Frank Ahrens Craig Cola/washingtonpost.com

With Frank Ahrens
Washington Post Staff Writer

Frank Ahrens covers radio for The Washington Post. His column--"The Listener"--appears every other Tuesday in the Style section. Frank is also a general assignment feature writer, and his reporting subjects have included everything from minivans to murders, from baseball to bandwidth.

If you're wondering about the inner workings of radio in Washington, around the country and on the Web, or want to know what Frank really thinks of minivans, then don't touch that dial . . . um, mouse! Please join us for this discussion:

Here is today's transcript.

Frank Ahrens: Good day, all, and thanks for tuning in. Today in the column, we had some news--Donnie Simpson taking his station to task over the Amadou Diallo case, Don & Mike expanding to New York, the Pacifica reshuffling. If you want to talk about any of these issues, chime in. If not, let's open it up.
Let's go.

Fairfax, Va.: Frank.....Even though the ratings are tanking on the JamminOldies format, how come no hype on their morning show Bruce Kelly and the Boogieman ? No mention at all in any of your JamminOldies coverage. Kelly has been in the market before at WPGC and is a native from what I've heard on the show. And the Boogieman is a, well , what else would you expect.

Frank Ahrens: This is a good prompt to take a look at Jamn' Oldies, one year after its introduction (last April) in the market. Typcially, Jamn' Oldies stations around the country have made a big splash, ratings-wise, and then leveled off. That seems to be what's happening here. I'll address the issue in an April column.

Kevin in Palo Alto, CA: Hey Franko... dig your chats every week. I have a question about Radio America, a talk radio network that we get out here but says it's based in D.C... we get Ollie North and Doug Stevens, thier morning guy. I checked them out on the web and they say they're conservative, but late one Saturday night I listened on line and heard some guy named Ryan Jones who was a riot but definately not a conservative show... what kind of response or ratings do these shows get in D.C. where the network is located?

Frank Ahrens: Thanks for checking in from Stanfordland.Yes, RadioAmerica is a conservative politics/values network and Ollie North is their franchise. But they've also got libertarian Doug Stephen, out of Boston area, with about 200 stations, and Stan Major, who's a flammable libertarian, overnight. I've not heard Ryan Jones. RadioAmerica does not make much of a splash here--Stephan is heard in some outer counties and I'm not sure that anyone locally carries North. The big political guns here in D.C. are Don Imus, NPR's "All Things Considered", and G. Gordon Liddy, though I'm sure I'm missing someone. RadioAmerica does well in small- to midsize markets outside the Beltway.

Washington, D.C.: Hey Frank...
Good job reporting the Don & Mike entry into New York City. Poeple including myself have criticized your coverage of D&M in the past, but I must say that this week you came to play, and didn't come up on the short end of the stick.

Frank Ahrens: Thanks but it doens't matter--Don savaged me on the air minutes after my interview with him! Hahahaha!

Charlottesville,VA: Greetings Frank! First time online with you but an avid follower and a radio geek here in c-ville. Would love to know yours -or anyone else's- thoughts on the recently announced Clear Channel Communications-SFX Entertainment merger. Personally, it sounds like a HUGE conflict of interests.

Frank Ahrens: Thanks for checking in from Mr. Jefferson's town. The Clear Channel/SFX merger is indeed huge news. Clear Channel's stock just dropped yesterday after the radio giant's annoucement that it was selling off somethign like 70 stations to comply with federal regulations in its merger with fellow radio giant AMFM Inc., a deal that was udnerway even before the SFX merger. With the SFX merger, consdier this: Now the combined company will be able to: 1) play the song by an artist 2) promote the concert by that artist when they come to town 3) advertise the concert on the companys HALF-MILLION BILLBOARDS (!) 4) hold the concert in a venue owned by SFX and 5) promote the concert outside of radio with SFX promoters. All they need now is a CD pressing plant and they can own the product front to back. That's the trend in these recent mega-mergers: companies that all deal in teh same product--be it music or news--get together so they can completely control the pipeline of the means of production from front to back (a little Marxist-speak there). One local promoter asked me what I thought the Department of Justice will have to say about the merger. I don't know, but you can believe I'll be making the calls to DOJ to find out.

