By Craig Cola / washingtonpost.com What's Cooking Goes to Italy Hosted by Kim O'Donnel washingtonpost.com Staff Monday, April 3, 2000 Calling all foodies! For the next three weeks, Kim O'Donnel is cooking and logging on, LIVE from Italy. Enrolled at the Italian Culinary Institute for Foreigners in Costigliole d'Asti, Kim will share her far-flung adventures, both in and out of the classroom, until April 4. This is your chance to explore Italy's Piedmont region, from the artisans in the countryside to the big-city caffe culture in Milan and Turin. Check out these upcoming dates from Italy: March 16 - Italian Journal from Costigliole d'Asti March 20 - What's Cooking from Costigliole d'Asti March 23 - Italian Journal March 27 - What's Cooking March 30 - Italian Journal April 3 - What's Cooking April 6 - Copenhagen Journal In addition to the Italian Journal segments (March 16, 23, 30), Kim will host What's Cooking, her popular cooking discussion held on Mondays (March 20, 27; April 3, Noon EST). A graduate of Peter Kump's New York Cooking School, Kim spends much of her free time in front of a stove or with her nose in a cookbook. If you can't make the live event, you can always send Kim O'Donnel an e-mail or drop in on the What's Cooking message board. Plus, check out Kim's pre-Italy video interview. Below is today's transcript. To read the most recent responses, please select "Get New Responses" or select "Automatically Update Page."

Kim O'Donnel: Buon giorno from a very rainy Costgliole d'Asti. Today is my last program from Italy, for I leave tomorrow for a brief retreat to Copenhagen. I'll be Stateside early next week. But before I report back to the office, I'll be in New York participating as a judge in an Italian olive oil recipe contest.

By the way, for those of you who asked about buying olive oil, here is the Web site for Ardoino olive oil, the producer in Liguria (Isnardi) that I visited last week: www.isnardi.it

And their email address: ardoino@isnardi.it
If any of you pursue this, please let me know of your experience.

Now, for the person who wanted to know correct proportions for fonduta (fondue sauce using fontina cheese) Aosta Valley style, here goes:

I apologize for metrics but haven't had a chance to do any conversion.

In a large saucepan, put 400 g of diced fontina cheese, 1 spoonful of flour and a glass of milk (the recipe doesn't say how much milk, so add gradually, maybe up to about 8 oz glass). Stir everything on low-medium heat, but make sure it never boils. When cheese has melted, take off the heat and add 4 egg yolks and whisk very briskly so that you don't have scrambled eggs and that everything is incorporated and nice and smooth.

Put back on heat (the recipe says up to 60,70 degrees C), stirring, so that eggs cook a bit. When fonduta is smooth, serve in soup bowls, etc with fried bread or breadsticks or whatever your heart desires.

These last few days have been so chockful of sensory stimuli, visual, olfactory, gustatory (is that a word, please say yes) and intellectual. Since last Thursday's segment, I took off for the weekend for a return trip to the Valle d'Aosta region because I had felt an interesting connection in the short time I was there last week or so. This time round, I had a chance to further explore the local cuisine, both in a restaurant situation and on a working farm.

Saturday night I stayed at Les Ecureuils (in French, the squirrels), a working farm at an altitude of about 1,500 meters, that has a small restaurant and homey accommodations for up to 12 people. This kind of accommodation is called an agriturismo (in Italian) or exploitations agritouristiques (in French), and in Valle D'Aosta, there are about 45 such places, although some provide only accommodations, others only restaurants, etc. Check this out: Everything that you eat in the restaurant at Les Ecureuils is from the land and prepared by Glory Gontier, her husband Pepe Moniotto and son Piero Ballauri. I had Piero's freshly made goat cheese with herbs and his ricotta the next morning for breakfast. Dinner included an antipasti of salamis, such as goat as well as goose (seasoned with rosemary and absolutely stunning)...then there was a soup of leeks, fontina and bread...roasted leg of kid(!) with braised leeks...and a pear pastry with pinenuts and hints of chocolate for dessert. Everything was lovely. When I woke up in the morning, I was greeted with an incredible in-your-face view of snow-capped Alps. Ahhh.

