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Phyllis Richman – Live
Hosted by Phyllis Richman
Washington Post Staff Writer

Thursday, February 24, 2000
Noon EST


By Craig Cola/
washingtonpost.com
Washington Post restaurant critic Phyllis C. Richman comes to Live Online at washingtonpost.com every Thursday at noon. In more than two decades of critiquing Washington restaurants – from the hautest temple of gastronomy to the most obscure off-the-beaten track discovery – Phyllis has become a household name for everyone in our area who loves to eat. Phyllis is on hand to answer your questions and field your comments about dining out in Washington. And you can read Phyllis's Sunday reviews on Friday – only on the Web.

Want to know what's new and notable on the restaurant scene? Turn to Phyllis. Got a bone to pick with the most recent review? Let Phyllis know.

Here is a transcript of today's discussion.

dingbat





Chevy Chase, MD: Phyllis:

I am sorry to hear about your retirement, but after a quarter century of being the most authoritative source on D.C. dining, I guess you have earned a rest. But I really hope you will continue the chats. I really look forward to them each week.

Now that you are passing the crown, I would appreciate knowing your parting thoughts on the D.C. dining scene since you started. What were the restaurants that you miss the most, and which ones would you like to see continue for a long time to come? Which trends do you welcome and which ones would you like to retire along with yourself?

Phyllis Richman: Greetings. Isn't this a wildly wonderful Thursday noon? I've even seen crocuses and shorts already. Time to talk about shad and asparagus, perhaps. (A challenge: Where can we find the best shad in town this season.)

Thanks, Chevy Chase on-liner for your kind words. I don't know how long I'll do these chats, but I'll let you all know (and by the way, I'll be in NY next week, so you all have a week off from chatting).

Reminiscences: I still miss the Big Cheese in Georgetown, and a short-run restaurant named T. Gregory. I'll always miss Jean-Louis at the Watergate and Pavillon of its early days. I'm still mourning Apana, and I newly miss Mr. Egan's - for the beer, the popcorn and the great waitresses.

More will come to mind. Chime in with your own reminiscences if you like.

As for trends, I hope we wrap up wraps before long, and icky sweet sauces for entrees. And trendiness.Add to this stream of thought too, if you like.


Baltimore, MD: Phyllis, so sad to hear of your planned retirement - I missed last week's lovefest, but read the transcript and I guess there is nothing your fans can do to convince you to stay! Have you tried Black's Bar and Kitchen in Bethesda yet? We went a few weeks ago and thought it was excellent -after waiting about 40 minutes even though we had a reservation-. The service was great, wine list had a good selection of moderate prices and the grilled scallops were some of the best ever! Just curious to see if you've been or will review it before you leave. Thanks.

Phyllis Richman: No, I'm ducking out before reviewing Black's. The Barnetts reviewed it about a year ago when I was on vacation. Are you suggesting that trying Black's might convince me to stay?


Washington DC: Hi Phyllis
About the New Giovanni Trattu', Everybody talking about.Its is very Good? Do you suggest?

Phyllis Richman: How timely: the review's coming up Sunday (or Sat. on this site).


Washington, DC: Phyllis:
Greetings! I have a question for you concerning sanitary issues in restaurants. My husband and I went to a sushi restaurant last weekend and were quite amazed -and disgusted, really- when 4 patrons sitting at the sushi bar lit up and started smoking cigarettes. We asked the waitress if this was allowed and she admitted it was. Am I crazy to think this is disgusting, as the two sushi chefs were slicing the raw fish not 3 feet from where these people were puffing? Thanks....

Phyllis Richman: This might be an aesthetic or health issue but it is not a sanitation issue. I don't know the intricacies of the law allowing smoking at bars - whether that includes sushi bars - but obviously you can make your own personal law that you won't eat at a sushi bar that allows smoking.