Washington D.C.: Frank... I understand Brook Stevens -formerly of Stevens-Core- has taken a job at a PR company? Is she going to be replaced, or is Chris going to do the show solo? Also did WMAL find a replacement for Chip Franklin?

Frank Ahrens: Given that I haven't talked to Brooke Stevens in a couple of months, the last best info I had on her was that she was working at a P.R. firm in Virginia. Updates are welcome. Chris Core will be doing the show on his own and WMAL is seeking two replacements for Chip Franklin, as they're splitting his 8-midnight show up into a 7-10 and 10-1 show. (One hour will be shaved off back of Core's show, which will help him--ratings go into the crapper from 7-8 as people are out of their cars and home and switch on the TV.)

Washington, DC: Yo Frank:

First, re: Don and Mike. Can't stand 'em. No talent, childish. It's time folks moved on...

Second, I recently attended R&R's Talk Show Seminar at the Grand Hyatt, and saw and heard a disturbing panel discussing FM Talk. They say the demos are 24-44, but it sounds more like they're targeting boys 12-15. Any thoughts on this?

Frank Ahrens: You know, this is a good point. I missed that seminar but wanted to go. I know, for instance, that Don & Mike target men 25-54; that's where the money is. But I will tell you that 7 out of 10 hate e-mails I get from aggrieved Don & Mike fans (and, oh, I get plenty) are from kids who tell me that they're 15, 16 years old. It reminds me of a year or so ago when I went to a WWF match in St. Louis--the crowd was thick with teenage boys. And, not to sound too much like Bill Bennett, but it was impossible not to notice a certain coarsening of the culture going on: The 13-year-old boys next to me kept screaming anti-gay epithets at the wrestlers in the ring.

Upper Marlboro, MD: Hi Frank,
Can you tell me what happened to the Easy Listening Station 92.7 FM located in Prince Frederick, MD? W

Frank Ahrens: Good question and one I forgot to mention at the top of the show: WMJS 92.7 EZ listening was bought last year by Mega, the rapidly growing Spanish-language radio network; it is the company's first FM station in the market. The Mega CEO told me then that he'd be converting the format to Spanish-language sometime this spring, so I'm guessing it's gone dark during the conversion, which is a sort of odd way to do things.

Northwest DC: How many questions an hour are you able to answer in this forum ? It seems really slow compared to other chat forums. Do you do your own typing, is that the problem ?

Frank Ahrens: It's only slower becaue I'm formulating thoughtful, insightful answers as opposed to ranting off the top of my head like some of the OTHER on-line discussion hosts. (Here's the part where I incite an internecine washingtonpost.com conflict: Ahrens and Kempley in an iron-cage grudge match!)

Herndon, Va.: How's it going Frank? Just wanted to let you know that I am streaming SpankRadio as we speak. I've already heard Guided By Voices and Pavement so far today. Thanks for the great tip in your column! Do you think an eclectic station like this would have any shot of staying afloat in the D.C. market? Thanks.

Frank Ahrens: Thanks for putting words into action. Inasmuch as there are no ads on the station, no, it wouldn't work in D.C. or anywhere else. But that's a churlish answer. Nationwide, the best that "alternative" commercial radio formats pull, ratings-wise, is about a 2.5. For comparison, the top-rated stations in D.C., WHUR/WPGC/WKYS consistently get a 5.5 to a 6.5. There simply is a limited audience for the sort of music heard on SpankRadio. The Internet is the natural habitat for this market-fillers; that's why I find 'em and put 'em in the paper.

