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Obama Swings for the Swing Voters

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Obama Swings for the Swing Voters

posted at 8/29/2008 4:26 AM EDT

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EJ_Dionne

First post: 5/22/2007
Last post: 10/9/2009
Total posts: 358

Barack Obama's speech had to carry a heavy load of political imperatives. It worked, and it may have worked especially well because of what some of his fans might have missed: He was a lot longer on what he'd do in office than on inspiration. Yes, there was inspiration at the end and in how he told his personal story. But he wasn't trying to make the faithful swoon. He was telling the machinist in Ohio and the nurse in Pennsylvania that he was on their side, knew what their struggles were like -- and would give them a tax cut. He pushed back against the charges that will fly from the Republican campaign apparatus. And he took on John McCain with a directness that heartened Democrats. I offer an overall take on the speech and the Convention in my column today. (And by the way, I was disappointed in my friend Ramesh Ponnuru's statement on Right Matters that Obama "has followed a no-enemies-to-the-left approach to politics that put him in the company of an unrepentant terrorist." That is absolute rubbish, Ramesh.) How do you grade Obama and his convention?

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Re: Obama Swings for the Swing Voters

posted at 8/29/2008 7:25 AM EDT

MiltonG1

First post: 8/19/2007
Last post: 11/26/2009
Total posts: 3419

Replying to:

Hmmmm, Disguising tax credits for people who pay no taxes as tax "cuts" while increasing yet again taxes on those who do is not really a tax cut, is it? Its a new government giveaway program - when we are not trying to disguise leftist as a centrist we call this what it is: spending.

If we pull the rhetorical mask off of the Obama plan it essentially boils down to the return of big expanding government with increasing taxes, a massive increase of government, and a hard left shift from decisions on investment made by people who are creating jobs to politicians.

This is not a new kind of politics, but a return to failed leftist policies, but disguised with feel-good rhetoric delivered in pulpit echoing meter. Will the ruse it work? Only time can tell, it has worked before and it has failed before.

Certainly the left-leaning media will, either overtly or unwittingly, do its part in not exposing the subterfuge and by providing unquestioning credence to the party’s messengers in sham interviews as they spread the latest daily or weekly talking point message list without an honest challenge of truth and by relaying and amplifying these same points through editorials and weaving its themes into sidebar stories and in the selection of non-news message programming. I recall the coronation trip abroad and the army of loyal “journalists” covering this newsworthy vacation trip of Obama’s whirlwind introduction in geopolitical geography.

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Re: Obama Swings for the Swing Voters

posted at 8/29/2008 7:32 AM EDT

waylandadmin

First post: 9/1/2007
Last post: 6/11/2009
Total posts: 2509

Replying to:

This is not a new kind of politics, but a return to failed leftist policies, but disguised with feel-good rhetoric delivered in pulpit echoing meter. Will the ruse it work? Only time can tell, it has worked before and it has failed before.

Posted by MiltonG1

When did it fail?

When did rightist policies work?

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'Bout Time

posted at 8/29/2008 7:39 AM EDT

Maddogg

First post: 7/25/2007
Last post: 11/26/2009
Total posts: 2173

Attack.

The Republicans don't have anything to offer except more trillions in off-budget spending, high inflation, deficits, and same ole same ole.

Obama got the nation reved up.

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Re: Obama Swings for the Swing Voters

posted at 8/29/2008 8:02 AM EDT

DwightHCollins

First post: 3/10/2008
Last post: 2/28/2009
Total posts: 91

obama lies, America will pay for obama's ego...

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Airing Laundry

posted at 8/29/2008 8:06 AM EDT

busstopbud

First post: 3/12/2008
Last post: 4/10/2009
Total posts: 12

The thing I saw was a good description of the failures which have come from the Cheney/Bush republican machine. Obama outlined ideas to create jobs and help people who are now going into incredible debt for an education or who get caught in medical expenses that can bankrupt any average American. He answered the rediculous notion that Liberal Americans are any less patriotic than conservatives. There will be the figurativly blind who critisize Obamas speech but they would criticize anything he said. We need to pity these poor ultra self centered individuals and keep them in our prayers that they someday think of a way the world can be a better place instead of the greedy mentality that has gotten us in the mess we are in after suffering so many years of destructive republican policies.

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McCain Still Misleading Voters

posted at 8/29/2008 8:09 AM EDT

Maddogg

First post: 7/25/2007
Last post: 11/26/2009
Total posts: 2173

With his talk of off-shore drilling saving the day. He is also still trying to stiff America with his insistence on clinging to the neo-cons of his party.

The Obama speech last nite must have made McCain go into a temper tantrum.

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What?

posted at 8/29/2008 8:12 AM EDT

greenacres2000

First post: 4/18/2008
Last post: 8/29/2008
Total posts: 4

Failed leftist policies? Return of big government? Have you been asleep for the past 8 years?

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Big Government Grew Under Bush

posted at 8/29/2008 8:18 AM EDT

Maddogg

First post: 7/25/2007
Last post: 11/26/2009
Total posts: 2173

Now, even the overnment listens to all private conversations of Americans and lets then drown too.

