By Craig Cola / washingtonpost.com What's Cooking Goes to Italy Hosted by Kim O'Donnel washingtonpost.com Staff Monday, March 20, 2000 Calling all foodies! For the next three weeks, Kim O'Donnel is cooking and logging on, LIVE from Italy. For the next three weeks, What's Cooking host Kim O'Donnel is cooking and logging on, LIVE from Italy. Enrolled at the Italian Culinary Institute for Foreigners in Costigliole d'Asti, Kim will share her far-flung adventures, both in and out of the classroom, until April 4. This is your chance to explore Italy's Piedmont region, from the artisans in the countryside to the big-city caffe culture in Milan and Turin. Check out these upcoming dates from Italy: March 16 - Italian Journal from Costigliole d'Asti March 20 - What's Cooking from Costigliole d'Asti March 23 - Italian Journal March 27 - What's Cooking March 30 - Italian Journal April 3 - What's Cooking April 6 - Copenhagen Journal In addition to the Italian Journal segments (March 16, 23, 30), Kim will host What's Cooking, her popular cooking discussion held on Mondays (March 20, 27; April 3, Noon EST). A graduate of Peter Kump's New York Cooking School, Kim spends much of her free time in front of a stove or with her nose in a cookbook. If you can't make the live event, you can always send Kim O'Donnel an e-mail or drop in on the What's Cooking message board. Plus, check out Kim's pre-Italy video interview. Below is today's transcript.

Kim O'Donnel: Buon giorno and good Monday to you from Costigliole d'Asti. After several fairly mild days, we got socked with a bit of a chill. It's sunny but definitely bundle up weather --but who's complaining...I am in Italia, after all. Since last time, I've learned about aceto (vinegar) --both balsamic and wine vinegar -- drank really good grappa, took a train to the Ligurian coast for the weekend, had foccacia, pesto, anchovies in this region, drank a local dessert wine called sciachiattrà (hope I'm spelling it correctly), had basil gelato(!) and learned even more Italian this afternoon in class. Let's get to your questions and see what's on your mind.

Washington, D.C.: hi there! hope you're enjoying Italia... Two quick questions for you -one cooking, one not-. Here goes:

1- a few chats ago you said you couldn't stand Emeril Lagasse. Just curious as to why... I'm not a huge fan either, but can't quite put my finger on it.

2- when you cook with chickpeas, do you rub off the weird cellulose "overcoat" thing that sits loosely on each bean? I started doing that awhile ago, and even though it takes forever and always makes me hesitate before started a recipe that uses the suckers. But when I cook the beans whole -like in that yummy dish you described a few weeks ago- the cellulose starts to build up in the pan and drives me nuts. Any suggestions?

Thanks, and did I mention I'm very jealous?

Kim O'Donnel: Hi ya,
Emeril may well be a very talented chef, but it's his style I can't stand. Watching him is like watching a game show host (Monty Hall comes to mind) and it drives me nuts. And really, his show is not about the seriousness of food. It's about entertainment. Which is fine, but not for me. Too much boom bam boom coming out one person's mouth.
Re:2) If you're cooking with canned chickpeas, the stuff just comes off. If you're cooking with dried, it's a more difficult process. Why does it drive you nuts? Esthetics? Talk to me. I never let the little things worry me, but maybe others in the group have something to say about this urgent matter...

dc: I cook with olive oil very frequently. Seeing as how you have some new-found olive oil knowledge, you might be able to send along some hints for selecting the best stuff from our American shelves. I don't mind spending more for a better product, but I don't want to be tricked by some fancy marketing either. . . So please send some olive oil tips our way, if you would.

Kim O'Donnel: The most interesting thing I've learned about olive oil in the last week is that the chef instructor here suggests having about 10 different kinds in your pantry to pair with all kinds of dishes. We in the States will have only one kind, and it's definitely opened my eyes...Now, as to whether I'll start stocking up on zillions of different kinds, I don't know, but I could see having a very delicate oil as well as something heartier...I've never been terribly selective when buying in the States, and now I'm sure I will be. By the way, if a bottle says first-press, remember that extra virgin oil is always only first press...the manufacturer is not doing anything special by "giving" you first press...it's the first and last with extra virgin..and yes, it wouldn't hurt to do some tasting in the comfort of your own kitchen. Invite some friends over...if you're interested in learning how to taste, please respond and I'll walk you through the steps..

