Bob Levey Craig Cola/washingtonpost.com

"Levey Live" appears each Tuesday at noon, EST. Your host is Washington Post columnist Bob Levey. This hour is your chance to talk directly to key Washington Post reporters and editors, local officials and people in the news.

Laurent Ross

D.C. Tuition Assistance Grant Program is an unknown asset for District residents who are planning to attend college in the fall. In November 1999, Congress agreed to give the city $17 million to assist D.C. residents who are enrolled in either local private colleges or public colleges throughout the United States. Are you eligible for funding? How much can a resident hope to receive?

Ask Laurent Ross, the Director of the D.C. Tuition Assistance Grant Program. Ross was appointed Director by Mayor Anthony Williams in March of this year. Prior to his position with the District government, Ross was a project manager with PEC Solutions, an information technology firm in Fairfax, Virginia.

Below is today's transcript.

Washington, DC: Hi there! What a coincidence - this discussion is happening right when I need it to.

I have 2 questions - are any of these funds available for graduate studies? How about graduate studies overseas?

Thank you!

Laurent Ross: Sorry, this program is only for undergraduates.

Washington, DC: Dear Mr. Ross,

Thank you for answering our questions. Can you please clear up a big question I have? I have heard conflicting information about whether this program provides assistance for public universities throughout the U.S., or just Maryland and Virginia. Which is it?

Also, do you have any idea how long the program will be in effect? We live in D.C., but the kids are still small. Thanks again.

Laurent Ross: While originally designed for just public universities in MD and VA, the Mayor in May expanded the program to cover public universities throughout the country.

Bob Levey: I'm told that a lot of the money in your honeypot is going begging. Is this true? if so, why is it true? Is there some deep-seated resistance to college on the part of D.C. students?

Laurent Ross: Actually, applications are coming in fast and furious. We are now getting close to 90 applications per day.

One problem is that the law cuts off the program at 1998, that is, you have to have graduated since 1998 to get the money. This means, essentially, that all seniors in college are ineligible for the program. The Mayor and Congresswoman Norton are proposing that the cutoff be move back to 1997, and thus include seniors, 1/4 of our students.

Washington DC: It would appear that this tuition assistance is only available to recent High School graduates already enrolled or planning to attend College in the near future. Can you tell me what, if any, tuition assistance is provided for an individual who already has an undergraduate degree, and is intent on attending Graduate School?

Laurent Ross: The Tuition Assistance program is only for people getting their 1st undergraduate degree that have just graduated from H.S. in the last 3 years. Federal aid is available for other courses of study. Also, talk to your financial aid officer for all the possible scholarships and loans you may be eligible for.

Washington, DC: Thank you for taking our questions.

Is there an age limit? Are there any limits? Where can we find the actual wording of the legislation? Is there a website by chance?

Laurent Ross: Yes, we have a Web site:

www.tuitiongrant.washingtondc.gov

However, the law is not on there.

Now to your substantive questions. Technically, there is no age limit, but realistically, the law specifies that you must have graduate since 1998 to be eligible. So yes, a 60-year who just gets his/her GED would be eligible, but we don't expect large numbers of this type of student.

Monetary limits are $10,000 per year/$50,000 lifetime for the public school grant, $2500 per year/ $12500 lifetime for the private school grant (which applies to private colleges in the D.C. metro area only).

Bob Levey: Can you foresee the day when the 50 states will offer similar programs to their citizens? After all, the District of Columbia is not the only place where kids from relatively poor families would like to go to a distant college.

Laurent Ross: Probably not. Congress passed this law for us.

Bob Levey: Will this program ever extend to private colleges (hey, I can dream....)?

Laurent Ross: The program already covers private colleges in the D.C. metro area, but extension to other privates is not likely. There is no mechanism in the law that allows the Mayor to expand the private portion like he did the public portion.

Washington, DC: I have been a resident of DC for three years. I finished my undergrad degree last summer, paid for by my out-of-state parents. Am I elgible for funds for graduate work? What are the time constraints I have? Thanks...

Laurent Ross: This grant doesn't apply to graduate school. I would strongly recommend that you talk to your financial aid officer at the school you plan to do graduate work at. But, stay in D.C. and we'll give your kids a grant!!

