Right Matters: Talking About the Future of Conservatism With Ramesh Ponnuru

Republican Recriminations

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Republican Recriminations

posted at 11/20/2008 7:11 PM EST

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Ramesh_Ponnuru

First post: 7/25/2007
Last post: 11/24/2009
Total posts: 273

Conservatives are blaming one another for the Republican defeats, with some libertarians trashing neoconservatives, moderates blasting social conservatives, and immigration hawks and doves resuming their quarrel.

In the new issue of Time, I predict that, especially in the House, Republicans are going to line up on the socially conservative, immigration-skeptical, and anti-spending side of the party's current debates.

But I also argue that as much as these factional battles consume conservatives, they miss the point. The public has rejected Republicans on all sides of each of these debates. The logical conclusion is that it is something that all the factions share that the public dislikes.

I write: "When a party suffers the kind of beating the Republicans have taken in the past two elections, the public has not rejected one of its factions. It has rejected the party as a whole. Voters have turned on pro-choice as well as pro-life Republicans, on Senators who favored amnesty and ones who fought it. Evidently voters did not believe that Republicans of any stripe offered solutions to the challenges America faces now."

And I go on to offer some suggestions on what conservatives can do about that. But for now maybe the best question to ask is whether my diagnosis is correct. What do you think?

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Right Matters response

posted at 11/20/2008 8:40 PM EST

lksseven

First post: 11/20/2008
Last post: 12/23/2008
Total posts: 5

The Republicans have a lot of soul searching to do - agreed. I have 2 points: 1) I am a conservative who believes the best policies for the USA revolve around our core triumvirate (or at least 'my' core triumvirate) - limited govt, free markets/free speech, strong defense. If that adherence gets us back in power, great. If not, then I still believe it's better to stand up for what one believes is right, and not to throw that stance under the bus for the quest for power - the other party has a monopoly on bus traction, anyway; and 2) the Democrats being in power in a dangerous world will help win the Republicans votes in 2010 and 2012. I know that #2 isn't exactly a "plan", but it won't hurt!

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The Larger Problem

posted at 11/20/2008 9:12 PM EST

GaFreedomFighter

First post: 11/20/2008
Last post: 11/20/2008
Total posts: 1

I think Ramesh has missed the point. The public just cast some 58 million votes for a "Republican" who was hard to distinguish in many ways from his Democratic opponent. When you add this to the recent Zogby Obama-Voter Poll (which was one of the truest measures of the ignorance at work in this election)it paints a very different picture from the one Ramesh paints that "..the public has rejected Republicans on all sides of each of these debates". It hasn't. The public hasn't heard a Conservative Republican since Ronald Reagan stepped down. It has rightly rejected milquetoast McCainian/Doleian Republicans. If it wasn't for the odiousness of an Obama Presidency I would have done the same. The Larger Problem as I see it is that here is a major writer for National Review, a magazine I have subscribed to for over 33 years who seems to have lost his way. I am very seriously thinking about letting my subscription lapse....

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Rejected Republicans?

posted at 11/20/2008 9:52 PM EST

teknocrst

First post: 11/20/2008
Last post: 11/20/2008
Total posts: 1

Sure R's were rejected. Why? Because, as a party their feared their own success, cowered from the opposition and went into their shells, hoping to be loved by the media.An old coach would say always be on offense. Not advice heeded by Republicans. The Left and the media will never like/respect R's until they're dead (Reagan to some degree), yet social conservatism and economic conservatism is a winning combination (Prop 8, etc..). Evidence: If the electorate wanted to lurch hard Left, Obama would have run as a Leftist, but was afraid to. People bought the "change" mantra BECAUSE R's failed to govern in the Reagan tradition, and rejected the Bush mode of compassion...meaning more and more spending, all in the name of making your enemy love you...which is impossible. Now they have paid the price. But will the nation suffer?

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Well-written but partly wrong.

posted at 11/20/2008 10:39 PM EST

richardreed1

First post: 9/4/2008
Last post: 11/20/2008
Total posts: 3

This thoughtful and well-written article was (I believe)correct that any GOP attempted comeback will be tough on immigration, federal spending and Obama, as indeed it should be. Mr. Ponnuru is also correct that voters were hard on all Republicans this year (thank you, George Bush).