One more thing before I start with your questions: had a chance to go snoe-showing in the Great San Bernard Valley on Saturday morning, with fresh snow from Friday night. Went with a goofy but very experienced guide named Paolo Turcotti and his friend Marco and had a blast. More on that in a photo essay and travelogue that will be published on the site beginning next week. So, on that note, andiamo!

Arlington, VA: Hi Kim! These chats are bringing back memories of a few weeks I spent in Rome 20 years ago - especially of the food! There were lots of little trattorias around the Termini that sold delicious tid-bits - many of them stuffed in pastry. Why can't we have them here? My real question is about balsamic vinegar - are you finding different qualities and nuances, as with wine? Is the cheap stuff we get here the real thing?

Kim O'Donnel: Hello Arlington, glad to be able to job your memory bank. Those little tidbits that you're talking about are called salatini --and I wonder too why we can't have them, among other things that are so much part of daily life here. I mean really, caffe-bar life and culture in Italy rules. There's nothing else like it. Even in the highway road stops you can have a coffee or proper panino rather than a Bob's Bigboy special. Re: balsamic vinegar: it must come from a recognized area, from Modena, and it must be an officially recognized producer, working under certain standards and quality assurance tests. There are official tasters for traditional balsamic vinegar and if they don't consider a particular vinegar measuring up, then it canNOT be called aceto balsamico tradizionale. It can be called balsamic vinegar, but not the real thing. The real stuff is also packaged in special bottles with special markings, etc. The stuff we get is very far away from the wonderfully viscous smooth stuff found here.

Arlington, Virginia: Kim - I made risotto for the first time this weekend, and it turned out pretty well. However, is there a way to prepare it ahead of time and then keep it warm or warm it up if I were to serve it at a party? It took me 45 minutes in front of the stove - getting hot and sweaty from stirring my brains out - to make it over the weekend, and I couldn't do that as a hostess. Any ideas? Thanks.

Kim O'Donnel: Hi there, I know how much time is involved in making risotto, but in order to have the best possible results, you really shouldn't prepare ahead of time and then reheat. You could toast your rice in advance, but if you try to reheat the whole thing, something will get lost. You will no longer have that wonderful rich creaminess that makes risotto so special, and a phenomenon that lasts only for a few precious moments. So, if you want to make risotto, have a few helpers on hand and then the job won't be so arduous! Make it a team sport and everyone can appreciate all the hard work involved to make this very special dish.

Metro Center DC: Your trips sounds just wonderful! I'm very intrigued by the 'farm holiday' places--agriturismo. Do you have further info on such places -website, tel-? Could a visitor help out around the farm and-or restaurant? Sounds like a fabulous vacation for a farm market worker like me. tx!

Kim O'Donnel: You may contact Cristina D'Effayes at tourist office in Valle d'Aosta at this address:
g.obert@regione.vda.it

Please tell her that I suggested that you contact her for initial information and then she will give you additional names of specific folks to reach...tell her everything athat you're interested in doing. She's very good at matching needs, objectives with all the possible places to stay and see. Yes, it is a wonderful way to spend a very peaceful vacation. I would do it again in a heartbeat. The folks at Les Ecureuils said they were very keen on bringing guests on to learn how to prepare their dishes and so yes, I think this is a possibility. If you want more ideas, please let me know.

Alex, VA: Kim - your reports are great, much appreciated and now saved in a special binder for posterity and fun reading. I'm wondering if you have had any interesting seafood that is not readily obtainable in the US? I fondly recall a great antipasto-salad with lots of baby octupi, and many unknown seacritters in a small cafe in Genoa some years ago. Your travels have prompted me to return to Italy for good vino, good opera, and great eating ventures in the very near future. What more is there for a good life? Thanks!

Kim O'Donnel: Yes, those wonderful antipasti generally include fresh jewels from the sea, including shrimp, clams, octupus, anchovies, sardines maybe...I am delighted that you are enjoying my reports from here...please keep your eyes peeled for a travel essay with little journal entries and photos, documenting the last three weeks...my producer eleanor tells me pieces of it will launch next Monday, the 10th. At the end of three weeks, I keep thinking of all the things I'd like to continue to explore and the new things I didn't even have a chance to investigate. Guess it means I'll have to plan another voyage. I was also thinking of the kind of culture shock I'll experience upon my return...the village life has kind of grown on me...

