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Begging Bush's Pardon

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Begging Bush's Pardon

posted at 11/17/2008 1:09 PM EST

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DanFroomkin

First post: 11/10/2008
Last post: 4/27/2009
Total posts: 22

Who will President Bush pardon on his way out the door? That's deservedly become the topic of Washington parlor games. So come into my parlor and share your thoughts: Who is he likely to pardon? Who should he pardon? Who shouldn't he pardon? And how likely is he to issue some sort of blanket pardon covering officials in his own administration and their conduct related to interrogation of terror suspects, civil liberties violations, and the like?

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A bunch of old white crooks who belong in jail ...

posted at 11/17/2008 1:58 PM EST

chrisfox8

First post: 7/8/2007
Last post: 11/26/2009
Total posts: 8459

... that's who. Sen. Stevens for certain loyal old anti-environmentalist that he is, probably one of the few people in the world Cheney would swerve to avoid in the road.

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A pre-emptive pardon?!

posted at 11/17/2008 2:23 PM EST

ecouls11

First post: 11/13/2008
Last post: 11/17/2008
Total posts: 3

I'm at a loss. I don't see how issuing such a thing to one or any number of adminstration officials (high or low level) could be seen as anything other than an admission of guilt. Otherwise, why would they need a pardon? A pardon is for those found (or almost assuredly found)to be guilty of a crime, no? Guh. I'm so sick and tired of the criminality of this administration.

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A pre-emptive pardon?!

posted at 11/17/2008 2:26 PM EST

ecouls11

First post: 11/13/2008
Last post: 11/17/2008
Total posts: 3

Sorry for the follow up but I got a little lost on a tangent. I forgot to mention my pick to recieve a pre-emptive pardon from GW. How 'bout former AG Alberto Gonzalez?

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Pardons Yes! No! Maybe?

posted at 11/17/2008 2:27 PM EST

m_mcmahon

First post: 11/12/2008
Last post: 4/24/2009
Total posts: 32

Bush has got to be torn on this one. On one side of the coin he has a whole slew of people who will be looking for pardons for a number of activities ranging from torture (Does Lindie England get a pardon? Do any of the Abu Ghraib crew?) and extraordinary rendition, to the warrantless wiretapping operators, to the people who developed and approved the programs up to people as high as Bush himself and Darth Cheney. The list of offenses or actions for which he may grant pardons is well known, just not who he would grant them to.

I think if he decides to grant the pardons that he definitely would take care of the top tier guys and the loyalists, it seems like that is what his administration was all about in so much of what they did. I wonder about the operational level people, the grunts, the nuts and bolts guys. Would he pardon them? I think he might simply to gain their loyalty and silence them.

Can he grant a blanket pardon for a specific crime? Or does he have to list out the individuals and what he is pardoning them for? What if the activity continues onto January 21st? What if an enhanced interrogation or a warrantless wiretap takes place after Obama takes office, but before he has a chance to get things straightened up? Does that open up all those who had January 20th pardons since their crimes continued into the new administration? Would the developers of the programs be opened to prosecution once more because of post pardon actions in the name of their programs even though their specific actions may have occurred in 2002?

To me the main reason Bush might not grant any pardons is that in granting pardons to all those people he will be tacitly admitting that his administration was operating outside the law, thus tarnishing his already tarnished legacy, though he may not see it as being tarnished. Why else would a pardon be necessary? Of course he may actually think there was nothing illegal done under his administration. I know that ultimately the spin will be that no crimes were committed, that the pardons were necessary to protect Bush loyalists from a vengeful politically motivated democratic party. But that argument may only work for the diehards. Of course how these things are investigated would tell how they are spun also.

I do have a couple of final questions…who will ask for a pardon for activities that we do not already know about? Will there be some surprise programs that we deeper in the shadows than light was able to penetrate? Can and will Bush undertake some sort of presidential action to somehow seal his pardon list so it will not be public knowledge?