Bob Levey: What if a student already gets a partial scholarship from an out-of-state public college? Can your money be used to supplement that?

Laurent Ross: Our grant is for tuition payments only. If a student already gets a partial scholarship, hopefully the student can get as much of that money switched to room, board, and expense money so that they can maximize the D.C. grant and thus, maxize their overall grant. Otherwise, we cannot supplant already existing aid.

Bob Levey: There are finaglers everywhere, and whenever there are big bucks at stake, the finaglers tend to surface. Specifically: How do you prevent people from moving into D.C. for five minutes, then applying for this money? Or how do you prevent a Maryland resident from claiming that he lives with his Grandma in Northeast DC in order to qualify for this money?

Laurent Ross: We require proof of domicile or residency of all applicants. We require at least one long-term proof and 2 short-term, or you're here now, type of proofs.

Bob Levey: When it began, this program applied only to public colleges located in Maryland and Virginia. Take us through the politics that widened the field to all 50 states. Difficult? Partisan?

Laurent Ross: Actually the politics were neither difficult nor partisan. We had ready agreement from the Republican committee chairs. The Mayor met all the criteria in the law to exand, namely that 1. we not overspend the budget by expanding. 2. we demonstrate that D.C. students were having difficulty getting in to MD and VA schools, and 3. we consulted with both submittee chairs

Bob Levey: How do you answer those who say this program is unfair to the middle-class D.C. residents who struggle and scrimp and save to send their kids to college?

Laurent Ross: Actually, this is great program for middle-class DC residents. There's no means test!! We don't look at your income at all!! The only thing you need to be eligible for this program is to live in DC.

Washington, DC: Does this apply to only full-time students?
Did you have to graduate from the DC-area, or just be a resident at the time of enrollment?

Thanks.

Laurent Ross: This program is for any one attending at least 1/2 time. If you go less than 1/2 time you wont get a grant. Naturally, you're grant will be proportional to the amount of time you go to school.
No, you don't have to be from DC. But, you have to have lived in DC for at least 1 year before beginning your first year in college.

Bob Levey: As of May 14, your program had received only 550 applications. Yet officials have estimated that there are 3,450 eligible students. Sounds like a question of publicity to me. Have you generated any? Enough?

Laurent Ross: Things were slow at first, but now the applications are rolling in! We're getting over 90 apps per day! We expect to meet our original target soon and will set new, higher targets for this summer.

We never have enough publicity. That's why I'm grateful for you Bob, giving me this oppotunity to reach more DC residents.

Bob Levey: Along the same lines as the question I just asked.....
A D.C. family scrimps and saves and sees a child go off to a big-name private college. This family doesn't qualify for a cent of the money you distribute. Doesn't your program therefore steer kids toward less-excellent public colleges simply because they'd be cheaper to attend?

Laurent Ross: The point of the program was to allow DC residents to have the same types of choices in terms of low-cost schools that the residents of all other 50 states have. Kids still may choose to go to private schools, they just now have more than a single public school option. In my book, that makes them much better off.

By the way, public institutions are some of our best colleges. I just need to mention Berkely, UVA, Wisconsin, to make my point.

Washington, DC: What are the limits as to the students' or parents' income in order to qualify for this program?

Laurent Ross: There are absolutely no limits on income whatsoever. You can be as poor or as rich as you want and still qualify for the program if you live in DC.

Bob Levey: Let's say I'm a 38-year-old mother of three who graduated from high school 20 years ago and now has the time to go to college. Does your program cover me?

Laurent Ross: No. But if you had been a 38-year old mother who just got her GED you would qualify. We can take only those people who have graduated since 1998 and are less than 3 years out from HS or their GED.

Bob Levey: Do you think public colleges will be less likely to give need-based scholarships to D.C. applicants, because they know that your program exists?

Laurent Ross: They shouldn't be, because the law specifically states that this money can't supplant existing grants. Usually, however, public schools don't give much money out in institutional grants unless the kid has some sort of special talent the school wants like playing the cello... or football.

Capitol Hill: I live in DC, but this program still strikes me as incredibly unfair. Why should DC residents get to go to any state school nationwide at in-state rates? There are other states (such as HI, WY) that have few in-state choices, and they don't have the same chance. Is this an attempt to make up for no representation in Congress?