DC: What are your thoughts on giving 2nd chances to a place? I went to brunch at Twist, a new -I think- cafe-bar-hip place on M in G-town. The service was s-l-o-w & unprofessional, coffee was ridiculously overpriced, & the food was alright, not as good as the menu descriptions. Does the place deserve another shot?

Phyllis Richman: Your description sure wouldn't tempt me to spend my time and money on a second chance. Of course, your experience could have been atypical.


WDC: A friend was at McCormick & Schmick's on K St. and saw Shad and Roe on it's menu. Please tell, I remember that is has like just under 800 bones in it...what else can you tell me about it, I had it smoked one time, and was delicious...

Phyllis Richman: Shad does have a billion tiny bones, but restaurants always buy boned shad (which is one reason it is expensive).

It is not a fish for every taste. It's related to the h erring family, so it is a strong oily fish. It is local, and it has a very short season. If you like bluefish and m mackerel and such, you'll probably appreciate it. I love it.


WDC: Will your last review be whatever restaurant happens to be "next?" Or will you close by writing about a long-time favorite? Or... something else?

We'll miss you!

Phyllis Richman: I'm thinking a lot about that last column. Any ideas?


WDC: You will be terribly missed, but I hope you know that by now, and your desire for a change is certainly understandable.
Question for you. I have a special event that requires my taking a loved one to a special dinner on a Monday night. I've discovered that a lot of restaurants are closed Mondays -Cashion's, Obelisk-and in past chats and reviews I think it's been mentioned that a lot of chefs take the night off, even if the restaurant is open. Any suggestions for exceptions to that rule, preferably within the District?
Thanks very much.

Phyllis Richman: Monday is the slowest night for restaurants - a problem for diners because they aren't at their best. In-town restaurants are more likely to be open than suburban ones, but there is no list I can refer you to.

Thanks for your good wishes.


DC: I'd like to chime in on the trends and trendiness. As a primarily casual diner and sandwich lover I'm a natural enemy of the wrap craze. Suddenly places with perfectly good sandwiches are forcing the Southwestern Chicken Wrap onto their menu.

And trendiness, tends to put decent places out of business -I admit I will miss the 5 spice rolls at Straits of Malaya- for what? A larger Lauriol Plaza and another tapas place. Perhaps I'm being bitter. Trendiness does force one to find those out of the way places.

How much of an effect to we think reviews and reviewers have on the scene at at large?

Sorry to see you go. You've been an indispensable source of information.

Thanks

Phyllis Richman: And thanks to you.

Trendiness and chain-ness have a hand in forcing restaurants out.


Baltimore, MD: From the person who enjoyed Black's - I don't know if it would convince you to stay, but it would be worth a visit in your new undisguised dining life!! Though I still think you'll be recognized and given special treatment -as you should-.

Phyllis Richman: If there's one thing I'll be glad to be finished with, it's "special" treatment. The kitchen gets mighty slow when it knows there's a critic in the house.


Vienna, VA: Re: second chances, I guess it all depends on the amount of time and money you have for dining out. If you eat all of your meals out and can afford to do so, then you don't have much to lose in giving a promising new place a second chance.

I personally don't have many opportunities to dine out, so I have a pretty strict one-strike-you're-out policy for bad dining experiences at new restaurants. If I'm assured that it's a very rare aberration, maybe a second chance is in order. But me, I'd stay away from that place for a while, until they got really settled and earned a better reputation.

That's why I love your reviews, Phyllis, especially when you identify the strengths and weaknesses on the menu. Extremely helpful in creating a satisfying dining experience for those of us who don't have resources to go out often!!

Phyllis Richman: Glad to spend the Post's money on your behalf. When I'm spending my own money I'll probably be all the more critical (though I always try to see a restaurant as if the b ill's being paid from my pocket).


Alexandria, VA: Phyllis,

One just can't go out of town safely anymore. Tuning in today is the first I heard of your retirement. I'll miss both reviews and chats greatly. Also, A restaurant critic is a person one develops a relationship with over time. You learn to appreciate likes and dislikes, to figure out where you and the critic may have common tastes and where you're likely to differ. A new voice has to be learned all over again. It's exciting but also disconcerting.