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Pardon all the Secret Agencies

posted at 11/17/2008 2:48 PM EST

Lee_Prince

First post: 11/17/2008
Last post: 11/17/2008
Total posts: 1

In my opinion, the President SHOULD pardon all members of the Executive Branch involved in the War on Terror. The WORST thing that could happen in the next Administration would be a divisive set of criminal trials designed to criminalize public policy. You may agree strongly with (as I do), enhanced interrogation and any means to Win the war, or disagree. It is not good for the country to have our secret sources and methods compromised. The only way to prevent this would be to pardon all and grant them all Executive privilege from any testimony to any Congressional committee.

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Bush Pardons

posted at 11/17/2008 2:48 PM EST

politicalnewsjunkie5

First post: 11/17/2008
Last post: 11/17/2008
Total posts: 1

He will pardon all who participate in the destruction of documents from the Office of the Vice President.

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Too many to name so...

posted at 11/17/2008 2:49 PM EST

fatboysez

First post: 4/25/2008
Last post: 11/17/2008
Total posts: 5

O.J., Martha Stewart, Mark Cuban then the exhumed Ken Lay

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Re: Begging Bush's Pardon

posted at 11/17/2008 2:52 PM EST

bluffer

First post: 11/17/2008
Last post: 11/17/2008
Total posts: 2

Replying to:

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Blanket Pardon

posted at 11/17/2008 2:54 PM EST

bretb

First post: 10/17/2008
Last post: 11/17/2008
Total posts: 5

I have no doubt that Bush will issue some sort of blanket pardon covering officials in his own administration. Is it possible for him to add Cheney, and himself, to the list? It's my understanding that there are already some powerful attorney's preparing war crime lawsuits naming Bush and Cheney as litigants.

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On Pardon

posted at 11/17/2008 2:56 PM EST

elife1975

First post: 11/7/2008
Last post: 6/1/2009
Total posts: 3

There should be no such device as the Presidential Pardon. Or, if they are to remain, they should be given during the first few months of a presidency, because only then would we begin to see those whom actually deserve a pardon receive one, rather than having them simply doled out as political favors given by exiting leaders. I'm sure Clinton's pardon of Mark Rich would have very likely impacted his polling numbers during his reelection.

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Begging Bush's Pardon

posted at 11/17/2008 2:59 PM EST

bluffer

First post: 11/17/2008
Last post: 11/17/2008
Total posts: 2

Very simply, the President will grant a Full and Unconditional (a.k.a. Complete) Presidential Pardon to Lewis A. "Scooter" Libby. Reason: Because Mr. Libby has been formally disbarred, he thus lost his law license. Although I believe the President granted him a (in a manner of speaking) "partial" Pardon so as to exempt Mr. Libby from serving time in jail, a Full Pardon would enable him to get his law license back. While the resultant hue and cry might indeed be loud and just a bit "harsh," the White House nevertheless would have at the ready a marvelously easy, two-word defense of it: "Marc Rich."

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All or Nothing

posted at 11/17/2008 3:03 PM EST

dbitt

First post: 5/25/2007
Last post: 7/29/2009
Total posts: 27

I suspect that we'll either see an EXTREMELY long list of pardons issued or a very short one.
Bush has been miserly about issuing pardons. I also suspect that he feels there is no political gain in going after the miscreants after the fact-- it would give the Republicans an issue to beat the Administration with (wrongly, IMHO)-- and that nobody in his Administration was in the wrong anyway.
Hard to see how this plays out, but there is this: a pardon is a formal acknowledgement that THERE WAS CRIMINAL ACTIVITY THAT NEEDS TO BE EXCUSED. I don't know if Bush wants to put that final stink on his legacy.

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Pardon List

posted at 11/17/2008 3:04 PM EST

heynow63

First post: 11/17/2008
Last post: 12/15/2008
Total posts: 2

Here we go, in no particular order:

Libby

Gonzalez

The guy that ripped off Target

Cheney

Addington

DeLay

Stevens

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Is "Preemptive Pardon" an Oxymoron?

posted at 11/17/2008 3:05 PM EST

MillPond2

First post: 11/12/2008
Last post: 12/1/2009
Total posts: 35

Don't you have to be convicted of an offense before you can be pardoned? No one other than Scooter Libby fits the conventional parameters. The president does not have the time left in office to pardon anyone else associated with alleged abuses under his administration if this is indeed the case. So how would a blanket pardon work?