Laurent Ross: Actually HI has a variety of state institutions. However your point is well taken about WY. What happens there is that WY has reciprical agreements with other states to educate their students at a low price.

But up until now, DC students had only 1 choice. This expands their playing field, and also gives incentives for people to move into DC ... and stay in DC.

DC Homeboy: If you're in prison and studying college courses, can you get one of these grants? Or do you have to be at a college?

Laurent Ross: Unfortunately, you may not be incarcerated and get this grant, just as with most federal aid.

DC: I go to college in DC (I'll be a Sophmore next fall.) I didn't grow up in DC and go to HS here, but I've lived here for a year. Am I eligible?

Laurent Ross: You would be eligible if you are domiciled in DC. Generally, college students are considered to be domiciled with their parents. If your parents live here now, and you moved here 1 year before you began college, you'd qualify for the grant. Otherwise, you'd have to proove both that you, yourself lived here at least 1 year before you began your freshman year, and that you were financially independent of your parents.

Bob Levey: Another question about politics, if I may:
Congress never gives the District of Columbia a cent without whining about how poorly managed the city government is. Did that come up in connection with this program, too?

Laurent Ross: So far no. And, of course, part of my job is to prevent that from being possible.

Bob Levey: Will grants to individual students slide up as tuitions do? As you know, that can easily happen during the course of a four-year stay in college--especially these days. Does your program have some sort of "cost of living" clause?

Laurent Ross: No, but that would be a good thing we could ask for when we go to proposing technical amendments to the law.

DC: If you are already in college, but graduated after 98, can you still apply or have I lost out?

Laurent Ross: Graduating after 98 is good!!!! It's only the people who have graduate before 1998 that can't get the grant. Live in DC? Graduated since 1998? You're in!

Bob Levey: The stories that really kill me each June are those about Grandma Betty, age 89, who put off going to college because she had 49 children and 178 grandchildren. But now, it's another graduation, and there she is in a mortarboard and a huge smile. Does your program cover Betties? Or only Betties who graduated from high school since 1998 (if any)?

Laurent Ross: Only Betties who have graduated since 1998. So all current and future Betties, please plan to sign up!

Bob Levey: Do you have figures about how many D.C. residents went to college in Maryland and Virginia before this program went into effect, and how many go to college in those two states now? Seems to me that extending this program to the 50 states must be making it possible for kids to go farther and farther afield than ever, no?

Laurent Ross: Yes I have figures, just not off the top of my head.

Bob Levey: This program was instituted by the current mayor. What reaction was he been getting to it? Has it proved to be a political plus for him?

Laurent Ross: Absolutely. Citizens love this program. Interestingly enough, many of my suburban friends seem to like this program and think it makes a lot of sense, too.

Bob Levey: Where does all this money come from? Newly appropriated funds? Funds that were formerly used for something else?

Laurent Ross: These are new appropriated, Federal funds.

McLean, VA: One version of this in-state tuition plan limited DC residents to Maryland and Virginia colleges and universities -- which is more "instate" to them than opening it up to the 50 states. How can this be construed as other than creating a "super class" of DC residents? My northern Virginia son would have loved the opportunity to attend UNC, for example, but is barred by its prohibitive out of state cost. Seems like a gross imbalance for students who live in the 50 states!

Laurent Ross: Basically, Congress was just trying to give DC students more than the 1 choice they had to attend low-cost schools. By expanding to 50 states, we now give people like yourself and incentive to move back into the city.

Bob Levey: What does "living in D.C." mean for the purposes of this program? For example, aides on Capitol Hill do not have to get D.C. license plates, even though they live and work in D.C. Let's try it in reverse: could an aide on Capitol Hill call himself a D.C. resident for the purposes of this program, even if he kept his voter registration and license plates firmly rooted in Texas or Alaska?

Laurent Ross: The technical term is "domicile" which bascially means that you are (or were) physically resident and intend to keep DC as your permanent home. Its really a term of art, we look at your proof and try to determine whether you really want to make DC your home. For example, your Capitol Hill types might still be registered to vote in wherever, pay state taxes there, etc. We'd probably decide they're not domiciled here.