Arlington, VA: Bonjourno, Kim! I hope you're continuing to have a heavenly time, Italy makes me think of the three most precious things in life: love, family, and food! I first have a tip for the person who was complaining about pizza dough being to thick; just split the ball of dough in half, throw the other ball in the freezer or make another pizza! With practice, you'll figure out how much dough gives you the thickness that you like.
I wanted to ask you about the sauces that you’ve had on your pasta dishes so far. How are the red sauces, pestos, and white sauces? Do they use whole tomatoes or crushed tomatoes? Do they cut the acid with sugar like some folks do over here? Do they have cheese in them already, or do they add a sprinkle of parm on top like we do here? What has been your sauce experience?

Kim O'Donnel: You see certain sauces in certain regions, generally. As far as red sauces go, you don't see much of that in Piedmont. When we've had pasta al pomodori, it's been very light, integrated completely with the pasta and it seems a little bit of crushed with whole. I'm not seeing sugar in the tomatoes and the cheese is often mixed in...but it really depends. The thing about cheese...is that it's not used as liberally as we use in the States...not on fish, for example, depends on how heavy a sauce is...lots of sauces for pasta based on olive oil, really simple stuff, which I love. Heavy, creamier sauces all the way up north in places like valle d'aosta and a lot of that has to do with the colder climate.

Warrenton, VA: A lot of Italian food is fattening. What have you found that you like and is healthy too?

Kim O'Donnel: See, I agree with you and I don't. The Italians don't graze like we do. They don't go out to lunch, scarf down their meal in 20 seconds, burp it up with a big ole coke and buy a bag of chips or other snack to wolf down during the course of the afternoon. They eat complete meals. they take their time when eating. So yes, the meals seem big but the overall result is that you really aren't very hungry inbetween meals. and often lunch is the big meal of the day, dinner being much lighter fare (however, in restaurants a different story)...and as far as healthy is concerned, it's all healthy. But again, a matter of moderation AND exercise. It's taken some getting used to, I must admit, this pattern, but in a way, I kind of like it. I would like to be eating less meat than I am, but that's personal taste and comfort level. And of course, you can't forget the fruit here --it's wonderful, apples, pears, blood oranges, kiwis, strawberries (coming into season now)...

Copenhagen, Denmark:: Now that you have been snow-rolling in the Great San Bernard Valley, have you experienced that climate changes contribute to how food tastes ... I mean, what about food on a hot day & food on a cold day? Are there pitfalls re ingredients & attitude ... in eating & cooking?

Kim O'Donnel: Well, I will say that after four hours shlepping through the snow with my expert guide and copartners in crime, I was starving. But maybe the answer to your question is yes, the climate there historically has affected first, the kind of food that people can grow successfully, and secondly, the kinds of dishes they have needed to survive and sustain during very cold, very long winters. So, lots of stews, lots of gamey meats, lots of heavy cheeses, cured meats, thick breads, stuff like that.

Washington, DC: For Arlington risotto cook: Patrick O'Connell -sp?- from Inn at Little Washington ran a recipe for risotto partially assembled in advance in a NY Times column. maybe it's in his cookbook? I know many restaurants cook the risotto until it id nearly finished then spread it on cookie sheets and refridgerate it. Heat it with warm broth per order. I've had marvelous risotto in restaurants and obviously they are not standing there stirring for 40 mins. every time it's ordered.

Kim O'Donnel: Yes, you can do it this way, but in some restaurants, they do it in small batches, in rather shallow pans, to speed up the time. And if you're at a good restaurant, they should tell you that risotto does take time to prepare. I prefer to do all the hard work and get rewarded for doing so.

Ravioli, VA: Several weeks ago a writer in the NYTimes wrote about how difficult it was to find ravioli filled with meat on Italian menus. I submitted a question then and continued to browse the bookstore. I found the same situation in the store and in my cookbooks. Only a Jewish cookbook had one for kreplach that sounded good. What is the situation in the motherland?
Thanks,
Jim

Kim O'Donnel: Well, agnolotti is the word used for meat-filled pasta. The ravioli I have had was filled with a kind of strange combination of fish and apples, but that's not really the norm. I am going to ask before I leave, and if you check in with me when I am stateside, I will let you know what I find out. But maybe the way to go is agnolotti, which by the way, have been heavenly.

