James Rupert

Washington Post correspondent Jim Rupert joined us Tuesday, June 1 to discuss Nigeria's transition to a civilian government.

Although the transition has not been entirely smooth, the democratic process appears to be working better in Nigeria than in other countries in the region such as Sierra Leone and Togo.

Read the transcript below.

Arlington, VA: Jim, tell us what it's like to be in Nigeria now that civilian rule was restored Saturday.

James Rupert: It's an exciting time to be in Nigeria mostly because of the excitement that I feel in Nigerians themselves. At the inauguration Saturday of President Obasanjo, it was clear that Nigerians do not expect immediate miracles from this government. But their ability to elect people to govern them after so many years of military rule has given them a hope I have not sensed here in the time I have been visiting. One of the most remarkable points was made to me the other day by a lawyer from Lagos: that 60 percent of Nigerians cannot remember any previous government except those run by soldiers.

No. Virginia: I understand that President Obasanjo is a former military leader. Why does he now believe in civilian government?

James Rupert: Obasanjo became Nigeria's military ruler involuntarily in 1976, after his superior officer was assassinated. Within three years, he supervised the drafting of a constitution and the holding of reasonably fair elections and handed power to a civilian government. He immediately retired from the Army to the role of an elder statesman. When other generals seized power back in 1984, Obasanjo criticized the return of military rule -- to the point where the dictator, General Sani Abacha, imprisoned Obasanjo in 1995. So Obasanjo's belief in civilian rule is not a recent conversion.

Arlington, VA: Could you step back for a minute and give us a brief history of Nigerian politics ... and the years of military rule that preceded?

James Rupert: Nigeria is an artificial invention of British soldiers, colonialists, and merchants (largely of palm oil) who in the last century began welding together more than 200 distinct ethnic groups, kingdoms, emirates, and agrarian societies into a single entity. In 1960, this conglomeration of people -- still largely foreign to each other -- were declared an independent state. Control passed to tiny handfuls of men atop the three largest groups -- Yorubas, Ibos, and especially the Hausa-speakers of the North. Since then, much of Nigerian politics has been the struggle to accommodate the different interests of many groups within this artificial state. For 30 out of the 40 years of independence, Nigerians have been ruled by the military, which of course is no ideal instrument for negotiating that accommodation.

Dallas, TX: Can President Olusegun Obasanjo bring to justice those criminals in uniform-Army, Police, Navy and rich gangsters- who maimed and killed my fellow Nigerians because nobody could speak on their behalf. It doesn't have to be now.Can he restore civility in the country so that the downtrodden and less powerful can live in the country of their birth- NIGERIA.
Vincent Chukwu.

James Rupert: In every country where the military has voluntarily given up power -- Pakistan, Argentina, Chile and others -- the senior officers have assured themselves of some protection against prosecution. Under this new government, the soldiers will have some degree of protection because of the presence of many retired officers in the broad, ruling party. It would be dangerous for Obasanjo to attempt a quick, broad policy of prosecuting soldiers for the corruption or brutality of past years. Of course, many Nigerians, especially Southerners who felt repressed by the northern-dominated army, want to see quick prosecutions. But if they can happen, it will require first that Obasanjo strengthen and solidify civilian rule. That probably will take years.

Ft. Belvoir, VA: Hi Jim,

I appreciate the fact that the Post has been paying more attention lately to Sub Saharan Africa, traditionally the most ignored -almost forgotten, perhaps- area of the Third World. My question is this: what do you see as the prospects both politically and economically for Liberia for the next 5 years? Is it destined to self destruct again or is there a chance that perhaps a more democratic government could emerge and receive much needed assistance from the U.S. -which after all was instrumental in establishing this country in the first place-.

James Rupert: Thanks. We are trying to give this region the attention it deserves, but I think none of the Western press is quite yet doing the full job.

On Liberia, the country's future will be largely determined by the actions of President Charles Taylor, which have proven somewhat erratic since he took office. At times, Taylor consults Liberians from beyond his own faction and seems to be trying to convert himself from a militia warlord into a national leader. But his old warrior's fears and his authoritarian tendencies remain very powerful. He is slowly building a secretive security establishment -- headed partly by his son -- that is inimical to evolving a Liberian democracy. Liberia's often impressive civilian political, business and church leaders remain at the margins of power, and while I try to be hopeful, I feel increasingly fearful for the future of the current democratic experiment.

washingtonpost.com: We're approximately half-way through our discussion with Post correspondent James Rupert. Please continue submitting your questions using the hyperlink below.