NW DC: Frank-ster!
I also must congrat you on your non-biased reporting on the Don N Mike WNEW story. Even though Don "trashed" you the day of the interview, I wouldn't be surprised to hear him talking out the other side of his mouth on today's show.
I've listened to him for a long time, and all he has asked for is fair shake. My money is on you getting your 'props' on their show today.
Also, what's your thought -personally- on the Donnie Simpson story? I almost got a feeling of reverse racism reading about it. Thank you!

Frank Ahrens: Here's what's going to happen on the Don & Mike show today, I guar-an-tee it: they will complain that they were the second item in the column, not the lead item.
As for the Donnie Simpson comments, no, I don't think there's reverse racism going on. I think there's a long and deep backstory to the situation and it is this: WPGC is a black hits station aiming at a largely black audience (about 63 percent of its listeners are black, according to Arbitron). Also, all of the station's deejays are black, naturally. However, the top two execs at the station are white, and the station is owned by a large radio company, CBS, which also owns several other stations in town. So I think there is a natural tension, sometimes, between labor and management at WPGC, over so-called black issues. Note that WKYS, which is owned by Radio One, a black-owned compnay, has tried to exploit this situation for years, calling itself "the people's station."

Damascus MD: Any feedback on the Greaseman's new job? Has there been any public reaction one way or the other about his return to radio, albeit a low-key return? Any chance we'll be able to hear a repeat broadcast either by webcast, shortwave or conventional AM-FM? -I miss his show here.-

Frank Ahrens: Greaseman update: I had been working, for more than a month, on how the Greaseman has spent his very unusual and interesting part year since his firing. That story was backburnered, briefly, by the news stories out of the Virgin Islands, but it is under fullsteam and should be appearing shortly in a Washington Post near you. He told me the St. Croix episode made him think he's going to set up a studio in his home and broadcast over the Internet, on a Web-only station, bypassing the FCC and any possible protesters.

Charlottesville again....: The conglomeration of radio has had a huge impact on what we in the industry deem as "both sides of the building" meaning programming and sales. Already, companies like Clear Channel and others will withold "adds" of songs on their chains of stations in a particular format in order to satisfy the need of one of their particular stations -ie: needing bands for a festival,etc.- From the sales side, they make it almost impossible for the little guy to compete because of their high volume of frequencies, they can offer more "bang for the buck"..meaning if a client buys on their chain of Washington D.C stations, they will sell them time on their smaller market stations super cheap. It's getting horribly out of control.

Frank Ahrens: This is an excellent posting from someone who sounds like they know what they're talking about. It may seem a little inside baseball, but it is decisions like these that affect what you hear on the radio.

Washington D.C.: Have you heard anything new about HFS morning show? I haven't listen in a while, is Gina Crash still "filling in" or is she there permanently or is she back on nights?

Frank Ahrens: As far as I know, it's The Morning Crash with Gina in charges, as permanent as anything is in commercial radio. I think she sounds good, btw.

Fairfax City: Rita could open a can of whup ass on you and Grove both.

Frank Ahrens: Hahahaha! Yeah, but what about Levey? Don't you think I could take him?

Somewhere, USA: I travel a lot and missed out on what the story is about how one of my favorite radio people - Brooke Stevens - got fired from WMAL-There seems to be a wall of silence - can you enlighten me? Thanks, Gale in Clifto

Frank Ahrens: Where the heck is Clifto?
Brooke Stevens' contract with WMAL was set to expire in February; the station acted early and fired her the week or so before Christmas. The Stevens & Core show ratings were not good and the station felt it was more her fault that Core's, who's been there forever. Also, the station operations director, John Butler, grew less and less enamored of Stevens' style as her time there went along.

Furfax: Are those Howeird Stern rumors still flying? When does his contract expire?

Frank Ahrens: Don't worry about Stern. As a guy at CBS Radio said to me the other day (CBS is Stern's boss), We go through this every four years (or however often Stern's contract is up for renewel.).