Bush-McCain government to big and to broken.

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Re: Obama Swings for the Swing Voters

posted at 8/29/2008 8:26 AM EDT

steveboyington

First post: 9/8/2007
Last post: 11/28/2009
Total posts: 2039

Replying to:

obama lies, America will pay for obama's ego...
Posted by DwightHCollins

Curious position coming off the current administration, which took a surplus to a record budget deficit.

Obama could be as bad as anyone fears and still outperform the GOP era of the last 7 years.

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Think of It

posted at 8/29/2008 8:29 AM EDT

just_another_poster

First post: 5/20/2008
Last post: 8/29/2008
Total posts: 8

We could create a real ObamaNation. We could test policies dating to Biblical times. Do you give a hungry man a fish or do you teach him to fish?

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responding to MiltonG1

posted at 8/29/2008 8:34 AM EDT

miashine

First post: 8/29/2008
Last post: 8/29/2008
Total posts: 3

This may sound good " Disguising tax credits for people who pay no taxes as tax "cuts" while increasing yet again taxes on those who do is not really a tax cut, is it? Its a new government giveaway program "
but its patently false unless of course ninety percent of us pay no taxes....even people who pay no federal taxes pay state and sales taxes.....the question is about fairness, why should corporate America get all kinds of tax breaks and the wealthiest Americans be able to use tax attorneys to avoid paying anything that approaches their fair share of taxes.?What about a line by line review of the programs that don't work. he does indeed suggest cutting programs(a thing many Republicans might appreciate)many of these "progams)that allow politicians to reward big money supporters with pork barrel spending that can not easily be traced back to them? My take on it is that the middle class and working poor give much to the economy,they often do work for which they are frankly underpaid ,and that many people lack the emotional resources to tackle,think police work ,think nursing assistants ,think teachers and para professionals who support them ,and child care workers ,and mental health care workers and on and on and on.....as for government spending ten billion dollars a month in Irag now that is some kind of spending ,bailing out business that fails because of greed is big spending....Investing in education and empowering the working class - middle class is far more powerful when it comes to building a strong nation....I liked the speech...and that the man let some of the keen frustration many of us feel work its way into his delivery....

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CNN hook: Rock star nomimee

posted at 8/29/2008 8:37 AM EDT

NHThinker

First post: 10/7/2007
Last post: 9/7/2009
Total posts: 2762

I think Obama gave an excellent- us versus them, poor/middle class versus the evil rich - speech. Reminds by of Edwards rhetoric.

But the hook for one segment this morning on CNN prior to commercials was the "Rock Star nominee".
Obama's trappings last night were more Hollywood-slick rock star than penny-pinching civil servant. I think on balance it will play lukewarm with independents: Independent may worry that a President Obama would spend their money extravagantly:

Most independent and undecided voters lean conservative and focus ongoing self-reliance and personal initiate and do not vote in extravagant spenders.

CNN was playing a hook for their next segment this morning used the description "Rock Star Candidate".

MSNBC titles segments earlier in the week as 'Rock Star' Candidate.

When CNN and MSNBC are sometimes using McCain's rhetoric to title Obama, I think he will have trouble shaking it.

The networks this morning are using more air time on the possible McCain VP selection than the results of the Democratic convention or Obama's speech.

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Obama Swings for the Swing Voters - Obama Moved a Couple of Clicks Towards to Center

posted at 8/29/2008 8:38 AM EDT

Vunderlutz

First post: 3/3/2008
Last post: 11/25/2009
Total posts: 345

Replying to:

Barack Obama's speech had to carry a heavy load of political imperatives.

He was telling the machinist in Ohio and the nurse in Pennsylvania that he was on their side, knew what their struggles were like

How do you grade Obama and his convention?
Posted by EJ_Dionne

I grade Obama a "10" for content; a "10" for execution; and a "10" for artistic creativity (of the political kind). His acceptance speech was clean, crisp, tight and right-on. Some of the talking heads sounded like they were sitting on twisted knickers and knotted shorts because Obama wasn't "Mr. Eloquence".

And, he wasn't. Last night, Obama became "Mr. Gonna-Get-It-Done". He dropped the intellectualizing and the appeals to the higher, lofty centers of the brain. He focused on the emotive centers of the listeners...he clearly demonstrated he is a native son of America, and can be counted as one of the regular people. He also showed he had fire in the belly. Finally.

And yes, E.J., I agree he was looking for the swing voters. Obama is steadily, albeit subtlety, moving to the center. I believe last night he started to connect with the swing voters.

Also, it appears to me there is no naiveté in this man whatsoever. He is fully aware of where he is; he is always in control of his presense; and to this point it's clear to me, he intellectually and instinctively knows how to go about doing what needs to be done.

I grade the convention as a whole 6-6-5 (using the scale above).