Dupont Circle: Kim, Know you are in Italia but have a question re: DC markets. Would love to try cooking with ramps, I hear they are wonderful. -A ramp risotto perhaps?- Where can I find them in our area? I know the season is hort. Checked Eastern Market last week and no luck.

Kim O'Donnel: Well, I had a nettle risotto a few backs back, so yes, why not a ramp risotto? As for where to pick them up, maybe try the Dupont Circle market on Sundays.

Germantown, MD: Ciao Kim!

Okay - here I go again w- the wheat pasta question -

What's the best way, considering I'm trying to limit my white flour intake, to make whole wheat pasta -gnocchi, ravioli, linguine-in terms of ratios with other flours?

Thanks a bunch!

BTW - I have a machine which I haven't used yet, but don't let that limit your answer :--

Kim O'Donnel: You could try a combination of buckwheat and white flours and see what you think. You could also try rice flour, but will generate a much thinner, delicate result. But you will need to practice on your untouched machine before you get specific about flour ratios, my dear. And by the way, lots and lots of eggs for fresh pasta. I don't have my chart with me at the moment, but ask me when I get back into town, and it will blow your mind.

Washignton, D.C.: Last week I dashed off this note:

I've found two recipes for Fonduta sauce, made with Fontina cheese. One had flour the other did
not. Which is correct? What proportions of flour to cheese to egg yolks?
I hope you can help.

You asked me to remind you Monday when you had a recipe handy. The reason I ask is that
Roberto Donna made this sauce during a cooking class I attended at his Laboratorio. It wasn’t
part of the printed recipe handout, and he just told us how to make it. My notes say equal parts
of flour and cheese. Later, after the wine wore off and I was trying to recreate the sauce, that
just didn’t seem right. So, I downloaded a recipe from the Web and it didn’t mention flour.
So now I’m asking you.

BTW this is a terrific chat site. I have more than once printed out one of your recipes and
tried them out on the family. Your shrimp with jalapenos and lime was a big hit.

Kim O'Donnel: Hi there,
I didn't forget you, in fact, look at the intro at the top of the page and you'll see I posted details on making fonduta, aosta valley style. check it out.
by the way, one of the chefs here at the school, Pietro Baldi, was a teacher of Roberto Donna's here in Italy. I don't know when or for how long, but they worked together for some time. World is small, no?

Rockville: Hi Kim,
Italy sounds like such a great food country. Have you noticed in your travels whether there are as many vegetarians, vegans, Atkins dieters, etc there as there seems to be stateside? Or any? Are they very diet conscious in Italy?

Kim O'Donnel: Great question. This is something I've been thinking about a lot lately...in my very short time here, I have not really encountered "vegetarian" menus or restaurants or special eaters. People eat meat here, and they're quite comfortable with it. Now, if I had had a chance to go to some big cities, maybe the story would be somewhat different...and sure, in warmer parts of the country, the food is going to be lighter --more fruits and veggies, fish, fewer heavy sauces...I would like to explore this, but so far the conclusion that I've drawn is that people eat square meals here and so they get their nutrients, they get their balance, they don't snack inbetween and eat at supersonic speed like we do.

Arlington, Va.: Kim, so glad you're having a great time in Italy, but we miss you back here! Will you be conducting seminars and-or classes for your poor States-bound .com compatriots?

Can you talk a little bit about the "rustic" foods that you've encountered -- polentas, pasta and meat sauces are common in peasant cultures in many countries -- stick to your ribs, feed families on the cheap, etc. How do the "basics" differ from what we're used to here?

See you soon!
LT

Kim O'Donnel: Hi LT,
thanks for checking in. It's nice to be missed! Perhaps we will have to do some kind of seminars...not a bad idea. Lots of rustic-style foods in this part of the country, more because of the climate than economics. It's colder here, more mountainous, and so these conditions dictate the kind of dishes that people eat every day. Lots of meat. Cured and fresh. It's hard to compare basics between here and there because our idea of basics is still evolving, constantly changing. I was discussing this very thing with a woman in Valle d'Aosta just yesterday, about how we as a society in the sStates need to educate our young people of the importance of preparing fresh food, and that it needn't be expensive or pretentious to do so. Maybe that's a project we should put our heads together on...