Chevy Chase, MD: So, how was that basil gelato? Did you have it in a restaurant or gelateria?

Kim O'Donnel: It was weird but delicious. I had it with a scoop of lemon, so the pairing was really nice. It had hints of anise and mint as well...believe it or not, it really worked. found it in a gelateria (which are everywhere) in Monterosso, the little town I visited this weekend on the Ligurian coast...by the way, the basil in this area is considered very special and the reason, the locals say, that their pesto is the best and unparalleled. And it all has to do with the size of the leaves, they're smaller. Oh, and there are lemon trees everywhere in Cinque Terre area...and so you can find lemon liquor (limoncino), lemon candies, etc

Washington D.C.: What exactly is grappa? I have tried it once
in a local restaurant and I really didn't like it. I was expecting something more like wine (which I LOVE -- all kinds). I am willing to try again but I would like to know what to expect from different kinds. Thank you for your help and for all of the great information about Italy.
Heather

Kim O'Donnel: Grappa, from what I've learned, is a distilled spirit (like eau de vie) made from the remnants of grape pressing. I had one made from moscato d'asti grapes. I don't know what's available in the states, but the label I tried this past weekend at my pal Gino's Caffe Roma was called Sececco. It tasted like flowers. Nectar.

Alex. VA cook boy: Ciao Kim-

Are you drinking the most wonderful wine?
Quick question- Is rabe by nature bitter, or is there a way to cook it to mitigate the bitterness? Salute!

Kim O'Donnel: Buon Giorno cook boy! I am drinking wonderful wine, and as I mentioned in my discussion last Thursday, I don't think I'll ever think about wine the same way again. I'm really learning because it's all here to taste, all very accessible and most pretty inexpensive for Americans. Rabe is indeed bitter by nature. I like wilting it with garlic, and a very nice olive oil would probably mellow it out considerably.

Reston, Virginia: Hello Kim!

I was flipping through washingtonpost.com and I came across your online chat. I was thrilled because I am going to Milan,Italy this Saturday for business. I am going for 2 weeks and will be visiting Rome on the weekend. I would like to bring back two great bottles of wine, some wonderful anchovies for my husband and some other interesting tokens that are very Italian......any recommendations? Also do you recommend any restaurants in Milan or Rome?

Have Fun!

Kim O'Donnel: How wonderful that you'll be here. I don't know what wines are available as you get closer to Rome, but with Milan's proximity to Piedmont region, you can look for grapes such as Barbera, Barberesco, Barolla, Dolcetto, Brunello...anchovies are something you'll find closer to Ligurian area (Genova, for example or some of the smaller coastal towns)...a chef from a restaurant close to Milan came this morning to do a four-course demo and I would recommend looking into his place --it's called Antica Osteria del Ponte in Cassinetta di Lugagnano and the chef is Ezio Santin. If I have a chance, I'll be taking a ride there to try his food. I was impressed. Have a wonderful time and be safe in the big cities.

Washington D.C.: I forgot that you had trip planned to Cinque Terre this weekend. I have a trip planned there for May. Can you give me a heads up on thing and places not to miss? I have heard that the lemon liquor in Italy is divine -- so is Cinque Terre the place to get it? Also could you let me know who to pronounce the area? I pronounce it in French -my language background- but I have heard it pronounced with an accent at the end of Cinque. Thanks!

Kim O'Donnel: Cool, glad I can help you out on this one. First, say CHEEN KWAY TER RAY. There are five villages (cinque means five, terre means land) --Monterosso, Vernazza, Corniglia, Manorolo and Riomaggiore. My faves were Vernazza, which has a wonderful piazza right on the water. Monterosso is where we stayed, at a little hotel called Souvenir. Owner is Recino. He was a trip. If you go there, tell him I said hello and ask him to see his washingtonpost.com cap that I gave him as a gift. It's not a luxury hotel by any stretch but it will do if you want a night or two there. The whole area is really really old, as in prehistoric, and in parts of Monterosso you really feel the energy of shall I say, spirits. Quite haunted, in fact. Lots of porticoes and caverns. I loved it, but this witch was spooked. The whole area is beautiful, right on the Ligurian sea. You can't go wrong. You can buy a ticket to travel between villages for a 24-hour period, and you can also hike between towns as well. In fact, the stretch between Riomaggiore and Manorolo is called Via Amore, and it's appropriately named. Very romantic. Have a wonderful time and let me know if you want more details. And yes, the limoncino is a regional product so make sure you try some when there.

