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Should administration officials be prosecuted for torture?

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Should administration officials be prosecuted for torture?

posted at 10/4/2007 4:37 PM EDT

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Ken_Roth

First post: 6/12/2007
Last post: 7/10/2009
Total posts: 65

In early 2005, the Department of Justice reportedly issued a memo authorizing the CIA to subject terror suspects to waterboarding and prolonged exposure to frigid temperatures (http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/11/21/usdom12071.htm) . Then, as Congress was about to pass a law barring cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment of detainees (http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/12/16/usdom12311.htm) , the Justice Department, with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales’s approval, reportedly issued another memo stating that none of the CIA’s interrogation methods would be in violation of this legislation. While these memos appear to have been designed to give legal cover for interrogators to commit abuses, defenders of the policy argue that these techniques are necessary in order to elicit information from terrorist suspects about possible future attacks. Should Gonzales and other Bush administration officials be investigated (http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/10/04/usdom17021.htm) for being part of a criminal enterprise to commit torture?

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Re: Should administration officials be prosecuted for torture?

posted at 10/5/2007 11:35 AM EDT

Chaotician

First post: 6/26/2007
Last post: 11/17/2009
Total posts: 115

Is there some reason not to prosecute? These are admitted torturers and even the Bushies have asserted that these were torture techniques that were not authorized!! Now we find that Cheney and his "boss" have a "SECRET" memorandom and Gonzales torture authorizations. If they are consistent with the law, why would they be secret??

Every one involved in theis heinious activity needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of all laws! Especially those who condoned and authorized such dispicable acts. I'd like to see Cheney and Bush charged with high treason, convicted, and then oublically hung!

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American exceptionalism has limits

posted at 10/5/2007 1:21 PM EDT

cvm1

First post: 10/3/2007
Last post: 9/2/2008
Total posts: 5

It's torture when it's done to Americans. It's torture when it's done by Americans. It should absolutely be investigated. But it won't be.

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Human Rights

posted at 10/5/2007 1:25 PM EDT

wellworn444

First post: 10/5/2007
Last post: 10/5/2007
Total posts: 1

President Bush has saved and protected more individuals human rights in the past 5 years than has any president since Franklin Roosevelt.

Everyone that cares about human rights should send President Bush a thank card for freeing over 30MM people from oppression and for saving the world from the death of all human rights that would have come about if the Islamists had not been put back on their heels by the President's determination and honor and moral courage.

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It's time to stop the insanity

posted at 10/5/2007 1:29 PM EDT

stephenrhymer

First post: 10/5/2007
Last post: 11/14/2009
Total posts: 37

It is time for the Justice Department and Congress to stop being the gutless bunch of weasels they are, stand up for what's right and prosecture everyone in the Bush Administration who condoned, approved of or participated in torture.

What happened to the Constitution? What happened to the rule of law?

Bush and his cohorts have acted outside the law for too long. It's time to bring them to justice.

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Wellword 44 must be living in some parallel universe

posted at 10/5/2007 1:32 PM EDT

stephenrhymer

First post: 10/5/2007
Last post: 11/14/2009
Total posts: 37

Bush has only subverted the Constiution, broken numerous laws (national and Internationa) and put Americans under his brand of 1984 rule. He's done nothing to free anyone anyplace. If anythign, Bush is directly responsible for making the world a more dangerous place?

Freedom giver? Hardly. Rights abuser is a more apt title.

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Partisan politcs

posted at 10/5/2007 1:43 PM EDT

chritipurr

First post: 9/20/2007
Last post: 5/14/2009
Total posts: 5

All I ever hear anymore is 'Bush is hero' or 'Bush is a crook'. The most important point is that, if he is in compliance with the law, then, as so many people say when asked about government surveillance, there is nothing to hide. Show the world these docs, that they are indeed legit, and be done with it and earn yourself some respect and trust. 'Cause right now, Bush is in short supply of both.

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War Crimes Tribunal for the lot of them

posted at 10/5/2007 1:44 PM EDT

seditiouspunkster

First post: 10/5/2007
Last post: 10/5/2007
Total posts: 3

I truly hope that the next administration breaks with what this administration has done and begins to restore America's reputation worldwide.

Step 1: Reveal the memos, etc. If they expose justifications for torture, go to Step 2.

Step 2: Arrest anyone in the administration who had a hand in crafting or defending the justifications, including Bush, Cheney, Gonzo, Addington, Yoo, et al., go to Step 3.