Mt. Rainier: Having written in haste, I guess I should clarify. If Mr. Simpson wants to say he's speaking for his audience, I guess that's fair. One assumes people listen to him because they are comfortable with his views?

Frank Ahrens: Yes, that is true. Donnie Simpson over the years as built a reputation as a moderated morning host, and when he takes a particular stand, it's noticed more than someone who just rants all the time about everythign. He has been in the market for a long time (previously at WKYS) and has a large and loyal following. He has a sort of Walter Cronkite trust with his audience, I believe it's say to say. If Donnie is watching this discussion, as he sometimes does, it'd be great to hear from him.

Herndon, Virginia: Do you have an explanation as to why in the name of God the Sports Monkeys are so popular?

Frank Ahrens: Yes. And that explanation is on-air chemistry. These are four guys who've known each other for years, and that comes through on the radio. They aren't radio pros, they talk over each other a lot, they don't alwasy hit their marks--all these things are anathema to the radio industry--but they have that chemistry that you can't produce by just sitting down four radio pros next to each other who don't know each other.

Oakland, CA: You've got ~15 years on Levey...

BUT HE HAS MORE HAIR!!!

Frank Ahrens: Boy, that hurt.

Winchester, VA: How-do Frank:

I really like reading your articles and reading this chat. Thought I'd send in a different type of Don and Mike remark. I am a fan of the show and I do fall in the money demo - I'm a 27 y.o. male in the IT industry. The show puts a smile on my face during my VERY long drive home dealing with all the SUVs and cell phone jerks. They are very juvenile and puerile, but hey, that's part of their charm, that and their interaction with one another seems very genuine, unlike other local DJ pairs. However, I would never want to meet them in person - except for Buzz - as they are EXACTLY the kind of people with whom I don't want to be even remotely associated. But that's fine - they are like a very dysfunctional family that keeps me in a good mood for the drive home.

I just thought I'd chime in to let y'all know we are not all 13 year old bullies - or 40 year old ones, either. For the record, I'm the dude who wrote in about the NPR overnight programming, so my radio tastes really run the gamut.

Thanks!

Frank Ahrens: Thanks much, Winchester. This is a terrific posting.

Arlington, Va.: WRNR train-wreck programming du jour: Toni Childs, the Cure then King Crimson. God, I love these guys. -Well, I could've done without the King Crimson myself, and they could also ease up on the Steely Dan. But these are the mistakes actual humanoid DJs make, as opposed to playing Matchbox 20 every other hour--the kind of crime only a computerized playlist could commit.]

Frank Ahrens: Good comment. However, let me say that recently fired WRNR deejay John Hall called me recently to complain (naturally--he had just been fired) that WRNR was becoming, in his opinion, more playist oriented. In general, though, you're right.

Fairfax: I love WTOP but I HATE the commercial they run for a company with "Father DSL." Why would any self-respecting high tech company run a commercial that is SO hokey ?!? I used to think WTOP ran way too many commercials, but it looks like music stations around here have all added commercials and they run just as many, sometimes 8 or 9 minutes in a row. Yuck.

Frank Ahrens: Thanks for the posting. As WTOP news chief Jim Farley is an avid reader of this discussion, I'm sure he'll appreciate the feedback.

Bethesda, MD: Hi Frank,
What is the story on Jim London's return
to WMZQ? Is he there to stay or is it
just temporary?

Frank Ahrens: I went to WMZQ the day of his return (a couple of weeks ago) and he seemed like a man settling in for the long haul. But always remember--in commercial radio, you're only as good as your last shift, a fact that London knows well. Nothing is set.

Furfax: Not worried -- just hoping he will get the heck out. His act is tired. If he bails, then it would certainly open up the market again for new talent. Maybe a morning show with women -- cool women. The testosterone effect is getting old. How many strippers and porn stars really need to be oogled and interviewed?