Bob Levey: Of course, this program wouldn't be nearly so necessary if UDC were anything to shout about. What about aid to D.C. residents who want to go there? What about money to repair the mess at UDC?

Laurent Ross: Actually, the same law that created the DC =Tuition Assistance Grant, also gives UDC $1.5 million per year in Federal money. The Mayor recognizes that most DC students go to UDC, and as such, fully supports the institution and wants to see it prosper.

Bob Levey: I'm guessing that Mayor Williams got behind this idea, at least in part, to stem the population slide in the District of Columbia. Correct?

Laurent Ross: There's really no reason why the Mayor would be against this idea. Naturally, it will attract people to DC (like that Northern Virginia mom) and keep folks with college-age kids here.

Bob Levey: Can you imagine this program being expanded to boarding schools? After all, some of our most promising teenagers attend high schools that are, to be charitable, in bad shape. What if they wanted to go to a Choate or a Pomfret?

Laurent Ross: I can imagine, but won't be betting my mortgage on it soon. ACtually, there are programs to help poor students attend private schools. But they are private programs.

Bob Levey: It isn't just UDC that'll suffer as a result of this program. So will all the local universities (many of which give special scholarship nods to DC residents). What do you say to a GW or a Georgetown when they complain (as they surely will) that your program chases the best DC students right straight outta town?

Laurent Ross: There's no reason for students to leave town. We give $2500 grants for students to attend those universities. Both are nationally competitve universities that attract many of their students from out of town.

Bob Levey: What about students who say, yeah, great, that tuition money is wonderful, but I still can't afford room, board or transportation? Do you steer them toward loans and scholarships?

Laurent Ross: Yes. We try to make sure, just as I did today with some of your questioners, that a full gamut of financial aid is still available for recipients of the DC Tution Assistance GRant. Talk to your financial aid officer. That's the 1st thing any student, rich or poor, should do.

Lexington Park, MD: Mr Ross, what if you graduated from a DC school in 1998, but after graduation your family moved out of the District into Maryland? Could you still get the grant? Also, this is a grant correct? It doesn't need to be paid back like a loan?

Laurent Ross: Sorry, Lexington. If you don't live in DC now, you don't qualify for the grant. However, if you haven't started college yet, and you move back to DC at least 1 year before you start, you qualify.

This is not a loan!! You never have to pay this back. It's a grant all the way.

Washington, DC: If you are a student, graduate of the Class of 99, living independtly of your parents, and domiciled here in DC, are you expected to keep residency here and attend an out-of-state college (farther than MD or VA)?
If so....how would you do that?

Laurent Ross: When attending a college out of state, you are still considered to be domiciled here in DC. I assume that you will continue to vote here, continue to pay taxes here, continue to have your driver's license here, etc. If you do, you're still domiciled here.

Bob Levey: Can a recipient of one of your "genius grants" hold a full-time job while at college out of state? A part-time job?

Laurent Ross: Hold any type of job you want. INcome is not a factor in this grant. The only test is DC residency.

Of course, if you flunk out of college, we won't continue to pay you. The money goes to the college for tuition anyway, never directly to the student.

Washington DC: As a scrimp-and-save middle class parent who is paying huge tuition bills at two of the ivies, I am absolutely thrilled to be sending my youngest child to U-Va this fall. A wonderful education at a bargain price! And the savings may enable us to help him out, later on, with graduate school -- something we will not be able to do for his siblings. Keep up the good work!

Laurent Ross: We'll try!

Bob Levey: To qualify for this program, colleges and universities have to sign up with the D.C. government first? Have any not done so?

Laurent Ross: Yes. Many have yet to sign up. We will be working with those colleges with the biggest enrollments of DC students and ensuring that they sign up before the Fall semester begins.

Bob Levey: Let's say I graduated from a DC public high school in 2000, I go into the military or the Job Corps for two years, then I get out in 2002 and want to make a withdrawal from the Laurent Ross National Bank to go to college. Eligible?

Laurent Ross: Yes. Service in the military or the Peace Corps, etc. is all excludable from the 3-year limit. Basically, you must begin to use the grant within 3 years of graduating from HS or getting a GED, but time in the military, Peace Corps, etc. is not included.