Washington, DC: Did you get to Genova yet? Make sure that you really get into the city, not just on the edge!! It is a truly intense place because of the incline, it feels like the city is about to fall onto you, but it doesn't. Enjoy!!

Kim O'Donnel: It's funny you mention Genova. Passed through yesterday afternoon and got to stay for only a little while, down by the aquarium area, and I wasn't exactly bowled over. However, there's an international feeling about the place. I heard lots of other languages and saw lots of skin colors, which for me always makes for a more interesting place. I would like to go back with a little more time and do some poking around.

Chevy Chase, MD: Have you had any prosecco yet?

Kim O'Donnel: No, but I've had mortadella and a slew of other kinds of salumi...and as I experience new renditions will be sure to report back to you...

Washington, DC: I'm glad that you enjoyed the Grappa, and you are right about what it is, but don't expect very much of it to taste like flowers!! I worked in the liquor business in Switzerland and had quite a bit of exposure to different qualities of Calvados, Williamine, Grappa, etc. Grappa, like Slivovitz, is very much a local product that varies widely. Very hard to know what you'll be getting when you order, especially here in the states, but when it it right, Oh Baby!!

Kim O'Donnel: I'm telling you, this particular grappa tasted like a bouquet of flowers. And I promise you, I noticed this on the first sip and was not hallucinating. It was so heavenly, so smooth...some of us were admiring its lack of harshness on the esophagus as has been my experience in the past. I am definitely going to try different labels and will let you know what they taste like as well...

San Francisco, CA: I love balsamic vinegar. About a year ago I splurged and bought some of the good stuff -- from the right region, aged 15 years. After using it for a special salad, I put it away deep in a cabinet. When I brought it out recently to use again, it was a mess. There was a thick gelatinous mass in the middle surrounded by separated liquid. Can it be saved? or should just throw it away and use the next bottle faster? Thanks.

Kim O'Donnel: One thing we learned about keeping traditional balsamic (you would know if it was by the label --it must state so) is to wipe clean the area around the top to avoid this kind of mess. As for the gelatinous mess in the middle, I will have to ask my chef instructor and let you know what he thinks. Check in with me next time (Thurs and next Monday). He's in Germany right now, at a wine festival, and will be back at week's end.

Washington DC: Kim,

I'm glad you are learning the glories of grappa. I have been a fan for several years, and if you haven't tried it yet, a shot in your after-dinner coffee is a real treat. I wanted to ask if you are learning anything more specific about grappa, i.e., what distinguishes one from another. There are so few varieties available here, that it's difficult to do a taste testing or anything. -Unless you eat at San Marco in Adams Morgan, which has an extensive selection.-

Kim O'Donnel: I had my first grappa in an espresso, and it was lovely, but I asked to have the second one without the coffee so I could really appreciate its complexity. There are different grappas based on different grapes and so I guess I'll just have to keep drinking so I can provide you all with the ultimate in grappa research. I wouldn't want to let you down, vero?

chapel hill, nc: about olive oils....at some point in my life, I learned that one should use somewhat run-of-the-mill olive oils when you're using the oil in a skillet for cooking onions for example, and to save the extra-special extra-virgin oils for drizzling on top of cooked items or for salads. The idea being, of course, that heating the oil diminishes its impact. Does this wisdom still hold, based on what you've learned?

Kim O'Donnel: What they are trying to teach us is to do away with the notion of "run of the mill" versus extra special idea, and to think every time you are cooking which oil would pair best with the food you are about to prepare. I know, it might mean some work and research, but the idea has weight. They fry with olive oil here, something I wouldn't really do before now.

washington, dc: Kim -
I find that blanching broccoli rabe just briefly before adding garlic and olive oil dramatically reduces the bitterness - and taking out all the thick stems. I'm very jealous also - but I'm going to Tuscany in July so I have something to look forward to !