Frank Ahrens: You know, this is an excellent point. Gina Crash on WHFS is the only women-led morning show I can think of locally. If her show does well, radio is such an emulative business that perhaps you'll see imitators and Howard will start getting sensitive on his show and it will start sounding more like a Lifetime Network show. hahaha!

Silver Spring, MD: Hi, Frank.
Here's a fact about the Greaseman you may or may not know... he was doing cable infomercials for an on-line dating service. No kidding, I am not making this up.. it was uncovered by -here they are again!- Don and Mike on their show. He -Grease- was using his same schtick but was using the 'nym Chip Bandwidth. BTW: I can't believe he almost went on the air in St. Croix what with his obvious racial problems.

Frank Ahrens: Oh, yes. I have seen the shows. They are for an on-line dating service. And they are horrifyingly bad. I mean, baaaaad.

rockville, Md.: Frank: How difficult is it to have questions answered if they are submitted before the show starts? I noticed that C'Ville got two questions, mine, none.
My question was: Re don and Mike: They must hvae given last week's interview to another post reporter because what you wrote in this morning's column and what don geranimo said last week were two different things. I think he just couldn't stand the fact that he finally had the opportunity to talk to you and now had to preempt your column. YOur thoughts?

Frank Ahrens: It's never too early to submit questions...sorry I hadn't gotten to you sooner. I don't know what Don said on the air, but I reported what he told me (I interviewed him for today's column on Friday) and what his general manager told me about the move to New York faithfully in today's column. Don may have been having some fun on me on his show. He made a point of telling me, in our interview, that "I'm nothing like I am on the radio in real life." He's a carpool dad, you know.

Arlington Va: When are you going to have people from local stations join you on these chat sessions ? I'd really like to ask those program directors WHY they do certain things. WHY, for example, does WTOP carry the samn Orioles ? Why doesn't Dennis Owens just shut up and let us hear classical music ? Why does WAMU save all their local news for Saturday morning at 11 ?

Frank Ahrens: Good point. A month or so ago, I asked Jim Farley from WTOP and John Butler, operations director for WMAL, if they'd guest with me one day. Both said they'd love to; Butler is still busy trying to hire a couple of night time hosts. But they will be on; let's see if I can get them on later this month.

Northwest DC: Did the Arbitrends come out today ? Did the snows of January give a bump in the morning to the local news station ? Their p.d. spoke to my class at AU he he said something like "Mother Nature is our marketing budget for the Winter Arbitron."

Frank Ahrens: I don't get the Arbitrends--they are proprietary, which means only the people who pay for them get them. Also, they are of less value, I think, than the quarterly full ratings report which, I might add, is also proprietary, but I manage to get leaked to me. Sometimes, Dave Hughes on www.dcrtv.com has the Arbitrends. Take a look there.

washington dc: Dear Frank, I write in defense of Harry Carray in last week's discussion of baseball announcers. As a little boy growing up in Iowa, I used to listen to Harry describe Cardinal baseball games as I fell asleep at night. He gave me three gifts: an understanding and love of baseball, a passion for the St Louis Cardinals which i have to this day, and an interest in radio. In fact I think it was Harry's painting word-pictures on the radio that led me to want a career in radio -much to your Gen X Gurl's chagrin-. I will admit, Frank, that Harry became something of a joke with the Cubs, especially in his later years, but trust me when I say that in his prime he was among the best ever. Chris Core WMAL

Frank Ahrens: Hiya, Chris, and thanks for writing in. Not having heard Harry in his young days, I will rely on your very nice homage. I only heard him in his later days, when WGN allowed him to be broadcast (inflicted?) on the rest of the nation via cable TV. I will say that George will writes that he grew up halfway betwee St. Louis and Chicago and could get both Cubs and Cardinals games on the radio. The reason he became a Cubs fans was because he hated the announcer the Cards had at the time--Harry Carry. I will have to dig out some old tapes of Harry's broadcasts and listen for myself...

Washington, DC: Re: the unending stream of Brooke Stevens questions. Does nobody read your chat on a regular basis? I do, as I'm sure many others do.