Rosslyn VA: Hi Kim,

I usually don't follow your columns, but was interested since my family is Sicilian descent. Just curious, what would you consider the basic differences in cooking between southern Italian and what you've experienced over the last few weeks. Growing up I remember alot of red sauces, heavy pastries, chianti and very thick pizza dough, most of the time without cheese, but with sauce and anchovies.

Kim O'Donnel: Hi ya,
unfortunately there was no time to go south, and so I don't want to act like I know what I'm talking about without having been there. Very few red sauces in these parts (Piedmont) and the pizza dough is very thin. Wine is not Chianti, but Barbera! Barbaresco. Dolcetto. Moscato. Rusché,to name a few. Oh yeah, and grappa.

wdc: In response to the person looking at wheat flours, check out King Arthur flours. I know they have a web site, and they sell their flour at giant, fresh field, and BJs. They have different protein % flour. You could probably get one of their high protein flours to mix with your low protein wheat. Also, not to sound like an ad, but even their white flour is not "white".

Kim O'Donnel: Thanks for this tidbit wdc. I know we'll get it right for the floured-consumed kid.

Inwood, WV: Re: Ramps. If you truly want to experience ramps, go to the Ramp Festival in Elkins, WV, the 21st or 22nd of April. Lots of fun, lots of good eats -they grind them into hamburger and make a mean sandwich- and if you don't like them, you're not stuck with them. As for cooking them yourself, they are a LOT of work because they're next to impossible to clean and if they're not fresh, they're not nearly as good. I love them, but they are an acquired taste. And for goodness sake, DON'T burp afterwards - you'll knock down a bear at 50 feet. If you eat too many, the odor seeps from your pores - I know, 'cause I did it last year. I stunk for a couple of days.

Kim O'Donnel: Wow. Cool! Maybe a road trip is in store!? I've never been to WV, and I'll be back from Europe then. And if I go, I promise not to burp. Thanks!

Fairfax: Hi Kim!

What is "ramp"... and re: the nettle risotto, how would you prepare the nettles? pardon my ignorance, but that just sounds... painful.

Thanks!

Kim O'Donnel: I think you should ask our friend in Inwood, WV exactly what a ramp is, since he/she seems to have had a very intimate experience with them...but from what I understand, it is like a wild onion plant...and re: the nettles, I dond't know how Cristina prepared them for the risotto but I will try to find out before leaving tomorrow.

Michigan: I'm voting for an upcoming Food section to be devoted entirely to Kim's excursion! Chock full of fun photos and wonderful recipies! Like for some of those sauces that another writer mentioned? Perhaps that pizza crust? A few gamey dishes? And lots of uses for that olive oil that I am going to hunt for tonight!!

Kim O'Donnel: Don't worry, we will do our best to share recipes, little stories and all kinds of goodies here on the site...and thanks for the good karma.

Laurel, MD: Hi Kim! I love your Italian stories. Last week you touched on olive oils. Can you recommend some good ones that we can find in the DC area?

Kim O'Donnel: I think we all need to do a little homework on this one...now that I'm armed with all this new insight on olive oil. Let's see what we all can come up with, and then check out the web site I posted at the top of the hour..the woman from the producer tells me that they sell it at certain Safeways (but I have no idea at this point where in the states)...

DC (but wish I was in Italy): When I crush fresh garlic -as I did the other night-, I find that the smell is -impossible- to get off of my skin for a day or more. I scrubbed and buffed and exfoliated, all to no avail, and the smell drove me crazy! Any suggestions?

Kim O'Donnel: Have you ever tried vanilla extract? Sometimes that works. And then there's a steel "soap" that's made in France that works as well...maybe you can get at a Williams-Sonoma type place...maybe others have thoughts?

e. market, DC: I wanted to know if there was any recipe or possible use for the rind of cheese. I went to Italy four months ago and bought some aged parm. The problem is I'm getting to the end of the road with it and parting is such sorrow.

