidates know the real issues are old age pension reform and improved relations among different socio- and ethnic-groups, but they have no idea how to solve those, so they run on faith.

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Didn't somebody write a book?

posted at 12/13/2007 3:55 PM EST

enkidu1

First post: 11/20/2007
Last post: 6/4/2008
Total posts: 8

Well, with buck-grabbing pundits churning out polemics such as "The Party of Death", the politicians will believe that there is political gain in pious displays. This is the future of politics, and the future is now.

Of course there are still differences. The Dem candidates will stand there and say "I am a religious person", while the Rep candidates will say "you should only vote for a religious person. By the way, can I tell you how right I am with the Lord?"

I don't expect there to be much of a change anytime soon, so long as there are publishing houses devoted to "special interests" readers and unscrupulous writers looking for an easy dollar.

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It matters...

posted at 12/14/2007 12:16 AM EST

MercatorMTM

First post: 12/7/2007
Last post: 8/20/2008
Total posts: 5

...Faith, that is.

I hear you that the Huckabee camp is pretty lousy with the innuendos about Mormonism...and that Oprah's messianic twitch for Obama gives me pause as well.

That said, once the general underpinnings of societal cohesion no longer agree with biblical Christianity, which adheres to a vast array of commonly accepted norms--even between a snake-handler and a Lefebvrite--including the Decalogue and the desire for temporal powers to accord with the natural law and the gospel--once that is no longer the faith held by the candidates nor the culture from which the candidates come (America having shed many of its Christian attributes over the last 50 years) then things have to turn to religion to a certain extent because the shattered cultural consensus no longer serves as a trusty form of appeal for candidates: "I will uphold the Constitution" barely means anything any more; neither does "I am a patriot"--these are confusing times and religion provides a bedrock from which to reason, as it always has...contrary to the currently vogue disgust with the reality that faith and reason cannot be seperated--a point, in perhaps a touch of tragic irony, driven home by Romney himself in the speech that inspired this post.

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just the opposite, I'm afraid

posted at 12/14/2007 11:55 AM EST

dgblues

First post: 8/20/2007
Last post: 8/20/2009
Total posts: 365

"religion provides a bedrock from which to reason"

To the contrary: religion provides comforting relief from the burden of reason.

Which in turn breeds an arrogant self-assurance that has gotten mankind into trouble, repeatedly, for the entirety of known history.

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Re: just the opposite, I'm afraid

posted at 12/14/2007 7:09 PM EST

MercatorMTM

First post: 12/7/2007
Last post: 8/20/2008
Total posts: 5

Replying to:

That doesn't sound very reasonable.

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Faith on the Trail

posted at 12/16/2007 10:28 AM EST

janus555

First post: 12/16/2007
Last post: 12/16/2007
Total posts: 1

Not to worry. The neoconic fascists in control of the Republican Party wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross will get the Southern Strategy propaganda mill into full operation in Dupedom South at the proper time. The pathetic Dupes will appear and cheerfully vote against their own political and economic interests having been deluded into the notion that to vote for other than a Rambo Republican is unAmerican and unsupportive of the troops.

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Catholic League comments

posted at 12/18/2007 10:52 AM EST

dgblues

First post: 8/20/2007
Last post: 8/20/2009
Total posts: 365

Arch-conservative Catholic League head Bill "Bulldog Fart" Donahue came out against a recent Huckabee commercial that he felt exploited religion to the point of perversion.

You know, kinda like what Donahue himself does, but more in the stoic, regimented style of Catholic liturgy than the Huckster's evangelical appeal.

Is Donahue a Giuliani supporter?

Oh no, that can't be: Giuliani is a baby killer. Never mind that.

Romney then? Maybe: he did do a little defending of Romney in the process.

Whatever the motive for one religious zealot to lambaste another one in public, it certainly is delicious to watch them eat their own. Between the Mormons, the Catholics, and the Evangelicals, it's going to be one hell of an entertaining spectacle to watch.

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Re: just the opposite, I'm afraid

posted at 12/18/2007 11:05 AM EST

dgblues

First post: 8/20/2007
Last post: 8/20/2009
Total posts: 365

Replying to:

Replying to:
"religion provides a bedrock from which to reason"

To the contrary: religion provides comforting relief from the burden of reason.

Which in turn breeds an arrogant self-assurance that has gotten mankind into trouble, repeatedly, for the entirety of known history.
Posted by dgblues

That doesn't sound very reasonable.
Posted by MercatorMTM

That an objective statement of truth seems unreasonable in itself demonstrates that reason is at odds with faith.

That's why it's called "faith." Deciding what's truth comes from faith, not reason.

Faith is dogma. Faith is synonymous with tradition. Faith abhors change.

Reason is introspective. Reason reserves the right to get smarter. Reason is always a work in progress.

Taking something on faith relieves one of the burden of reason.

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Re: Faith on the Trail

posted at 12/18/2007 11:30 AM EST

CB5308

First post: 11/28/2007
Last post: 1/16/2008
Total posts: 27

Replying to:

The Republicans do have a monopoly on religion and politics. No one is running around saying that the Democrats don't have anyone to vote for, like the R's are. No one is suggesting that Barack and Hillary and Edwards should go speak at Liberty University. These are Republican problems.

I think you may be going too far in saying that Barack is running on his faith. Touching our souls isn't necessarily a religious thing, either. I've met Barack, spoken with him one on one, watched him captivate a crowd, and it moved me. I'm not the least bit religious. Being moved by someone isn't linked to a religious doctrine. It's a human thing, it's an emotional thing, it requires believing that there can be good in politics and people, but it doesn't require religion. Neither does freedom. Romney should have been pulled off stage with a big hook for that one.

Yes, unfortunately, we are stuck with this in American politics. Until the Republicans decide that real issues are more important than the evangelical vote, we are stuck with it. Until we stop asking about candidates religious views on issues, and "what would jesus do", it's not going away. Thankfully, the Democrats, for the most part, have spared us the headache of having to really listen to it.

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Religion is a personal matter, not a qualification for office

posted at 12/18/2007 3:20 PM EST

bettyj001

First post: 11/26/2007
Last post: 1/11/2008
Total posts: 9

I have followed election news and commentary closely on www.polijam.com and have been highly offended by the elevation of religion as a qualification for office. Hey, isn't this the US, where no religious qualification is supposed to be required?

In examining candidates, in addition to investigating the positions on various issues, I look for a person with integrity and high morals, both in word and action. It is certainly difficult to find such a person, considering that all of those who are running are politicians. However, I don't care what, if any, specific religion the person professes.

I especially resent Huckabee's offensive remarks against the Mormon Church (and I am not a Mormon), and his comments that this country must be led by a Christian.

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