Kim O'Donnel: Yes, blanching can help mellow out the rabe as well...have a wonderful time in Tuscany and mangia bene!

San Francisco, CA: I am so jealous of you!!! I took my first trip to Italy last fall and still dream about it every day. I brought home some balsamic vinegar which I purchased in Greve in Chianti. Can you tell me some names of balsamic vinegar we can purchase here that are worthy to cook with? Ciao

Kim O'Donnel: Let me find out what I can. I don't know which producers export to the States, but I will try and find out for you this week.

dc: what kinds of desserts have you had--besides gelato? do tell.

Kim O'Donnel: Semifreddo, which is like gelato but not. Amaretti, and the ones from Liguria are to die for. Actually, I've been going for the fruit bowls more often, because I'm infatuated with the wonderful fruit here -- kiwis, blood oranges, pears, strawberries --all lovely and very intense in flavor.

boston, ma: sounds like you are in food paradise...have you had any gnocchis yet, and if so, what kind of sauces were they served in??

Kim O'Donnel: Yes, I had gnocchi the other night in Monterosso, gnocchi al pesto!!! Finally, I have the chance to try pesto in its proper locale, and baby it was SMOOTH sailing. So rich, so mellow, so addictive.

Chevy Chase, MD: Hi Kim, hope you are having fun. I have a question about Tiramisu. I learned how to make it this weekend at a cooking class given at L'academie de cuisine in Bethesda. It was glorious, but I was slightly worried about the raw egg whites mixed in with the whipped cream (the yolks were warmed up over steam til slightly thickened).

But mainly my question is whether Italians eat Tiramisu a lot or is it an americanized thing based on our desire to eat sweet desserts? I had thought Italians typically finish the meal with fruit, not dessert.

Kim O'Donnel: Tiramisu is available here. I haven't yet tried it locally. And yes, they like desserts, but I think a lot depends on how big your meal has been preceding the dessert. If you've had several courses, you may want to skip a big tiramisu and instead have a cheese plate.
>If I get a hold of some, I'll let you know what the local secret is...

Fairfax, Va.: good afternoon, Kim. I will be heading over to Rome-Venice next month for a much needed vacation. What local produce-dishes must I have before coming back to the States?

-lou.

Kim O'Donnel: In Rome, I don't know. But I will recommend a book that has done me well already: Faith Willinger's "Eating in Italy." It focuses on the northern half of the country, with great background on regional ingredients, specialties, restaurants, markets, food shops, etc. This is worth buying for your trip, lou.

falls church, va: Kim - Glad you are in Italy - now I can ask you a food question that has been plaguing my sister and I for over a year. When we were in Italy, just over a year ago, everyone was "wild" to eat this one type of salad green. When we asked the American translation - we were told it was rocket. What the heck is rocket?

Kim O'Donnel: I know rocket and of course it is escaping me, but it may even be that rocket is used interchangeably with arugula (arucola)...my brain like a sieve at the moment...but you could buy some arugula at the fresh fields and taste it to see if it's close to what you experienced...

Washington, DC: 1. That espresso with the grappa -- was that an "espresso corretto", i.e. "corrected" with spirits? Or maybe it's something else -- I tried a corrected espresso once, but I didn't know what was in it. But it was pretty good.

2. How are you finding the fruits over there? I remembered that they were smaller and tastier than the ones I get here in D.C. -- I think it might have to do with our fruits being harder for better shelf life.

Are your muscles sore from hiking the Cinque Terre?

Kim O'Donnel: Brava! Yes, it's called an espresso corretto...as for frutta, the kiwis...ahhh. Did you know that >Italy is gaining on New Zealand as the leader producer of kiwis? I didn't until a few days ago. And the blood oranges. Big and juicy and beautiful colors.
Didn't hike too far in Cinque Terre, since the pathway from >Manorolo to Corniglia was under construction, but fun nonetheless.

olive oil girl in chapel hill: i guess it's a good idea to not think about the special vs. run-of-the-mill olive oils, but oo-la-la the good oils are expensive! -i use olive oil for just above everything...frying eggs, softening onions and peppers, sautéing chicken breasts, frying fish-. In fact, i just last week saw a recipe for poaching fish in olive oil...it called for 4 cups or some such amount! Even for run-of-the-mill oils, I'm guessing that would be $10 of oil, at least!