Step3: Ship them all off to the Hague for War Crimes Trials.

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Re: Should administration officials be prosecuted for torture?

posted at 10/5/2007 1:49 PM EDT

dilluminati

First post: 9/7/2007
Last post: 10/5/2007
Total posts: 3

I have a feeling that years from now that they will be. I think that no matter how much you spin this, there comes a time when societies repudiate these acts. Even Cambodia recently started war crimes tribunals in the last year. Chile and South Africa are also recent countries that examined their pasts.

But I feel that the POTUS leaves the intelligence professional on a slippery slope and that small individuals will get prosecuted.

If I'm correct I think that it has begun:

On November 10, 2006 Time magazine reported that civil rights activists were intending to file legal documents with a German prosecutor with the hope that charges would be brought against senior U.S. political and military officials. The legal documents will detail the alleged roles of the officials in abuses committed at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and at the U.S. detention facility at Guantánamo Bay. Among those including Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez, and former CIA Director George Tenet. According to the article lawyers claim that Karpinski will be testifying on behalf of the plaintiffs. With the legal filings a written statement will be included from Karpinski saying, "It was clear the knowledge and responsibility for what happened at Abu Ghraib goes all the way to the top of the chain of command to the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld." The U.S. Department of Defense has not replied, because the documents have not been filed yet. On November 14, 2006 the Attorneys with the Center for Constitutional Rights had officially filed a war crimes lawsuit in Germany against outgoing Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and other high-ranking U.S. officials, for their role in the torture of prisoners in Iraq and Guantanamo. Janis Karpinski confirmed that she will be testifying.[8][9]

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Umm... Yeah!

posted at 10/5/2007 1:56 PM EDT

catuskoti

First post: 9/3/2007
Last post: 5/14/2009
Total posts: 67

Yes! And the presidential candidate I vote for will explicitly say so.

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Re: Human Rights

posted at 10/5/2007 1:58 PM EDT

catuskoti

First post: 9/3/2007
Last post: 5/14/2009
Total posts: 67

Replying to:

I lOVE your sarcasm! :-)

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re: Should administration officials be prosecuted for torture?

posted at 10/5/2007 1:58 PM EDT

pKrishna43

First post: 8/29/2007
Last post: 9/2/2009
Total posts: 43

Yes. Why not?

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Of course they should be

posted at 10/5/2007 2:00 PM EDT

raycrossley

First post: 9/11/2007
Last post: 12/22/2008
Total posts: 34

How sad that this should be a matter of debate. Why not investigate where it appears crimes may have been committed by high officials? To avoid damaging America's reputation? A bit late for that...
Yes, the matter should be thoroughly investigated, and if all the truth has not come out by January of 2009, the investigation should continue. The Bush administration have worked like devils to undermine this country, and only a complete revelation of all the corruption can save us.

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Should we investigate?

posted at 10/5/2007 2:06 PM EDT

farkdawg

First post: 10/5/2007
Last post: 7/31/2009
Total posts: 18

ARE WE A NATION OF LAWS? I hope this question by the Post is rhetorical. Should we investigate the appearance of serious crimes? I would hope that the answer would always be a resounding, "ABSO-FREAKING-LUTELY!"

I think that a discussion question on whether or not to enforce our Constitution against a leader who has draped himself in the flag is the interesting part. Bush has insulated himself by deflecting criticisms by always saying that "after 9-11" everything changed or by making criticisms of his administration as somehow a criticism of the troops. I find his methodologies cowardly. Using people's well-intentioned sense of patriotism and our desire to not take things out on the troops allows Bush to push these abhorrent and illegal practices. He uses people's best intentions to do the worst things.

I would argue that the more we change about ourselves in the reaction to 9-11 the more they win. By allowing our leaders to delve into the darkness of suspending rights and liberties, torturing, etc., we are essentially saying that something was wrong with us before 9-11 and now we're going to change, in the worst ways, to address the situation. I would argue that there was something wrong with the terrorists.

These laws and liberties we enjoy are most important in times of crises. Letting our leaders trample on them is our fault. Have you written your representative this week?

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They Are Above the Law and Politics

posted at 10/5/2007 2:06 PM EDT

imright

First post: 10/5/2007
Last post: 10/22/2007
Total posts: 2

An argument can be made that
they are above the law and political fray.
They got the war they wanted
with all every appropriation.
They got important democrats to agree,
Clinton, Kerry, Biden, etc.
Nothing will be done about the torture memo.
de facto: there are no contraints. They can
do what they want.