And it took me till now to get used to William Grimes. I would have appreciated a period of stability in both my usual papers and cities.

Bitching aside, it was a wonderful ride to share. Many thanks.

Phyllis Richman: Thanks. Well, I came to the Post just after Mimi Sheraton went to the Times, so it's fitting that my successor follow Grimes by a similar time span.

Just look on this as an opportunity to hear a new voice on this subject that absorbs us all so much..


DC: For a last column:

How 'bout a semi-fictional-fable review of your dream restaurant in the DC area. Sort of a parting word to restaurateurs of what you'd like to see and to diners of what they should seek?

It would be easy to incorporate old favorites, new favorites and that great fiction writing style I keep hearing about.

Phyllis Richman: Hmmm. Chase Whitely, fictional reviewer, tackles the DC scene?


Washington, DC: Re: your last review
Have you ever dined at the White House? Perhaps you could secure an invitation to a state dinner, and review that!

Phyllis Richman: Hillary, are you tuned in? I haven't been allowed to taste the new (newish) chef's food because, I'm reminded, the WH is not a restaurant to be reviewed. So now it would be appropriate to invite me, eh?


Bethesda, MD: Perhaps you could discuss recent -3 years- memorable dishes at restaurants that are still open. I will frequent a restaurant for a favorite dish even if the rest of the menu is mediocre.

Phyllis Richman: Me, too, as long as I don't have to do much weeding out to find them.


New York, NY: I'll miss you, too. But before you go I'd like to get you comments on three trends, that annoy me. -I don't know if you can call them trends, as they have continued for quite a while, long after I would have expected a trend to die out-
1 - Tall food
2 - The use of droplets of sauce as plate decoration, as opposed to flavoring
3 - Captains running you to your seat, as opposed to a leisurely walk, or matching the pace of the patron.

Phyllis Richman: Except for the running, I'd say that those are ideas that are like jokes - the first few times they are delightful, but they grow old and unappealing with the repetition.


WDC: Working in Georgetown -and eating- I look for different places occasionally and I went to Twist before its "official" opening. Never considered it an eating experience, however it is a nice change of pace for lunch. I found the service at lunch time to be swift, friendly and attentive -but not overly so -- that "fine line"-. I would not go there for a "special" meal, but for an occasional lunch, it's just fine -they have the BEST tuna sandwich in GT-

Phyllis Richman: Maybe worth that second visit. I've heard the fries were good, too.


Jon in DC: I have made a list of restaurants that I have always wanted to go to and have been crossing them off as I go -Nora's, Galileo, 1789, Citronelle- but my favorite thus far is the traditional Tuscan mean that I found at I Ricci. Even though the waitress said the same thing, ver batem, to the couple next to us -which we found a bit humorous- it was a delight. My complaint is directed at Galileo: I have a 9:00 reservation, arrived early and was not seated until 9:30. They made it sound like it was my fault. I am giving them a second shot this weekend but the food and wine list are great.

Do you have a favorite restaurant and-or disappointment?

Phyllis Richman: I have well over 50 favorites. As for Galileo, that is a consistent problem with that potential y great restaurant.


Mt. Pleasant: Well I hope your last review will at least have your picture in it!
Does the Post have any idea who will take over for you? Will you have any input in this process? Personally, I would like to see an accomplished reviewer from a different city since they would bring a new perspective. Thanks for all the years.

Phyllis Richman: A picture? I've gotten so used to avoiding them.

The Post is conducting a search (a "global"search), and I am taking part in the process. They're sure to find somebody really excellent, and I th ink the results will be refreshing for readers.


Washington DC: Phyllis--

I was pleased to see your review of the Bluestone Cafe on Sunday, even if the restaurant didn't entirely please you. As a Capitol Hill resident longing for a good place to eat near by, it didn't discourage me from wanting to try it. They are now offering a $14.95 3-course meal until 6:45 pm. Given your general assessment of the place, does that sound like the way to go if one decides to go there, especially if one orders wisely?