Kim O'Donnel: I know. It's not cheap. I totally understand. The basic things here, like bottled water, which is sweeter and thicker, costs about 40 cents per one liter bottle. 40 cents. Come on. Chocolate. Milk. Butter (as a result). Olive oil. These things come from the land. And they are given great care. And this is why the products to make other things taste so much better. But I learned a funny thing: Italy imports wheat from the States to make their flour! Not all of it, but they like our wheat. And their flour is so much nicer and more specific.

dc: rocket is arugula.

Kim O'Donnel: Hallelujah. I'm not losing my mind. Thanks dc.

WDC: Why is it that Americans, including myself, are so impressed with other country's food? I've been to Italy, and I know how good it is, but it only served to make me more ashamed of our country. Is our food really that wretched? Why the inferiority complex?

Kim O'Donnel: Let's not forget that food in the States has come a LONG WAY. There is much more care, more education, more concern with what we eat, how it's produced, what we buy in market and at the restaurant. However, we still revolve our lives around fast food. And so many people don't know how to cook because they grew up eating crap. Pre-processed crapola. They were never taught the beauty of the land, what it can produce, what its relationship should be to the table and our communities, and so instead many of us bond with Wendy's and Taco Bell and other corporate entities to fill our stomachs but not our souls. I see it more as growing pains of becoming more aware rather than having a complex...because I think the more we learn, the closer we get to eating cleaner food.

Washington, DC: Kim -- You lucky, lucky girl! You're not missing much here -- it's decidedly un-springlike.
My question: I have a bunch of carrots. Is there anything quick & tasty to do with them, besides just carrot sticks?

Kim O'Donnel: I think you should make carrot ginger soup, so easy, so light and a breath of spring into your tummy.

Sticks, Mt. Airy: On the pesto was it lovely and smooth like a green pea soup? More delicate and not as smashing as some of the very coarse pestos here in the states (which I do love on crostini or bruchetta).

Kim O'Donnel: yes, kind of pea soup looking but so balanced, so delicate and definitely not dark green and of course, the oil speaks for itself in this case. It was wonderful oil from Liguria.

Chevy Chase, MD: Hi Kim. I have about 4 lemons that need using up. Any ideas for either dessert or main course? (I have a whole chicken cup up in the freezer) Any Italian renditions?

Kim O'Donnel: Well, I need to get the recipe for limonciata (spelling?) pressed lemons for lemonade Italy style. They use a lot of lemons here, but mainly to bring out the flavor of things, not as main courses.

Gaithersburg,MD: Hi Kim,
I am submitting this question in advance.
Love your chat. I have a pizza question and here it goes, I tried making pizza from scratch at home last week. The dough came out very good ,but after baking the crust became very hard . I wanted to have soft and chewy crust,so please help.

Thanks

Kim O'Donnel: I have pizza dough class on Friday. Hold this thought and I'll share with you what I learned. I have recipes at home but it might be nice to see what they do differently and pass it on to you. So check in with me next Monday, okay?

Rosslyn, VA: Hey KO,

So IS it just my imagination, Venetian cooking, or ALL Italian cooking that is salty?

Prego -- Z

Kim O'Donnel: I'm not having salt overload here, so I'm not sure what you're referring to. Did you have a bad experience? Tell me more, Z.
ko

Kim O'Donnel: Gotta run folks. Check in with me this Thursday at noon for Italian Journal, and then I'm back again next Monday as well. By then, I'll have visited two cheese producers (actually tomorrow, we're going to Valle d'aosta in the way north to taste Fontina!), made pizza, drank more grappa, learned about animal fats and so on and so on. Til then, mangia mangia, and I'll see you here hopefully giovedì!
Ciao...

washingtonpost.com: Join us Thursday, March 23 at noon EST, for Kim's Italian Journal.