Bob Levey: You say that eligibility is pegged to a parent living in D.C. what if a child doesn't have any living parents? What if the parents are on drugs or are incarcerated?

Laurent Ross: If the child has a legal guardian, no problem...if they live in DC.

Otherwise, we will try to help those kids living with grandma to establish that fact.

Bob Levey: Any requirement that a DC high school student who goes to college under this program finish college in four years? Will the money tree give fruit for a fifth (or a sixth) year?

Laurent Ross: No requirement. However there is a lifetime limit of $50,000 for the public school grant, $12,500 for the private school grant.

Bob Levey: Even if a child from a DC public high school carries this money in his wallet when he applies to college, there's no getting around this fact: The child may not be well-prepared academically, and may not meet the minimum standards for admission. Do you think some colleges will bend their standards to admit borderline DC kids simply because those kids will be paying customers?

Laurent Ross: That may happen, but most public institutions want to help our children through college, not just take their money and run.

We will be examining graduation rates as the program progresses.

Bob Levey: Unhappy scenario: A child goes to college under this program, but can't hack it academically. He drops out, works for a couple of years, matures, gets his act together, wants to go back to the same college. Is he still eligible for aid under your program, even if he hasn't lived in DC during the years when he was taking a break?

Laurent Ross: I'm not sure. I'd have to check for this tricky question. Generally, I'd say that you have to keep living in DC the whole time, but I'll check with the lawyers to find out the answer to this question.

Bob Levey: $17 million is a lot of money to have for a program like this. Surely, some potshotter on the Hill is going to say (if he hasn't already) that the money could be better spent on filling potholes or incarcerating criminals. Your reply?

Laurent Ross: There's no better investment than our kids.

Bob Levey: A Washington Post story from May 14 said flat-out that this program is designed to attract middle-class families back to the city. Has that actually happened? Has anyone packed up the family mansion in Alexandria and rented a place in Adams-Morgan just so they could tap into your funds?

Laurent Ross: Not that I know of. But the real estate market sure is hot!

Bob Levey: Surely you're aware of the best-selling book about a Ballou H.S. student who went to Brown University on scholarship. I've read the book about him--incredibly heartwarming. But this child succeeded because of his ferocious inner drive, not just because of dollars. How can any government program implant that drive in our high school students?

Laurent Ross: A government program can't do that. What it can do is level the playing field. Why should the chaces for someone from Ballou's neigborhood be only 10% that they'll make it to college, and some one from Potomac 85%? We can provide a base so that more than just those with the fire in their belly can make it to college, just like in Potomac.

Bob Levey: Will you go into the D.C. public schools to inform students directly about this program?

Laurent Ross: We've been to every single DC public high school at least twice to talk about this program. We'll continue to talk to every senior every year about this program. We've also mailed applications to the home of every single senior.

Washington DC: $17 million at $10,000 a pop would pay for only 1,700 students each year. That's about the number of eligible graduates from Wilson High, alone. Do you worry that you will run out of money? In that case, what happens?

Laurent Ross: Most students won't use the entire $10,000. The grant pays for the difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition. Nationally, to the schools that DC students go to, that averages about $4,600. Remember, too, that the private school grant is onbly $2,500.

Bob Levey: Let's say I'm a foreign national who lives in D.C. Eligible?

Laurent Ross: Yes, as long as you are domiciled in DC.

Bob Levey: Do you anticipate private colleges lobbying the Hill to see if they can be included in your program?

Laurent Ross: Yes.

Bob Levey: Does your program apply to specialty colleges (cooking schools, arts and design schools), or just to classic four-year colleges?

Laurent Ross: It doesn't apply to just classic 4-year schools. Schools must be public and offer at least an AA degree.

Bob Levey: Many thanks to Laurent Ross, and best wishes for the success of his program. Next week's "Levey Live" appears on Monday, July 3 (not its usual Tuesday). I'll be live and in color from Kingston, R.I., at the Eastern Regional Soccer Championships run by the US Youth Soccer Association. My guest will be the coordinator of youth soccer on the East Coast, Bob Palmeiro. I'll try not to root for the Maryland under-13 state boys champs too hard (but it may be hard, since my son is on the team!). Talk atcha then....