But I take strong issue on four points:
1. Sarah Palin is our possible salvation, not our 'problem.' Those who trash her or condescend to her should be shunned.
2. As a PhD geologist, I can tell you that the main arguments of global warming are more likely to be untrue than true. Beware of politicized science.
3. We are not Christian conservatives, nor small government conservative, etc. Most of us are mixtures, which is why the Reagan coalition worked.
4. This 'declining white population' blather, whether hopeful or alarmist, is RACIST and needs to stop right now. If the average American wants to see genuine non-racist behavior, there is no better example than the average white American.

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Social Conservatism in the Republican Party

posted at 11/20/2008 11:23 PM EST

rockinrobbie

First post: 11/7/2008
Last post: 11/20/2008
Total posts: 4

"But that argument got harder to make when California, one of the most liberal states in the country, passed a ballot initiative banning same-sex marriage."

Ponnuru seems to wilfully put blinders on with this statement to buttress the argument that social conservatism in the Republican party is a healthy faction. But this ignores the fact that the trend is against the social conservatives on this issue. In 2000, California passed the definition of marriage act (Prop 22) 62% to 38%. In 2008, the ban on gay marriage (Prop 8) barely passed 52% to 48%. That is a huge drop! On top of that, young voters overwhelmingly opposed Prop 8.

Look, if you want to have an honest argument about how to make the Republican party viable, you cannot keep running away from the fact that the country is not socially conservative. A zogby poll showed 60% of the population is fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Hello! That's a majority! People keep saying that the Republican party needs the social conseratives but I just think that's just wrong. If they would wake up and DUMP the social conservative agenda, and focus on what really makes conservative great (in the Goldwater/Reagan tradition), i.e., limited government, responsible fiscal policies, and personal freedoms (is it me, or have Republicans forgot that one), then guess what? You'd be the majority party overnight.

If the party keeps thinking that they need to keep social conservative mandates as part of its platform, it will consign itself permanently to obscurity. Maybe it could eek out a few election wins in the next couple of election cycles here and there, but look at the trends in the upcoming generation to see what the future looks like.

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2008 Election

posted at 11/21/2008 12:04 AM EST

fiveoaks

First post: 11/21/2008
Last post: 11/21/2008
Total posts: 1

Deep thought about the future of the Republican party is fine with me. But a change of 1 out of 15 voters (at least nationally) would have made a world of difference.

And it may be that this election was un-winnable.

Having said that, I would have liked a clearer vision of the US and a more stringent critique of the Democrats. In France we are called the neoliberals for a reason.

I think that most Republican leaders have a hard time explaining the problems with Euro-style governance. They tend to accept the arguments of the left.

They tend not to be forceful people. The Left has been schooled in Agit-prop, Direct Action and all kinds of clever things. They get their way a lot because they are noisy.

I think we need more street fighters. Schooled street fighters.

Also, in the last 2 elections, how many Republicans retired? How many refused to quit even though they were having legal troubles. I've read that Trent Lott retired so he could be a lobbyist. Schumer/Durbin/Boxer/Leahy aren't going anywhere soon.

We need committed people.

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Re: Social Conservatism in the Republican Party

posted at 11/21/2008 11:31 AM EST

mattn

First post: 11/21/2008
Last post: 11/21/2008
Total posts: 1

Replying to:

This basically nails it, but I'd add one other point. Poll after poll has shown, and the difference between Prop 22 and Prop 8 confirms, this issue to be undergoing a generational change. Not to put to fine a point on it, but a some of the voters who supported Prop. 8 will be dead in 8 years, and they will be replaced by younger voters much more likely to vote against it. The danger for the GOP is that it is defined by social conservative positions that are becoming seriously unpopular, which will just exacerbate the trend of the GOP becoming an elderly white rural party.

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Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

posted at 11/21/2008 11:43 AM EST

robertmerry

First post: 9/11/2007
Last post: 10/9/2009
Total posts: 70

Ramesh,

I think you're right, (no pun intended) but your conservative fellow travelers are still mired in their various ideologies and from my perspective that's great. The times we are now entering will not favor the small government crowd. People do not look to business or conservatives to get them out of the kind of economic mess that the Bushite republicans are leaving us. Your once favorite president is about to go out as George W. Hoover. The conservative/republican failure to recognize this fact is going to keep them in the wilderness for a long time. Conservatives and republicans need to go back and study Eisenhower, not Reagan.