Phyllis Richman: How could you go wrong with a $15 3-course meal in such a charming place?


Washington, DC: RE the White House review comment: I had just been wondering who the chefs were at the WH this morning as I read the article on yesterday's state dinner. Do you have any information on this?

Phyllis Richman: The chef is Walter Scheib, who came to the WH from the Greenbrier.


Jon in DC: Do you generally agree with the way Zagat's rates the restaurants in DC?

Phyllis Richman: Not generally or specifically, though I find the book useful for its addresses, lists and s uch data.


Silver Spring, MD: Phyllis, your review of L'Etoile was fairly positive, but our experience there Saturday night was unfortunate. Their menu was limited of necessity because it was after the Sabbath which restricted their cooking time. However, when I made the reservations and asked for a menu, they faxed me the entire menu! They were out of the pate, out of the one chicken dish on the limited menu, and the dessert tasted like a bad Passover cake. Also they didn't have the Moroccan soup you mentioned. We so wanted it to be a good experience, and we want to support kosher establishments in the area -something this area sorely lacks-, but no one in our party plans to return soon. I was so disappointed.

Phyllis Richman: L'etoile, are you listening?


Washington, D.C.: Phyllis:

I too miss Apana and Jean Louis. And also Le Lion D'Or, Le Pavillon, Jean Pierre, Dominique's, Vincenzo, Helen's, Germaine's, 209 1-2, Madurai, New Orleans Emporium, Shezan and countless others. I can't help but think that we have lost more restaurants in the last 15 years than we have gained. I think there are too many chain restaurants -even on the high end- and too many restaurants devoted to tourists which provide big portions at the expense of quality. Do you agree?

And best of luck to you!

Phyllis Richman: Excellent list. It makes me sad and hungry to read it.


McLean, VA: I'm meeting friends for dinner tonight at Bombay Curry Company at Alexandria. My experiences with Indian food have been few and mediocre, and I'm not sure what to try. Aside from "try the curry," could you please provide some guidance on how to proceed? I checked your review of the place and I can't really tell what to start with. Thanks.

Phyllis Richman: At an Indian restaurant you should make up a complete meal from an appetizer, a curry or tandoori dish (here I'd choose a curry, maybe share a meat and a vegetable curry or add a vegetable side dish ) and certainly include a bread and a raita (spiced yogurt) and probably a dal (lentils). At Bombay Curry the owner is very helpful re ordering.


Bethesda, MD: What is the latest on Morrison-Clark? Out of town friends went there recently and said it was mediocre.

Phyllis Richman: The chef, Susan Lindeborg, has left, and plans to open the Majestic Cafe in Alexandria, probably in Sept.


Arlington VA: Hi Phyllis -
Has "Gravy Train" gone paperback yet? you mentioned this last week, but ne'er a copy at the bookstores did I see.

Thanks

Phyllis Richman: Paperback's coming in June.


Washington DC: Just thought I'd recount a frustrating, but
ultimately delicious Sunday afternoon.
Three of us planned on meeting friends at Sushi-Ko for lunch. It was closed so we left
a note directing them to meet us at Harmony Cafe on M Street.

We get there to find that it's closed for lunch too! Probably because of the Georgetown manhole accident. We left a note on Harmony's door directing them to Amma Vegetarian Kitchen.

They found us, and an hour later, we were
ALL stuffed with fantastic Indian vegetarian food. Five of us ate for $38.00

Phyllis Richman: Good choice. It's a very basic, bare bones tiny second-floor restaurant on M St that has good - not wonderful - Indian food at rock bottom prices.


Bethesda, Md.: Re: Trends that should end--calling every version of an appetizer spread "tapas." I was in NYC this weekend and ate at a Greek restaurant that described itself as a "Greek tapas bar." There were Mediterranean mezzos long before the tapas trend hit! Love that Cafe Atlantico bucks the trendiness and calls its Sat. tapas special "Latin Dim Sum."