Please tell me there is some use for it.

Thank you.

P.S. I am extremely envious of your journey to Italy

Kim O'Donnel: I have heard you can use it in soups, but frankly I don't know off the top of my head. Let me ask one of the chefs tonight at dinner what they have to say. Promise to deliver with some kind of answer, although I don't know if you'll be pleased or not.

Fairfax: Hi Kim!

You may have been asked this already, I don't know...

Did you spend any time in the Lakes District? If so, what foodies would you recommend from there, and where would you recommend someone visit?

thanks!

Kim O'Donnel: Didn't get there, no time unfortunately...and right now have no first-hand tidbits to share with you. maybe on the next visit...there is so much to experience here, you could never get tired.

Fairfax: Hi!

While we are on the risotto subject, what do you think of the boxed stuff they sell in grocery stores -besides quel horreur! that is-.

I don't mean it is like Ben's or whatever, I think it is just the arborio rice in a box... I've followed the box directions -using fresh ingredients- and I thought it tasted pretty good. Is there an "officially sanctioned" way to make the risotto or a type of rice to buy? Or am I on the right track...

thanks!

Kim O'Donnel: You know, Agnesi pasta company (available in the States in July or August) makes a boxed risotto that apparently is very popular...but I don't know how chockful of salt and preservatives it is...hey, my theory is, if it tastes good and it makes you happy, what the hell, mangia bene. But if you are going to make risotto from scratch, you should use arborio rice indeed...as for brands, that's another homework assignment.

WDC: For the smelly garlic person...
Try running your knife -the one you used to cut the garlic- under cold water, & run your fingers along the sides of the knife-carefully!- I don't why this works, but it does seem to get the smell off pretty well. -onions, too-

Kim O'Donnel: Well, thanks for this, WDC.

Inwood, WV: Ramps again! And 'She' for the record, thanks. A ramp is a wild onion-garlic that grows in moist soil, generally around creeks. It looks most like a spring onion. It has an extremely strong flavor, a combination of the strongest garlic and strongest onion you've ever encountered. Most people either love them or hate them, and the odor lingers forever. You can actually be driving down the road and smell them growing in the wild. Also, Elkins is about a 6 hour ride for y'all, 5 for us. But we still go to the festival every year.

Kim O'Donnel: Many thanks to you, o ramp queen. you have saved the day.

sticks, mt. airy: www.kingarthurflour.com and they have a locator which will tell you what stores carry their products...which I think are lovely -and no dont' work for them...wish I did-

Kim O'Donnel: more help for flour power...thanks sticks.

arlington, va: Ciao, Kim! We miss you in the States. Thanks for keeping up with us, though! A problem: my sister visited this weekend, brought unused stuff from her pantry, and left among other things a jar of capers. I have no idea what to do with them. Do I use them in salads or cooked dishes?

Thanks,
confused with capers

Kim O'Donnel: Don't be confused, Arlington. Capers are great in sauces, in pasta, with scrambled eggs...but I would try them first to see if you like the taste before whipping a plate of eggs and capers...

falls church: i have a lot of pesto and would like to use it for something different than just over pasta... can you help? Thanks!

would this work on a boboli pizza?

Jen

Kim O'Donnel: of course it would work on a boboli...and with roasted potatoes.. used as a spread on a sandwich, with scrambled eggs...with tomatoes in a salad...enjoy.

Kim O'Donnel: Yes, it's time to go. Weird that three weeks is all gone. Wow. As I mentioned at the top of the hour, I will be in New York next Monday at our regular time, participating as a judge in an olive oil recipe contest, but my producer Eleanor has promised me that parts of my travelogue through Italy will be posted for you to begin to chew on...in any case, it's been a most enlightening three weeks, and I want to say ciao ciao...and many thanks to the folks here at the Italian Culinary Institute for Foreigners...Giancarlo, wonderwoman Claudia who arranges everything for everybody...supersonic interpreter Rosanna...chefs Zanetti and Baldi...wine guru Gianni Lercara...and the rest of the crew. Plus much good luck and success to my colleagues in my class in the coming weeks. It's been a strange but very wonderful experience. Ciao! Bye. See you in cyberspace in two weeks.