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Re: Republican Recriminations

posted at 11/21/2008 11:52 AM EST

droops63

First post: 11/21/2008
Last post: 11/21/2008
Total posts: 1

I liked the article that you wrote, which basically says that the Republicans need to think about the day-to-day issues that affect voters, and come up with solutions. That's very true. But there still has to be a core philosophy that guides the party, and gives 'brand identification' that voters will understand.

I think this past election was a referendum on the current president more than anything else. Since the Republican party that controlled Congress was not true to it's core philosophy (which is generally limited government, but also needs to be 'competent' government and 'mature' (i.e. not rash) government), the 'brand identification' became a President that was not seen as a competent manager and a party hyper-concerned with social issues.

Prop. 8's narrower winning margin was more due to the Obama factor than anything else. Put it on the ballot in four years and I suspect that the result would be the same and the margin of victory wider. That's not to say that demographic trends aren't important. Older voters are going to leave first, and the younger generations are much more socially liberal . . . for now. There's no guarantee they'll stay that way, however.

Another factor to consider are issues like abortion, and the nuances in them. One person here cited a poll showing 60% of Americans being fiscally conservative and socially liberal. That's probably true. But, on abortion, while a majority probably supports keeping it legal, they'd also probably support a ban in the third trimester, parental notification, and no government funding for abortion. The issues are more nuanced, in other words, than many would have us believe.

I worked for a Republican Congressman almost 20 years ago, and have always preferred the low-tax, low-interference side of the party. As someone who does not follow any of the Abrahamic faiths, the moral issues that have moved to the fore in the party have almost no resonance with me at all. I acknowledge the importance of the social conservative voting block while finding it distasteful. Voters such as myself need to be accepted in the party ranks, and some peace be made, if we're to move forward from here.

Ultimately, IMO, if the Republicans can reclaim the mantle of 'responsible governance' it will go a long way towards being rewarded at the polls in the subsequent elections.

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George W. Bush

posted at 11/21/2008 11:58 AM EST

bsba07kennedy

First post: 11/21/2008
Last post: 12/30/2008
Total posts: 7

In answer to what has caused America to reject the Republican Party I submit to you the person of George W. Bush.

Fairly or unfairly (and I believe it to be the latter), this election was turned into a referendum on George W. Bush. The entire DNCC, DNSC, and Obama campaigns spent massive amounts of money tying anyone and everything to George W. Bush. Even John Sunnunu who lost his re-election bid tried to tie his Democratic opponent to Bush.

Even still, The Republicans only lost by 4 points. That was with a media directly in the tank for the Democratic Party and especially His Oneship, with a Presidential approval rating below freezing, and with a candidate who, quite frankly, pulled his punches and was a squish otherwise. Obama raked in a mere million more votes than George W. Bush in 2004. In contrast, McCain failed to reach John Kerry's vote numbers.

Insofar as platform issues, gay marriage is a loser every time it is placed on the ballot. Last time won with a larger margin because it was not a constitutional amendment. Constitutional Amendments toe a harder line than a vote to change a mostly symbolic effort. Moreover, both of the new big demographics in elections, Latinos and Blacks, voted for Prop 8. The primary supporters of gay marriage are white liberals under the age of 30. White liberals have a tendency over time to become white conservatives.

Social liberalism is a loser because most social liberals are people under 30, and they tend not to vote. Let the Democrats keep their failed, logic-contrary social agenda.

Limited Government, traditional values, strong defense. That should be the drumbeat of the Republican Party. McCain lacked that essential element of Limited Government with his CFR and cap-and-trade overreaches. He was weak in advocating traditional values. He was a Strong Defense candidate in an Economy election.

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Conservatism's Failure

posted at 11/21/2008 12:18 PM EST

mibrooks27

First post: 8/31/2007
Last post: 11/12/2009
Total posts: 171

The failure was not with conservative policies, it was with free trade and globalization. Can anyone seriously imagine Ronald Reagan embracing the kind of national suicide we have been engaged - outsourcing millions of jobs, displacing our hi-tech workforce with cheap Indian and Chinese workers, admitting foreign students into our essential-for-national-survival university science and engineering programs ahead of American students? Of course not. And, President Obama has announced that he wont just "stay the course" on this nonsense, he will *accelerate* it! Bush has been a disaster, but under Obama? .... you ain't seen nothing yet! At some point, over the past 8 years, you would think the connected, the insiders, the Washington "experts", would have gotten the message that we cannot outsource our jobs and manufacturing and technical base and hope to survive. Nope! Obama has staffed the ship of state with the same collection of self serving fools.