Arlington, VA: Jim, the good news of democratization is in Nigeria, but isn't there trouble in nearby Togo and Sierra Leone?

James Rupert: Yeah, sure. One reason why Nigeria's good news is so important is that, as the giant of West Africa, it may have a beneficial effect on its troubled neighbors. Togo's president Gnassingbe Eyadema remains in power because he stole last year's presidential election, and Amnesty International has just issued a disturbing new report on human rights there.

Sierra Leone is rent by a war as brutal and intractable in its way as that of Kosovo. Of course, since the cultural (including racial) distance between Africa and the West is greater, all problems here get less attention back there than do those of the Balkans -- a point that Africans do not miss.

Yakima, WA: I have read that Shell Oil company has a large role in Nigerian politics. What role will it play in the new government?

James Rupert: Shell is the Nigerian government's biggest partner in pumping out the crude oil that pays for 80 percent of the state budget here. That is its biggest political role. Like the other oil companies here -- Texaco, Chevron, and others -- Shell has had to square the circle by working as the business partner of a brutal, corrupt military government, while also claiming to be operating in the interests of the people in the Niger River delta, where the oil is located. The oil companies are deeply relieved to have a civilian partner, and hope to be able to work with this new government to reduce the violent anger of impoverished delta residents who have gotten poorer as oil is pumped from -- and occasionally spilled into -- their farmlands and fishing grounds.

Mt. Rainier MD : Recent articles in the Post indicate that the generals did one last bleeding of the Nigerian treasury before letting go. How will the country cope with this, and will the generals be punished -can they be-?

James Rupert: Yes, the generals seem to have allocated themselves lots of presents just before leaving office. But we still don't know how much of that money -- for apparently crooked government contracts -- has been already paid out of the Treasury. President Obasanjo's accountants are probably in the Central Bank vaults checking on that right now. But Obasanjo has canceled those contracts and I'm writing a story on that which should be in the paper soon.

Washington, D.C. : James,

Does the leader Obasanjo have the ability of say, a Mandela, to unite the country? He does have a military background. Is this a plus in terms of the transition?

James Rupert: Obasanjo seems almost uniquely qualified to bridge the rifts of Nigeria. He is a Yoruba from the South, who has broad support in the North and within the military because of his past military rule in 1976-79. (When a Northern candidate won the presidential election in '79, Obasanjo let him take office.) Obasanjo is a down-to-earth guy who is a lot smarter and more intellectual than he looks or admits. He is not so telegenic and eloquent as Mandela, so he won't become such a star to Westerners, but it is difficult to see who might offer a better hope for Nigeria right now.

Alexandria, VA: Do you think Nigeria will hold as one nation, or do you ever imagine that in time the nation may divide into several nations?

James Rupert: Nigeria has great problems with unity, but it likely would have greater problems in breaking up, as the 1967-70 civil war -- over the secession of southeastern Nigeria (as the state of Biafra) showed. I don't foresee any break-up here, but there is still room for lots of instability and violence.

Arlington, VA: Sadly enough, no station has run the tape of the ceremony in any detail so that we have only heard tidbits of the speeches delivered on the 29th. What according to Western journalists, was the demeanor of the new president? What, could people tell from his speech, did he plan to do, specific things he laid out if any, as soon as he begins his term? And how long is his term?

James Rupert: Thanks for this and all these questions. Sorry I've been a little slow with responses . . . the technical connection to Abuja, Nigeria is a little slow.

Obasanjo was clearly pleased at his inauguration, but also deadly serious about changing what he sees as the disaster of military rule. He made clear that his top priorities are battling the corruption that now cripples the state and the economy, and doing all possible to help poor Nigerians who lack the basics. He will have a tough battle on both counts. More on this in the coming days in the newspaper.

Thanks again. It's great to know how many people are following these issues out there.

washingtonpost.com: Well, that's all the time we have for now. Thanks to everyone who participated and thanks to James Rupert.

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