Assuming that I'm mistaken, a preemptive pardon could result in the outing of certain individuals who might otherwise have remained out of the spotlight. If I were in this situation, how would I hedge my bet? Hope that I would not be the target of an indictment under the Obama administration, or ask for dispensation from President Bush and risk being the subject of public (i.e. media) scrutiny?

It's possible that blanket pardons could trigger a Democratically controlled congress to institute investigations, and compel testimony from the very people who have been preemptively pardoned, since they would be immune from prosecution and have one less reason not to testify. The situation could get very dicey and embarrassing for high officials in the soon-to-be former Bush administration.

Maybe that is the ultimate answer to the question posed - can Bush pardon himself?

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Re: Pardon all the Secret Agencies

posted at 11/17/2008 3:17 PM EST

m_mcmahon

First post: 11/12/2008
Last post: 4/24/2009
Total posts: 32

Replying to:

I think the worst thing Ford did was pardon Nixon. Why? Because I believe that pardon gave all subsequent occupants of the White House the notion that in the long run they will be able to do things outside the law and eventually get a pardon. It took the fear of punishment out of wrong doing. And in the current case I think pardons or not these things need to be investigated and exposed to the air, otherwise the next president with a nefarious agenda will sense an ability to put forth their agenda with impunity.

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Executive privilege

posted at 11/17/2008 3:18 PM EST

duffman01

First post: 11/17/2008
Last post: 11/17/2008
Total posts: 1

Could he instead choose to stonewall any investigation with assertion of executive privilege subsequent to holding office? I know that Nixon tried (while in office) but couldn't get away with it. I'm not convinced, however, that Bush wouldn't take some sort of similar approach. It is a safe bet the Democrats would not hold low level CIA employees/others responsible for actions that were taken at the direction of himself, Cheney and other members of his cabinet.

Additionally, if Libby didn't ask for a pardon, I think there's a very small chance Bush grant that as well.

Of course, I thought more people would've demanded that Bush be impeached after commuting Libby's original sentence, so what do I know.

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Pardon Projection

posted at 11/17/2008 3:21 PM EST

corrycorry2005

First post: 11/17/2008
Last post: 11/17/2008
Total posts: 1

Bush prides himself on doing whatever anyone says he "can't," whether its running for President or surging in Iraq. The more "everybody" says pardoning Rove, Gonzalez et al is an "admission of guilt" that is "unprecedented," the more likely Bush is to do it.

Since the Justice Dept is at the center of both torture and political malfeasance, my prediction is that he'll pardon Rove, Gonzalez and a few others for the US Attorney Scandal, and that all the pardoned will then use that as grounds to kick the can down the road for any future prosecutions.

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Re: Begging Bush's Pardon

posted at 11/17/2008 3:21 PM EST

m_mcmahon

First post: 11/12/2008
Last post: 4/24/2009
Total posts: 32

Replying to:

While the resultant hue and cry might indeed be loud and just a bit "harsh," the White House nevertheless would have at the ready a marvelously easy, two-word defense of it: "Marc Rich."
Posted by bluffer

Libby had his sentence commuted, no pardon partial or otherwise has been granted...yet. As to the rest of your post are you saying two wrongs make a right? Or is that simply a way to make the argument to pardon someone who compromises national security and subverts our justice system by pointing out that someone who was a tax evader is comparable? Ever think that Marc Rich was the payback for Nixon? Or for all the Iran Contra boys pardoned by Bush I?

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Question

posted at 11/17/2008 3:22 PM EST

frazerbear

First post: 11/17/2008
Last post: 11/17/2008
Total posts: 1

What's the next step. If someone is pardoned, can they be forced to testify? I assume that since they are immune from prosecution for the underlying offense, they cannot plead the 5th Amendment. So could pardons for those involved in torture end up bringing the facts to light? If so, maybe they are worth it.

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