Phyllis Richman: Yep.


Arlington, VA: A little late but you are sooo right
I too miss the biggest of Cheese and I can't tell you how many beers and diplomat burgers I had at Egans. Now there was a great Washington institution!
As are you.

Phyllis Richman: Aww. . blush.


Bethesda: Phyllis--

Last week someone mentioned a new Chinese restaurant that was opened by the former owner of City Lights of China. What was the name and where is it located? Any reports on how it is, if it meets any of City Light's old heights?

Phyllis Richman: Maiwah just opened at New Hampshire & M, with much of the former staff of City Lights of China. It's already crowded, I'm told.


AC - VA: I just wanted to say that I have recently really enjoyed reading your columns. It gives me an opportunity to find out what's good in my neighborhood when I want to dine out and also helps when I am going out with friends and we want to try someplace we have never been. Your column has helped us on that quest and I would like to thank you. You will be missed.
Can you tell me which is your favorite Italian restaurant in Downtown DC?

Thanks. AC - VA

Phyllis Richman: Thanks.

Well, the new Etrusco just opened. I love Obelisk (though I've heard three negative reports lately), and when Galileo is on, it is really on. Then there's Pizzeria Paradiso. ..


Alex., VA: For McLean and the Indian food: BCC is a wonderful little place, and the owner is marvelous.

Try the vegetarian thali. It is a good sampling of four different veggies, rice, raita, and a big hunk o' bread. I usually order this and am FULL afterwards -Indian food not the lightest cuisine-.

Also, the onion kulcha -onion bread- is out of this world. As far as appetizers, the puffed rice appetizer -I forget the Indian name- is quite delicious.

Have fun, McLean.

Phyllis Richman: Very helpful.


Washington, DC: Phyllis,

My girlfriend is taking me to Olives for dinner this evening for my birthday, I have searched the Web for reviews but have found none. What experiences have you had there or what have you heard about the Restaurant? I know Todd English is a fine Chef, but is his talent and expertise evident here in DC?

-As an aside, congrats on retirement, hope you can still find time for an occasional on-line chat.-

Phyllis Richman: I have reviewed it - look on this site.


Vienna, VA: Just finished "Gravy Train" and while pleased that you will continue the "Chas Movable Feast" I will miss your columns and reviews. But to the question, The Post's front page on "Pesto-Change O" Are the Olives, M & S, Smith &, etc. that bad? Do two links make a chain?

Phyllis Richman: No, they're not bad. In some ways Olives is terrific, but it needs some weeding out. The others have some good dishes but you have to dig for them even more so.


Glover Park: Re Reminiscing: Like you I still miss the Big Cheese -esp. that deep fried camembert cheese entree-, but also Jour et Nuit in Gtown -a great endive and watercress salad-, Hammel's on 10th Street, and the Two Caesars -in the basement on 13th-14th?-.

Question: Do you think more Fed. Triangle restaurants will start staying open later during the week? After theater last night -10 p.m.- only Jaleo was still serving. Not that we really minded since it's always a great restaurant experience.

Phyllis Richman: Good list.

I don't think DC is about to become a late-night town.


Alexandria, VA: Phyllis:

If the "global search" for a new critic results in an out-of-towner being picked, I hope you stay on to do the chats. One of the best advantages you bring to these chats is your long familiarity with D.C. dining and your encyclopedic knowledge of where to go for what cuisine. Even a very talented critic from New York or Los Angeles couldn't replace the wealth of knowledge between your ears. So please consider that.

And at the very least, the chats should continue. I know for a fact that many restaurant owners read them, as it keeps them informed about complaints and trends from the public's perspective. So no matter what, I hope this chatroom will be a permanent fixture.

Phyllis Richman: I expect somebody will do restaurant chats. The new critic certainly should. The problem with my continuing is that I don't intend to stay all that current. I'm looking forward to returning m ore often to old favorites.