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Play up strenths, eliminate liabilites

posted at 11/21/2008 12:49 PM EST

mae_7381

First post: 11/21/2008
Last post: 11/21/2008
Total posts: 2

I may be the only liberal who chimes in on this discussion, but this is a valid question with lessons that each party can and should learn. The first reason why there was full scale revolt from Republicans: no fiscal responsibility. Social conservativism has taken a front seat and pushed fiscal responsibility (that used to be the Republican hallmark) into the faaaar back seat. Though many praise Reagan, it was during his tenure that a swing occurred from fiscal responsibility towards the frivolous spending Democrats were often accussed of.

The second reason: conservative is fine, as long as you are not polarizing. For those that say McCain pulled too many punches, he lost swing votes not because of who he was as a candidate but rather because of the special interests of the religious right that many voters have come to fear lurk in the dark corners. Many in my family who may have otherwise voted Republican, voted Democrat because the religious right and its alarming concern with a person's private life pushes a person's panic buttons. According to the Pew Research Center, within the age group of 18-29, 66% voted for Obama and 31% voted for McCain. This demographic is an increasing number of not only voters, but volunteers and organizers.

"Young voters are more diverse racially and ethnically than older voters and more secular in their religious orientation. These characteristics, as well as the climate in which they have come of age politically, incline them not only toward Democratic Party affiliation but also toward greater support of activist government, greater opposition to the war in Iraq, less social conservatism, and a greater willingness to describe themselves as liberal politically."

So, the prediction may be right that Republicans try to go the more socially conservative route. However, it would be a very stupid move. Republicans should play up their once perceived strength of fiscal responsibility, and if you're so gung-ho on small government then take the government out of the bedroom.

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Re: Republican Recriminations

posted at 11/21/2008 12:52 PM EST

GuineaPig_

First post: 9/24/2008
Last post: 11/7/2009
Total posts: 11

Replying to:

...
In the new issue of Time, I predict that, especially in the House, Republicans are going to line up on the socially conservative, immigration-skeptical, and anti-spending side of the party's current debates.
...
But for now maybe the best question to ask is whether my diagnosis is correct. What do you think?
Posted by Ramesh_Ponnuru

A discovery about brain function does not imply a value judgment.

Understanding the reality of the natural world shouldn't muddle the big questions about human experience.

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Recriminations

posted at 11/21/2008 12:53 PM EST

Chagasman

First post: 10/22/2007
Last post: 10/29/2009
Total posts: 65

Republicans lost because the American people finally realized that voting Republican was voting against their own best interests. The Republican party is filled with hypocrites.

While the Republicans claim they are fiscaly responsible they run up huge deficits. Reagan started us on the road to bankruptcy, Bush has driven us over the edge.

While the Republicans claim they are for individual freedom, they are all for government spying on citizens, legislating personal morality and values, indefinite detention without charges, and torture. Bush did all this and the Republicans supported him.

While the Republicans claim to be all for limited government, they refuse to tell the citizens what that limited government will be like. They waste billions privatizing government functions, they cut taxes for the rich instead of the middle class and poor, they advocate converting Social Security into another Wall Street scheme that as far as most people can see primarily benefits Wall Street investment bankers and leaves the citizens exposed to the viscitudes of the market.

The Republican party has been taken over by a gang of right-wing zealots who treat government as their own private fiefdom, not as a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Sarah Palin is not the savior of the Republican party. She has already shown the American people that she will abuse her power and use it for her own personal gain.

Time to wander in the wilderness for a couple decades and realize that Republicans must: Stop using racism, fear, and hatred as a campaign tactic, the "Southern strategy" doesn't work anymore. Stop saying that government is the problem and then fulfilling your prophecy by governing badly. Stop sabotaging the functions of government by weakening or ignoring rules and regulations that were put in place for to protect citizens health and safety and to prevent the economic meltdown we are now experiencing. Provide the same protection to citizens that you do for corporations. Stop treating corporations as favored citizens. Stop promoting ideology over science fact and common sense.