I'm glad your chat is attracting new listeners, but perhaps there should be a mechanism referring people to your archived columns for answers to questions that get asked repeatedly. I don't want to come across like a censor, but you've run the Brooke Stevens info about eight or nine times now.

That was a comment. Now for a couple of questions. I'll be driving around Northern Virginia tonight and would like your recommendation of which station will best keep me posted on Super Tuesday results. WTOP will frequently update, but will WAMU run a special broadcast about the results? I was hoping they might ditch the Diane Rehm - Kojo reruns for a night. I'll try C-SPAN, but they usually run speech snippets and rebroadcasts from "Washington Journal." I dig that sometimes, but not when I want up-to-the-minute news.

On another note, I hear religious broadcaster Salem purchased several stations, perhaps as part of the latest mega-merger. Any impact in the D.C. market? Salem tried to buy what is now C-SPAN but had to back off because of protests. I guess the latest buys aren't in the noncommercial bands?

This chat rocks. Rita's chat rolls. More power to the both of you!

Frank Ahrens: Fair point. From now on, all Stevens questioners--head to the archives! I just called WAMU and they tell me they will air live NPR coverage of Super Tuesday beginning tonite at 7:30 p.m. as part of "All Things Considered." The coverage will run till 11. I don't know about the Salem buy; I'll research it and thanks for the tip.

Mt. Rainier : I still have a problem with Mr. Simpson saying that white people are 'on safari' when talking about social issues here. That is what sounds racist. I think white are, and should be, vitally interested in events like the Diallo murder. He is doing some stereotyping of his own, and I would like to call him on that. -P.S., bet my knowledge of current African events is well up with his, even if I AM the 'wrong' color-

Frank Ahrens: Thanks for the trenchant posting, Mr. Ranier.

Northwest DC: It looks like a line was dropped from your column this morning going to the jump inside the Style Section.

Frank Ahrens: Shoot. I got an e-mail about that. Apparantly, in some editions, all of Donnie Simpson's quote did not appear. It is: "When you're on safari, you better listen to the natives or you will be eaten by the lions."

Laurie: Have you done anything about getting yourself remote access so that you can do these chats from anywhere and enjoy the fabu weather?

Frank Ahrens: Hi, Laurie. Actually, I have. The Post computer systems department came through like champs and gave me a laptop. And I can report that, if all goes well, I will be conducting the March 21 discussion from sunny Florida, where I am plannnig to head to take in a little spring training baseball. I might note, too, that it's entirely appropriate now that the Orioles train in Florida: the average team age is about the same as the average age of a state resident.

Upper Marlboro, MD: Hi Frank,
Thanks for answering my question re: 92.7 FM. My next question may be a hard one - does anyone plan to offer easy listening for us old-timers who love 40's and 50's music?
Bunny Faust

Frank Ahrens: That's a great question and a good one for me to end with.
Because the "money demo" is ages 25-54, much of commercial radio assumes that, once folks hit 55, they stop listening to the radio or callously write them of as audience members, simply becuase they may hvae only 1.2 new car purchases left in their lives versus a 35 year old, who will probably buy at least three more new cars. Take a look at the nostalgia format here in D.C.: It was on a strong FM signal, the old WGAY (99.5) but, a year ago, that was changed to Jamn Oldies, kicking it off the air, leaving only WGAY-AM (1260 AM, the old WWDC AM) as the nostalgia format. Its signal is weaker and doesn't travel as well. Also, it's AM. Also note that the Sunday Showtunes show has not re-emerged anywhere on the dial since Jamn' Oldies' debut. I would be upset if I were you, too. But I can't offer any promising hope. I guess the best answr is: CDs and the Internet, I'm sorry to say.

Thanks everyone for tuning in today; we had a lot of questions and I got to as many as I could, typing as fast as I could (maybe I should hire a typist...). See everyone next week.