Inasmuch as I have been a Republican for over 40-years, I don't do well when I am exposed for protracted periods to large groups of Democrats idealizing among themselves. It damages my brain like a severe sunburn damages the skin. I supported Obama from the start because I never saw him as a "full-bred Democrat".

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Nothing Has Changed

posted at 8/29/2008 8:42 AM EDT

rljmsilver

First post: 8/29/2008
Last post: 10/1/2008
Total posts: 12

Obama is a great orator. So.........? He cannot connect with alot of the swing voters because they need to see and hear the real Obama, not the one hidden behind the teleprompter. What Obama said at Saddleback was real and mostly honest. I say "mostly" because when he said "It is above my pay grade", when asked at what point does a conceived unborn child have human rights. He did not want to say : that is a political choice by my supporters not a moral issue for me. While Obama cannot afford to have the swing voters know how far left and out of touch with them he is, he also cannot afford to come out in front of the teleprompter either.

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Re: Obama Swings for the Swing Voters

posted at 8/29/2008 8:52 AM EDT

spike3905

First post: 5/28/2007
Last post: 11/3/2008
Total posts: 1114

Replying to:

Certainly the left-leaning media will, either overtly or unwittingly, do its part in not exposing the subterfuge
Posted by MiltonG1

Andrew Sullivan used to be a traditional Reagan conservative. After eight years of Bush, he has become an Obama supporter:

"Look: I'm biased at this point. I'm one of those people, deeply distressed at what has happened to America, deeply ashamed of my own misjudgments, who has shifted out of my ideological comfort zone because this man seems different to me, and this moment in history seems different to me. I'm not sure we have many more chances to get off the addiction to foreign oil, to prevent a calamitous terrorist attack, to restore constitutional balance in the hurricane of a terror war.

I've said it before - months and months ago. I should say it again tonight. This is a remarkable man at a vital moment. America would be crazy to throw this opportunity away. America must not throw this opportunity away.

Know hope."

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Re: Obama Swings for the Swing Voters

posted at 8/29/2008 8:55 AM EDT

jheath53

First post: 8/29/2007
Last post: 5/29/2009
Total posts: 4085

Replying to:

Another example of your ignorance. Everybody who works pays taxes. People at the bottom end of the scale don't pay income taxes, but they do pay Social Security and Medicare taxes. The tax credits those people get go to pay off those SS taxes. Further, since there are various excise taxes, even if you don't have a job, you pay taxes. If you buy a gallon of gas, you pay taxes. If you buy anything shipped across state lines, the taxes the shippers pay are passed on to you.

So stop whining about how the poor don't pay enough in taxes. It's just another example of your lack of any real world experience and how you really don't understand economics, government, or tax policy.

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B- to B

posted at 8/29/2008 9:00 AM EDT

alex35332

First post: 4/23/2008
Last post: 10/21/2009
Total posts: 16

Bases for my analisys: I am an independant who does not vote for major party candidates, but I follow politics closer than probably 95% of the countrty.

I liked that he went after McCain, on his being "out of touch" its a subtle way to jab at someone for their age and social status. Though I think that’s he maybe did 5 attacks and could have been better if he just did 3-4, some of them were not as strong.

I liked that he actually put out a few positions. No great detail, which is expected, and I don't agree with some of them i.e.: clean coal, it’s a lie, doesn't exist. His healthcare plan does not deal with insurance companies as hard as it needs to. It’s laughable for any Democrat or Republican to claim that they will ever cleen up Washington, because there were subtel refrerences to major lobbies “we don’t mean you”, some quick ones I noticed, Clean Coal, the Insurance Industry, APAIC, and the MIC.

I think he made a mistake specifically referencing MLKJ. We all know it was the anniversary of "I have a dream", we know that you are playing to that moment. Don't quote him! High school graduation speeches quote King, not presidential candidates. The press is smart enoght to play up the King stuff, he did not need to.

In conclusion, not a bad speach. Not great. But if either of these guys really want to win, they need to say "I will put Ralph Nader and Bob Barr in my cabinate, we need ideas from out side the system'

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Re: Obama Swings for the Swing Voters

posted at 8/29/2008 9:01 AM EDT

spike3905

First post: 5/28/2007
Last post: 11/3/2008
Total posts: 1114

Replying to:

Certainly the left-leaning media will, either overtly or unwittingly, do its part in not exposing the subterfuge
Posted by MiltonG1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZotPTqj4qAU

Check out this analysis by Pat Buchanan at 2:10 in this clip, where he calls it the best convention speech ever. As much as the right would like to spin this, the appeal of this speech went far beyond the "left-leaning media."

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Re: Nothing Has Changed

posted at 8/29/2008 9:15 AM EDT

steveboyington

First post: 9/8/2007
Last post: 11/28/2009
Total posts: 2039

Replying to:

I understand the staunch anti-abortion views of many. However, those staunch anti-abortion folks have to recognize that a pretty solid majority of Americans do not want abortions to be made illegal.

Obama, with his support of maintaining the ability to get a legal abortion, is not on the radical fringe on this issue. He is solidly mainstream.

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