Washington, D.C.: Hi Phyllis:

What on earth was the "Big Cheese"? A fondue restaurant? A kosher dairy restaurant? I have lived in Georgetown for nearly 20 years and I have never heard it mentioned once by any of my neighbors or co-workers. Why do you miss it so much?

Phyllis Richman: It was the first of DC's creative new American restaurants (and one of ver y few woman-owned restaurants). Cheese was a theme but there was much more. And it introduced to DC diners such talents as Ann Amernick and more (maybe Mary Richter? could be wrong). Its owner was Barbara Witt, who now writes ver y good cookbooks.


alexandria-by-way-of-Norfolk, VA: The best Shad is to be found at the 'Shad Planking', a political love-fest held annually in southeastern VA.
It's also funny to note that there's nothing more hysterical than watching grown men- and women- trying to look political while sifting shad through their fingers from a paper plate... something to put on your calendar for retirement!!

Phyllis Richman: Where? I'm there.


Cincinnati, OH: Phyllis,

I am terribly upset - everything about my adopted "hometown" of Washington is changing - including no longer being able to read your delightful reviews every Sunday -or now on the web on Friday, as I am consigned to the hinterlands, and can't get a decent newspaper-. But, I wish you well in your well-deserved post-Post life.

Anyway, I wanted to add to the list of missed restaurants - Le Caprice. It lost its lease, and never reopened. Such a shame, particularly since it was my husband's favorite special event restaurant.

Good luck to you, and ciao!



Phyllis Richman: Oh, yes, Le Caprice. I still have hopes for its return in some form.


Arlington, Virginia: I have a silly question and I'd be so grateful if you could answer it. Is it inappropriate, when dining at an Italian restaurant, to have a half order of pasta and then an entree? I always feel as though I'm ordering two entrees.

Thanks, and we'll miss you!

Phyllis Richman: It is appropriate and a very good idea to start with a half portion of pasta and then go on to an entree.


Waldork, Md.: As you've been watching -and Eating- DC for a long time, perhaps you can answer a question regarding "Diner's Etiquette:"
How does one politely and inoffensively, refuse an order that has been delivered by a visibly -and audibly- sick waiter, or an order that has been soiled by a waiter's long mustache?

Phyllis Richman: I'd probably gag, but I don't think that's the answer you're looking for.


McLean, VA: Will miss your tasteful insights terribly!!!

Where can we get a great Caesar salad made tableside these days?

Phyllis Richman: I keep looking, but I'm afraid they're extinct.


Falls Church, VA: Re:Shad
Phyllis: I thought I remembered someone mentioning last week that Pesce sells fish to take home. Will they sell shad? Or is it better to get shad in a restaurant?
I am dying to try it as I LOVE bluefish and herrings....

Phyllis Richman: You can get shad to take home (or will be able to soon) from Safeway, Giant, Cannon's, other fish stores and probably Fresh Fields. Just broil it and enjoy. Watch f or the bones unless you're buying it boneless. It goes well with anchovy, if you like.


Rockville, MD: Phyllis, After a review is published, will you speak to the restaurant owner-chef--not to argue the merit of your views, but to provide clarification of comments or more detailed constructive criticism?

Phyllis Richman: I always talk to any chefs that call. That's one of the fascinating parts of the job.


Tysons Corner, VA: Have you had a chance to test out the new restaurant in Bethesda named Chipolte yet?

I asked you about the restaurant a while ago when it first opened and you said you hadn't had a chance to try it out yet.

Just curious.
Thanks!!!

Phyllis Richman: It's run by McDonald's. 'nuff said?


Washington DC: For your last column, how about a review of what's good about the Washington dining scene, what's missing, and your prediction for the future.

Phyllis Richman: Don't I do that here every week?

Seriously, that's worth thinking about. Thanks.

Time to go frolic in the sun. Remember, no chat line next week. See you back here in two weeks. Thanks for all your kind words about my retirement.


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