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Scientific Experimentation

posted at 11/21/2008 12:55 PM EST

GuineaPig_

First post: 9/24/2008
Last post: 11/7/2009
Total posts: 11

Replying to:

A discovery about brain function does not imply a value judgment.

Understanding the reality of the natural world shouldn't muddle the big questions about human experience.

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Republican Blues

posted at 11/21/2008 1:17 PM EST

jm817

First post: 11/21/2008
Last post: 11/11/2009
Total posts: 8

I think the Republicans are trying hard to avoid the truth. While the economy was fairly decent, they were successful in getting Americans who are morally conservative to back them. These people knew they were getting absolutely nothing from the party other than an agreement that the Republicans shared these people's values. Now that things have gotten a lot harder, I don't think people are willing to vote for people who merely share their values. They want their lives to be improved by the people they support. A government that governs least might be great for people who dont' need any help in their lives, but it is not great for those who do. I think the Republicans may find they cannot build a big enough base to win, unless they do some big-time changing.

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Liberal Press

posted at 11/21/2008 1:22 PM EST

yokosuka1985

First post: 11/21/2008
Last post: 11/22/2008
Total posts: 2

Until the right can figure out a way to get their message out they will continue to lose elections. The press is too powerful and too liberal and they control what message is put out and by whom.

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Re: Chagasman

posted at 11/21/2008 1:23 PM EST

bsba07kennedy

First post: 11/21/2008
Last post: 12/30/2008
Total posts: 7

Replying to:

Republicans lost because the American people finally realized that voting Republican was voting against their own best interests. The Republican party is filled with hypocrites.

[...]

The Republican party has been taken over by a gang of right-wing zealots who treat government as their own private fiefdom, not as a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. Sarah Palin is not the savior of the Republican party. She has already shown the American people that she will abuse her power and use it for her own personal gain.

Time to wander in the wilderness for a couple decades and realize that Republicans must: Stop using racism, fear, and hatred as a campaign tactic, the "Southern strategy" doesn't work anymore. Stop saying that government is the problem and then fulfilling your prophecy by governing badly. Stop sabotaging the functions of government by weakening or ignoring rules and regulations that were put in place for to protect citizens health and safety and to prevent the economic meltdown we are now experiencing. Provide the same protection to citizens that you do for corporations. Stop treating corporations as favored citizens. Stop promoting ideology over science fact and common sense.
Posted by Chagasman

You're right: the Republicans under George W. Bush acted too much like Democrats with different friends.

Instead of taxpayer funded abortions, trans fats bans, unlimited union power through Card Check, Orwellian speech codes and the Fairness Doctrice, goverment interference in lending standards via thugs like ACORN, forcing racial quotas, and unending financial support for insolvent government programs like social security and medicare, they instead chose individual pork barrel projects, global warming lies of the kind GISS likes to fabricate from month to month, and expanded corporate welfare.

To be sure, acting like Democrat-Lite for 6 years certainly hurt the Republican Party. Republicans were set up for failure by veering off message and nominating a messageless moderate.

Sarah Palin on the top of the ticket, unhindered by the stink of Washington and Squishiness emanated by McCain would have fared much better, but alas that is theorycraft.

As to the final bit: Barack Obama played the race card all election long. Please, the party that founded the KKK (Democrats for the uninformed) and plays the race card at every turn has no place whining about racism.

Democrats also have a penchant for accusing Republicans of wanting to declare martial law and kicking seniors out of their home. So much for "fearmongering."

If you want hatred, look no further than the No on 8 mob vandalizing Mormon churches and hurling epithets at African Americans (from the safety of their Castro homes, of course).

Please, don't pretend your own party doesn't stink. I know Keith Olbermann tells you otherwise, but really.

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Right Matters

posted at 11/21/2008 1:29 PM EST

art-mahoney

First post: 11/21/2008
Last post: 11/21/2008
Total posts: 1

The twin towers of conservatism have always been greed and intolerance. At least in the 67 years I've been observing American life. Their electoral prospects are now confined to the Bigot Belt. Our beloved country is moving way beyond the kind of 'thinking' they represent. May they rest in Peace.

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