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Re: Should administration officials be prosecuted for torture?

posted at 10/5/2007 2:08 PM EDT

jheath53

First post: 8/29/2007
Last post: 5/29/2009
Total posts: 4085

Replying to:

Should Gonzales and other Bush administration officials be investigated (http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/10/04/usdom17021.htm) for being part of a criminal enterprise to commit torture? Posted by Ken_Roth

Should they be investigated? Absolutely. What we have witnessed for the last 7 years of this misbegotten cabal is a steady assault on the Bill of rights, not only in the handling of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and various SECRET prisons throughout the world, but this same administration claims the authority to arrest anyone anywhere, declare the person an "enemy combatant" and hold that person indefinitely without access to the legal system. They have done everything possible to erase the checks and balances that protect us from an overreaching government.

And, has any of it made us any safer? NO! If anything, we're as vulnerable today as we were in 2001 to a terrorist attack. The only improvement is the added vigilance we have of having been attacked already. None of the intelligence gathered by these thugs has gained us any ground in fighting Al Qaeda, and in fact, Al Qaeda is almost back to the strength levels they had before we invaded Afghanistan. We should hold these gangsters accountable. When the Democrats turn the Republicans out next year, we need to set up a special investigation unit to uncover all the crimes committed by Bush and his cronies.

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News Alert

posted at 10/5/2007 2:18 PM EDT

RetCombatVet

First post: 9/27/2007
Last post: 6/21/2008
Total posts: 23

This is perhaps the most senseless question ever. It is paramount to, should Charlie Manson be given a church and pardon. Get real.

Having said this, for anyone who cares to look Bush has already signed a secret sining statement absolving all involved from prosecution allowing him to withold any and all documents he wishes from Congress.

"http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/03/20060309-8.html"

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addendum

posted at 10/5/2007 2:23 PM EDT

RetCombatVet

First post: 9/27/2007
Last post: 6/21/2008
Total posts: 23

The posted link will not go to the statement so here it is.

President's Statement on H.R. 199, the "USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005"

RSS Feed White House News

Today, I have signed into law H.R. 3199, the "USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005," and then S. 2271, the "USA PATRIOT Act Additional Reauthorizing Amendments Act of 2006." The bills will help us continue to fight terrorism effectively and to combat the use of the illegal drug methamphetamine that is ruining too many lives.

The executive branch shall construe the provisions of H.R. 3199 that call for furnishing information to entities outside the executive branch, such as sections 106A and 119, in a manner consistent with the President's constitutional authority to supervise the unitary executive branch and to withhold information the disclosure of which could impair foreign relations, national security, the deliberative processes of the Executive, or the performance of the Executive's constitutional duties.

The executive branch shall construe section 756(e)(2) of H.R. 3199, which calls for an executive branch official to submit to the Congress recommendations for legislative action, in a manner consistent with the President's constitutional authority to supervise the unitary executive branch and to recommend for the consideration of the Congress such measures as he judges necessary and expedient.

GEORGE W. BUSH

THE WHITE HOUSE,

March 9, 2006.

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Caesar should burn. After a court rules of course.

posted at 10/5/2007 2:28 PM EDT

galfax

First post: 10/5/2007
Last post: 11/28/2007
Total posts: 2

The biggest damage Bush has done is to try and publicly declare that the constitution is optional for presidents.

Good lord even nixon wasn't that egotistical and brazen.

Yes He broke US laws. He broke International laws and he broke treaties that had been in effect for 50 years.

And to date we have yet to see anything resembling the progress promised. This president has done nothing but ask for more money to produce the results promised last year. I don't think he's left the 90's yet. He'd have fit right into one of the DOTCOM's that went under.

And for the person that tried to equate him to FDR. FDR worked within the constitution and when he wanted extra powers he actually went to congress and "gasp" asked for them. But W's too damn "special" to be bothered to actually follow the constitution.

Even here in texas we can smell that fishy smell.

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They should all be in prison

posted at 10/5/2007 2:32 PM EDT

gimmesometruth

First post: 10/3/2007
Last post: 10/5/2007
Total posts: 3

Bush, Gonzales, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rova, Rice, and the rest should be investigated for this and many other issues where they have obviously and blatantly broken the law. They should also stand trial at a war crimes tribunal. They are criminal thugs and should be prosecuted as such.

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